Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

[NiggerNiggerNigger]

Drones aren't all that different to counter than traditional aircraft anyways.

Russian anti-drone system “Pine Tree” which locks onto the drone, likely using its frequency before guiding itself to the target and colliding with it.

Pine Tree.mov

Cool video.
ECM nerds will figure their shit out. I think the effectiveness of drones is being overrated by the video footage being seen by the public.
I don't think the Ukrainians realize how much that hurt their cause in the US.
People only see Russians trying to survive a chickenshit terror weapon, there are no Ukrainians in those videos to relate to, only Russians. People see these guys running around trying to survive, or shooting at the drone, or trying to fucking hide from the damn thing. The only human reaction to that shit is to hope the Russian survives because drones are some soulless shit, but then the drone wins.
>SUPPORT UKRAINE GOY!

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Cool video.
ECM nerds will figure their shit out. I think the effectiveness of drones is being overrated by the video footage being seen by the public.
I don't think the Ukrainians realize how much that hurt their cause in the US.
People only see Russians trying to survive a chickenshit terror weapon, there are no Ukrainians in those videos to relate to, only Russians. People see these guys running around trying to survive, or shooting at the drone, or trying to fucking hide from the damn thing. The only human reaction to that shit is to hope the Russian survives because drones are some soulless shit, but then the drone wins.
>SUPPORT UKRAINE GOY!

And not only that but the vast majority of the early footage was the Ukranians straight up executing wounded and defenseless men begging for their lives.

 

[74164978231]

Plus keep in mind that in both the Pacific and the Atlantic there were still multiple surface actions for which CVs were totally useless and without those surface ships (including BBs) the battle would have been lost. CVs were NOT the queens of the ocean until well after WWII when they were capable of night action and action in heavy weather.

Hell even in WWII itself CVs were only really great in the PTO largely due to the massive operational distances and lack of any real land bases. In Europe CVs were effectively a total non-factor even for the Brits and Americans who actually had them.

Theres a very singular reason why Midway was the most important battle of the Pacific theater during WW2. The loss of 4 fleet carriers and hundreds of aircraft and pilots absolutely crippled Japan's warfighting capability.

Conversely their attack on Pearl Harbor damaging and sinking two battleships had negligable impact on the war seeing as how Midway was 6 months after.

Drones will never replace Jets and JDAMS as much as SciFi authors have a raging hardon for the quadcopter doohikies. They are a tool in the arsenal that still can't beat a GPS guided 2000 pound bomb delivered by a Mach 2.5 F-15E Strike Eagle.

I know damn well the current crop of drones, especially fpvs cant match the capability of F-16s, A-10s, F-35s etc. When I say drones thats not what im referring to. I mean what drones can do when genuinely developed and its advantages of not being limited by a human riding in it are taken advantage of.

I want drones to fill every possible niche, I dont care about their size.

People don't realize how many drones are lost to make the nice telegram clips, both FPVs and bigger attack drones. It's a ton.

And yet the dozen fpvs it took still cost less money than just the flight hour cost of an F-16, let alone the cost of ordnance.

ey are quad copters that sometimes are wire controled for fucks sake. A lot are consumer grade that have been hillbilly rigged into a mini bomber/ suicide drone. Most were never meant to be a fucking weapon. It's like weaponizing a tractor. Sure i can strap two M240 Bravos onto a tractor and maybe a armored Cab. It proably will work as a little kill truck. Its still a fucking tractor with all the limitations of a tractor. That is where we are in drone development. There are some purpose built systems, but not a lot. The drones currently are small and weak or big, slow, and expensive.

You can chide them all you want but bubba fpvs have destroyed more tanks and killed more people than every single A-10 combined.

Even the drip feed of western LO cruise missiles has had such an outsized impact at such a higher level of efficiency than either side's attack drones

Cruise missles are just another name for drone.

the idea that those same attack drones are equivalent to a B2 attack makes you sound like the lowest level of /k/ shitposting.

I should have said yes, the drones being used in deep strike attacks have significantly less payload compared to a B2.

 

[74164978231]

And not only that but the vast majority of the early footage was the Ukranians straight up executing wounded and defenseless men begging for their lives.

100% agreement here. I find it very bizarre if not horrifying that we havent had a geneva convention type moment yet over this.

Speaks to how evil the globohomos are.

 

[WelperHelper99]

I know damn well the current crop of drones, especially fpvs cant match the capability of F-16s, A-10s, F-35s etc. When I say drones thats not what im referring to. I mean what drones can do when genuinely developed and its advantages of not being limited by a human riding in it are taken advantage of.

I want drones to fill every possible niche, I dont care about their size

Drones will never beat manned platforms in 1 on 1 fights. They are force multipliers meant to die for the greater force. Your drone autism dies when a EA-18G Growler enters the airspace and fucks up all signals. They are tools to be integrated, but never relied on. That's what men with machine guns are for.

 

[VF-1J Armored Valkyrie]

Cruise missles are just another name for drone.

Now I know you're just trolling. There's a tiny little sliver of overlap in that venn diagram but cruise missile and drone development are going in opposite directions. Attack drones are making more expensive cruise missiles more feasible, not less.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Theres a very singular reason why Midway was the most important battle of the Pacific theater during WW2. The loss of 4 fleet carriers and hundreds of aircraft and pilots absolutely crippled Japan's warfighting capability.

Conversely their attack on Pearl Harbor damaging and sinking two battleships had negligable impact on the war seeing as how Midway was 6 months after.

This is a very overly simplistic view of the PTO. You're completely glossing over American production capacity, the population disparity as well as educational differences between the populations of Japan and America, the already massive existing stockpile of warships (particularly destroyers) the USA had in mothballs prior to the war, and the fact that even after Midway there were at least two more campaigns with large scale prolonged surface and carrier actions in which Japan managed to hold their own. Both Guadalcanal and the Phillippines were very good showings for the IJN and both devolved into what was essentially a hockey fight with the USN's greater attritional capabilities giving the win to America. Sure Midway dealt a heavy blow but the Kido-Butai wasn't well and truly fucked until after Coral Sea and most of the reason for that comes more from training and deployment doctrine from the IJN combined with heavy manufacturing bottlenecks in Japan rather than any one particular battle. And even if we do subscribe to the idea that Midway is what demolishes the IJN carrier force in one massive sledgehammer blow then so what? Their surface fleet is still out there and still poses a very credible threat for another couple years, it's the Battle of Samar that finally breaks their spine.

Midway is important, but it isn't THE BATTLE like popular consensus wants to make it out to be. There was still very much so a war to be fought after Midway.

 

[NiggerNiggerNigger]

And not only that but the vast majority of the early footage was the Ukranians straight up executing wounded and defenseless men begging for their lives.

What's bizarre about it is they thought that would go over well with Americans.
Maybe times have changed, but in the early 2000s the average kid joining the military believed they were the good guys, peace keepers, defenders of a good and honest country and were taught to be tough by their leaders, but not monsters, and their parents, who were not fools were proud of their sons and daughters and believed the same things.
It may seem naive today, but the cynicism and nihilism of today is off the charts from where it was 20 years ago.
Ukrainians really thought we'd be into this psycho shit. Like we'd fucking bond over war crimes or some shit.
That's who the world thinks we are, and the MIC/media/political apparatus appears to be just as incapable of reading the fucking room.

 

[Karakhalkin-Gol]

What's bizarre about it is they thought that would go over well with Americans.

The Ukrainians believed Americans would hold the same white-hot hatred and blood feuds against Russians as they do. They were (mostly) incorrect, but they’ve really struck a chord with some of the terminally online.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Ukrainians really thought we'd be into this psycho shit. Like we'd fucking bond over war crimes or some shit.

The fucked up part is that those vocal minority that make up the NAFO crowd and other similar globablist ZOGbots are precisely that sort of sicko.

And yeah, Americans still want to see ourselves as the good guys but I think we've become so jaded specifically because we've realized that no matter how hard we try and no matter how hard we sacrifice trying to help people they always turn us into the bad guys in retrospect and downplay our achievements and sacrifices. And as things get worse and worse for us on the homefront the attitude that's really started to reveal itself of "let them hang" is going to get more pervasive. Personally I'm in favor of us no longer acting as world police but on the other hand I realize that giving that up just means letting some other country like China take over.

 

[NiggerNiggerNigger]

I realize that giving that up just means letting some other country like China take over.

I wouldn't be so sure, the status quo definitely threatens that to make us think its our prize to fight for, but it seems like just another manipulation.
I don't want to political sperg, but I'm not sure life at the top is all that great. The people that really profited off our hegemony consider themselves internationalists, they can leave the country whenever they want, and would the moment it suited them to -- while the American people themselves (in general) cannot leave and would not even if they could. The American people are ride or die whatever happens. While after only a few generations of winning the beneficiaries of this hegemony have formed some bizarre internationalist class and consider themselves above something as pedestrian and barbaric as "nationalism".
The fuck do they think the American people should think of that?

I don't think the solution is to drop everything, it doesn't have to be one extreme at one end all the way to the opposite extreme at the other end.
controlled demolition > uncontrolled demolition.
We don't owe everyone all of this, the burdens are getting worse every year and the benefits are shrinking, and instead of reforming the status quo they're doubling down and trying to economically beat us into submission.
They don't care if we lose hegemony because they're not American nationalists, they're internationalist weirdos, but we're going to lose either way, may as well let globalism fall flat on its face and serve them their share of the consequences for their role in it.

 

[The Ugly One]

And yet the dozen fpvs it took still cost less money than just the flight hour cost of an F-16, let alone the cost of ordnance.

Yes, a 5-lb bomb costs a lot less than a 2,000-lb bomb. Absolutely bewildering why both Russia and the USA continue to make 2,000-lb bombs when 5-lb bombs are so much cheaper.

 

[BaldAndMorallyBankrupt]

The real reporter guy is a russia shill and the drone maker strikes me as partially full of shit, but he does make some decent points when getting into technical details and practical operation of drones.

I'm reminded of a german ww2 tank commander discussing the IL-2, a notorious air-ground striker, often dubbed a tank killer. Despite the infamy he expressed that he wasn't too concerned with them and neither were the other commanders. That they missed more often than not. Incidentally it was discovered than air-to-ground kills were way over reported after the war.

I'm wondering how much of a concern drones are to the actual people on the ground. I've seen footage of tanks getting hit with 5-6 drones and still not get disabled. There's also plenty of footage of drones under or overshooting targets. I don't doubt drone kills are over reported, especially now that Ukraine has set up this point system with regard to drone kills.

 

[JJLiautaud]

That they missed more often than not. Incidentally it was discovered than air-to-ground kills were way over reported after the war.

and after the war and during the next one...

The chieftain goes over this for Korea.

 

[74164978231]

Yes, a 5-lb bomb costs a lot less than a 2,000-lb bomb. Absolutely bewildering why both Russia and the USA continue to make 2,000-lb bombs when 5-lb bombs are so much cheaper.

Probably because 2000 pound bombs are used on bunkers, infrastructure or heavy fortifications and not tanks or other armored vehicles.

I'm wondering how much of a concern drones are to the actual people on the ground. I've seen footage of tanks getting hit with 5-6 drones and still not get disabled.

I guess youve missed the videos of people blowing their brains out at seeing/hearing drones.

Sure Midway dealt a heavy blow but the Kido-Butai wasn't well and truly fucked until after Coral Sea

Im assuming you mean Leyte Gulf? Coral Sea took place before Midway. And by the time Leyte took place, the USN absolutely dwarfed the IJN.

But the Kido Butai wasnt anything more than a philosphy. How well did Mushasi fare? Randomly sunk by airplanes after being randomly spotted, at least the Yamato got to destroy something before being chased off by a few destroyers. What was supposed to be the pinnacle of 300-400 years of naval warship design easily destroyed by a weapon introduced a little over a decade prior.

Thats where we are at today.

There was still very much so a war to be fought after Midway.

Sure but how long it took was more of a function of wanting to gobble up every island possible defended by men who preferred to die in combat than surrender. Also didnt help they where spread out over thousands of miles.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Probably because 2000 pound bombs are used on bunkers, infrastructure or heavy fortifications and not tanks or other armored vehicles

You can sure as fuck use a 2000 pound bomb on a tank. That is a instant kill.

 

[The Ugly One]

Probably because 2000 pound bombs are used on bunkers, infrastructure or heavy fortifications and not tanks or other armored vehicles.

No, that can't be right. My favorite YouTuber made a video about how cheap a drone that can carry 5 pounds 500 yards at 25 mph is, and therefore a jet that can carry 5000 lbs 500 miles at 1000 mph is obsolete.

 

[Welf Welf]

Sure Midway dealt a heavy blow but the Kido-Butai wasn't well and truly fucked until after Coral Sea

Small correction: it was the battles of the Eastern Solomons and the Santa Cruz Islands that fucked the Kido Butai. Coral Sea came before Midway and was one of those tactical victories/strategic defeats Japan had so often in 1942. Here's an account from the Japanese side about the Santa Cruz carrier battle:



Like you said, Midway was a serious setback, but it didn't cripple their carrier force. These two battles did, even if they hurt the US just as bad in terms of materiel (but not pilots) lost. Even so, if Japan had displayed more initiative in the aftermath of this battle (now that American carriers were out of the picture for the time being), the Solomons campaign could have gone quite differently.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Im assuming you mean Leyte Gulf? Coral Sea took place before Midway. And by the time Leyte took place, the USN absolutely dwarfed the IJN.

That is my bad, I misspoke. I meant to say Eastern Solomons as @Welf Welf pointed out. I do however stand by the rest of my post.

 

[VF-1J Armored Valkyrie]

Probably because 2000 pound bombs are used on bunkers, infrastructure or heavy fortifications and not tanks or other armored vehicles.

Not only can 2000lb bombs be used on armored vehicles, they can be used on concentrations of troops, armored vehicles, unarmored vehicles, or any other kind of equipment. It's just a big bomb, the launch platform, tail kit, and fuse are what tailor it to the task.

It's actually the drones that are often still shoved into little niches, where light bomber drones are very effective against many light targets but can drop dozens of VOGs on MBTs and not stop them, while anti-armor FPVs can kill AFVs easily but struggle with dispersed groups of infantry, while larger and slower anti-fortification drones, incendiary drones, and hit-to-kill interceptor drones are excellent in their roles but practically useless for anything else, or fiber-optic drones that are excellent for EW environments but are extremely inefficient because they catestrophically shit themselves if you don't slowly baby them to the target.

Thats where we are at today.

Nah. You're at WWI tanks; a radical new solution harnassing ad hoc combinations of other new technologies that all still have their own flaws and inefficiencies to work through, combined with an equally explosive and ad hoc development of countermeasures.