Naruto/Boruto Griefing Thread

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Predictably, Cassius is already reaching with the loose logic. This seems to be an overarching problem with the Naruto fandom. A lot of them are; admittedly, underachievers and quite plainly outcasts who project unto Naruto that he is this talentless no-name everyman. Relatable, likeable, and embodies commendable traits. Then, all of a sudden, they're hit with the revelation that he's actually a demigod that was destined to always succeed.

Something that they, realistically, cannot project on or relate to, so they make excuses, rationalizations and other mental gymnastics to try and explain away all of those things even though it's staring them right in the face, already reaching levels of cope that shouldn't be possible, but considering who and what they are, it's expected. No one, especially those born under less than ideal or unenviable circumstances, can relate to someone like Naruto on a fundamental scale. At least those who actually aren't desperate to cling to a lifeline that got them through life without self-minecrafting.

Naruto reads like something out of an insidious dystopia. It's propaganda designed to give children false hope that they can coast by on just believing things will turn out okay. And that they'll be bailed out by plot armor and conveniences. Or, that they're actually late bloomers themselves with hidden talent that just need the right catalyst. It's pretty disgusting when you think about it.
Your avatar is very appropriate for someone saying something as pants-on-head as this. I didn't begin to watch the series until it was mostly over, and I started near the end so I already knew about his powers and lineage. If you can't have a rational discussion about storytelling without immediately reaching for hyperbole about how different views must reflect the miserable lives of their readers, maybe you should get off the internet for a while.
 
I'm not saying it is, only that it feels like badly written propaganda, especially in the latter parts.

What does it say about Kishimoto's writing abilities that that's the kind of takeaway one could get about it?
Still stretching things quite a bit but I get it. The message of Naruto was lost.

Your avatar is very appropriate for someone saying something as pants-on-head as this. I didn't begin to watch the series until it was mostly over, and I started near the end so I already knew about his powers and lineage. If you can't have a rational discussion about storytelling without immediately reaching for hyperbole about how different views must reflect the miserable lives of their readers, maybe you should get off the internet for a while.
"No fighting in the War Room!"

Ok guys, do not take hyperbole too seriously. It was a bit of a "tongue and cheek" exaggeration. Mom and dad love you both.
 
No fighting
Just pressing the right buttons.

I'm actually reminded of what Plague of Gripes keeps saying about stories like this.

Paraphrasing, but it effectively translates to, "You're the main character. You're special. It's all about you. You're not a weak, spineless little maggot that won't amount to anything. You're actually destined for greatness. You're not gonna get pushed around. You're actually dangerous and people are gonna be sorry they fucked with you once you realize your full potential."

Like that.

God, even writing it out made my bones cringe. It's just unrealistic expectations on steroids. I mean, would you rather tell your kid the cold hard truth, or lead them on until the cops call you in involving an "incident"?
 
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Kishimoto just failed to realise that certain story elements do not go together very easily and it went on from there. As for the fans, most of them fail to realise that being Ninja Jesus does not feel very inline with Naruto 's prior characterisation and themes. In other words, they do not feel bad about the changes for they do not see them. Seriously, Naruto has a pretty good reception outside this thread.
I don't have a problem with Ninja Jesus because it contradicts previous ideas and themes. I can understand that. This is a long series and I get it. What bothers me about the Ninja Jesus bit is EVERYTHING AFTER. It would be fine if there was nothing after, but that's not the case. We have Boruto and the Last which now have to play around Naruto being Ninja Jesus. We also have to play around Sasuke being Ninja Jesus as well. This boiled over into such a massive problem that's caused endless problems ever since.

She helped continue the trend where women can abuse men physically and verbally with men being expected to take it. She has hurt her friend more than she hurt any enemy. Bad attitude all around. At least Hinata, for all her shyness, does not hurt those who love her.
Well this is when I would say it's just a cartoon and not real life and humor is humor. Time however has clearly proven that notion wrong. I never saw anything wrong with it. Often Naruto did deserve it. It's hard to call Naruto a victim when he eggs her on. That's just an anime trope and it's not dying anytime soon. At least she repays it by saving his life on multiple occasions.
 
When i was a teenager, Naruto was my favorite of the big 3. I really really liked the series up to the Pain Arc. And I thought the Kage Summit Arc was good too.

What killed my love for the series was the War Arc. It's seriously got to be one of the worst written arcs to any series i have ever seen, maybe even in all of fiction.
It feels like Kishimoto stopped giving a shit about trying to make anything make sense.

Nothing, literally NOTHING in this arc feels earned. It feels like characters get constant random powerups for no reason, and the power creep went through the roof.

Let's see:

- Kakashi, who always struggled with stamina issues, in the War Arc he can spam Kamui with no repercussions. He would pass out after firing a couple Kamuis before but now in the War Arc he's got unlimited chakra for some reason. Also for some reason he never goes blind even though he spammed the shit out of the Mangekyou.
- Naruto Tailed Beast Mode for some reason looks completely different from the other tailed beasts, and honestly looks kinda lame and a rip-off of Super Saiyan. The red V2 Cloak Beast Mode that every other Jinchuuriki has and he used before too looks much cooler.
And no it's not because he only has got half of the Nine Tails, cuz when he absorbs the rest from Minato he still looks different from the other Jinchuuriki.
- Speaking of Nine Tails, why is the Kyuubi so much stronger? Naruto can basically solo the other eight beasts on his own and he HAS GOT ONLY HALF THE CHAKRA OF THE NINE TAILS WTF The power creep makes no sense.
- Obito gets a Rinnegan and he never uses the Six Paths abilities. He says "It's useless since they already know how to counter them", what a stupid reason!
- Minato was able to master Kyuubi Mode while being DEAD.
This is so stupid. And it also makes Naruto struggle to tame the Nine Tails he went through the entire series completely pointless too.
- Madara can just do whatever the fuck he wants. Remember when you needed to do a transplant to get another person eyes? Madara can just take out your eye from the eyesocket, and put it in his eyesocket like a lightbulb, and it works instantly. Ok.
- Then he uses Susanoo without eyes. Wtf? Susanoo is a sharingan ability how in the fuck did he do that? If you don't need Sharingan to use and just need two Mangekyou to unlock it, then why did Sasuke go blind when spamming Susanoo during the Kage Summit?!
- Speaking of Susanoo... Why does the Sharingan have this stupid power? I mean why does an eye summon a suit of armor to fight for you? It makes no sense. You would expect an eye power to be vision related, what does this have to do with eyes? Amaterasu and Kamui are not much better... I think the only Mangekyou power that makes sense is Tsukuyomi/Kotoamatsukami at least those powers are actually vision based.
- Madara can solo the entire Shinobi Alliance and Nine Tailed Beasts... without having eyes. Uhhhhh ... Sure.
- First Hokage is now a GOD even though in Part 1 Kishi said the Third and Fourth Hokage were the strongest. "Every Generation is stronger than the last" my ass.
- I still have no idea why transplanting your sibling eyes makes you immune to blindness...
- Remember when Kakashi was given Double Mangekyou Sharingan + Perfect Susanoo from Obito from the FUCKIN AFTERLIFE AFTER HE DIED? What in the holy fuc... Not only you never told your readers you could transfer techniques like this but the guy even did the transfer from the AFTERLIFE !?
- Sage of Six Paths should have been just a legend, he never should have appeared and ruined all the mistique of the Ninja world.
- Not only that, he never should have gifted Jesus Mode to Naruto and Sasuke. What a lazy way to make your characters stronger, like i said, remember when characters had to train instead of using cheat codes? Nothing feels earned.
- Remember when Konoha 12 actually were strong? Good times. Now Naruto and Sasuke are basically Gods and everyone else in the verse is complete fodder, what a lame way to scale your powercreep.
- For some reason you can summon the Ten Tails even while lacking the full Chakra of the Eight and Nine Tails...
Okay... Okay... Then let me ask you a question...
WHAT THE FUC... WAS THE POINT OF THE WAR, OBITO? YOU ARE A MORON!
- Kaguya.

The writing in the finale of Naruto is so laughable it completely killed my interest in the series, and i used to love it.
Nowadays i just read what the latest batshit crazy asspull they added in Boruto and laugh, cuz they stopped trying to write anything plausible a long time ago.
 
Not only that, he never should have gifted Jesus Mode to Naruto and Sasuke. What a lazy way to make your characters stronger, like i said, remember when characters had to train instead of using cheat codes? Nothing feels earned
My favorite is how Hagoromo asks Sasuke what he's going to do and he literally gets told "Oh yeah I'ma kill everyone and make a new world". And he just goes "Okay, I got u fam. Here's God powers".
 
Just pressing the right buttons.

I'm actually reminded of what Plague of Gripes keeps saying about stories like this.

Paraphrasing, but it effectively translates to, "You're the main character. You're special. It's all about you. You're not a weak, spineless little maggot that won't amount to anything. You're actually destined for greatness. You're not gonna get pushed around. You're actually dangerous and people are gonna be sorry they fucked with you once you realize your full potential."

Like that.

God, even writing it out made my bones cringe. It's just unrealistic expectations on steroids. I mean, would you rather tell your kid the cold hard truth, or lead them on until the cops call you in involving an "incident"?
Well, the manga is named "Naruto" so of course we had the expectation that he would be the greatest ninja sooner or later. That does not mean that the execution was not botched. By having the prophecy and the reincarnation, it was almost as if they broke the forth wall and acknowledge that Naruto is the main character. We know that, no one else is supposed to know that, certainly not the characters.

I don't have a problem with Ninja Jesus because it contradicts previous ideas and themes. I can understand that. This is a long series and I get it. What bothers me about the Ninja Jesus bit is EVERYTHING AFTER. It would be fine if there was nothing after, but that's not the case. We have Boruto and the Last which now have to play around Naruto being Ninja Jesus. We also have to play around Sasuke being Ninja Jesus as well. This boiled over into such a massive problem that's caused endless problems ever since.
The Ninja Jesus is more of a hindsight problem. Retroactive. In my opinion, the sequel should have taken place a century after Naruto in order to have a bit of a blank slate. All the powerhouses would be gone and they would be part of the legendary past.

Well this is when I would say it's just a cartoon and not real life and humor is humor. Time however has clearly proven that notion wrong. I never saw anything wrong with it. Often Naruto did deserve it. It's hard to call Naruto a victim when he eggs her on. That's just an anime trope and it's not dying anytime soon. At least she repays it by saving his life on multiple occasions.
Naruto does occasionally deserve it sometimes but Sakura is criticising a man far more capable than her. She does not have a sit down, she just hits him even when she knows a lot of his attitude problems stem from his lack of a family. Also, regardless if one likes Sakura or Hinata more, Hinata is better for Naruto as she is kinder to him. Naruto spend his early years being a punching bag for the village 's anger even before he pulled pranks to annoy others. Why spent even more time being his wife 's abused spouse? He is fine where he is. Hinata might be underutilised but she has always been respectful and kind to Naruto.

When i was a teenager, Naruto was my favorite of the big 3. I really really liked the series up to the Pain Arc. And I thought the Kage Summit Arc was good too.

What killed my love for the series was the War Arc. It's seriously got to be one of the worst written arcs to any series i have ever seen, maybe even in all of fiction.
It feels like Kishimoto stopped giving a shit about trying to make anything make sense.

Nothing, literally NOTHING in this arc feels earned. It feels like characters get constant random powerups for no reason, and the power creep went through the roof.
I will address your points one by one:

- Kakashi, who always struggled with stamina issues, in the War Arc he can spam Kamui with no repercussions. He would pass out after firing a couple Kamuis before but now in the War Arc he's got unlimited chakra for some reason. Also for some reason he never goes blind even though he spammed the shit out of the Mangekyou.
His stamina issue was fixed temporarily when he was given Kurama 's chakra, before and after that, you are right, it makes no sense.

- Naruto Tailed Beast Mode for some reason looks completely different from the other tailed beasts, and honestly looks kinda lame and a rip-off of Super Saiyan. The red V2 Cloak Beast Mode that every other Jinchuuriki has and he used before too looks much cooler.
And no it's not because he only has got half of the Nine Tails, cuz when he absorbs the rest from Minato he still looks different from the other Jinchuuriki.
Kishimoto wanted yet another Super Saiyan homage. Also, notice how Gaara 's V1 and V2 Cloaks look different from every other Tailed Beasts '. If every TB had each own different looking version of V1 and V2 Cloaks, then there would be no problem. As things are, Kurama and Shukaku are outliers for no reason beyond "LAZY RETCON".

- Speaking of Nine Tails, why is the Kyuubi so much stronger? Naruto can basically solo the other eight beasts on his own and he HAS GOT ONLY HALF THE CHAKRA OF THE NINE TAILS WTF The power creep makes no sense.
Headcanon of mine: Kurama kept eating his pursuers and assimilated their chakra.

- Obito gets a Rinnegan and he never uses the Six Paths abilities. He says "It's useless since they already know how to counter them", what a stupid reason!
Stupid indeed. Naruto barely managed to counter them. Everyone else was nearly helpless. Plus, he had six TBs providing back up. We were shown this was not true when Nagato and Itachi alone were enough to capture Naruto. The Six Paths are powerful, certainly more powerful than the Fire Style he was using. Not to mention that Kamui could have been used to cover up the weaknesses of the Six Paths.

- Minato was able to master Kyuubi Mode while being DEAD.
This is so stupid. And it also makes Naruto struggle to tame the Nine Tails he went through the entire series completely pointless too.
We are not explicitly shown but the stomach of the Shinigami might be a short of seperate dimmension that allowed Minato to communicate with the good half of Kurama for 18 years and tame him. But yeah, it could have been explained better.

- Madara can just do whatever the fuck he wants. Remember when you needed to do a transplant to get another person eyes? Madara can just take out your eye from the eyesocket, and put it in his eyesocket like a lightbulb, and it works instantly. Ok.
I do not get that either. Eyes are such a sensitive organ. Is it the Hashirama cells again?

- Then he uses Susanoo without eyes. Wtf? Susanoo is a sharingan ability how in the fuck did he do that? If you don't need Sharingan to use and just need two Mangekyou to unlock it, then why did Sasuke go blind when spamming Susanoo during the Kage Summit?!
Either a retcon or the Hashirama cells again. Also, your eyes cannot go blind if you do not have them anymore.

- Speaking of Susanoo... Why does the Sharingan have this stupid power? I mean why does an eye summon a suit of armor to fight for you? It makes no sense. You would expect an eye power to be vision related, what does this have to do with eyes? Amaterasu and Kamui are not much better... I think the only Mangekyou power that makes sense is Tsukuyomi/Kotoamatsukami at least those powers are actually vision based.
When it comes to the Susanoo, Kishimoto likes Kaiju battles. He had confirmed that he wanted a kaiju battle for a finale. As for the other abilities, in Greek Mythology (as well as the culture that were affected by the Greeks and the Romans), there is an association between eye related powers and descendants of sun gods. Example: Medea, granddaughter of the sun god Helios was known for her occular powers. She could kill, torture and burn things according to her will by looking at them. Maybe Kishi was influenced by that myth?

- Madara can solo the entire Shinobi Alliance and Nine Tailed Beasts... without having eyes. Uhhhhh ... Sure.
Yeah, I got nothing. He should not be that powerful even with Hashirama cells.

- First Hokage is now a GOD even though in Part 1 Kishi said the Third and Fourth Hokage were the strongest. "Every Generation is stronger than the last" my ass.
I have said this before but I will say it again: Naruto betrays its themes with its retcons.

- I still have no idea why transplanting your sibling eyes makes you immune to blindness...
The best theory I have heard is the the process is less transplant and more of a fusion.

- Remember when Kakashi was given Double Mangekyou Sharingan + Perfect Susanoo from Obito from the FUCKIN AFTERLIFE AFTER HE DIED? What in the holy fuc... Not only you never told your readers you could transfer techniques like this but the guy even did the transfer from the AFTERLIFE !?
This MS pair has the ability to cross dimensions through Kamui. But you are right, it should have been Armored Susanoo, not Perfect Susanoo. Kishi is playing fast and loose with his story.

- Sage of Six Paths should have been just a legend, he never should have appeared and ruined all the mistique of the Ninja world.
Legend or not, he is someone who had died in the distant past. Him appearing like that is blatant Deus ex Machina.

- Not only that, he never should have gifted Jesus Mode to Naruto and Sasuke. What a lazy way to make your characters stronger, like i said, remember when characters had to train instead of using cheat codes? Nothing feels earned.
Too true. Just give them a weakness like "it takes some time to get used to it before you can unleash the full potential" or whatever.

- Remember when Konoha 12 actually were strong? Good times. Now Naruto and Sasuke are basically Gods and everyone else in the verse is complete fodder, what a lame way to scale your powercreep.
Worse powercreep than Dragonball.

- For some reason you can summon the Ten Tails even while lacking the full Chakra of the Eight and Nine Tails...
Okay... Okay... Then let me ask you a question...
I suppose it makes some sense: He could not bring 9 and 8 to the statue so he brought the statue to them and had them hit it with chakra blasts. After that, the 10 Tails could recover its strength albeit at slower speeds than it would with the actual 8 and 9 TBs absorbed. When life gives you lemons...

WHAT THE FUC... WAS THE POINT OF THE WAR, OBITO? YOU ARE A MORON!
To draw out the 9 and 8 while weakening the rest of the ninjas.

- Kaguya.
She could have worked a bit better if she was more tied to the narrative: Madara, in his quest for further power, absorbed the tree into himself. That served as the final step required for Kaguya to begin taking over his body as being the 10 Tails made him the perfect vessel for her. That way, we are reminded that the mindless quest for power is dangerous and self-destructive. None of that Black Zetsu bullshit.

My favorite is how Hagoromo asks Sasuke what he's going to do and he literally gets told "Oh yeah I'ma kill everyone and make a new world". And he just goes "Okay, I got u fam. Here's God powers".
I get that Hagoromo was kinda desperate but you are right, it was a gamble. Maybe he placed faith in Naruto, as the new Asura, to win when time came? Still, a gamble.
 
Also forgot to mention the way Sasuke was written in the War Arc is really really sloppy.

I was actually really liking Evil Sasuke in the Kage Summit Arc, and i thought it would have been an interesting setup for the final battle. Especially because Sasuke was not completely in the wrong, the Leaf Village people ARE scumbags and should pay.

Then in the War Arc he talks with Itachi, Itachi tells him basically the same thing that Tobi did (so he learns nothing new) and changes idea.

The Hokage also don't tell him much that warrants him changing idea. They just tell him "Konoha was always shit and the Uchiha were mistreated"

Then he spends the rest of the War Arc flip flopping between "I'm good again now, and i will become an Hokage to redeem the village" and "Fuck you Naruto only helping you to defeat Madara but once war is over i'm taking over by force".
Makes him look like a bipolar psycho. Not to mention the Sage of Six Paths looks like an asshole because he powered up Sasuke even when he knew he would try to become Ninja Hitler.

It makes the setup of the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke look so flimsy. I literally lol'ed when Sasuke and Naruto defeated Madara then Sasuke said "Okay now it's my turn" and he went evil again for a stupid reason.

What was the plan here again? Sasuke becoming Ninja Hitler so everyone would focus their hate on him and war would be over because everyone would be under his dictatorship... So convoluted.

It's like you could see Kishimoto say "ah yeah i promised there would be a final battle between Naruto and Sasuke fuck... Let me fix this real quick" and he came up with this stupid revolution shit at the last second lol.

Make Sasuke Evil or make him return to the good side! Don't make him be both!
 
Hinata might be underutilised but she has always been respectful and kind to Naruto.
Underutilized is too kind of a word. The vase from fucking Boruto is more fucking important than Hinata is. The reality is, Hinata has entire scenes in Boruto where she's not just a background character, she's literally fucking background. She'll have entire scenes in her own God damn kitchen and she's standing right there and says nothing......I'm sorry, maybe it's because nobody read Boruto but that manga didn't just make me dislike Hinata, it made me outright hate her.
 
If Boruto had been a slice-of-life series in a peaceful world it would have been infinitely better. Kishimoto came up with a million characters with interesting designs that can be explored and most of them survived the war. Why does the world have to plunged into a new, bigger catastrophe so quickly? Have some fun!

I don't think even a century is enough gap if they wanted to do big epic fights again and have it not be ridiculous. Give it centuries. Let Kishomoto combine it with his desire to do sci-fi.

Of course the War Arc already showed that the sense of time scale is absurd already. Three days!
 
Then in the War Arc he talks with Itachi, Itachi tells him basically the same thing that Tobi did (so he learns nothing new) and changes idea.
I like Sasuke in general, especially in the war arc so I'll speak on it. Basically by the time Evil Sasuke talked with Itachi, he gained a bit of perspective. All of this stuff happened when Sasuke was too little to remember and understand. However, hearing it from Itachi's mouth made him understand that Itachi while a victim of some circumstances, he made these decisions all on his own. He had a lot more agency in all of this than I think Sasuke thought he did. Up until now, it seems like Sasuke was painting Itachi as a victim of the Hidden Leaf's elders. However, finding out he willingly was bending over backwards to protect the village at all costs, made it seem that things weren't that simple. The question he was asking himself by the end was why Itachi bent over backwards for these ass holes.

The Hokage also don't tell him much that warrants him changing idea. They just tell him "Konoha was always shit and the Uchiha were mistreated"
The whole point that I think people miss with Hashirama's story, is that the world before the Hidden Leaf Village was a much, much worse place than it is currently where children were dying on the battlefield left and right. Hashirama and Madara who were both victims of those circumstances, wanted to make a better world. Before those two, the world they knew was constant strife and killing. The world was actually a better place after the Village System was adopted. Yes, Konoha and it's Elders absolutely fucking suck and the Uchiha got fucked over, however the idea of the Village System was worth protecting because it protected people. No longer were kids dying left and right (except when they were sent to the battlefield anyway but that's neither here nor there). Future generations no longer had an average lifespan of 12 years old, basically. Itachi wanted to protect that ideal. Especially since he too had a little brother at the time. Civil war was not something he wanted Sasuke to face. Sasuke doesn't really get it, but he gets some of the sentiment and chooses to make a new world at the end of their talk, which can't be done if the world is destroyed.

On a side note, this does go back to what Asuma referred to as the King with Shikamaru. He was talking about future generations being the whole point of the Leaf Village existing. So it's not like this notion came out of left field.

It's like you could see Kishimoto say "ah yeah i promised there would be a final battle between Naruto and Sasuke fuck... Let me fix this real quick" and he came up with this stupid revolution shit at the last second lol.
I had the same reaction actually. I laughed and found it hilarious. It's not out of nowhere per se, but it was hilariously rushed. Kurama gets kidnapped along with the tailed beasts. He gives Hagoromo a middle finger. He stabs Sakura and knocks her out. Then he's like "Okay, it's literally just you and me Naruto. Let's go." He really didn't have a plan for any of this.
 
Underutilized is too kind of a word. The vase from fucking Boruto is more fucking important than Hinata is. The reality is, Hinata has entire scenes in Boruto where she's not just a background character, she's literally fucking background. She'll have entire scenes in her own God damn kitchen and she's standing right there and says nothing......I'm sorry, maybe it's because nobody read Boruto but that manga didn't just make me dislike Hinata, it made me outright hate her.
I think you have some misdirected hatred towards her. Hinata was just a background character but that is more on the writers. With Sakura, they tried to make her likeable but failed while with Hinata, they did not even try. I feel more sad for her than angry. What is there to hate? She was shy and kind in Naruto and in the background in Boruto. The story failed her. I see her as very inoffensive and boring (more so than she has the right to be) but both to her detriment and benefit. Sakura is either loved or hated (mostly hated). Hinata is liked, disliked, pitied or ignored. Overall, I am happy that Hinata ended up with Naruto because she is nicer to be around and Naruto deserves it.

I was actually really liking Evil Sasuke in the Kage Summit Arc, and i thought it would have been an interesting setup for the final battle. Especially because Sasuke was not completely in the wrong, the Leaf Village people ARE scumbags and should pay.

Then in the War Arc he talks with Itachi, Itachi tells him basically the same thing that Tobi did (so he learns nothing new) and changes idea.
I like Sasuke in general, especially in the war arc so I'll speak on it. Basically by the time Evil Sasuke talked with Itachi, he gained a bit of perspective. All of this stuff happened when Sasuke was too little to remember and understand. However, hearing it from Itachi's mouth made him understand that Itachi while a victim of some circumstances, he made these decisions all on his own. He had a lot more agency in all of this than I think Sasuke thought he did. Up until now, it seems like Sasuke was painting Itachi as a victim of the Hidden Leaf's elders. However, finding out he willingly was bending over backwards to protect the village at all costs, made it seem that things weren't that simple. The question he was asking himself by the end was why Itachi bent over backwards for these ass holes.
There is a huge difference in fighting and dying for your country and its people (though these people are hardly worth defending considering their treatment of Naruto, the Uchiha and the White Fang) and fighting and dying for the guys in charge to get richer. Anyway, reminder that Hiruzen and his friends are responsible for 4/5s of Konoha 's problems.

The Hokage also don't tell him much that warrants him changing idea. They just tell him "Konoha was always shit and the Uchiha were mistreated"
The whole point that I think people miss with Hashirama's story, is that the world before the Hidden Leaf Village was a much, much worse place than it is currently where children were dying on the battlefield left and right. Hashirama and Madara who were both victims of those circumstances, wanted to make a better world. Before those two, the world they knew was constant strife and killing. The world was actually a better place after the Village System was adopted. Yes, Konoha and it's Elders absolutely fucking suck and the Uchiha got fucked over, however the idea of the Village System was worth protecting because it protected people. No longer were kids dying left and right (except when they were sent to the battlefield anyway but that's neither here nor there). Future generations no longer had an average lifespan of 12 years old, basically. Itachi wanted to protect that ideal. Especially since he too had a little brother at the time. Civil war was not something he wanted Sasuke to face. Sasuke doesn't really get it, but he gets some of the sentiment and chooses to make a new world at the end of their talk, which can't be done if the world is destroyed.

On a side note, this does go back to what Asuma referred to as the King with Shikamaru. He was talking about future generations being the whole point of the Leaf Village existing. So it's not like this notion came out of left field.
It is true that things improved with Hashirama and Madara founding the Village System. Itachi played the bad hand he was dealt with as best as he could. Tobirama and Hiruzen do owe an apology to Sasuke for creating the circumstances for the Uchiha massacre and they also owe an apology to Konoha and the rest of the world for Danzo being allowed to run around destabilising everything for his own gain.

Then he spends the rest of the War Arc flip flopping between "I'm good again now, and i will become an Hokage to redeem the village" and "Fuck you Naruto only helping you to defeat Madara but once war is over i'm taking over by force".
Makes him look like a bipolar psycho. Not to mention the Sage of Six Paths looks like an asshole because he powered up Sasuke even when he knew he would try to become Ninja Hitler.
Undiagnosed mental illness from all the untreated trauma. I can sympathise with that. He is flawed but he does want to do good. I wish it was better executed though. It feels like he was given a mental illness by accident instead of by design.

It makes the setup of the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke look so flimsy. I literally lol'ed when Sasuke and Naruto defeated Madara then Sasuke said "Okay now it's my turn" and he went evil again for a stupid reason.

What was the plan here again? Sasuke becoming Ninja Hitler so everyone would focus their hate on him and war would be over because everyone would be under his dictatorship... So convoluted.

It's like you could see Kishimoto say "ah yeah i promised there would be a final battle between Naruto and Sasuke fuck... Let me fix this real quick" and he came up with this stupid revolution shit at the last second lol.
I had the same reaction actually. I laughed and found it hilarious. It's not out of nowhere per se, but it was hilariously rushed. Kurama gets kidnapped along with the tailed beasts. He gives Hagoromo a middle finger. He stabs Sakura and knocks her out. Then he's like "Okay, it's literally just you and me Naruto. Let's go." He really didn't have a plan for any of this.
This is what I mean when I say that Kishimoto writes by the seat of his pants and that is his weakest point. He puts every idea that comes to mind in the story without taking into account past and future. He writes things that contradict what was already written and what he was planning to write and expecting his future self to untangle the spaggetti of plotpoints, elements and characters he shoved in without much thought or he expected the reader to care as little as he does.

Merphy Napier said it best when she said that she would revisit her favourite moments from the manga but she will NOT be doing a full re-read like she does with her favourite series.
 
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
Konoha has always been retarded and Naruto leads them.
Majority of the villains come from Konoha (Madara, Orochimaru, Itachi).
They knew about Naruto's birth parents and said nothing.
The only thing that matters in the Naruto world is "destiny" and "how useful you are". One moment you curse the Kyuubi on how evil it is, next you are using its chakra.
Naruto has always been shallow and can only empahise by being the same as him.
I always saw the writing on the wall in the Naruto vs Sasuke fight on the roof.
 
Konoha has always been retarded and Naruto leads them.
Truth.
Majority of the villains come from Konoha (Madara, Orochimaru, Itachi).
Fair. You forgot Kabuto and Obito. A lot of others are created by Konoha though (Nagato and the Akatsuki were created because of Danzo). Zabuza, Haku and their employer are the only villains not from or affected by Konoha. KIDDING! THEY WERE FUCKED OVER BY THE BLOODY MIST ERA CREATED BY MADARA! I HAD YOU! I FUCKING HAD YOU!

They knew about Naruto's birth parents and said nothing.
They did not know. But they should. That is the stupid part.

The only thing that matters in the Naruto world is "destiny" and "how useful you are". One moment you curse the Kyuubi on how evil it is, next you are using its chakra.
This is what I mean when I say that Naruto feels worse the more you look into it. This WAS NOT the intented message but it is the one we got.

Naruto has always been shallow and can only empahise by being the same as him.
I think that the problem is that too many enemies were ones he was meant to empathise with. Too many times he truly was up against someone similar to him. That is why the Talk-no-Jutsu worked. Good villains share elements with the hero. The best among them are almost dark reflections. Look at Batman 's Rogue Gallery: All of them reflect him to an extent: Joker is his antithesis, Two-Face is his dychotomy between Batman and Bruce Wayne as well as his need for an outlet for his rage, Bane is his physical strength and want to solve problems with his own hands even at the expense of his health, Mr Freeze represents his attachment to others, Scarecrow represents his methods of insiting fear upon others to get an upper hand, etc etc. With Naruto, nearly everyone is just like him. Too many elements are shared between him and nearly every foe. You could almost say that he lives in a world of Narutos.

I always saw the writing on the wall in the Naruto vs Sasuke fight on the roof.
What do you mean? Elaborate.

Holy fucking shit, really?! I mean, I could have sworn that Sasuke guy was the main character. What with everyone and their pet gerbil being all over him and all.
Joke all you want but that is intentional. Naruto and Sasuke are co-protagonists.
 
Sakura hitting Naruto all the time is just suppose to be funny slap stick not that serious, very common in a lot of anime. You see similar moments with Rukia and Nami. The problems are that Sakura just isn't a likable character and the story focuses so much on what a poor little orphan Naruto is.
 
What do you mean? Elaborate.
I mean after getting a new medical Hokage and healing Sasuke and most of their forces recovering from the Orochimaru Sand attack, Sasuke showed no gratitude or basic thanks towards Naruto for getting someone to heal him from the Mangekyou genjutsu and Naruto stupidly accepting a duel in a hospital.

As twisted as it sounds, I wouldn't mind Sasuke leaving Konoha for a better perspective, just not to Ororchimaru.
I hate Naruto's take of "They are the same thing", from the Sannin with Naruto under Jiraiya, Sakura under Tsunade and Sasuke under Orichimaru to the resurrection of a ninja god.
 
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