Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

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HX-2 said:
iirc the main issues were a massively overblown budget and problems relating to concurrency. I don't remember any major problems with the program that would have killed it outright because all the problems were solved with the F-22
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One also often forgets the political context of that critique. The 2008 recession was still in full swing and in many places, they still haven't fully recovered from that crash. So, the average critic of the program really wondered why so much money on a fighter program instead of more acute things like infrastructure and healthcare. The teething issues from things like the gun not working properly early on and the pilot oxygen feed issues also contributed to this.

Sleazy Car Salesman said:
And most of those issues all stemmed from the exact same source: The F-35B
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I also would argue that spreading the production of so many components across different states to make the thing politically immune to being cut also contributed to this, because it inherently leads to bloat and extra logistics expenses. Not to mention getting the British involved, because that always goes well in military procurement.

WelperHelper99 said:
The F-35 has been a unbridled success at this point. It's issues initially were pushed hard by the media. At this point however, it's a mature platform decades ahead of pretty much everyone else
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The PRC did end up being able to have near complete information on everything about it thanks to the various data breaches and leaks. Time will tell if the J-35 is worthy challenger on this regard, because it does look like they took a lot of cues from it but then decided that they want a twin-engine and only develop it to be a conventional land fighter, instead of 3 fighter programs in 1.

Sleazy Car Salesman said:
It's almost as if VTOL is a stupid idea or something.
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The original concept which was to have a fighter / CAS capable of operating from very short airfields is done better by having aircrafts designed with good STOL performance in the first place with the ability to convert highways. Same with jump jet carriers because even at Falklands, the main reason why the Argies couldn't do much about the Harrier was due to the Mirages operating right at the limit of their range.
 
The Grognard said:
I also would argue that spreading the production of so many components across different states to make the thing politically immune to being cut also contributed to this, because it inherently leads to bloat and extra logistics expenses. Not to mention getting the British involved, because that always goes well in military procurement.
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I think that this is the unfortunate reality of modern-day military procurement, where everything blows the budget and ends up cancelled. Lockheed Martin obviously wants to milk the F-35 project and to prevent it from being killed in the crib for blowing the budget and being behind on schedule, you need to bribe every single fucking politician
The Grognard said:
the main reason why the Argies couldn't do much about the Harrier was due to the Mirages operating right at the limit of their range.
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I would argue that this has less to do with VTOL and more on bad planning by the Argentinians, who still managed to bloody the nose of the Royal Navy with A-4 Skyhawks and Super Etendards
 
HX-2 said:
I would argue that this has less to do with VTOL and more on bad planning by the Argentinians, who still managed to bloody the nose of the Royal Navy with A-4 Skyhawks and Super Etendards
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That's why I mentioned the whole war because it's the conflict that mythologized the Harrier as a great British invention, rather than a glorified bomb truck that would get slapped around by any contemporary fighter piloted competently. The whole conflict really is a prime example of how the Argies banked everything on their overstreched air force being the MVP while the Navy got super timid after the Belgrano got sunk and the Army expecting not getting their asses kicked by squaddies who actually know how to soldier properly.
 
I am entirely out of the loop, does the US currently have a CAS program? I remember they were pushing to ditch dedicated CAS entirely, but it also looks like they keep pushing back the retirement of the A-10.
 
Mussolini’s Merkin said:
I am entirely out of the loop, does the US currently have a CAS program? I remember they were pushing to ditch dedicated CAS entirely, but it also looks like they keep pushing back the retirement of the A-10.
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The AF has sabotaged CAS since the Army Air Corps was dissolved. The kind of sad part is all the Navy planes they've brought out of retirement to do CAS.
 
Mussolini’s Merkin said:
I am entirely out of the loop, does the US currently have a CAS program? I remember they were pushing to ditch dedicated CAS entirely, but it also looks like they keep pushing back the retirement of the A-10.
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Everything is slated to be replaced by the F-35 wunderwaffe. I imagine we will soon have F-35 based troop transports to replace the helicopter force and F-35s with artillery pods to replace gun-based CAS like the A-10 and AC-130.

Who knows, maybe they'll even go further and design submersible F-35s to take the place of the nuclear subs and cancel the M1A3 program in favor of a heavily armored F-35 variant equipped with a 120mm cannon? A true final solution, gentlemen.
 
quaawaa said:
Since Iran started, the drone lovers have been awfully quiet. Turns out that the F-35 wasn't made obsolete by swarms of cheap drones :story:.
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Iran literally has a "techbro" military aka drones and missiles and they're getting STOMPED
WelperHelper99 said:
The F-35 has been a unbridled success at this point. It's issues initially were pushed hard by the media. At this point however, it's a mature platform decades ahead of pretty much everyone else
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Correct. It's issues were essentially all resolved by ~2016/2017 and it's only gotten better since then.
 
Mussolini’s Merkin said:
I am entirely out of the loop, does the US currently have a CAS program? I remember they were pushing to ditch dedicated CAS entirely, but it also looks like they keep pushing back the retirement of the A-10.
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The USAF's idea of dedicated CAS currently seems to be F-16s with SDBs and APKWS. For better or worse, probably both. I can accept that the A-10 may be obsolete, but I can't understand not replacing it with an updated attack jet that has a low flight hour cost and can fly from shitty runways.
Falcos_Commisar said:
Correct. It's issues were essentially all resolved by ~2016/2017 and it's only gotten better since then.
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The tactics of the F-35 smear campaign go back to F-16 at the least, but it felt particularly vicious this time around. It felt like media interests trying to assemble a self-fulfilling prophecy, by which slavish reporting on misrepresented doctrine, exagerated technical issues, and conflated lifetime and upfront costs, would all combine to scare off buyers, blow up the actual costs by killing the economy of scale, and ultimately turn it all into another F-22.

Almost like people somewhere recognized the significance of a common multi-role stealth fighter that could be flown by any nation that could afford it from any basing they may have at a relatively low cost, and wanted to nip that shit in the bud via some cheeky media horseshit if possible. But that part is just my autism.
 
Some say that the only reason the Air Force is still flying the A10 is because they're worried that the Army could get them if they're surplussed.
 
Nice Stick said:
Some say that the only reason the Air Force is still flying the A10 is because they're worried that the Army could get them if they're surplussed.
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Nah, it's kept flying because it has a positive public image and politicians love it. As for most probable place to surplus them, it's probably Ukraine or some middle-eastern nation that has a need for a dedicated bomb truck.
 
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