Naruto/Boruto Griefing Thread

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Sakura hitting Naruto all the time is just suppose to be funny slap stick not that serious, very common in a lot of anime. You see similar moments with Rukia and Nami. The problems are that Sakura just isn't a likable character and the story focuses so much on what a poor little orphan Naruto is.
I do know slapstick. When it comes to it the humor of it, it involves a voice of reason slapping sense on an idiot. Problem is that Sakura is, in my opinion, a bigger idiot than the one she slaps. In other words, the bigger, meaner idiot slaps the lesser, kinder, sympathetic and relatable idiot. Naruto is the voice of reason more often than Sakura (apart from his simping crush on her) making the slapstick not work for me unleash Naruto is reprimanded by a more reasonable person than her.

I mean after getting a new medical Hokage and healing Sasuke and most of their forces recovering from the Orochimaru Sand attack, Sasuke showed no gratitude or basic thanks towards Naruto for getting someone to heal him from the Mangekyou genjutsu and Naruto stupidly accepting a duel in a hospital.
Sasuke had his PTSD triggered so I can understand his mood. He was at a bad place, it was handled poorly by everyone involved and Orochimaru took advantage of all that.

As much as I hate how botched the later parts of Naruto were, up until this point, the story and characterization was solid.

As twisted as it sounds, I wouldn't mind Sasuke leaving Konoha for a better perspective, just not to Ororchimaru.
I hate Naruto's take of "They are the same thing", from the Sannin with Naruto under Jiraiya, Sakura under Tsunade and Sasuke under Orichimaru to the resurrection of a ninja god.
Pararells can work. Problem is that the Sannin are not THAT similar to their students but the story says they are. There are similarities but not enough to draw much pararell. Always going on about how "They are the same" actually draws attention on the differences after a while. It would be better to allow the audience to come to the conclusion of who is similar and who is not after a while (beyond what is necessary at least).

Let us look at the Sannin and their students to see how different they are. Jiraiya and Naruto are the most amicable and perverted member of their respective teams. Jiraiya falls more deeply into depression than Naruto while Naruto lacks Jiraiya 's Jutsu and strategy prefering variations on Rasengan with little more than that (though that is often enough). Orochimaru and Sasuke are the most evil members of their teams. However, Orochimaru is outright monstrous while Sasuke is just very angry and traumatised. Tsunade and Sakura are the most love-seeking members of their teams. Tsunade, however, is actually seeking love in a mature way with a man who loves her while Sakura is having a childish crush on someone who despises and abuses her for most of the story. See what I mean? By clumsily pointing out the similarities, they made the differences more obvious than they would otherwise be.
 
With Naruto, nearly everyone is just like him. Too many elements are shared between him and nearly every foe. You could almost say that he lives in a world of Narutos.
Yep. Off the top of my head, Orochimaru is the major villain least like him, and talk-no-jutsu never actually worked to defeat him. He just sort of gave up on being a villain because Naruto was so successful, and instead was content to just watch everything from the sidelines because he can't really die.

I wonder if part of the problem is that Naruto also never really kills anyone, so the villains he beats have to be people he can talk down?
 
Yep. Off the top of my head, Orochimaru is the major villain least like him, and talk-no-jutsu never actually worked to defeat him. He just sort of gave up on being a villain because Naruto was so successful, and instead was content to just watch everything from the sidelines because he can't really die.
And Naruto never really goes up against someone who is too little like him. Every time he does, it is either a smaller clash and/or he fights with a team of others. He never does it solo or if he does, it is only for a short time. Here are the fights (tell me if I am missing a fight):

Team 7 vs Sound Ninja = team battle
Team 7 vs Akatsuki (Kazekage Rescue Arc) = team battle (though you can argue that Deidara is similar to Naruto as both are hotheads with a rivalry against an Uchiha teammate)
Team 7 vs Orochimaru = kind of a team battle but Naruto is the only one that matters. More importantly, it is a smaller clash.
Konoha vs Immortal Combo = basically a raid battle. Naruto barely appears to fight Kakuzu and thus it counts as both a team battle and as a smaller clash.
World vs Obito, Madara, Kabuto, Ten-Tails and their mook zombies and mook plants = war. Also, I feel Obito and Kabuto are also very similar to Naruto.
Team 7 vs Kaguya and BZ = team battle.

Naruto never fights someone who is too dissimilar for long and/or alone. It is insane when you notice it.
 
I feel Obito and Kabuto are also very similar to Naruto.
They are, especially Obito. Which is why Obito dies a hero's death and Kabuto doesn't die at all.

Conversely, think of the major villains he doesn't defeat. Kakuzu - actually killed by Kakashi, even though the rasenshruiken should've have shredded him. Hidan - killed by Shikamaru. Deidara - killed himself. Sasori - killed by Chiyo. Kisame - killed himself. Itachi - killed himself via Sasuke. Danzo - killed himself. Konan - killed by Obito after switching sides. Madara - killed by Kaguya.

Interestingly, this also means that Sakura and even Sasuke aren't very good at killing. Sakura's closest call against a major villain is Sasori, but Chiyo gets the credit after Sakura impaled herself to save the old battleaxe. Sasuke managed to three times get villains to kill themselves, although one was deliberate.
 
Interestingly, this also means that Sakura and even Sasuke aren't very good at killing. Sakura's closest call against a major villain is Sasori, but Chiyo gets the credit after Sakura impaled herself to save the old battleaxe. Sasuke managed to three times get villains to kill themselves, although one was deliberate.
The OG Naruto world was presented as a much grittier manga. A story where both adults and kids die. A place where magical assassins were trained since before they could write. Feels defanged. You cannot start with THAT and end with THIS! I get that we wanted a better world where people live happy and with less murder but this is pretending the original atmosphere did not exist.
 
Speaking of being a grittier manga, people seem to like to gloss over the fact that Konoha is essentially a military dictatorship and that a Hokage is basically a dictator of sorts serving a feudal lord who orders assassinations and stuff. I've seen fanfic writers try to sugarcoat this by adding stuff to make Konoha look more like a democracy, even though in reality it's probably a kinder North Korea.
 
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Speaking of being a grittier manga, people seem to like to gloss over the fact that Konoha is essentially a military dictatorship and that a Hokage is basically a dictator of sorts serving a feudal lord who orders assassinations and stuff. I've seen fanfic writers try to sugarcoat this by adding stuff to make Konoha look more like a democracy, even though in reality it's probably a kinder North Korea.
It gets worse. The Kage and Hidden Village System is meant to create a secret base filled with black ops specialists whose contact with the outside world is limited to their work (those that they protect as bodyguards, spy on as spies and assassinate as asssassins). After the retcon, that changes. The Ninjas are the main fighting force of their countries, reach celebrity status and engage in major conflicts like World Wars. The story is less consistent as it goes on. Retcons ruin a story if mishandled.

And do not forget: As bad as the dictatorship in Konoha is, the other villages have the same system with half the competency.
 
New chapter drop. Let's goooo.

Boruto 15 has dropped and it's another weird transitional chapter. I'll get to more of what I mean on this but it's pretty straight forward.

We open the chapter with a recap of Gaara vs. Moegi. Gaara seals away Shinki and his friends to save them from Moegi. She tells him they're not the ones she's after anyway and she'll happily let them go if Gaara surrenders. Which he does, and she even keeps up her end of the deal. Shinki won't let this stand and breaks free and saves Gaara but gets turned into a tree as a result. He sealed Gaara away in his iron sand, saving his life but also trapping him, and Gaara can't get help as only Shinki can free him.

We cut back to Kankuro and Shikamaru. He asks Shikamaru to keep this from Temari so she doesn't worry. He reluctantly agrees. He also asks Sarada if she sees Boruto to tell him to come talk to him. He's just interested in his intel to Sarada's surprise.

We then cut to Shinki, now Ryu awakening as a tree. Jura asks him to look into his heart and pick his target, and he chooses Gaara. Ryu has some attitude on him and his sand forms an arm that immediately grabs Code who was hiding. Code demands to know why the trees aren't eating Ootsutsuki or going after them and does the whole "he's in charge" schitck. They acknowledge him as their creator but quickly put Code in his place. Jura wonders what would happen if one of them ate the fruit from a Divine Tree. Jura mocks Code and says he'll give him a new purpose since he seems empty. He tasks Code with killing Boruto and if he's successful, he'll allow him to have the fruit. Ryu hates Code and wants to kill him but they have bigger fish to fry at the moment. On a side note, we get a big panel of his design. Which for some reason sports a midriff with pants with the top notch unbuttoned for some reason....Is he wearing pants? Are those pants? Why was he born with pants on?

Next we jump to Boruto. He's sitting on Naruto's head in Konoha, which is totally what you do when you're being headhunted by the entire village. What was he doing up here anyway? Is he deliberately just brooding? Kawaki shows up and asks why Boruto didn't tell anyone about him. He states that while some would believe him, half wouldn't and it'd cause too much confusion and disarray. Konoha is functioning as it is now and it's better to leave it that way even if he's a rogue ninja. Kawaki mentions that Boruto can't control his Karma yet and that means Momoshiki isn't dealt with. Boruto confirms that he's been feeling that loss of control feeling ever since him and Sasuke fought Code. He hasn't used his Karma since and Momoshiki has been silent for the past 3 years but the feeling hasn't gone away. I'm guessing that the interaction with the Claw Grimes and trees is helping Momoshiki recouperate his strength. He says if he uses Karma, he might re-emerge. Kawaki is pissed and says the situation hasn't gotten any better. Boruto tells him that the Divine Trees aren't ordinary enemies, especially Jura. He tells Kawaki that he'll need his help to deal with them and he'll need to be stronger. If Momoshiki comes out, he can feel free to kill Boruto. He says Amado has been limiting Kawaki's power. His offensive abilities have been limited and defensive and regenerative pushed past their limits. How and when he did this is anyone's guess. Apparently Amado still has his own goals. We cut to Amado who pieces together that Kashin Koji is still alive. But he has no idea what he's up to. Kawaki agrees to partner with Boruto and we've reached a truce for now.

This is one of those strange transitional chapters for the upcoming arc but it feels more like we're just getting primed for the next fight sequence. I'm guessing next will be Code's last stand. I'm glad we're getting a bit of a breather and the arc is moving somewhere but the reality is a lot hasn't been changed. Boruto is on somewhat okay terms with everyone. However, it feels like we're just being shuffled from fight to fight scene. There's no real tension or stakes raising. It's not like there's anything other than "Kill these guys" going on under the hood and that's just not a story to me. There's not really a Hero's Journey going on here. We've pretty much dropped the idea of Shinobi entirely. Our goal has become Kill Jura when to be honest, he seems like a guy you could almost reason with. This chapter is a set up chapter but we're not really getting setup for anything good.
 
I could fucking swear that they're just recycling the old crap with a few shiny new decorations.
I mean, again this is all across a few days. There's no time skip or time progression. Kawaki's going to suddenly become Uber Tier alongside Boruto over the next 20 pages. Code will get his ass kicked for (probably) the last time. Maybe he'll flip sides. Probably not. I don't know. Honestly, I just don't really care about any of the characters here. Like who am I supposed to feel for here? I'm not invested in Boruto, he's too busy being 2edge3me broody Batman style hero when he's really not even an active agent in his own story. When you think about it, he's just fighting against an already written future. Who knows whether his choices in it even actually matter. The story tries way too hard to make him seem cool, but he doesn't really actually do anything all that impressive to back that up. Uzuhiko is a nothing burger and a visually lame move, no matter what the Borutards say. I'm sorry, but Uzuhiko will NEVER be cool. His personality almost comes off as depressive on top of that, it doesn't really come off as confident. He's not really moving with any plan in mind. So his goal is hard to get behind because it's very nebulous.

I don't feel invested in Kawaki. He's been nothing but a little shit for the past 40-50 chapters. He's an absolute fucking douchebag to everyone around him to an infuriating degree. I can't even call him an effective anti-villain because any time he tries to do something, he gets bitch slapped by a gentle breeze. There's nothing redeeming about Kawaki at all. The problem is Kawaki needed a hard slap in the face from life a long time ago and nobody ever gave him one. Except that one time Hinata did, but it should've been harder.

I don't feel invested in Sarada. She's virtually gone from the story. She fought Hidari and anything virtually interesting she could've gotten involved in, simply didn't happen. She did nothing during her time away from Boruto to help solve any of their problems. She's had chances to do interesting things but it just never formulated. Maybe she'll have an arc later, but the latest chapter seems like she's not getting screentime for a little bit.

So....yeah, our main 3 heroes are virtually nothingburgers I just have a hard time sympathizing for or with. Our villains are blank slates that were literally born yesterday. There's just nothing to get invested in. A good way around this is to use the characters I am invested in but the story likes to pretend they don't exist.
 
Nothing like being reminded of the fact that the main villain is a joke by having him be beaten by his creation THAT IS OPENLY PLOTTING AGAINST HIM RIGHT IN HIS FACE! Code is a joke! I thought Dragonball taught mad scientists to make sure that nothing they make is stronger than themselves but apparently it did not stick. Noblesse did take that lesson to heart at least.

Kawaki is also a failure as a character. He switched lives with Boruto in order to kill him and have Naruto not be too heartbroken but he is planning on killing himself anyway which defeats the purpose. At least he is not a hypocrite in that regard.

Also, gotta love Shiki. In his attempt to save Gaara, ended up giving them both himself AND Gaara (with some delay).

On top of that, the most threatening group of villains is a bunch of plants with no history that were literally born yesterday in some cases. Would it not be better to make them enhanced humans that absorbed techniques from those they absorbed? And enhance Code too. Have him give himself the most hax abilities to keep the others in check. And a kill switch that activates with his mind.

Makes me wonder what was the point of this whole Omnipotence asspull if Boruto and Kawaki are just gonna join forces anyway.
There was no point for Omnipotence to be used when a typical frame-up could do the job better and would cause less problems long term.
 
Makes me wonder what was the point of this whole Omnipotence asspull if Boruto and Kawaki are just gonna join forces anyway.
It's because in the earlier chapters they had to retcon how Omnipotence works about 3-4 times before finally getting a full on idea in place. There's even a point where they say people would rather believe their memories over physical evidence. It's a messy mechanic they've wanted to get away from. Every time it came up, it was basically bringing the story to a dead halt.

Omnipotence could've been interesting. They shouldn't have started with Boruto returning though. They should've started with Sarada and her gang doing....actual ninja things to scope out how Omnipotence works. Maybe Kawaki held heavy surveillance over the village to make sure Omnipotence is working. Let his paranoia and Sarada sneaking around drive tension. Make it a cat and mouse game for this first arc before Boruto's return.

On top of that, the most threatening group of villains is a bunch of plants with no history that were literally born yesterday in some cases. Would it not be better to make them enhanced humans that absorbed techniques from those they absorbed? And enhance Code too. Have him give himself the most hax abilities to keep the others in check. And a kill switch that activates with his mind.
Code was already enhanced when he was given...well his literal Code. He did have the most hax abilities to keep others in check. This lasted for all of 3 chapters before he gets bitch slapped mind you, but still. For a very brief period Code was on top.

The only good thing Boruto ever had going for it was towards the end, the villain factions of Kawaki, Amado, Eida, and Code all had their own goals they were working towards. None of them had the same objectives and some directly conflicted with each other. It was a fun dynamic for the little bit it lasted. We didn't really have feuding villain factions in OG Naruto. Amado wanted to resurrect his daughter, Eida wanted Kawaki, Kawaki wanted to end all Ootsutsuki including himself, and Code wanted his full strength back and to devour Ootsutsuki and get the fruit. It wasn't a lot but it went a long way to make these villains at least somewhat interesting.
 
don't feel invested in Sarada. She's virtually gone from the story.
Like single mother, like daughter.
don't feel invested in Kawaki. He's been nothing but a little shit for the past 40-50 chapters. He's an absolute fucking douchebag to everyone around him to an infuriating degree
Like Sasuke before

The Spiral of Stupidity™️ spins on
 
Omnipotence could've been interesting. They shouldn't have started with Boruto returning though. They should've started with Sarada and her gang doing....actual ninja things to scope out how Omnipotence works. Maybe Kawaki held heavy surveillance over the village to make sure Omnipotence is working. Let his paranoia and Sarada sneaking around drive tension. Make it a cat and mouse game for this first arc before Boruto's return.
Good idea if not for the fact that such settings are beyond their capabilities to write. Not to mention that actual ninja work has long since stopped being part of the story.

Code was already enhanced when he was given...well his literal Code. He did have the most hax abilities to keep others in check. This lasted for all of 3 chapters before he gets bitch slapped mind you, but still. For a very brief period Code was on top.
That is my point. If the hax villain is no longer hax, then you do not have a hax villain anymore. Code is the Pain of Boruto. He has no right to be weaker than his underlings.

The only good thing Boruto ever had going for it was towards the end, the villain factions of Kawaki, Amado, Eida, and Code all had their own goals they were working towards. None of them had the same objectives and some directly conflicted with each other. It was a fun dynamic for the little bit it lasted. We didn't really have feuding villain factions in OG Naruto. Amado wanted to resurrect his daughter, Eida wanted Kawaki, Kawaki wanted to end all Ootsutsuki including himself, and Code wanted his full strength back and to devour Ootsutsuki and get the fruit. It wasn't a lot but it went a long way to make these villains at least somewhat interesting.
We kinda did. The villages were at each other's throats and Orochimaru was fighting everyone, including the Akatsuki who were also fighting everyone. Still, it takes someone really good (like Oda) to balance such a Game of Thrones-esque conflict. Not even GRRM could do it.
 
That is my point. If the hax villain is no longer hax, then you do not have a hax villain anymore. Code is the Pain of Boruto. He has no right to be weaker than his underlings.
I don't think Code has successfully done anything since his introduction. Him and Kawaki are both awful villains to a pathetic level.
 
Their first mistake was trying to one up the power levels of the end of Shippuden, instead of scaling things back.
The power levels were already an absolute mess by the time shit like all the Sharingan hax was introduced, doubling down on that made things even less believable.

Am i supposed to believe Boruto, a 10 year old, is already God/Ootsosuki level? That is so dumb and they had to introduce even more hax to try to make this make sense. Karma's entire purpose was just to power creep Boruto.

And some of the stuff introduced is so ridiculous it's fourth wall breaking, i literally couldn't believe my eyes when i saw them introduce Omnipotence. It's literally Deus Ex Machina the power.

If they dialed things back they could have made the fights tactical and grounded again like in Part 1, which would have made the series much more popular since people dislike the DBZ style fights of late Shippuden.
 
I don't think Code has successfully done anything since his introduction. Him and Kawaki are both awful villains to a pathetic level.
And yet here he is, being the main villain (or at least pretending to be). There is this archetype about being a villain that starts weak but grows strong as time goes by. Code is not such a character. He is lesser than his own creations in every way possible. Kawaki is not a good rival either. All the nuance of the OG Naruto has been lost.

Am i supposed to believe Boruto, a 10 year old, is already God/Ootsosuki level? That is so dumb and they had to introduce even more hax to try to make this make sense. Karma's entire purpose was just to power creep Boruto.
Boruto is a teenager right now. There was a time-skip.

If they dialed things back they could have made the fights tactical and grounded again like in Part 1, which would have made the series much more popular since people dislike the DBZ style fights of late Shippuden.
The problem is that Kishimoto cannot fathom how non-DBZ fights can escalate in threat. Naruto became indistinguishable from Dragon Ball after a point and lost its identity.
 
This general's opinions on adult Naruto's voice? I personally don't have much of a problem with it, but I've heard some people complain that it sounds like a muted version of kid Naruto and doesn't fit a 30 year old man. I think the Korean dub took this into account by giving his adult self a deeper voice. Voices have always been a mess in Naruto so this never really bothered me that much.
 
Well, Ch.16 is out. Here we go.

We open with a cover of Eida, sporting a yellow top this time. There's not much to say here, it's a nice cover, although it reminds me more of a Vogue magazine than a manga about aliens and wizards.

The first section of our story is something surprising. Flashbacks have consistently been the best parts of this story and were once again getting one. Boruto is sitting with Kashin Koji and he's going over Space-time ninjustu with him. He explains that in the future, Boruto learns to harness an Ootsutsuki version of this ability. By directly imbuing his chakra into metal objects, he can teleport to them. Future Boruto names this technique Flying Raijin, after his grandfather's Flying Thunder God. By focusing on these metal objects, he can teleport. The technique is easier when it's in his direct line of sight. However, teleporting to objects further away is much more difficult. Interestingly, this ability is not a true Flying Thunder God, which utilizes Minato's markings upon an object. It seems to be limited to metal objects. He also can't distinct one object from another. So, he came up with the idea of using symbols to help focus on where he wants to go. These are the metal symbols see on Boruto's clothes.

......I'm genuinely floored. They actually gave a reason for Boruto's over designed bullshit. They didn't have to do this. They went out of their way to. Arguably, this has nothing to do with the rest of the chapter. They actually went out of their way to describe Boruto's version of Flying Raijin and tied it in with all those accessories he wears for seemingly no reason. Sure, it doesn't salvage any of this. But I'm shocked we even got an explanation for these things. What a twist, an actually good first few pages. And then we ruin it by Boruto instantly learning to teleport immediately after he's told about it...Whatever, I'm taking the win where I can get it.

Next set of panels is where it gets a little stupid. Boruto asks Kashin Koji why they don't just tell everyone they know about the future. Koji says the more people who know about it, the harder it is to contain. If too many people know about the future, they won't act the same. "Singularity of Fates" ie, people who know many futures and exist outside of time, like Koji and Boruto need to act from the shadows. Too many people knowing the future make it uncontrollable and you lose the advantage of knowing the future. Which....is absolutely retarded. I can get where he's coming from, but seriously, couldn't say....Moegi know? Or Shinki? Maybe going "Hey guys don't get hit by Claw Grimes and turn into trees that destroy the world" wouldn't be too much to ask for. Sure it's an explanation, but it's a dumb explanation. Surely a third person knowing wouldn't hurt. I'm positive that's eventually where this story will go anyway. Bottom line is, act alone from shadows, Boruto. Be Batman.

Koji ends the flashback by telling Boruto that like him, he is a singularity outside of time now, and so is Eida, who will eventually see this conversation. We switch to Eida who's been watching this flashback in real time. Great transition by the way, we're on a roll today. Then we get something unexpected. Teen drama. Eida is sitting with Sarada and Sumire and tells them Boruto isn't saying much to avoid endangering the two of them. Sarada wants to help because Boruto is doing everything himself. However, Sumire asks her if she's ever thought of what Boruto wanted. Boruto hasn't involved them so he doesn't want them to know and maybe what Boruto wants them to do is not chase after him. Sarada says he nearly got killed, he needs help. Sumire says it's possible he got hurt only because they were there. She suggests Boruto probably doesn't like keeping things from them and to think of his feelings and pain, and hers. She pivots to how Sarada leapt at Boruto and hugged him despite knowing how Sumire feels about him. Sumire tries to be respectful of her feelings, why isn't Sarada respectful of hers. Eida thinks to herself that this is so awkward and tense, but the drama is fun. She gets contacted by Shikamaru to meet with him. Sumire storms out in a fit.

We cut to Eida and Shikamaru. She informs him on the situation in the sand village. There's a fifth Divine Tree named Ryu made from Shinki and he's after Gaara. This info is from hours ago though, as Bug can peer into her vision in real time and she now only view the past. She will not use her powers in real time anymore. She thanks him for aiding Boruto's escape. Shikamaru demands to know if Kashin Koji is the one helping Boruto. A toad pops out and confirms this for him. He tells him to send a team of Mitsuki, Konohamaru, and Sarada to the Sand Village to kill some Trees. Also, he says not to let Himawari out of the village under any circumstances. She's been targeted by Jura. However, Jura apparently actually likes Konoha and will not destroy the village itself. He tells Shikamaru that to tell store owners if he shows up in a book store, they should just treat him as a normal customer. Shikamaru is dumbfounded by this, but the road says it's vital they don't piss off Jura. The toad thanks him for aiding Boruto's escape and tells him to follow his heart and make a good future. Our final scene sends us to the Sand Village, Konohamaru's team spots Shinki and Moegi and are ready to engage.

Overall, not a bad chapter. We got character moments which was nice. I can't get over how much EVERYTHING revolves around Boruto but it's still not a bad chapter. The Singularity stuff is dumb and only made dumber because I know we're inevitably heading towards everyone knowing Kashin Koji can see the future and others knowing it. The art during the Sumire argument is a little awkward. The teen drama in general is weird, but fuck it we're in a drought for character development and I'm taking what I can get. Overall, I think this might be the first Boruto chapter with more pluses than minuses., Sure we're 16 chapters in that are 40 pages each and that's longer than a Harry Potter book, but fuck it I'm going to give out my first official "Good Job Kishi/Ikemoto".

This general's opinions on adult Naruto's voice?
On a side note, I hate all of Naruto's dubbed voices. They sound like he has lung cancer.
 
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