My Hero Academia - Plus Ultra

[wtfNeedSignUp]

NGE is a "subversion" of the typical shonen story because Shinji is a whiny sadsack who doesn't want to be the "chosen one". Shinji of course was dealt a shitty hand and over the course of the series is manipulated and/or abused by everyone around him.

It's not really a subversion though. There were other media where the pilots didn't want to do it or manipulated for shadowy organizations. Westerns use the "subversion" label because they want to justify watching anime, which is where all the rot came from.

Shonen heroes are allowed early victories. Luffy basically trounced everyone in the East Blue when he wasn't stymied by other factors (falling asleep battling Kuro, almost drowning when battling Arlong), it was in the Grand Line where he faced his first real losses, whether against Sir Crocodile or Rob Lucci.

The wrong turn was when Deku wasn't allowed to really lose. This was apparent as the series decayed, like Tintin Mirio doing the heavy lifting on the big battle with Overhaul when it should've been Deku.

Just being in the school would already be a win, but Deku shot up to being better than his peers immediately while all good shonen will let the early win just to show the hero how he is a big fish in a small pond.

 

[Trollblade69]

Westerns use the "subversion" label because they want to justify watching anime, which is where all the rot came from.

I thought they used it to justify NOT watching anime. By saying the anime they've already watched is better than others, they make excuses to not watch other shows. Watch a sufficient amount of Gundam (or Ultraman) and you'll see just how much pre-tread ground is in NGE, but call them all "crappy toy commercials about war being bad" and you can put Eva on a pedestal for being the only mecha you've watched that isn't Code Geass or Gurren Lagann.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Now Im trying to imagine H.P with that sort of twist and I cant help but really hate it.

The original was kind of by the numbers, sure, but it was at least a satisfying ride the first time you follow it. Sometimes cliches and trends are used for a reason, they work.

Even then, those stories still deal with the fake villain, and require enough setup to not make the existing story a waste of time. Switching everything for the hell of it does not mean you are clever, it means you're a hack. This is why I brought up Star Wars ST, the "expectations" that were "subverted" were not fun, entertaining, or clever. It pissed everyone off.

This is where MHA's core failing is. Hori made a good, if predictable, story and then shat all over the concept.

 

[Kurohige]

The wrong turn was when Deku wasn't allowed to really lose. This was apparent as the series decayed, like Tintin Mirio doing the heavy lifting on the big battle with Overhaul when it should've been Deku.

Speaking of Hori's lust for Western references, with the bits of Avatar: The Last Airbender bits Horikoshi sprinkled in from jump, he really should've let there be a Book II Aang getting "killed" while in the Avatar State moment, with Deku getting hit those Quirk-erasing bullets (Hori would probably make him eat his hair to reignite the torch since he can't take a risk to save his life). Makes me sigh when I think about how Deku unlocked more utility in OFA beyond the Smashes via the predecessors later in the story than before. However, as funny as Deku taking AFO's quirks away is, I still just wanted see the kid master that damn quirk and truly make it his in the end, but alas...

Just being in the school would already be a win, but Deku shot up to being better than his peers immediately while all good shonen will let the early win just to show the hero how he is a big fish in a small pond.

The whole series could've been Deku going from 1-C to 1-A. Just replace Shinso with him for those specific story beats; biggest highlights of the 1-C story would be Deku winning in upset after upset during the Sports Festival, and moving up to 1-B after the Joint Training Arc (might need to rework the timeline with this one). Given that 1-C is a support and more general education/basic high school class at a prestigious school, Deku would've had more time to train beyond getting more and more Make-A-Wish nonsense. It's like it's forgotten that Deku is a very intelligent, as part of his character. Throw in a bit of Bleach, and have him breeze through his homework after All Might nearly kills him in training lol.

This would all be so predictable, but in my opinion, My Hero Academia should've been the most safely written graphic work ever, which is ironic for me to say, considering my condemnations of Horikoshi's lack of risk when writing. Shonen is such a cutthroat industry though.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I thought they used it to justify NOT watching anime. By saying the anime they've already watched is better than others, they make excuses to not watch other shows. Watch a sufficient amount of Gundam (or Ultraman) and you'll see just how much pre-tread ground is in NGE, but call them all "crappy toy commercials about war being bad" and you can put Eva on a pedestal for being the only mecha you've watched that isn't Code Geass or Gurren Lagann.

G Gundam had more to say than NGE did.

And that was the silly show with the AMURIKA FUCK YA Gundam.

The wrong turn was when Deku wasn't allowed to really lose.

I think the wronger turn was turning Shigaraki into a god, the moment the guy got his "I can nuke a city by slapping it like a used car salesman" and Regeneration the series was utterly doomed because there was no sensible way for Deku to take him down.

It is just like with Madara in Naruto, and Aizen in Bleach.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I’m not going to miss this stupid ass takes on the manga, that’s for sure.

https://x.com/peronakire/status/1823921593074246020

 

[Xarpho's Return]

The whole series could've been Deku going from 1-C to 1-A. Just replace Shinso with him for those specific story beats; biggest highlights of the 1-C story would be Deku winning in upset after upset during the Sports Festival, and moving up to 1-B after the Joint Training Arc (might need to rework the timeline with this one). Given that 1-C is a support and more general education/basic high school class at a prestigious school, Deku would've had more time to train beyond getting more and more Make-A-Wish nonsense. It's like it's forgotten that Deku is a very intelligent, as part of his character. Throw in a bit of Bleach, and have him breeze through his homework after All Might nearly kills him in training lol.

This would all be so predictable, but in my opinion, My Hero Academia should've been the most safely written graphic work ever, which is ironic for me to say, considering my condemnations of Horikoshi's lack of risk when writing. Shonen is such a cutthroat industry though.

No way. 1-B has their own unique quirks (both as "superpowers" and general quirkiness) and abandoning them and Class 1-C to move up to 1-A seems like the wrong message. In fiction, if a character ever makes it their desire to become part of the upper echelon elite rival group as his driving goal (this takes several forms, sometimes "my REAL family"), he'll inevitably realize that his TRUE compatriots were right along with him all along. While I believe such a story could be written well where that's pulled off successfully and our hero moves up to the ranks, Hori isn't the person to write it.

In "traditional" works, the upper echelon elite rival group are arrogant assholes who will win by any means necessary, in comedic works where the main characters are dysfunctional losers, the "upper echelon"/rival group is more successful, richer, and cooler—and genuinely nice, which drives our hero up the wall.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I’m not going to miss this stupid ass takes on the manga, that’s for sure.
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https://x.com/peronakire/status/1823921593074246020

I mean the racism arc is generally retarded since Horikoshi made the rioters end up being right despite trying to frame them in the wrong (like no one gave a shit about mutant discrimination in and out of universe until it happened), and made the heroes look incompetent since they knew a riot was going to happen at a hospital days in advance because of a villain they had at the hospital but never thought to move him to a different facility, so letting civilians be put in danger.

Then his random messages of:

"Only people in rural areas are racist, unlike the city which is not racist"

and

"To stop racism is to shame racists and hope they suddenly feel bad"

And having two "and everyone clapped" moments when some random mutant gave a speech that made rioters stop rioting, and Shoji receiving a Nobel Peace Prize for ending racism in the epilogue while thanking the rioters.

Horikoshi is proof that manga authors should not do political commentary. I mean its already bad enough that he had civilians treat Endeavor like shit and treated it as just cancel culture for being mad at him for being terrible to his family yet less than 10 chapters before that showed a backstory of him beating his children and raping his wife to pump out more babies.

 

[Kurohige]

No way. 1-B has their own unique quirks (both as "superpowers" and general quirkiness) and abandoning them and Class 1-C to move up to 1-A seems like the wrong message. In fiction, if a character ever makes it their desire to become part of the upper echelon elite rival group as his driving goal (this takes several forms, sometimes "my REAL family"), he'll inevitably realize that his TRUE compatriots were right along with him all along.

So true, although again, this just reiterates for me that MHA's story should've been played safer than a padded cell.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I thought they used it to justify NOT watching anime. By saying the anime they've already watched is better than others, they make excuses to not watch other shows. Watch a sufficient amount of Gundam (or Ultraman) and you'll see just how much pre-tread ground is in NGE, but call them all "crappy toy commercials about war being bad" and you can put Eva on a pedestal for being the only mecha you've watched that isn't Code Geass or Gurren Lagann.

It's not so much not watching anime, but feeding into their elitism about not watching certain media while giving them justification for watching media that is just bait for them. Like with film elitists not watching blockbusters but giving 5/5 stars for what amount to lesbian porn.

The whole series could've been Deku going from 1-C to 1-A. Just replace Shinso with him for those specific story beats; biggest highlights of the 1-C story would be Deku winning in upset after upset during the Sports Festival, and moving up to 1-B after the Joint Training Arc (might need to rework the timeline with this one). Given that 1-C is a support and more general education/basic high school class at a prestigious school, Deku would've had more time to train beyond getting more and more Make-A-Wish nonsense. It's like it's forgotten that Deku is a very intelligent, as part of his character. Throw in a bit of Bleach, and have him breeze through his homework after All Might nearly kills him in training lol.

This would all be so predictable, but in my opinion, My Hero Academia should've been the most safely written graphic work ever, which is ironic for me to say, considering my condemnations of Horikoshi's lack of risk when writing. Shonen is such a cutthroat industry though.

Like Xarpho's Return said, having the main character leave his class for another is pretty much a terrible message and look for a main character. Deku should have reached 1-C, while Bakugo, Todoroki and maybe Ochaco had gotten to 1-A, and stayed there throughout the story, with him and his classmates working with and competing against 1-A. It would have made a lot more moments have more impact (like Deku beating Bakugo) and would have been more logical since the bulk of 1-A have powers that really suck, while you'd think 1-A would just be primarily beatsticks.

 

[ShitLurker]

So true, although again, this just reiterates for me that MHA's story should've been played safer than a padded cell.

Agreed. It was the first decent capeshit in years and that's why so many latched on to it. Then it tried to be clever and failed miserably.

Deku at the end should have been Superman. Not cucked spooderman.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

@wtfNeedSignUp
Even if 1-A had several characters that had powers that weren’t great you’d think they’d make up for that by being real creative with their powers or really heroic or both. But we never really get to see that kind of stuff.

It honestly feels like Hori forgot 1-A was supposed to be better than everyone and actually have more than 5 characters.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

@wtfNeedSignUp
Even if 1-A had several characters that had powers that weren’t great you’d think they’d make up for that by being real creative with their powers or really heroic or both. But we never really get to see that kind of stuff.

It honestly feels like Hori forgot 1-A was supposed to be better than everyone and actually have more than 5 characters.

Character creep is the sin of many shonen but good god MHA speedruns it far more than most. Bleach and Naruto had a pretty small core and it took to Chuunin exam/Rukia resucee arc to get the creep going (and even then most of the characters were obviously minor), MHA has like 30 character by the end of episode 10 with the whole class competing for airtime.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

(and even then most of the characters were obviously minor)

It really helped that Naruto split characters into Teams of 3 so by like Episode 2 you’d been told ‘important characters are Team 7, their mentor and the demon fox Naruto has’ and it sticks to that for it’s entire run. Even down to the fact that the final conflict was between the two main guys of Twam 7. And before that the main antagonist was heavily tied to the group’s mentor.

It took several seasons’ for MHA to go ‘here is core cast, here is side cast, everyone else can be ignored’

To say nothing of how messy the final confrontation and villains were.

MHA has like 30 character by the end of episode 10 with the whole class competing for airtime.

Which honestly would have been fine if the anime was done like Naruto/Bleach and One Piece were where it was week to week episodes and they couldn’t stop. All the filler could have just been all the stuff all the other members if Class 1-A were doing while the main plot was happening.

 

[Rykel22]

Something that always bugged me was the fact that no-one really tried to help Deku get OfA under control for months in story. Boy's shattering his bones, in school no less, for weeks and nobody, not his mentor, not the healer or principle who both know the importance of OfA, take him to the side and brainstorm a way to help. It really doesn't work in a setting meant to be a future of reality.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It really helped that Naruto split characters into Teams of 3 so by like Episode 2 you’d been told ‘important characters are Team 7, their mentor and the demon fox Naruto has’ and it sticks to that for it’s entire run. Even down to the fact that the final conflict was between the two main guys of Twam 7. And before that the main antagonist was heavily tied to the group’s mentor.

It was a really smart writing direction back then since you knew to focus on specific teams at first (7, Neji's and Sand) and the other teams slowly came into light. Bleach had the Gotei 13 which was absolutely massive 30+ character count, but a lot of the captains didn't have any importance and the vice captains were pointless.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

still can’t wrap my head around the fact that effectively the last chapter of MHA was ‘oh shit, I forgot about Touga’

Wait…since she died. That means Uraraka is as shit at her job as Deku lol.

If Hori really wanted to subvert, he’d have had it be revealed that Uraraka had died and Touga had perfect copied. But this time not out of a selfish desire but a selfless one.

 

[Trollblade69]

It really helped that Naruto split characters into Teams of 3 so by like Episode 2 you’d been told ‘important characters are Team 7, their mentor and the demon fox Naruto has’ and it sticks to that for it’s entire run. Even down to the fact that the final conflict was between the two main guys of Twam 7. And before that the main antagonist was heavily tied to the group’s mentor.

Sakura ended up competely superfluous, the Kyuubi doesn't become an actual character until almost 500 chapters in and even then remains a passive power battery, there's several arcs where Sasuke just isn't around, and Tobi doesn't become the main antagonist until Chapter 364, at which point the manga spends five years real-time obnoxiously teasing that he could be anyone but Obito and you start to wish Kishimoto would've committed to this new decision and let Kakashi stay dead in the Pain Invasion.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Sakura ended up competely superfluous, the Kyuubi doesn't become an actual character until almost 500 chapters in and even then remains a passive power battery, there's several arcs where Sasuke just isn't around, and Tobi doesn't become the main antagonist until Chapter 364, at which point the manga spends five years real-time obnoxiously teasing that he could be anyone but Obito and you start to wish Kishimoto would've committed to this new at decision and let Kakashi stay dead in the Pain Invasion.

Well that may all be true, it does not change anything about what I was saying.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

So true, although again, this just reiterates for me that MHA's story should've been played safer than a padded cell.

The thing about stories is even the conclusion is foregone there's a lot to play around with, and sometimes the question is HOW they get out of the situation they're in.

In some works this is obvious. The hero will survive and win. The "how" is the issue. Some of the story beats in MHA were interesting, but many were handled badly and made it far worse than just played normally.

There were theories about Deku's father that got thrown out the window, with one popular theory being that he was OfA and stole Deku's real quirk. (There were also theories that his father might've been All Might all along). In other works, especially multiple-seasons TV shows, a missing dad (or mom) is merely a placeholder to be developed later. Hell, if you didn't want the awkward mechanics of putting his father in, just introduce some villain who killed his father.

Also, Twice was the most interesting character of the villains and not only did they kill him off early it was all the "they accepted me for who I was" bullshit (from what I read, I checked out before that actually happened).

Even if 1-A had several characters that had powers that weren’t great you’d think they’d make up for that by being real creative with their powers or really heroic or both. But we never really get to see that kind of stuff.

It honestly feels like Hori forgot 1-A was supposed to be better than everyone and actually have more than 5 characters.

Class 1-A's B-team only worked before Class 1-B was introduced. Like it was fine when you had losers like "Tail Guy", the guy who could talk to animals and looked like a flesh-colored rock, Sero ("Tape Guy"), Invisible Girl, Sugarman, and Pinky.

Then when Class 1-B shows up with their own powers, which is stated to be not as good as Class 1-A in some way that I forgot, half of those guys were more powerful/more interesting than a good third of Class 1-A.

If that was a problem, then just export 1-B to a rival school.