Paper Mario Series

[Raiken]

I think it time for a new type of mario rpg. M&L (I think they're named dream team) studio going bankrupt probably mean the serie is dead. And the the new paper mario(SS, CS, OK) have only in common the name they are more like a weird generic party game than proper rpg with personality like the first 2 one.

I can't believe that they had to go under after they made a remake of a game you could already play on the 3DS, after the 3DS was as good as dead. I know reusing assets cuts costs but they already did it twice. How much did nintendo invest into those games, or did they just cut them off?

 

[ducktales4gameboy]

They should've just done a rollup rerelease of the first 3 M&Ls with an incremental graphics upgrade + widescreen rather than a full remake.

Anyways, more impressions. Nothing specific, just secondhand stuff because I wasn't watching (this covers through the end of the second? chapter, 4 hours-ish? maybe a little further):

1. Equipment! You have 5 hammer equip slots and 5 boots equip slots. Equippables have durability, no idea if they can be repaired, but they break after 10-15 uses and have an obvious tell if they're getting near that point. Good compromise between stickers and not having the one OP set of gear that sticks the entire game. There are also 4 accessory slots, each of which takes its own specific accessory type. This is the badge surrogate.

2. Combat ramps up seriously in the second chapter with enemies reacting to attack types and not being one-shottable even if the puzzle is done perfectly. Enemies also have per-enemy stuff like jumping on troopas to one-shot the entire row, ala TTYD. Also you get something akin to the earthbound instant kill mechanic where if you first-hit an enemy from an area you've already been through it just dies instantly with no combat. Bosses have own unique combat type where you're on the outside, the boss is on the inside and there's some sort of boardgame with Mario following arrows you move with the ring switching mechanic to determine where you hit. Didn't see this and didn't really get a clear explanation but at least it sounds different and more like RPG combat.

3. Permanent upgrades found in the world. Hooray. This is what I wanted. I think I'll wind up running through this instead of just watching.

4. A toad gets folded into a beetle and says that he read a book about this and it sounded much worse than it was. Ten points to the writing team.

E: SO says it's a solid 7 and might be an 8 if it keeps improving, but the slow start's awful.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

They should've just done a rollup rerelease of the first 3 M&Ls with an incremental graphics upgrade + widescreen rather than a full remake.

Anyways, more impressions. Nothing specific, just secondhand stuff because I wasn't watching (this covers through the end of the second? chapter, 4 hours-ish? maybe a little further):

1. Equipment! You have 5 hammer equip slots and 5 boots equip slots. Equippables have durability, no idea if they can be repaired, but they break after 10-15 uses and have an obvious tell if they're getting near that point. Good compromise between stickers and not having the one OP set of gear that sticks the entire game. There are also 4 accessory slots, each of which takes its own specific accessory type. This is the badge surrogate.

2. Combat ramps up seriously in the second chapter with enemies reacting to attack types and not being one-shottable even if the puzzle is done perfectly. Enemies also have per-enemy stuff like jumping on troopas to one-shot the entire row, ala TTYD. Also you get something akin to the earthbound instant kill mechanic where if you first-hit an enemy from an area you've already been through it just dies instantly with no combat. Bosses have own unique combat type where you're on the outside, the boss is on the inside and there's some sort of boardgame with Mario following arrows you move with the ring switching mechanic to determine where you hit. Didn't see this and didn't really get a clear explanation but at least it sounds different and more like RPG combat.

3. Permanent upgrades found in the world. Hooray. This is what I wanted. I think I'll wind up running through this instead of just watching.

4. A toad gets folded into a beetle and says that he read a book about this and it sounded much worse than it was. Ten points to the writing team.

E: SO says it's a solid 7 and might be an 8 if it keeps improving, but the slow start's awful.

Are there different towns at least? Any reference to other games or characters?

 

[NerdShamer]

Are there different towns at least? Any reference to other games or characters?

2 Koopas see an cardboard shy guy trying to steal an key. They nag Mario to do because all they can do is slowly walk into the thief. And another gem from the Treehouse stream is a miniature golf course, which hides the classic set of stairs to go with the flagpole. What happens next is obvious.

 

[Marissa Moira]

at least there was only ONE smt apocalypse please be good smt5 PLEASE BE GOOD.

It's not looking promising for Atlus on the switch

Infact Persona has usurped SMT to such an extent that there's rumors of needing to put mention of the Persona series on the box just for the game to sell now.

Don't call it a grave, this is the future you chose by not buying Raidou's games.

 

[Nobunaga]

It's not looking promising for Atlus on the switch

View attachment 1442461

Infact Persona has usurped SMT to such an extent that there's rumors of needing to put mention of the Persona series on the box just for the game to sell now.

Don't call it a grave, this is the future you chose by not buying Raidou's games.

>release the port of a game that didnt even sell that well after 1 year
>puzzle block games arent popular
>barely any publicity
>woooooooooow, why doesnt it sell!
Shoo shoo personafag

 

[Overcooked Raccoon]

It's not looking promising for Atlus on the switch

View attachment 1442461

Infact Persona has usurped SMT to such an extent that there's rumors of needing to put mention of the Persona series on the box just for the game to sell now.

Don't call it a grave, this is the future you chose by not buying Raidou's games.

I think there's a lot of problems with this, considering Catherine itself has a horrible sales track record. Here's some stuff I nabbed from PC Gamer. It goes Opening Sales/Lifetime (Japan)

1. [PS3] Catherine {2011-02-17} — 136,531 / 210,543
2. [PS4] Catherine: Full Body {2019-02-14} — 53,606 / 69,804
3. [360] Catherine {2011-02-17} — 17,768 / 26,222
4. [PSV] Catherine: Full Body {2019-02-14} — 7,980 / 7,980
5. [NSW] Catherine: Full Body for Nintendo Switch {2020-07-02} — 6,917 / NEW
6. [PS3] Catherine [Best Selection] {2012-12-20} — 5,281 / 5,281

It's safe to say that more people will buy Catherine to eclipse the Vita(Poor thing) and probably be just shy of PS4 numbers. It's niche as it is, so it'll keep it's cult status.

I'd probably go with that at least overseas Atlus would be smart to just keep remaking and re-releasing their Persona games as they will do heavy numbers here and probably even more in Japan. Persona 4 on Steam became the number one selling JRPG on Steam. Mind you that's beating out Tales of, all the Neptunia/Atelier games, and ALL the Final Fantasy ones. That's pretty fucking nuts considering it's just P4 Golden coming out to PC.

Back to Paper Mario though, the game will sell better then Color Splash because of the install base, but hopefully it brings more attention to the pros of the Color Splash style, but also bring up the cons at a bigger audience. It's safe to say when people realize the problems with Origami King (Battles being skipped, no level progression, minigames out the ass, etc) they'll discuss that at length.

With Alphadream being gone now (RIP) Nintendo would still want to get some of that sweet Mario RPG action, and I'd assume in the best case, Paper Mario taking it's baby steps back to it's former glory with the story buddies in OK, will hopefully be a waking call to what people want.

TTYD HD would realistically be the smartest choice as the game itself STILL looks good sans the 3D models. If they gave it the same treatment current Paper Mario has, with like a redone soundtrack (Using the Color Splash big band I hope), it would be a shoe in for people.

I'd love for the original to be redone but I feel that it would be much harder to do, and also not have the same impact as TTYD. Which did have some replay options at the end for the Pit of 100 trials.

 

[Islamic Creampie]

I had picked up Sticker Star recently. It was cheap so I said why not? Fuck, this game is a chore. I beat the first world, but made an effort to avoid battles since it all seems pointless, and even detrimental given that attacks are limited. Managed to beat the first boss without using a Thing, but how the hell are you supposed to know about that stuff? I don't recall the game really giving you any hints to what you need for it.

I'm on the fence about Origami King. I know it still does away with exp and attacks are only semi-consumable this time around, but I do think the game really looks nice. The poster above having some positive impressions gives me some confidence, even if it's not exactly what I want (another proper RPG like the first two).

 

[Marissa Moira]

>release the port of a game that didnt even sell that well after 1 year
>puzzle block games arent popular
>barely any publicity
>woooooooooow, why doesnt it sell!
Shoo shoo personafag

They're going to probably stick a Chie or Ann clone in SMT5 just like they shoved a Yukiko clone in Apocalypse. The gameplay isn't going to fucking carry it and they're going to want SMT5 to be a story game. If gameplay was carrying JRPGs on Switch, then dragon quest would not have sold a pitiful amount and people would have been demanding gamefreak's head instead of pushing pokemon to the top selling spot.

I think there's a lot of problems with this, considering Catherine itself has a horrible sales track record. Here's some stuff I nabbed from PC Gamer. It goes Opening Sales/Lifetime (Japan)

1. [PS3] Catherine {2011-02-17} — 136,531 / 210,543
2. [PS4] Catherine: Full Body {2019-02-14} — 53,606 / 69,804
3. [360] Catherine {2011-02-17} — 17,768 / 26,222
4. [PSV] Catherine: Full Body {2019-02-14} — 7,980 / 7,980
5. [NSW] Catherine: Full Body for Nintendo Switch {2020-07-02} — 6,917 / NEW
6. [PS3] Catherine [Best Selection] {2012-12-20} — 5,281 / 5,281

It's safe to say that more people will buy Catherine to eclipse the Vita(Poor thing) and probably be just shy of PS4 numbers. It's niche as it is, so it'll keep it's cult status.

It is safe to say that at least overseas Atlus would be smart to just keep remaking and re-releasing their Persona games as they will do heavy numbers here and probably even more in Japan. Persona 4 on Steam became the number one selling JRPG on Steam. Mind you that's beating out Tales of, all the Neptunia/Atelier games, and ALL the Final Fantasy ones. That's pretty fucking nuts considering it's just P4 Golden coming out to PC.

Also best selling JRPG on steam just means 500k sales, that's half a million. That's the number we have for persona 4 Golden on steam. on consoles JRPGs sell well into the few millions. Final Fantasy 7R is somewhere around 5 million copies sold as the most recent big name RPG and Persona 5 royal and Monster Hunter Iceborne both eclipsed 500k in sales on day one. While it's impressive for an old ass game, it's not enough to get them to stop catering towards consoles for their primary source of income, this is the third/fourth individual game atlus has ported to PC with the other faring far worse.

 

[Sun Shihong]

Sticker star 3: The Foldering.​

The original Book of Mario on 64 brought me great memories, beating Kent C. Koopa was a great achievement for me because he was tougher than Browser, Thousands of Doors only had some issues with the backtracking and I didn't play any game besides the two Book of Marios.

But really, is there any reasons to invest in combat systems for the Paper Mario games, now that the "stories" consist of meta humor and the franchise is just another NSMB-like spinoff and they don't bother with giving some proper rewards for fighting enemies?

 

[Marissa Moira]

Sticker star 3: The Foldering.​

The original Book of Mario on 64 brought me great memories, beating Kent C. Koopa was a great achievement for me because he was tougher than Browser, Thousands of Doors only had some issues with the backtracking and I didn't play any game besides the two Book of Marios.

But really, is there any reasons to invest in combat systems for the Paper Mario games, now that the "stories" consist of meta humor and the franchise is just another NSMB-like spinoff and they don't bother with giving some proper rewards for fighting enemies?

It makes you wonder what will it take for them to kill Paper Mario. Mario and Luigi died because people stopped buying the games and the dev went under. Loads of other Nintendo franchises died due to far less.

 

[Nobunaga]

They're going to probably stick a Chie or Ann clone in SMT5 just like they shoved a Yukiko clone in Apocalypse. The gameplay isn't going to fucking carry it and they're going to want SMT5 to be a story game. If gameplay was carrying JRPGs on Switch, then dragon quest would not have sold a pitiful amount and people would have been demanding gamefreak's head instead of pushing pokemon to the top selling spot.


Also best selling JRPG on steam just means 500k sales, that's half a million. That's the number we have for persona 4 Golden on steam. on consoles JRPGs sell well into the few millions. Final Fantasy 7R is somewhere around 5 million copies sold as the most recent big name RPG and Persona 5 royal and Monster Hunter Iceborne both eclipsed 500k in sales on day one. While it's impressive for an old ass game, it's not enough to get them to stop catering towards consoles for their primary source of income, this is the third/fourth individual game atlus has ported to PC with the other faring far worse.

>M-muh persona
Dragon quests hass never sold well on the west, and it doesnt help that it already released for other consoles
Also of fucking course pokemon would sell well, that series is coonsume product incarnate

But really, is there any reasons to invest in combat systems for the Paper Mario games, now that the "stories" consist of meta humor and the franchise is just another NSMB-like spinoff and they don't bother with giving some proper rewards for fighting enemies?

Their excuse was that M&L was the actual rpg series, but it seems the current pm director has a hard on for money after directing the tingle game, rpg mechanics be dammed

 

[Chiri]

Tanabe sounds more and more like Lucifer in the flesh the more I hear about him. I totally believe normal fights being made more difficult to avoid is the same as Things being made mandatory for boss fights in Color Splash.

They're going to probably stick a Chie or Ann clone in SMT5 just like they shoved a Yukiko clone in Apocalypse. The gameplay isn't going to fucking carry it and they're going to want SMT5 to be a story game. If gameplay was carrying JRPGs on Switch, then dragon quest would not have sold a pitiful amount and people would have been demanding gamefreak's head instead of pushing pokemon to the top selling spot.


Also best selling JRPG on steam just means 500k sales, that's half a million. That's the number we have for persona 4 Golden on steam. on consoles JRPGs sell well into the few millions. Final Fantasy 7R is somewhere around 5 million copies sold as the most recent big name RPG and Persona 5 royal and Monster Hunter Iceborne both eclipsed 500k in sales on day one. While it's impressive for an old ass game, it's not enough to get them to stop catering towards consoles for their primary source of income, this is the third/fourth individual game atlus has ported to PC with the other faring far worse.

Where exactly did he say that P4G's release would get Atlus to shift to PC as a primary source of income? He was just saying that they will probably bring other games to Steam since they were rewarded with around 7 million dollars just for porting an eight year old game.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Where exactly did he say that P4G's release would get Atlus to shift to PC as a primary source of income? He was just saying that they will probably bring other games to Steam since they were rewarded with around 7 million dollars just for porting an eight year old game.

This happened before, I'll explain to people who are not familiar.

With Valkyria Chronicles Sega misread the market. They ported the original to PC and it did amazingly well. They then made Valkyria Chronicles 4 thinking it would be a repeat success. Now VC4 isn't that much different from VC1 from a gameplay standpoint, VC 2 and 3 and Revolution all are very different from VC1 and they never did partically well. So VC4 was assumed to be a hit since it embellished the original gameplay systems for the series. They thought releasing it on everything would mean it would be a surefire hit. For the time VC1's sales on the PC were considered extremely good.

Well it fucking bombed because people didn't come back for the sequel and it only sold a meager amount on PC compared to the VC1 Remaster. VC4 only really did ok on the playstation. But since they spent so much on making the $150 special edition for everything, the cost of production was fucking huge.

I picked up VC4 for 30 bucks and it was the expensive edition that came with the model tank. This was a real major blow to Sega, the game was not cheap to make and not cheap to produce.

I'd like to think that maybe sega has learned from their mistakes, but there's a fucking Sonic Mania 2 void in my soul that's been there for years with no hope in sight.

 

[NerdShamer]

It makes you wonder what will it take for them to kill Paper Mario. Mario and Luigi died because people stopped buying the games and the dev went under. Loads of other Nintendo franchises died due to far less.

Basically, an massive drop in sales. Which is unlikely, considering how fast the last two games soldsold and the current drought of new Switch games.

But really, is there any reasons to invest in combat systems for the Paper Mario games, now that the "stories" consist of meta humor and the franchise is just another NSMB-like spinoff and they don't bother with giving some proper rewards for fighting enemies?

From an developmental standpoint, the last two games sold well, despite their flawed combat. But the thing is, that there's people out there who want something better and Origami King is offering a lot more than just fighting.

Honestly, I'm convinced that the era of challenging Nintendo games are over. Look at how easy most of Oddessy was, along with how streamlined BOTW is.

 

[Rotollo]

I'm not sure if this is a potshot at how the games themselves use toads or trying to mock the fans who don't like the copy and paste nature of them in the series, either way it's certainly interesting

 

[Marissa Moira]

Just think of all the money they spent on this rather than translating Mother 3.

We're going to get Ys 5 before we get Mother 3 at this point.

 

[Rotollo]

Just think of all the money they spent on this rather than translating Mother 3.

We're going to get Ys 5 before we get Mother 3 at this point.

yeah rather not get a treehousified version of mother 3 to be honest with you if Paper Mario's character dialog coming off so samey is any indication of how they would handle it especially when fans did it much better already.

Honestly, I'm convinced that the era of challenging Nintendo games are over. Look at how easy most of Oddessy was, along with how streamlined BOTW is.

At least with BOTW, there was still some tension early game. durability was way too harsh yes but early game was at least engaging in some ways, meanwhile TOK's combat is the video game equivalent of filling your taxes, no tension just tedium.
I just wonder why even make it turn based anymore when the "Puzzle" gameplay they are going for just does not really complement it. Why not go full hog with an overhall if your changing it so much, otherwise you are just fucking up the game flow.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

This happened before, I'll explain to people who are not familiar.

With Valkyria Chronicles Sega misread the market. They ported the original to PC and it did amazingly well. They then made Valkyria Chronicles 4 thinking it would be a repeat success. Now VC4 isn't that much different from VC1 from a gameplay standpoint, VC 2 and 3 and Revolution all are very different from VC1 and they never did partically well. So VC4 was assumed to be a hit since it embellished the original gameplay systems for the series. They thought releasing it on everything would mean it would be a surefire hit. For the time VC1's sales on the PC were considered extremely good.

Well it fucking bombed because people didn't come back for the sequel and it only sold a meager amount on PC compared to the VC1 Remaster. VC4 only really did ok on the playstation. But since they spent so much on making the $150 special edition for everything, the cost of production was fucking huge.

I picked up VC4 for 30 bucks and it was the expensive edition that came with the model tank. This was a real major blow to Sega, the game was not cheap to make and not cheap to produce.

I'd like to think that maybe sega has learned from their mistakes, but there's a fucking Sonic Mania 2 void in my soul that's been there for years with no hope in sight.

I was thinking earlier.....where the hell is the next Power Stone game lol

 

[Boobie Bomb]

View attachment 1442709
I'm not sure if this is a potshot at how the games themselves use toads or trying to mock the fans who don't like the copy and paste nature of them in the series, either way, it's certainly interesting

Might as well remake the first 3 Paper Mario games but in 3D at this point. it's already becoming a huge mess as is.