Off-Topic Regressive Left/Islamophile Tangents

[beansntoast]

What I meant by that, of course, is that the west is bringing the poorer people in addition.
Immigration usually occurs when less fortunate people look for new job opportunities in a better land.
Unfortunately they bring their primitive mindsets along with them

saying it's only the poor uneducated ones is no true scottsman fallacy...

I know this may be a dumb example, but it's the only one at the top of my head: in her Biography Waris Dirie writes, that sometime after she fled from Somalia to the UK she developed some sort of infection from her FGM injuries and had to see a doctor. She wasn't that fluent in english yet so they brought in either a doctor or a nurse (sorry can't remember) who would translate for her, but instead of translating for her, the man called her a whore for going to a doctor and showing her naked body to a western man.
so no it's not only the poor and uneducated who enforce and support these practices

 

[Assorted Nuts]

A weird thing I've noticed (and maybe @Ntwadumela can confirm) is that nobody hates Muslims more them other Muslims. They have a serious clan mentality, they don't trust others that aren't in their extended family, they are nabourly with the Muslims that are there but don't want any more Muslims migrating into Europe.
Just things I've noticed with working with them and living around them.

The Quran calls for Jihad against both nonbelievers and hypocrites. As far as I can tell a hypocrite is simply a Muslim with slightly different beliefs than you and they're probably much easier to find when you live in a Muslim majority area.

 

[Ntwadumela]

saying it's only the poor uneducated ones is no true scottsman fallacy...

I know this may be a dumb example, but it's the only one at the top of my head: in her Biography Waris Dirie writes, that sometime after she fled from Somalia to the UK she developed some sort of infection from her FGM injuries and had to see a doctor. She wasn't that fluent in english yet so they brought in either a doctor or a nurse (sorry can't remember) who would translate for her, but instead of translating for her, the man called her a whore for going to a doctor and showing her naked body to a western man.
so no it's not only the poor and uneducated who enforce and support these practices

Do you have any idea what nation the doctor came from?
Chances are that though he managed to secure a job he had the same primitive views as the family that raised him.

A weird thing I've noticed (and maybe @Ntwadumela can confirm) is that nobody hates Muslims more them other Muslims. They have a serious clan mentality, they don't trust others that aren't in their extended family, they are nabourly with the Muslims that are there but don't want any more Muslims migrating into Europe.
Just things I've noticed with working with them and living around them.

It's because various Muslims have differing beliefs and interpretations on the same book. Differences in culture as well since a multitude of countries practice Islam. We here in Kuwait for example (including me) value you Americans, your nation and your culture far more than we do religious extremists and terrorist groups. Not only are DAESH supporters/sympathizers/members executed at most and arrested at least severity, but even white foreigners are paid far more than Arab Muslims working in the same job, like teaching for example.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

The problem with Islamophiles is that they're making it much harder for Islam to modernize and reform.

Islam has no hope to modernize and reform, that's part of the problem.

 

[AnOminous]

Islam has no hope to modernize and reform, that's part of the problem.

Islam will chill the fuck out in 500 years or so like every other fanatically violent religion has.

The problem is the world doesn't have 500 years to wait for the autistic tard of current religions to quit throwing tard rages when they currently come with nukes, like Pakistan has.

 

[Tim Buckley]

Islam will chill the fuck out in 500 years or so like every other fanatically violent religion has.

Not necessarily, it will "calm down" only and as soon as their theocracy ends, leaving nothing but FARC-esque weak, small and unfounded terrorist groups as leftovers (like ISIL etc.), their big source of corruption are those fundamentalist governments that are constantly shilled by the media, big NGOs and powerful world leaders.
I mean, at this point it's their tradition to keep on killing each other for retarded reasons but that could easily end in less than a century without policed and institutionalized dogma.

 

[Ntwadumela]

So, you're fine with Islamist terrorism, is what you are implicitly saying here. It's axiomatic at this point: with no reform, comes no change. You can't have you cake and eat it too, nutella.

You are well-intentioned and I see your point of view, however what about the rest of us here who aren't involved in terrorism?
You can't fix what's not broken, especially if we don't have this problem in my country. Though a social reform should be in order in many other places, many of the very things in Muslim majority nations that are subject to criticism have been in practice since before the religion was spread. Hijabs, Bacha Bazi, war/conflict have all been around since antiquity and were a product of the ethnic culture surrounding them.

If we get rid of the extremist ideas I believe we'll fix the problem (optimistic I know but it's true).

Jesus had a beard, meaning you hate Jesus. Muslims hate Jesus, ergo you are a Muslim.

We don't hate Jesus. We consider him to be an important prophet. In fact we refer to him as Sayidna Eesa (AAS). We just don't consider him to be God like Christians do.

 

[Lurker]

i don't understand why it's hard for people to just condemn people who kill other people, regardless of what religion or whatever that they may or may not follow.

i mean, i think islam in its current state is shit. if reformed, it would still be shit, but on the same level that other religions are shit. still, people need to call a spade a spade. it does seem like islam is responsible for quite a lot of terrorism that's been going on, so it would make sense to call it what it is, which is "islamic terrorism".

self-censoring gives the enemy more power. if people identify the enemy, they can unite to find a way to deal with the enemy. as long as we have people who refuse to identify the enemy, we'll never be able to fully unite against it and deal with it.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

Asking you to be objective about your religion is like asking a rape victim to be objective about their rape.

What the actual fuck.

 

[John Furrman]

You are well-intentioned and I see your point of view, however what about the rest of us here who aren't involved in terrorism?
You can't fix what's not broken, especially if we don't have this problem in my country. Though a social reform should be in order in many other places, many of the very things in Muslim majority nations that are subject to criticism have been in practice since before the religion was spread. Hijabs, Bacha Bazi, war/conflict have all been around since antiquity and were a product of the ethnic culture surrounding them.

If we get rid of the extremist ideas I believe we'll fix the problem (optimistic I know but it's true).

Pew research shows that over 60% of muslims world wide hold one form of radical belief or another. Stop perpetuating that "NOT ALL MUSLIMS" bullshit because the majority of muslims around the world, over a billion of them do agree with Islamic extremism at some level.

here's a nice list of muslim sentiments towards extremism. It throws a massive wrench in your narrative.

Here have another more comprehensive list. Again, please, just stop. I'm going to step back because I'm not the most objective on this matter even though I have the facts to back my claims up. I still love you nutella, but damn, do we disagree.

 

[Lurker]

Pew research shows that over 60% of muslims world wide hold one form of radical belief or another. Stop perpetuating that "NOT ALL MUSLIMS" bullshit because the majority of muslims around the world, over a billion of them do agree with Islamic extremism.

here's a nice list of muslim sentiments towards extremism. It throws a massive wrench in your narrative.

lol calm down.

edit: we really need a 'salty' rating. @Null

 

[The_Truth]

The verse in particular is only towards those who instigate and attack Muslims and the Prophet himself. The context you're viewing it in is not the same context it's supposed to be viewed in.
Additionally there's a verse in Suraat Al Baqara that translates to "There is no compulsion in religion."
https://islamqa.info/en/84308

The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

Islam's only real purpose for the burqa is to hide the bruises.

I love how these people have to go back literally 900 years to find an example of Christianity being remotely as bad as modern-day Islam.

I remember that Christ-hate went hand-in-hand with atheism when I was growing up. It wasn't good enough to simply disbelieve in Christianity, you had to spite it any way you could because it lied to you and made you look like a dumbass your whole life. Other religions were synonymous with Native American spirituality and Buddhism, which is to say practitioners were always absolutely enlightened, wise sages.

That's why you see a lot of these regressive leftists bring up the crusades all the time, but never acknowledge the violent history in other religions, it stands out to them as the sole crime ever committed by religion. They're not just protecting it to save face against conservatives, they're largely simply oblivious to any of the actual inner workings of any religion apart from Christianity.

 

[muh_moobs]

If we get rid of the extremist ideas I believe we'll fix the problem (optimistic I know but it's true)

But you said earlier:

I don't think Islam should reform as the religion states that any "innovation" to the religion is blasphemy.

And so, to remove the extremist ideas would be innovation, which is blasphemy, so in your own words head-lopin', FGM, and child rape MUST stay in the faith as to remove those ideas would be blasphemous.

NOT TODAY ISIS.

 

[Ntwadumela]

But you said earlier:



And so, to remove the extremist ideas would be innovation, which is blasphemy, so in your own words head-lopin', FGM, and child rape MUST stay in the faith as to remove those ideas would be blasphemous.

NOT TODAY ISIS.

What I meant by no reformation is not making reforms to the Quran.

If it's reforming societal and cultural customs like you said, I'm all up for that.

 

[muh_moobs]

What I meant by no reformation is not making reforms to the Quran.

If it's reforming societal and cultural customs like you said, I'm all up for that.

All the backwards ideas and hate come from the Quran, so . . .

I mean, child rapin' goes all the way back to Prophet Mohammed and his nine year old wife.

To change any part of Islam would require extensive change to the rest of it. And since change = Jihad, nothing will ever change.

 

[NIA-DOA 2.0]

So I checked some of the atheists pages on FB that would be categorized as "euphoric".

Apparently, Islam is becoming the new punching bag for these guys. Especially after a Pakistani man was sentenced to death for posting an Atheist meme making fun of the Quran.

 

[John Furrman]

Kraut and Tea released a video today where he explores the myth of the "moderate muslim".

tl;dw: The concept of moderate muslims are a narrative being pushed by the media, and perpetuating the myth is doing more harm than good. Additionally, and perhaps even ironically, it wasn't the Democrats that started the myth, it was the Bush administration refusing to denounce any religion since itself was held to Christian religious convictions when they coined the now oft repeated lie that Islam is a "religion of peace" after the 9/11 attacks.

As for my take, I really don't know what to make of the matter. Because certainly people like our dear Nutella and his nation exists and depending on who you ask could be considered a moderate Muslim but at the same time Nutella is just anecdotal evidence. However, I do agree with Kraut's point about the narrative being pushed being pernicious and the media is guilty of perpetuating it.