Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

[left arm]

I mean, you're ignoring the other factors in the Gen 5 games - Not only streamlining the use of things like TMs being reusable, but as well as adding different kinds of battling, like Triple and Rotation battling, and even then, there was a lot to do in the main storylines of those games as well the post game content.

Completely forgot about TM's being reusable, but Triple/Rotation battles were never interesting to me, and there are only one or two places in the story mode they actually came into play if memory serves me well. They were just kind of there, but that definitely has it's niche.

What are some of the competitive changes that you find to be stupid? The only change that found to be odd was that they made darkrai's signature move "dark void" be 50% accurate. Granted with Dark void I understand that they were trying to balance it, seeing as it was a sleep inducing status move that was 100% accurate, but was giving it the same accuracy as hypnosis really nessacry? Why not have it's accuracy be in the 70-80 percent range?

That is one, but small corrections that makes it even dumber: It actually had 80% accuracy before Gen 7. Spore is the only 100% accuracy sleep inducing move (Which has the con of not working on grass types.) Mega Diance was the most notable hard counter to Darkrai for having Magic bounce and being fairy. So the solution was right there but Game Freak decided the problem was Dark void, and now it has the lowest accuracy of every sleep inducing move.

Anyways, things that I found really dumb:

• Gale wings nerf.
• Prankster nerf.
• Paralysis buff. (The thunder wave nerf was fine though, and I'm saying that as someone who used ye olde Serene Grace strategy.)
• Swagger nerf.
• I think abilities for mega evolutions don't instantly work on the turn they evolve unlike in Gen 6, but don't quote me on this.
• More something I found weird, but Mega Alakazam received a special defense buff.

I'm more annoyed over nerfs to what individual Pokemon have like Gale wings and Dark void, while Deoxys 2.0 (ultra beasts) and Necrozma light mode apparently aren't a problem. Just feels like competitive battling is shifting from "Figure out some weird bullshit that works" to "just use whatever's strong lol".

 

[Thiletonomics]

That is one, but small corrections that makes it even dumber: It actually had 80% accuracy before Gen 7. Spore is the only 100% accuracy sleep inducing move (Which has the con of not working on grass types.) Mega Diance was the most notable hard counter to Darkrai for having Magic bounce and being fairy. So the solution was right there but Game Freak decided the problem was Dark void, and now it has the lowest accuracy of every sleep inducing move.

I think abilities for mega evolutions don't instantly work on the turn they evolve unlike in Gen 6, but don't quote me on this.

Does Game Freak even make balance changes aimed to please Smogon out of all places? Mythicals like Darkrai can't even be used in VGC events, and just nerfing Dark Void to make sure other Pokémon can't use it, i.e. the Dark Void Smeargles that were the plague of VGC 2016, would have sufficed. Or they could just ban the move like how they did in the Gen 5 VGC years.

As for the Mega Evolution deal, I believe it was that the Mega Evolved form's speed doesn't take place on the turn that it Mega Evolves in Gen 6, which was changed in Gen 7 so the Mega Evolved form's speed does takes effect, i.e. Mega Beedrill as a major example.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

Anyways, things that I found really dumb:

• Swagger nerf.

Wait, how did they nerf swagger? Was it the move itself or did they nerf the confusion debuff?

 

[Thiletonomics]

Wait, how did they nerf swagger? Was it the move itself or did they nerf the confusion debuff?

Swagger's Accuracy was reduced from 90% to 85% in the Gen 7 games.

 

[Tanner Glass]

All I would like from the "next gen" of pokemon games is a lot less of the "hidden math" and "secret numbers" that the games currently have and an elimination of a lot of the tedious nonsense that makes competitive parts of the game way less fun.

Even if it's a post game thing or an option thing, let me see a pokemon's hidden values (Current EVs [if those are still a thing] and IVs) instead of making me keep track on a scratch pad or using a fucking external stat calculator on a website. And I mean let me see some raw fucking numbers instead of an NPC giving me vagaries ("I think the HP is OK").

Make breeding a much more streamlined process, in terms of how long it takes and how frequently you have to do it. I don't think anyone enjoys riding around on a bike with 5 eggs for like 10 minutes, only to get 5 more another 5 times so you can hatch 30 eggs and then start putting that shit into a calculator to see if any are "good". Cut down on the random factors (hidden IVs + natures [if those also are stil la thing] being random) even if there's some nonsense attached to it.

 

[Dopey Cunt]

So the only reason to pick them up anymore is competitive battling, but even then, I feel the competitive scene became garbage in Gen 7 due to a lot of changes I find pretty stupid.

I used to be into the competitive scene but my love for it withered and died when I discovered the amount of rampant cheating that goes on in VGC, both for the mainstay games and for the card tournaments. My autism wouldn't let me find any enjoyment in a community that promoted cheating and had tons of collusion behind the scenes because it had completely lost it's integrity. Crap like "You can cheat as long as you don't get caught" completely ruined it for me. I remember getting into debates with others about whether it matters if someone cheated or not or about how justified they were in using hacked or genned pokemon because they just "didn't have the time" to breed or reset a bunch of times to get a perfect IV Kyogre or some shit and it devalued all the people and all of the time they spent breeding pokemon legitimately and soft resetting for shiny legendaries and whatnot.
I used to be a breeder back when X and Y just came out and I'd breed pokemon with perfect IVs for folks who would trade my shinies or other pokemon in return. I also bred shiny pokemon that I would give away for free. Breeding was actually kind of fun for me despite how tedious it was but I was proud of my breeding skills and I was proud that the pokemon I worked hard to breed where being used competitively. All of that went out the window when my bred pokemon would face off against perfect IV genned legendaries. Slowly but surely, they bullied out honest breeders and players who wanted to win through their own merits instead of genning everything with perfect stats a day or two before an event and they actually had the nerve to laugh at those of us who wanted to keep cheating out of it. Cheating is still cheating no matter the reason. if you can't win through your own skills and merits, what's the fucking point of entering a contest if you're just going to lie and cheat your way through everything? It may also be my contempt for liars and dishonest people in general, but it just urked me so much that a community I once loved became so corrupted with cheating and collusion and toxic hate and twisted it into this inner circle clique bullshit that a lot of assholes on the internet like doing. I could go on but no one wants to sit here and listen to me sperg about how much I hate VGC now.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

I just can’t keep up with all these weird balancing changes every subsequent generation, so I don’t see myself enjoying playing Pokemon even on Showdown. I guess this is really the point where I’m going to look for decent fan games for my Pokemon fix. Things are creeping towards Digimon levels of convoluted.

 

[OddEyes]

"You can cheat as long as you don't get caught"

Everyone wants to be the D'Arby of Pokemon apparently.

 

[CausticMinory]

I just thought about something though. So this game has special raid battles against dynamaxed Pokemon.
Will the legendaries be a raid battle as well? Will GF release special Pokemon raid battles after release to keep attention going?

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

E

I just thought about something though. So this game has special raid battles against dynamaxed Pokemon.
Will the legendaries be a raid battle as well? Will GF release special Pokemon raid battles after release to keep attention going?

"That's right boys and girls! Dynamax Mewtwo so is out and ready to destroy all I his path!"

 

[CrippleThreat]

"That's right boys and girls! Dynamax Mewtwo so is out and ready to destroy all I his path!"

Damn. Before the direct that showed the game off, I believed that SWSH's main gimmick was going to be armoured pokémon; you would have had your fan-favorites, like the regional starters and the pseudos. Plus, it would have been an easy way to shove Mewtwo into the game, with a novice nostalgia nod to the first movie.

 

[HeyYou]

I wonder which generation gets the least amount of hate. Even the beloved Kanto has been getting a shitload of backlash for over saturating the series with nostalgia pandering for the past few years. Both RBY and GSC were getting as heavily criticized as the newer games once the kids that started them grew up, discovered the internet, and took off their nostalgia goggles.

Platinum and Black/White. I haven't seen any major arguments over them to be honest and they're pretty much universally put in S tier. Diamond and Pearl are a different story.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Platinum and Black/White. I haven't seen any major arguments over them to be honest and they're pretty much universally put in S tier. Diamond and Pearl are a different story.

Didn't Black/White get criticism for forcing players to use mostly Unova Pokémon (for the most part, I think) until the endgame? I also heard that Black 2/White 2 remedied this by making some of the other generation mons available earlier on in the game, and was better received.

 

[HeyYou]

Didn't Black/White get criticism for forcing players to use mostly Unova Pokémon (for the most part, I think) until the endgame? I also heard that Black 2/White 2 remedied this by making some of the other generation mons available earlier on in the game.

Of course, but you could argue that it was a stylistic choice. They at the very least had the other Pokemon in the game. Otherwise, the main elements of the game, from the story to gameplay to the region, were praised as being pretty good. Most autists hold B2W2 as pretty much being the pinnacle of gameplay content, though, so I'll amend it to Platinum/Black 2/White 2.

 

[OddEyes]

Didn't Black/White get criticism for forcing players to use mostly Unova Pokémon (for the most part, I think) until the endgame? I also heard that Black 2/White 2 remedied this by making some of the other generation mons available earlier on in the game, and was better received.

Of course, but you could argue that it was a stylistic choice. They at the very least had the other Pokemon in the game. Otherwise, the main elements of the game, from the story to gameplay to the region, were praised as being pretty good. Most autists hold B2W2 as pretty much being the pinnacle of gameplay content, though, so I'll amend it to Platinum/Black 2/White 2.

Look as someone who's been following this sort of thing, you wouldn't believe the bitching people had about BW. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised that the same people who hated that aspect are not the same saying it was a good game.

 

[Archeops]

I used to be into the competitive scene but my love for it withered and died when I discovered the amount of rampant cheating that goes on in VGC, both for the mainstay games and for the card tournaments. My autism wouldn't let me find any enjoyment in a community that promoted cheating and had tons of collusion behind the scenes because it had completely lost it's integrity. Crap like "You can cheat as long as you don't get caught" completely ruined it for me. I remember getting into debates with others about whether it matters if someone cheated or not or about how justified they were in using hacked or genned pokemon because they just "didn't have the time" to breed or reset a bunch of times to get a perfect IV Kyogre or some shit and it devalued all the people and all of the time they spent breeding pokemon legitimately and soft resetting for shiny legendaries and whatnot.
I used to be a breeder back when X and Y just came out and I'd breed pokemon with perfect IVs for folks who would trade my shinies or other pokemon in return. I also bred shiny pokemon that I would give away for free. Breeding was actually kind of fun for me despite how tedious it was but I was proud of my breeding skills and I was proud that the pokemon I worked hard to breed where being used competitively. All of that went out the window when my bred pokemon would face off against perfect IV genned legendaries. Slowly but surely, they bullied out honest breeders and players who wanted to win through their own merits instead of genning everything with perfect stats a day or two before an event and they actually had the nerve to laugh at those of us who wanted to keep cheating out of it. Cheating is still cheating no matter the reason. if you can't win through your own skills and merits, what's the fucking point of entering a contest if you're just going to lie and cheat your way through everything? It may also be my contempt for liars and dishonest people in general, but it just irked me so much that a community I once loved became so corrupted with cheating and collusion and toxic hate and twisted it into this inner circle clique bullshit that a lot of assholes on the internet like doing. I could go on but no one wants to sit here and listen to me sperg about how much I hate VGC now.

Oh man, the cheating part really resonated with me despite being a TCG competitor back in the day (I still play competitive decks and some rogue decks, but I no longer attend sanctioned tournaments for various reasons). I remember reading some leaks involving NuggetBridge's (RIP) IRC channel a few years ago where some judges said that they'd look past obviously hacked/generated Pokemon (the Dream Ball Aegislash, Lure Ball Ludicolo, and Lure Ball Politoed that Ray Rizzo used during the 2014 US National Championships being a good example) if the offending player is a longtime competitor.

One thing I should mention is that cheating in the TCG is more obvious than in the VGC. Gimping coin flips has become so common most players use translucent dice for deciding coin flips and you occasionally hear of players getting reprimanded for stacking their deck, misplaying or "misplacing" cards, or looking at the bottom of their deck when they shouldn't. You also have tales like the Gino/Mees fiasco that lead to the offending player eventually getting a lifetime ban for stealing shit from an international player.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Oh man, the cheating part really resonated with me despite being a TCG competitor back in the day (I still play competitive decks and some rogue decks, but I no longer attend sanctioned tournaments for various reasons). I remember reading some leaks involving NuggetBridge's (RIP) IRC channel a few years ago where some judges said that they'd look past obviously hacked/generated Pokemon (the Dream Ball Aegislash, Lure Ball Ludicolo, and Lure Ball Politoed that Ray Rizzo used during the 2014 US National Championships being a good example) if the offending player is a longtime competitor.

One thing I should mention is that cheating in the TCG is more obvious than in the VGC. Gimping coin flips has become so common most players use translucent dice for deciding coin flips and you occasionally hear of players getting reprimanded for stacking their deck, misplaying or "misplacing" cards, or looking at the bottom of their deck when they shouldn't. You also have tales like the Gino/Mees fiasco that lead to the offending player eventually getting a lifetime ban for stealing shit from an international player.

I remembered when someone used a Beast Ball Porygon2 (I think) back in VGC 2017, which is not possible, and IIRC, while he did get a few looks about how blatantly obvious that hacking was, nothing ever came of it.

 

[Dopey Cunt]

I think there was also someone who used a shiny Incineroar in a premiere ball which was also not possible at the time and he ended up getting away with it too. They know for the most part no action will be taken against them and over time they've been more blatant about cheating in everyone's faces. The judges and the organizer knew them personally and also have a habit of looking the other way when they cheat. It's really overall just a bad thing and I have no interest in competitive anything for pokemon.
I also know a ton of them have a massive hate boner for Verlisify. He's not the best pokemon youtuber but he is in the right for calling out the cheating and saying something needs to be done about it.
TL;DR: I don't want any part of a community that rewards players for being lying, cheating hacks.

 

[UntimelyDhelmise]

Didn't Black/White get criticism for forcing players to use mostly Unova Pokémon (for the most part, I think) until the endgame? I also heard that Black 2/White 2 remedied this by making some of the other generation mons available earlier on in the game, and was better received.

Looking back, the fanbase's absolute vitriolic hate for the Unova games when they came out really bit itself in the ass. It's no coincidence that every gen since then has seen a non-stop Kanto circlejerk as a response, because Game Freak is scared shitless of ever trying Unova's formula of only new mons ever again.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

Looking back, the fanbase's absolute vitriolic hate for the Unova games when they came out really bit itself in the ass. It's no coincidence that every gen since then has seen a non-stop Kanto circlejerk as a response, because Game Freak is scared shitless of ever trying Unova's formula of only new mons ever again.

It really sucks that the fanbase can't decide on what they want from a Pokemon game.