Programming thread

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There is still shortage of actually decent programmers.
Job seeking situation is dire because of massive over hiring during pandemics. So you compete with a lot of people who were laid off recently.
The biggest impact AI will have on industry in nearest feature is amount of unmaintainable slop that it will produce,

IMHO, because of shortsightedness of leadership in tech, there will be massive vacuum for programmers again in few years. Juniors who use AI don't learn shit. The ones that want to learn often don't get hired or don't keep jobs because juniors who abuse AI look better on paper. So we are losing junior -> regular progression.
I see it all the time, that people who push for AI are rewarded and loved by management, even though they often lack actual skill.

So unless AI starts to deliver on its promise of natural language programming, which I don't believe it will, we gonna end up in a very very weird place.
 
ADHD Mate said:
There is still shortage of actually decent programmers.
Job seeking situation is dire because of massive over hiring during pandemics. So you compete with a lot of people who were laid off recently.
The biggest impact AI will have on industry in nearest feature is amount of unmaintainable slop that it will produce,
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That's the reason why I am interested at all in the "42" school system. At least that could give me a foot in the door.

I fucking hate my life.
 
ADHD Mate said:
There is still shortage of actually decent programmers.
Job seeking situation is dire because of massive over hiring during pandemics. So you compete with a lot of people who were laid off recently.
The biggest impact AI will have on industry in nearest feature is amount of unmaintainable slop that it will produce,

IMHO, because of shortsightedness of leadership in tech, there will be massive vacuum for programmers again in few years. Juniors who use AI don't learn shit. The ones that want to learn often don't get hired or don't keep jobs because juniors who abuse AI look better on paper. So we are losing junior -> regular progression.
I see it all the time, that people who push for AI are rewarded and loved by management, even though they often lack actual skill.

So unless AI starts to deliver on its promise of natural language programming, which I don't believe it will, we gonna end up in a very very weird place.
Click to expand...
I am trying to be optimistic about this as well. There is so much demoralization and doomerism going on everywhere that it is difficult to keep one's head above water, especially in places brimming with jeets & shills. Research jobs also have this issue of sloppification due to both academic and corporate researchers using it more and more while checking sources & information less and less. I'm curious, what tech domain do you think is most or least affected by the current state of affairs? SWE? Cybersecurity? DevOps? Systems administration?
 
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Ferryman said:
I am trying to be optimistic about this as well. There is so much demoralization and doomerism going on everywhere that it is difficult to keep one's head above water, especially places brimming with jeets & shills. Research jobs also have this issue of sloppification due to both academic and corporate using it more and more while checking sources & information less and less. I'm curious, what tech domain do you think is most or least affected by the current state of affairs? SWE? Cybersecurity? DevOps? Systems administration?
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Hard to tell. I think embedded/systems programming is probably the least affected as it's the most sensitive to code correctness.
Cybersecurity might get boost from all that new unsafe code needing proper audits.
Other than that I think it's more of a gamble based on team/management.
 
Anyone have any experience with slint + rust? map libre would be a bonus. haven't worked with slint or map libre or vector tile mapping before but im doing as project mapping stuff. I got geojson correlating in the backend in a neo4j db, so I don't know how hard now it will be to build another map. WebGL with lumagl wasnt bad outside of having to use react and typescript.
 
ADHD Mate said:
Hard to tell. I think embedded/systems programming is probably the least affected as it's the most sensitive to code correctness.
Cybersecurity might get boost from all that new unsafe code needing proper audits.
Other than that I think it's more of a gamble based on team/management.
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There is decent work where 10% of the work is actually writing the damn code and 90% is making sure it works 100-(1E-12)% of the time.

If AI replaces coding there, you still have to have humans (specifically ones who both understand the code and you can put in jail) review and test the code at multiple levels.

Think of fields where failures are completely unacceptable, you might have a good time there if you don't mind your projects literally worshipping the process.
The trouble is, you're not going to be working in your fun languages like Python, Perl, Ruby, C#. You're going to have to learn C and COBOL.
 
ADHD Mate said:
IMHO, because of shortsightedness of leadership in tech, there will be massive vacuum for programmers again in few years. Juniors who use AI don't learn shit. The ones that want to learn often don't get hired or don't keep jobs because juniors who abuse AI look better on paper. So we are losing junior -> regular progression.
Click to expand...
What's funnier still is those currently employed who fully slurp up the AI is amazing hype are frying their brains on it. We had an "outage" of Codex recently (forgotten bill or account limits reached) and a colleague literally complained that they'd be working 100x slower because of it. Scary stuff when it made basically no difference to; I had to write some unit tests by hand.

I always have my ear to the ground around jobs and interview every so often and honestly the market is weird where I am right now. It might be a skill issue on my part though. Companies seem to want people who are utterly incredible and know all the minutiae of their exact problems or specific job listing with no thoughts or wiggle room on hiring people able to adapt and learn for the role. As I said that might be a skill issue on my part or just a complete difference in hiring philosophy.
 
Meth Reindeer said:
I always have my ear to the ground around jobs and interview every so often and honestly the market is weird where I am right now. It might be a skill issue on my part though. Companies seem to want people who are utterly incredible and know all the minutiae of their exact problems or specific job listing with no thoughts or wiggle room on hiring people able to adapt and learn for the role. As I said that might be a skill issue on my part or just a complete difference in hiring philosophy.
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Yeah there is definitely that too. There is almost no on-boarding process anywhere right now. I work through consulting firm so they do all the bullshiting on my behalf.

Also if not for colleagues that are part of my consulting firm that used to work for the company we are rented to it would be hell to do anything. Documentation is non-existing. There is a lot of jeetification where you are expected to nanny jeets who are your seniors in project, but have zero knowledge. There are a lot of pandemic hires who have only basic understanding of programming.
Many of them seem deeply insecure about their positions and job security.

So yeah, it's a mess.
 
Jotch said:
Think of fields where failures are completely unacceptable
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I’m finding that many people in the tech industry / software don’t work in these fields, and therefore don’t believe that these jobs exist. They have zero theory of mind about anything outside of modern SaaS business.

“Programming has always been and will always be a place where a bug can just be solved by an over the air patch!” is their mentality.
 
Meth Reindeer said:
I always have my ear to the ground around jobs and interview every so often and honestly the market is weird where I am right now. It might be a skill issue on my part though. Companies seem to want people who are utterly incredible and know all the minutiae of their exact problems or specific job listing with no thoughts or wiggle room on hiring people able to adapt and learn for the role. As I said that might be a skill issue on my part or just a complete difference in hiring philosophy.
Click to expand...
Too many places want someone who is a true expert in languages specific to how they use them on top of all the tools they use. The people who are posting these job listings have no clue what their company even wants and are rarely technical people themselves, it's usually an administrative job. I've gotten emails with job postings obviously ran through AI that make no sense or would be such a rare mix of skills that they're all but guaranteeing they won't find the right person since the pay is insultingly low for their expectations.

I blame this on HR being trained on setting the bar comically high hoping that they can get lucky and get a highly skilled person for cheap but they end up instantly turning down people who are suitable and the team in need never even hears about these applicants.
 
Aidan said:
Too many places want someone who is a true expert in languages specific to how they use them on top of all the tools they use. The people who are posting these job listings have no clue what their company even wants and are rarely technical people themselves, it's usually an administrative job. I've gotten emails with job postings obviously ran through AI that make no sense or would be such a rare mix of skills that they're all but guaranteeing they won't find the right person since the pay is insultingly low for their expectations.

I blame this on HR being trained on setting the bar comically high hoping that they can get lucky and get a highly skilled person for cheap but they end up instantly turning down people who are suitable and the team in need never even hears about these applicants.
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The lower you go in the "level" of the job (i.e. junior, medior, senior), the worse it gets. You've heard of the good old "junior with 5 years experience", but have you heard of the junior role that requires proficiency in Python, React, Rust, Bash, Powershell and experience in AWS, Azure, GCP, Terraform, Ansible, Prometheus, Grafana, ELK, Docker, Kubernetes and Nix? Oh, and 3 years of experience goes without saying. Its just felt after felt bro, the entire job seeking experience is one big humiliation ritual, especially if you get into an initial interview, have to suffer some HR whore yapping your ear off for 45 minutes about the history of the workplace, only to then get ghosted or rejected a week later. I pray that Hitler hits each HR nigger's house with an asteroid.
 
Aidan said:
I blame this on HR being trained on setting the bar comically high hoping that they can get lucky and get a highly skilled person for cheap but they end up instantly turning down people who are suitable and the team in need never even hears about these applicants.
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I think it's clear at this point that the bar is set comically high to disqualify all American applicants and then, since there are no qualified applicants, they can get an H-1B visa and bring over Pajeet, who is willing to work for pennies on the dollar and simply fakes all his qualifications.
 
Aidan said:
Too many places want someone who is a true expert in languages specific to how they use them on top of all the tools they use. The people who are posting these job listings have no clue what their company even wants and are rarely technical people themselves, it's usually an administrative job. I've gotten emails with job postings obviously ran through AI that make no sense or would be such a rare mix of skills that they're all but guaranteeing they won't find the right person since the pay is insultingly low for their expectations.
Click to expand...
I had a job spec come through a couple of years ago, and they wanted an entire IT department. I sent it to some other contractors I am friendly with, and they agreed.
Aidan said:
I blame this on HR being trained on setting the bar comically high hoping that they can get lucky and get a highly skilled person for cheap but they end up instantly turning down people who are suitable and the team in need never even hears about these applicants.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I have the exact tech stack experience that they want, and I don't even get a reply. You can't get hold of anyone on the phone. The whole process seems to have got far worse.
 
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