Night Vision NVG / Thermal

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Stackbodiesbro

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Night Vision is often considered one of the most sought after pieces of equipment to own and to add a person's tactical kit. Because of that there is often many misnomers and misconceptions associated with them. If you already know the basics of NVGs feel free to disregard the paragraphs below and post away. If you are completely new to the world of night vision please feel free to read and ask any questions.

There are 3 common types of "Night Vision"; they are as follows:
1. Digital Night Vision most commonly seen in use with CCTV cameras and similar and although it is used by militaries often on vehicles it is not very practical for an individual to use. The bulk of personal use NVGs are a little more than toys and not practical at all. Though technology is rapidly increasing in this type of Night Vision.
2. Analog Night Vision is what most people would immediately think of as "Night Vision". This type of night vision amplifies ambient and near-infrared (IR) light into a visible spectrum orders of magnitude higher than can be seen with the naked eye. This type of night vison is the type most commonly used by military personnel all over the world.
3. Lastly, Thermal imaging (Thermals) are digital devices that can detect Infrared also know as heat and translates it into something visible for the end user. It is commonly used to defected the heat signatures of living organisms or the heat of a combustion engine. And, while it can be a powerful tool, it has its own short comings such as battery life and is not optimal in the use of personal navigation.

What to know before you buy:
Analog Night Vision is going to be the most practical type of NVGs for the average person and there are 3 generations of Analog NVG technology. Gen 1 was developed in the 60s and is often sold in cheap NVGs and is going to be practically useless and a waste of money due to how low quality and "dark" they are to use. Generation 2 was developed in the 70s and has increased light amplification over the pervious Generation but the clarity of the image left much to be desired. Generation 3 is currently the pinnacle of Analog Night Vision technology and has been in use by American armed forces and its allies for the past 3 decades.

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There are really only 2 types of Analog Night Vision to consider buying: Photonis (Improved Gen 2) and Gen 3 Night Vision. While there is much debate about which type of High end Night Vision is superior they are both going to be completely serviceable to the end user and out-perform other generations.

Gen 3 vs Photonis.jpg


Types of NVG housing:
Monocular is going to be a single tube NVG and your cheapest type of high end Analog Night vision. The most common type of monocular is going to be the PVS-14. It has been the most commonly issued NVG for the US military and thus the cheapest and most readily available unit. They have a disadvantage of using 1 eye and can be disorienting due to the lack of depth perception, but with practice this can be overcome.

Binoculars are going to be at least twice as expensive as a PVS-14 for obvious reasons, but are the most popular type of NVGs by the majority of end users. While they do not offer much more of a field of view increase over a monocular, they offer depth perception and can make navigation and shooting at lot more "natural" and can often lesson eye fatigue allowing more extended wear. There are two types of Binocular Night Vision housings: Fixed bridge and Articulating. With fixed bridge NVGs, the tubes are unable to be moved independently and are marketed as more rugged and often slightly cheaper than articulated housings. Articulated housings allow the tubes to be able to swing out to the sides allowing the user the option of choosing which tube they want to look through at any given time.

Panoramic NVGs often use 4 tubes to increase the field of view 3X for the end user. However, they are exponentially more expensive than other NVGs and significantly heavier and bulkier than other options. They are often only used by Military for short term Urban combat missions or by LE SWAT teams or similar units.

NVG Housing types.jpg



Cost:
Generally speaking, Night vision is going to cost you around $3000 per tube or more. Deals can be made second hand especially if they are surplus models but there could be untold wear and tear on the unit and it could always potentially be stolen or have "fallen off the back of a military truck" and there are risks with owning a unit like that.

Additional Equipment:
Unfortunately, you will need additional equipment if you plan to use your night vision in any "tactical" capacity. You will need a helmet with some sort of NVG shroud. In addition to the helmet you will also need an NVG mount. The 2 most popular brands are Wilcox and Norotos. If you have a PVS-14 you will also need some sort of adaptor for your mount, and I always recommend getting the same brands for adaptor and mount. Lastly, one common accessory is some sort of aiming laser to mount to your weapon platform, preferably something with a IR flood light. It is also a good idea for have your optic on your weapon to be NVG capable with being on the lowest illumination setting or a dedicated NVG setting.


Again., this is something I quickly whipped up to get the thread rolling . If anyone has any other good Infographics or resources to add to the OP please feel free to shoot me a PM.
 
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Never underestimate having a good illuminator as well as your NVG. I have a couple of Streamlight SuperTac's and boy do those things work crazy well.

Driving with a monolcular NVG (like PVS-14) is a bit of an art as you don't have any real distance vision, but once you get used to it its pretty easy. Personally I prefer a binocular setup for driving and a monocular for general walking around. (The monoludar setup is just lighter and more comfortable for walking)

I use a Crye Precision Nightcap over a helmet, again just because its far lighter and more comfortable
 
I am currently reworking a toy gen 1 nvg binoculars to be better suited to actual hands free use. Using welding goggles as a frame to house the digital monitor to display ir cam feed. Gen 1 is only good if you know you are the only one running it.
 
Never underestimate having a good illuminator as well as your NVG. I have a couple of Streamlight SuperTac's and boy do those things work crazy well.

Driving with a monolcular NVG (like PVS-14) is a bit of an art as you don't have any real distance vision, but once you get used to it its pretty easy. Personally I prefer a binocular setup for driving and a monocular for general walking around. (The monoludar setup is just lighter and more comfortable for walking)

I use a Crye Precision Nightcap over a helmet, again just because its far lighter and more comfortable
I mean... Illuminators are nice but if your opponents also have literally anything you're going to stick out. Taliban was able to use shitty cameras with night vision to catch coalition troops who left their IR stuff on. Passive aiming is nice. I have a surefire vampire on my rifle just for the white/ir light option. Also if you guys use the digital thermal stuff just keep it for spotting when you're stopped, the lag will make you ill and disorient you.
 
Passive Aiming and strict light discipline (including IR) are going to be extremely important as NVGs become more prevalent.

If you live in America it's best to assume you are dealing with a near peer threat.
 
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One thing no one brings up about night vision is that it cuts through light pollution and makes the night sky look like a long exposure photo, but in real time.

It’s also possible to see color with analog night vision, but the only device I know of that enables it is incredibly bulky:

The Friday Night Lights series on TFB is a great source for info on NV.
Panoramic NVGs often use 4 tubes to increase the field of view 3X for the end user. However, they are exponentially more expensive than other NVGs and significantly heavier and bulkier than other options. They are often only used by Military for short term Urban combat missions or by LE SWAT teams or similar units.
You can get 90% of the effect and less than half the weight with a Panobridge and only two tubes. The only thing to keep in mind is that you need collimated tubes, which means you have to buy them at the same time and tell the vendor that you intend to use them as a pair or pay to get them collimated.
Unfortunately, you will need additional equipment if you plan to use your night vision in any "tactical" capacity. You will need a helmet with some sort of NVG shroud. In addition to the helmet you will also need an NVG mount. The 2 most popular brands are Wilcox and Norotos. If you have a PVS-14 you will also need some sort of adaptor for your mount, and I always recommend getting the same brands for adaptor and mount. Lastly, one common accessory is some sort of aiming laser to mount to your weapon platform, preferably something with a IR flood light. It is also a good idea for have your optic on your weapon to be NVG capable with being on the lowest illumination setting or a dedicated NVG setting.
Note that this stuff is ridiculously overpriced because the only people buying it are government agencies and people rich enough to spend $3-10k on a toy. A Wilcox mount is $500 alone, and a quality civilian laser like the MAWL is over $3k.
 
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I put together a PVS-69 (the 3D printed, DIY digital-infrared project) a little while back as a personal introduction to soldering and a budget entry into night vision. It has definite drawbacks, but this was never going to be more than a fancy LARP toy to me, and 1000 CAD and a fun learning experience is a lot more justifiable than 3500 on a chinese Gen 2+ monocular.
Plus, having lol poor binos let me cut cost on a lol poor airsoft helmet, NVG mount and infrared light.

Initial results were very cool, though you do have to temper your expectations. Poor ambient performance, definitely illuminator dependent. Not super rugged, but also you don't care as much since it's not the cost of a small car. I don't really have much to compare with, I used a friend of a friend's analog monocular for 5 minutes once and that's about it. Between Hop and extrudedshoots' videos about them and similar digital units I think I had an accurate picture of the final result.

The DIY project really shines when you compare with the big name off the shelf digital alternatives - the Syonix Aurora (800-1300 CAD per eye, has input lag) or the Opsin (3500 CAD, god that's expensive, at this price I can just go analog).

I have to redo my wiring, swap out the voltage converter, and finish modeling/printing/assembling a 4x18650 battery pack to use, but if there's interest in the more humble end of the scale I can share what I have.
 
ridiculously overpriced
It's easy to seethe at this, but I would argue the price range is pretty "fair" for what the tech really is (the military is probably responsible for some upsell, but the price range is still in the reasonable area).

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Building a compact Photomultiplier tube that doesn't drain a battery, while also keeping the optical projection (your image) "clear" is something I have no clue of how they go about it. Also, the schematic image that I took from wikipedia got a "ionization track" due to this tech was mostly used to measure energy in x-rays and other high energy photons, so you can just remove that part for NVG. So for the sake of argument, everything from the photocathode (the red line in the image) to the connector pins (to the right part of the image) needs to fulfill the following criterias:
  • A low weight (also size)
  • Only using a battery (limited max voltage to utilize + run time)
  • Still have sharp optics / clear image in the end (I haven't even mentioned the optics for this...which definitely adds a few $100 at minimum)
  • Being able to "toss it around" (run with it without it breaking)
I would say that it's a "reasonable" price for what the tech really is. Consider if you buy a camera (consumer tech that works differently) in the $1000 range and you push the ISO or have a longer exposure time only to take photos in the dark, while filming in dark is pretty much impossible, adding a few $1000 doesn't seem that crazy to have real time "see in the dark" device.

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Still sucks tho... I also want some cool LARP gear for cheap. I don't think I will ever see the Panoramic versions go down to a "consumer friendly" price.
 
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The only way I think you'll see NVGs go down in price is if some tech giant can find a way to drive up consumer demand for these things. Imagine if Apple made some smart glasses that could project an intensified image of what's in front of you into your eye. Maybe Ford or GM could make a car that shows an intensified image of your surroundings at night to help with driver awareness. Put it into their hud technology, I don't know, but shit like that which isn't catering to hobbyists and is actually trying to get normal consumers on board with seeing in the dark by giving them purposes that dont consist of larping.
 
The only way I think you'll see NVGs go down in price is if some tech giant can find a way to drive up consumer demand for these things. Imagine if Apple made some smart glasses that could project an intensified image of what's in front of you into your eye. Maybe Ford or GM could make a car that shows an intensified image of your surroundings at night to help with driver awareness. Put it into their hud technology, I don't know, but shit like that which isn't catering to hobbyists and is actually trying to get normal consumers on board with seeing in the dark by giving them purposes that dont consist of larping.
Well, from a engineering perspective, for a driver you can just add a few extra $100 lamps for extra light (or just stronger lights), then you solved the "see in the dark" problem. For autodriving then you don't have the same criterias as I mentioned with the with the goggles, you don't need a small battery or to think about the size that much (you got some leeway if you are building it for cars). So you can forget cars going to save our NVG hobby LARP budget issues.

To not blackpill/doom posting about us never being able to LARP with $50 000 worth of gear. There are indeed some companies trying to do NVG commercially available, but they are using camera sensors, so they are pretty much just "bump up the ISO to the extreme and use AI to reduce noise", so they are not analogue for shit and have a longer delay (it's pretty much just VR glasses). AKASO Seemor is one that tries to fill that market gap, but to be honest, their action cameras sucks so I don't have much faith in their pseudo "NGV". At least they got the price down to ~$350.
 
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Well, from a engineering perspective, for a driver you can just add a few extra $100 lamps for extra light (or just stronger lights), then you solved the "see in the dark" problem. For autodriving then you don't have the same criterias as I mentioned with the with the goggles, you don't need a small battery or to think about the size that much (you got some leeway if you are building it for cars). So you can forget cars going to save our NVG hobby LARP budget issues.

To not blackpill/doom posting about us never being able to LARP with $50 000 worth of gear. There are indeed some companies trying to do NVG commercially available, but they are using camera sensors, so they are pretty much just "bump up the ISO to the extreme and use AI to reduce noise", so they are not analogue for shit and have a longer delay (it's pretty much just VR glasses). AKASO Seemor is one that tries to fill that market gap, but to be honest, their action cameras sucks so I don't have much faith in their pseudo "NGV". At least they got the price down to ~$350.
I mean as someone who as used panoramic NVGs before, I can tell you they are very overhyped. They are really only useful for pilots and direct actions like LE/SWAT or similar. I'd take a nice light set of 31s over gpnvg18s any day.

They are cool to flex though.

I also don't see any substantial private sector development of analog Night Vision ever coming to light. They why technology is progressing it seems light digital is the future. Although it's still got a way to catch up to the high end Analog tubs coming from L3/Harris.
 
They are cool to flex though.
KEK! I have seen them in video games and I think they look really cool! Hence I want them IRL. I don't care how retarded it is to say that, I just want them XD

I also don't see any substantial private sector development of analog Night Vision ever coming to light. They why technology is progressing it seems light digital is the future. Although it's still got a way to catch up to the high end Analog tubs coming from L3/Harris.
Neither do I. Most research is on the semiconduictor market (solar cells, computer chips and sensors), so digital photo sensors are the "safe bet" for any company who tries to invest in any comercial NVG development since if you want to go the analogue route, you are either on your own (very expensive and hard to find "experienced" engineers in that niche field) or you have to collaborate with the military that already have their companies and RnD (it's unlikely to outcompete them...).
 
I mean as someone who as used panoramic NVGs before, I can tell you they are very overhyped. They are really only useful for pilots and direct actions like LE/SWAT or similar. I'd take a nice light set of 31s over gpnvg18s any day.
IMO a lot of people would probably be better served by a monocle. I used a super ratty aviation version AN/PVS-5 and a PVS-14 Monocle for navigation and signaling stuff. Ignoring the antiquated gen 2 PVS-5 tech, I preferred the PVS-14 monocle because it left me with a naked eye that was semi-adjusted to the darkness. I could just squint my monocle eye and be able to do stuff like look through non-NVG friendly scopes or read documents/tools without having to wait for my eyes to adjust. Obviously if I was kicking in doors I probably would've liked a modern dual tube setup but I think it depends on which kind of situational awareness you're willing to sacrifice.
 
IMO a lot of people would probably be better served by a monocle. I used a super ratty aviation version AN/PVS-5 and a PVS-14 Monocle for navigation and signaling stuff. Ignoring the antiquated gen 2 PVS-5 tech, I preferred the PVS-14 monocle because it left me with a naked eye that was semi-adjusted to the darkness. I could just squint my monocle eye and be able to do stuff like look through non-NVG friendly scopes or read documents/tools without having to wait for my eyes to adjust. Obviously if I was kicking in doors I probably would've liked a modern dual tube setup but I think it depends on which kind of situational awareness you're willing to sacrifice.

That's why I love an articulated bino. If I want 1 eye for a high light saturated environment I can flip a tube up and if I want.
 
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