Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

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SwanDive said:
Except competitive pokemon has always been about the strategy involved in battle, not ones ability to waste dozens of hours breeding for a competitively viable mon. Functionally, there is absolutely 0 difference in battle between a mon generated through cheating (so long as it is something that can still exist in game) and one that is bred using in game mechanics. If you lost to such a team, you would have lost regardless of whether or not the mons were genned as your opponent was simply able to out strategize you.

This sort of attitude that you need to breed all of your pokemon in game to be a legitimate player is nothing more than gate keeping in my eyes. People would much rather be spending time learning and testing strategies than spending mindless hours grinding just to get a single mon for a single build. It would be like if chess required you to fulfill some overly long, mindless task just so you can have access to a single bishop piece.

If Pokemon Home included a Showdown like mode, where you could generate pokemon (albeit, not transfer them to other games) and test them out in battle against other players, and they started using this for VGC, it would unironically be the best thing to happen to the series.
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That's my philosophy with the whole thing. As someone who's both painstakingly raised mons from the ground up and hacked, I can see the merits of each side.

Doing it the "legal" way gives a nice sense of satisfaction from your hard work, giving a more personal connection to your teams and such. It's easier to get attached to mons that you've spent a lot of time training up than just bliping into existence from hacking, but that's just my experience.

But the reality is most people don't have the countless hundreds of hours required to do it 100% legally (aka not even using 6IV Dittos for breeding, which most people, even anti-hackers, use) and sometimes the RNG is just bullshit period with how long things can take. I resorted to hacking when I got fed up with hatching shinies and missing out on hidden abilities for example.

EDIT: Fixed a link to one of my previous posts that was slapped on for some reason.
 
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Stumbled across this video earlier showing a side-by-side comparison of Pokemon S&S and Yo-kai Watch 4.

It's amazing the level of attention and hard-work Level-5 has put into YW4.

Also let's not forget Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth: Complete Edition, which is coming to Switch later this year.
 
Sundae said:
Stumbled across this video earlier showing a side-by-side comparison of Pokemon S&S and Yo-kai Watch 4.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4OYAhKi50XQ
It's amazing the level of attention and hard-work Level-5 has put into YW4.

Also let's not forget Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth: Complete Edition, which is coming to Switch later this year.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=9J8rTAAPn8c
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I love how the Digimon clip into each other.
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Almost seems like what Kyubimon is doing is the stuff that Digifags and countless Furries dream of.

And yes, there's clipping in the clip above, just look at the 0:22 mark, and you'll see the same fox phasing through the player.

I like Cyber Sleuth, although, having said that, people are giving it a bit too much credit for it, because they seem to forget that it was created for the Vita, and essentially got ported to the PS4
 
OddEyes said:
I love how the Digimon clip into each other.View attachment 853117

Almost seems like what Kyubimon is doing is the stuff that Digifags and countless Furries dream of.

And yes, there's clipping in the clip above, just look at the 0:22 mark, and you'll see the same fox phasing through the player.

I like Cyber Sleuth, although, having said that, people are giving it a bit too much credit for it, because they seem to forget that it was created for the Vita, and essentially got ported to the PS4
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Why would they even bother comparing the two? They're both developed on different systems.
 
SwanDive said:
Except competitive pokemon has always been about the strategy involved in battle, not ones ability to waste dozens of hours breeding for a competitively viable mon.
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I see your points, but I just don't understand the point of them putting in a breeding system if everyone was just going to cheat anyway. They might as well have just done the showdown system from the get-go instead of implementing a breeding system that no one wants to use or just have an official at the tournaments who could just genn all your pokemon there on the spot.

The showdown system is the best possible thing they could do for this though, you're right about that for sure.
 
Dopey Cunt said:
I see your points, but I just don't understand the point of them putting in a breeding system if everyone was just going to cheat anyway. They might as well have just done the showdown system from the get-go instead of implementing a breeding system that no one wants to use or just have an official at the tournaments who could just genn all your pokemon there on the spot.

The showdown system is the best possible thing they could do for this though, you're right about that for sure.
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The problem is they've taken way too long to ease the breeding process, every gen added only a tiny QOL feature. Even as things stand now there's still a host of grievances. Hyper Training for example was a fantastic addition for things like legendaries and hidden power types where it was impossible to get a perfect IV spread before, but they still botched it anyway because you have to go to lv. 100 to even use the feature at all, and wouldn't you know it Alola is awful for level grinding with USUM only alleviating the issue slightly. That and it would've been nice to manually alter IVs as you so choose instead of just a flat all or nothing fix to 31 (say 0 Speed IVs for Trick Room sets).

And the aforementioned hidden power system needs to be done away with entirely. Make it a tutor move where you can pick what HP type you want in exchange for a specific item (and make HP Fairy a thing while you're at it). Breeding is already enough of a hassle, there doesn't need yet another variable that's even MORE of a randomness factor on top of everything else involved.
 
SwanDive said:
It would be like if chess required you to fulfill some overly long, mindless task just so you can have access to a single bishop piece
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Let’s say before learning to play chess itself you had to grow the tree for the wood and then learn how to carve and whittle that wood into your bishop piece, BUT that bishop has to be the exact, chess tourney approved measurements and the wood has to be mahogany.

From a schoolkid to a working adult, who the FUCK has the time to sink into that? I really wanted to get into battling when I was much younger but due to lack of people and wifi it would be impossible for me to get good stock or the information to know what I was doing. Plus I think every game pre-Gen 5 had no way of directly viewing EVs or IVs. Imagine being 10 and trying to figure that shit out just because you want your mons to stop performing like garbage? Even in single player my party felt like they were underperforming against the NPCs, battling was a stale game of tanking hits, using healing items and remembering basic type match ups. It’s just not fun. Fuck that, I will never feel guilty for playing on a simulator.
 
I love how so many complains about the gimmicks of this generation are.

Yet everyone was fine with Mega Evolution? It was the biggest waste of a concept ever. Couldn't even be permanent. And it incorrectly used the term "Mega" and calling the items to trigger it "Pokémon-Ite" was something that sounds like a five year old made.
 
TrippinKahlua said:
I love how so many complains about the gimmicks of this generation are.

Yet everyone was fine with Mega Evolution? It was the biggest waste of a concept ever. Couldn't even be permanent. And it incorrectly used the term "Mega" and calling the items to trigger it "Pokémon-Ite" was something that sounds like a five year old made.
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It's far more than just the gimmick on its own. It's more that Dynamaxing/Gigantamaxing is the outright replacement for both megas and Z-moves, screwing over several mons in the process (Mawile and Beedrill will never see the competitive light of day again for example). That and if predictions are correct, it played a direct hand in the Dexit fiasco since it's more than likely they had to create an entire extra set of models for each mon since everything can Dynamax.
 
UntimelyDhelmise said:
It's far more than just the gimmick on its own. It's more that Dynamaxing/Gigantamaxing is the outright replacement for both megas and Z-moves, screwing over several mons in the process (Mawile and Beedrill will never see the competitive light of day again for example). That and if predictions are correct, it played a direct hand in the Dexit fiasco since it's more than likely they had to create an entire extra set of models for each mon since everything can Dynamax.
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the models are literally just upscaled for dynamaxing. the only addition to the models are clouds (which are the same for every pokémon)
 
TrippinKahlua said:
I love how so many complains about the gimmicks of this generation are.

Yet everyone was fine with Mega Evolution? It was the biggest waste of a concept ever. Couldn't even be permanent. And it incorrectly used the term "Mega" and calling the items to trigger it "Pokémon-Ite" was something that sounds like a five year old made.
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People complained a shit ton about Mega's when they first came around but like any new mechanic, it just needed time for people to accept and adjust to it's existence. It was a unique mechanic (to Pokemon not gaming as a whole before someone yells Digimon) with unique models and changed the dynamic of battles quite a lot more than anything previously ever has. Now, like you said, it's potential is wasted and the designs people liked are being buried for plain, upsized models instead of just trying to fix the flaws Mega's had.
 
BroccoliBrain said:
Even in single player my party felt like they were underperforming against the NPCs
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What game was this? Platinum? The IVs mean fuck all in single-player, unless you're against Cynthia or you're really pushing it.

UntimelyDhelmise said:
The problem is they've taken way too long to ease the breeding process, every gen added only a tiny QOL feature. Even as things stand now there's still a host of grievances. Hyper Training for example was a fantastic addition for things like legendaries and hidden power types where it was impossible to get a perfect IV spread before, but they still botched it anyway because you have to go to lv. 100 to even use the feature at all, and wouldn't you know it Alola is awful for level grinding with USUM only alleviating the issue slightly. That and it would've been nice to manually alter IVs as you so choose instead of just a flat all or nothing fix to 31 (say 0 Speed IVs for Trick Room sets).

And the aforementioned hidden power system needs to be done away with entirely. Make it a tutor move where you can pick what HP type you want in exchange for a specific item (and make HP Fairy a thing while you're at it). Breeding is already enough of a hassle, there doesn't need yet another variable that's even MORE of a randomness factor on top of everything else involved.
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The games weren't made for competitive battling. They added it into the original games as an afterthought, and most people who buy the games don't seriously battle other people anyway. The variance between otherwise-identical Pokemon that you despise as a Smogonite is there to make the Pokemon feel unique, so that people can feel a bit more attached to them. All of their more recent concessions to the competitive players have been due to the comp players whining about the hackers (which is why you can't use imports in Gen 6) or about the RNG (which was completely busted in Gen 5, in response to people whining that it was too random in Gen 4), but Game Freak isn't going to bend over backwards for them to make the game shallower. At most, they'll use the competitive community as an excuse to trim down the amount of Pokemon that they have to bother with-- oh wait, they did do that.
 
Foxxo said:
At most, they'll use the competitive community as an excuse to trim down the amount of Pokemon that they have to bother with-- oh wait, they did do that.
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Fucking what? Of all the reasons for Dexit, you honestly think they did it out of pettiness against the competitive scene that is officially sanctioned in VGC? Hell, one of the (conflicting) messages of the series is to be the very best like no one ever was, how do you expect a competitive scene NOT to rise out of something like that? And besides even that this isn't Sakurai where they actively hated the competitive community, there have been official tournaments since third gen for crying out loud.
 
UntimelyDhelmise said:
And besides even that this isn't Sakurai where they actively hated the competitive community
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Excuse me? When was it stated that him and the development team actively hated the competitive community? If that's the case, then Smash ultimate wouldn't have been the way it is now. Hell, they wouldn't have organized that tournament for ultimate when it was in it's early stages.
 
Foxxo said:
What game was this? Platinum? The IVs mean fuck all in single-player, unless you're against Cynthia or you're really pushing it.
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Nah, Diamond. It's not that the game was hard, it was more that some of the later game felt like a battle of the damage sponges. It might have been the way I was playing though (being, well, a kid), none of my team had stat altering moves, it was just slinging neutral or super effective moves back and forth and that was boring. The most stragetizing I've done in a Pokemon game is deciding who to switch out and who makes the team for the next gym leader :/ Tbh why bother setting up some competitive strategy though, when you're against an NPC where the mindgames don't matter?

They should really get their shit together over whether or not EVs and IVs are supposed to hidden or an exposed mechanic that every player is introduced to, because the way they're flopping around it now means you either don't know about it, or you do and have to pick between not caring and going through the aforementioned fuckery. I wasn't bothered by Cynthia though since I only found out months later by reading it online and I suppose it was more 'hidden' back then. Speaking of which? I think Hidden Power is kind of screwed over by the way it's calulated, they can't add a new type without messing with the formula which probably has a handle on like 4 other bullshit things.

My other thoughts on Pokemon: are they REALLY going for a new game/generation per year? That sounds insanely unsustainable. Pokemon is already formulaic and repetitive, I looked forward to each generation because of improvements but since they keep dropping features and adding new ones that have nothing to do with improving the game I don't know what they're aiming for because it sure as hell isn't the "all regions and all mons in 1 game" thing.
 
Nauseated Courgi said:
Excuse me? When was it stated that him and the development team actively hated the competitive community? If that's the case, then Smash ultimate wouldn't have been the way it is now. Hell, they wouldn't have organized that tournament for ultimate when it was in it's early stages.
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Apologies, didn't word that correctly and exaggerated.

Nowadays that isn't not the case, but in the past Sakurai wasn't too keen on the idea of Smash as a competitive game and saw it more as a party game, that's why Brawl had things like random tripping and such, and potentially why it took so long for the competitive scene to be officially acknowledged as a whole. It wasn't until Smash 4 where Nintendo started to officially host tournaments.

But anyway we're getting off topic here.
 
Apologies for the double post, but I just wanted to mention this as well.
We'll be getting another update for the game tomorrow.

Edit: also this here
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