Metal Gear

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It's four years on, and the disappointment regarding MGSV still hits me from time to time. It's extremely weird that Kojima decided a Big Boss game was the time to bring back cuhrazy meta twists and NANOMACH PARASITES. They've always been relatively straightforward political/spy thrillers with "this guy really betrayed you/didn't betray you" style twists. That formula was just waiting to be tapped into in V, considering we knew that Big Boss and Miller had a huge falling out and the war between Big Boss and Zero could be an awesome mix of black operations/intelligence gathering/false flags/whatever. But nope, Big Medic is a body double, the war between Big Boss and Zero didn't matter and instead Big Medic spends the entire game fighting a giant retcon who doesn't matter, and the falling out is relegated to a post-credits conversation.

If I had to redo the entire game, I'd have it be the actual Big Boss, reintroduce established characters like Chico, Sniper Wolf, Gray Fox, etc and have Miller leave you in disgust halfway through. The second half would involve building Outer Heaven. This game was just begging to pull a meta MSF destruction plot by having you imagine the soldiers you recruit being gunned down by Solid, but nope, it's just sorta kinda implied that Diamond Dogs becomes Outer Heaven.
 
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Yeah, MGSV bums me the fuck out too, it's so close to being a classic, the gameplay is great, but the storyline is such a mess and the game is literally unfinished.

I was never too keen on 4's story either, honestly I consider Metal Gear's "hard canon" to end with Snake Eater and everything since to be "soft canon" ala Rising, it's much cleaner and neater that way.
 
HeyYou said:
It's four years on, and the disappointment regarding MGSV still hits me from time to time. It's extremely weird that Kojima decided a Big Boss game was the time to bring back cuhrazy meta twists and NANOMACH PARASITES. They've always been relatively straightforward political/spy thrillers with "this guy really betrayed you/didn't betray you" style twists. That formula was just waiting to be tapped into in V, considering we knew that Big Boss and Miller had a huge falling out and the war between Big Boss and Zero could be an awesome mix of black operations/intelligence gathering/false flags/whatever. But nope, Big Medic is a body double, the war between Big Boss and Zero didn't matter and instead Big Medic spends the entire game fighting a giant retcon who doesn't matter, and the falling out is relegated to a post-credits conversation.

If I had to redo the entire game, I'd have it be the actual Big Boss, reintroduce established characters like Chico, Sniper Wolf, Gray Fox, etc and have Miller leave you in disgust halfway through. The second half would involve building Outer Heaven. This game was just begging to pull a meta MSF destruction plot by having you imagine the soldiers you recruit being gunned down by Solid, but nope, it's just sorta kinda implied that Diamond Dogs becomes Outer Heaven.
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The frustrating thing about 5’s story is that it has some really good scenes and dialogue but the pacing and story structure just kill it. And also a lot of the real interesting stuff like Huey being revealed as a horrorcow and the scene where Zero visits snake in the hospital (probably the best scene in the game) is relegated to audio tapes
 
5 was apparently supposed to be a trilogy, ugh.

And to twist the knife, according to the king spergs at msx.org, Kojima apparently encoded a tape image of his personal copy of Door Door for an NEC computer, which got him into gaming, into 5 part 2... which Konami patched out. Understandably so, since you can only have a game ROM for 24 hours.

To post actual discussion, it hurts when you realize Kojima was right about everything.
 
The handsome tard said:
Not sure if anyone still uses this thread but does anyone feel sort of a "atmosphire" whiplash between MGS4 and Rising? Now I know, I know, made by different people but all these nanomachine and cyborgs feel a little out there even for MG standarts. Its like a sudden change of genre to the point its difficult to see Armstrong in the same universe as The Boss and Ocelot.
Anyone feels the same?
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I always had a theory that Rising was taking the piss out of MGS with some moments of its story. Particularly the ending with Armstrong. the shots overhead of Armstrong and Raiden remind me of those panning shots on top of outer haven with snake and ocelot. Those were two ideologies opposing one another over the course of the entire series, but Armstrong comes seemingly out of nowhere with no prior build-up.

His health bar simply reads Senator which speaks to me that he's not a 'real' character, but simply a caricature of neo-con/libertarian ideals meshed together. His speech about ending war as a business lampoons the lengthy monologues in MGS, but without the philosophical weight, becoming a hollow simulacrum. His mannerisms (dusting raiden off believing he's convinced) and cheesy lines (I used to play college ball) are absolute clown shoes.

Now that could be platinum having fun making sure the tone and gameplay were unique enough to stand apart from mainline games. It's because of this that I feel the tone/gameplay in revengence is far more consistent with its degree of levity in cutscenes. Usually, Kojima games are a cluster fuck between gameplay and tone causing that aforementioned trademark whiplash or dissonance, but that's another rant-ass post for a later day.
 
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My problem with V is that if you got unlucky then the game becomes an enormous slog long before you even hit Chapter 2. The farthest I'd gotten in the game is that one mission where you had to tail the truck and steal it, but I didn't have the Fulton upgrade to steal vehicles, which meant I had to grind out Fultoning soldiers to get my tech up to snuff. I played for about a week before I got bored and I haven't touched the game since.

Of course, knowing how the game ends and the way it gets there hasn't helped either. And the whole thing sucks too because the stealth is great and the new mechanics are interesting, but the tedious open world, awfully repetitive structure, and paper-thin story suck the will I have to play out of me.
 
Ruin said:
I'm still utterly baffled by their decision to completely cut Chapter 3 even though by all accounts it was 90% rendered and voice acted.
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Even worse was Kojima fucking teasing that there was a Chapter 3 after the initial game launch and people were wondering why the game just stops with no real conclusion. It got a lot of people's hopes up that maybe, just maybe, there was a possible patch or DLC coming that would include an actual ending, but we never got it and the game's still just blatantly unfinished.
 
Baldur's Gait said:
My problem with V is that if you got unlucky then the game becomes an enormous slog long before you even hit Chapter 2. The farthest I'd gotten in the game is that one mission where you had to tail the truck and steal it, but I didn't have the Fulton upgrade to steal vehicles, which meant I had to grind out Fultoning soldiers to get my tech up to snuff. I played for about a week before I got bored and I haven't touched the game since.

Of course, knowing how the game ends and the way it gets there hasn't helped either. And the whole thing sucks too because the stealth is great and the new mechanics are interesting, but the tedious open world, awfully repetitive structure, and paper-thin story suck the will I have to play out of me.
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Another example is the mission where you have to eliminate the enemy vehicle. If you have strong enough explosive weapons/upgraded Fulton/D Walker/a combat vehicle or tank of your own it’s actually a really fun mission. However the first time I played it all I had was a grenade launcher/grenades/c4 so it was a bit of a slog even with the freebies rocket launcher the game gives you

Edit: listening to the snakes revenge soundtrack. Say what you will about the NES games but they had a pretty good soundtrack
 
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Violence Jack said:
I always had a theory that Rising was taking the piss out of MGS with some moments of its story. Particularly the ending with Armstrong. the shots overhead of Armstrong and Raiden remind me of those panning shots on top of outer haven with snake and ocelot. Those were two ideologies opposing one another over the course of the entire series, but Armstrong comes seemingly out of nowhere with no prior build-up.

His health bar simply reads Senator which speaks to me that he's not a 'real' character, but simply a caricature of neo-con/libertarian ideals meshed together. His speech about ending war as a business lampoons the lengthy monologues in MGS, but without the philosophical weight, becoming a hollow simulacrum. His mannerisms (dusting raiden off believing he's convinced) and cheesy lines (I used to play college ball) are absolute clown shoes.

Now that could be platinum having fun making sure the tone and gameplay were unique enough to stand apart from mainline games. It's because of this that I feel the tone/gameplay in revengence is far more consistent with its degree of levity in cutscenes. Usually, Kojima games are a cluster fuck between gameplay and tone causing that aforementioned trademark whiplash or dissonance, but that's another rant-ass post for a later day.
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For me, Rising will always be high budget fanfiction, one I do love it but at the end of the day, I would rather that the story concluded with MGS 4. David accepted his mortality, quit smoking and would enjoy the little time he had left seeing the world as a man, not a snake, with Otacon and Sonny (the closest thing to an actual family he ever had). Jack became a family man and somewhat David's sucessor, carrying his meme (now I do believe he would still be slashing shit in the future but we didnt have to see that). Big Boss realized the error of his ways, came to truly appreciate the bravery of his mentor, made peace with his clone/son and peacefully passed away after sharing a symbolic smoke with him...knowing that just letting the world be was truly the correct thing to do. And Ocelot makes sure to let Big Boss know, that by doing all of this, remaining loyal to the end, that he was...indeed..."pretty good".
I just honest to God cant imagine that the MGS universe becomes something borderline out of a DC/Marvel movie or high tech samural japanese animes (Grey Fox and MGS4 Raiden still were somewhat acceptable but Rising just cranked that to 11).
So while I love Rising, I will always see MGS 4 as the "flawed but touching" conclusion of the series.
 
The handsome tard said:
For me, Rising will always be high budget fanfiction, one I do love it but at the end of the day, I would rather that the story concluded with MGS 4. David accepted his mortality, quit smoking and would enjoy the little time he had left seeing the world as a man, not a snake, with Otacon and Sonny (the closest thing to an actual family he ever had). Jack became a family man and somewhat David's sucessor, carrying his meme (now I do believe he would still be slashing shit in the future but we didnt have to see that). Big Boss realized the error of his ways, came to truly appreciate the bravery of his mentor, made peace with his clone/son and peacefully passed away after sharing a symbolic smoke with him...knowing that just letting the world be was truly the correct thing to do. And Ocelot makes sure to let Big Boss know, that by doing all of this, remaining loyal to the end, that he was...indeed..."pretty good".
I just honest to God cant imagine that the MGS universe becomes something borderline out of a DC/Marvel movie or high tech samural japanese animes (Grey Fox and MGS4 Raiden still were somewhat acceptable but Rising just cranked that to 11).
So while I love Rising, I will always see MGS 4 as the "flawed but touching" conclusion of the series.
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The best this that it’s set at the end of the timeline so whether or not one considers it canon is up to you
 
HeyYou said:
It's four years on, and the disappointment regarding MGSV still hits me from time to time. It's extremely weird that Kojima decided a Big Boss game was the time to bring back cuhrazy meta twists and NANOMACH PARASITES. They've always been relatively straightforward political/spy thrillers with "this guy really betrayed you/didn't betray you" style twists. That formula was just waiting to be tapped into in V, considering we knew that Big Boss and Miller had a huge falling out and the war between Big Boss and Zero could be an awesome mix of black operations/intelligence gathering/false flags/whatever. But nope, Big Medic is a body double, the war between Big Boss and Zero didn't matter and instead Big Medic spends the entire game fighting a giant retcon who doesn't matter, and the falling out is relegated to a post-credits conversation.

If I had to redo the entire game, I'd have it be the actual Big Boss, reintroduce established characters like Chico, Sniper Wolf, Gray Fox, etc and have Miller leave you in disgust halfway through. The second half would involve building Outer Heaven. This game was just begging to pull a meta MSF destruction plot by having you imagine the soldiers you recruit being gunned down by Solid, but nope, it's just sorta kinda implied that Diamond Dogs becomes Outer Heaven.
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From the trailers my thinking was going to be Skull Face and BB team up to fight Zero since they both have a massive grudge and hatred for him. I figured that's why he landed on the helipad and put his men's guns down and the metal gear he showed BB was a reclaimed Zeke. Instead we learn that Zero didn't try to kill BB and that he basically never had a grudge and was a vegetable for like 40 years. It kind of killed the feud between the two since one or the other was bed ridden for the majority. It kind of takes away from BB's epilogue in 4 where he reflects on his great sense of longing and regret for what happened between the two.

I really wish there was more a descent for Diamond Dogs towards becoming Outer Heaven. They start of as mercenaries doing wetwork for money with no just cause or greater good like Miller says but its just to get money to fight cypher but over time they start having to make more and more moral compromises. In order to combat Zero they have to side with Skull Face which would challenged BB and Miller's relationship, they are forced to use the child soldiers they start targeting anyone who steps on the battlefield regardless of who they are.

Miller is also kind of incompetent or just an asshole the entire game. He flat out tells Snake that he tried to rebuild MSF while BB was in a coma but no one wanted to follow him. Then the rest of the game he fights Snake on a lot of his decisions like Quiet to the point of threatening to shoot him down over it. Then he causes the men to distrust to point it ends in bloodshed by being so paranoid about cypher. The one time Snake asks him for backup he just doesn't deliver and he just kind of hangs out in a helicopter and does nothing instead. Then he kind of throws a hissy fit when Ocelot tells him Big Boss's plan and tries to act like a tough guy to Ocelot and we all know how that turned out.

I also wished when you beat the game you got the option to use Ocelot in the normal game instead of just FOBs and could use normal BB as a character too.
 
Alex Poulos said:
Yeah, but didn't Solidus killed Raiden's parents? That would be reason enough for Raiden to hate him.
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Well, I think its refering to his actions as a whole rather than just that detail. Solidus did awful things under the guise that the end justified the means and that he would always be remembered, he was still bad but compared to the patriots, he's the lesser one.
 
The handsome tard said:
Well, I think its refering to his actions as a whole rather than just that detail. Solidus did awful things under the guise that the end justified the means and that he would always be remembered, he was still bad but compared to the patriots, he's the lesser one.
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Solidus is probably one of the most underrated Metal Gear Villains in my opinion.
 
the autist of dojima said:
Maybe kojima should had focused less on creating stupid merch and hanging out with hollywood actors and more on actually finishing the game
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See I used to slightly buy Konami's excuse that Kojima fucked around for seven years and that's why MGSV is unfinished but Death Stranding looks to be much more technically and artistically ambitious than MGSV and has had a reasonably fast development time so now I'm not so sure.
 
Ruin said:
See I used to slightly buy Konami's excuse that Kojima fucked around for seven years and that's why MGSV is unfinished but Death Stranding looks to be much more technically and artistically ambitious than MGSV and has had a reasonably fast development time so now I'm not so sure.
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I think thats due to the fact that sony has been tard wrangling kojima more and telling him he can go fuck off with his hollywood buddys after he finishes the game
Hell, i still dont see norman reedus using puma boots or guillermo del toro using not adidas and sporting a custom made watch that kojima used in the 80s
adidas.jpg
 
the autist of dojima said:
I think thats due to the fact that sony has been tard wrangling kojima more and telling him he can go fuck off with his hollywood buddys after he finishes the game
Hell, i still dont see norman reedus using puma boots or guillermo del toro using not adidas and sporting a custom made watch that kojima used in the 80s
View attachment 928506
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Eh Konami is the company that killed Metal Gear, Silent Hill, and Castlevania to make gacha games and stupid slot machines so I guess I'm reluctant to take anything they say at face value.
 
Burned Man said:
From the trailers my thinking was going to be Skull Face and BB team up to fight Zero since they both have a massive grudge and hatred for him. I figured that's why he landed on the helipad and put his men's guns down and the metal gear he showed BB was a reclaimed Zeke. Instead we learn that Zero didn't try to kill BB and that he basically never had a grudge and was a vegetable for like 40 years. It kind of killed the feud between the two since one or the other was bed ridden for the majority. It kind of takes away from BB's epilogue in 4 where he reflects on his great sense of longing and regret for what happened between the two.
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That's what I was thinking as well. Maybe at the beginning or during the mid/mid-late portion of the game Big Boss and Skullface team up, but as the plot goes on Big Boss betrays Skullface due to the events from 9 years ago and his growing lust for revenge against Zero. Though, this would be pretty hard to pull off with the Venom Snake twist. I didn't really mind the whole "Zero never really had a grudge" reveal about Zero. If anything, it showed just how large and chaotic of an organization Cipher/The Patriots were and that one man couldn't control it all.

I really wish there was more a descent for Diamond Dogs towards becoming Outer Heaven. They start of as mercenaries doing wetwork for money with no just cause or greater good like Miller says but its just to get money to fight cypher but over time they start having to make more and more moral compromises. In order to combat Zero they have to side with Skull Face which would challenged BB and Miller's relationship, they are forced to use the child soldiers they start targeting anyone who steps on the battlefield regardless of who they are.
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I don't really have much to add to this. I was hoping to see DD become Outer Heaven, or at least show signs of it becoming Outer Heaven, but nothing really changes. We're still Diamond Dogs by the end of the game with no change in morals, unless you count building nukes to be a change yet there's not really a noticeable change. Sure, you can slap on the Outer Heaven logo, but that's about it. No uniform changes, no change in location, etc. It all remains so stagnant.

Then he causes the men to distrust to point it ends in bloodshed by being so paranoid about cypher.
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Whooooooaaaaaaah, wait, when did this happen?! It's been awhile since I played the game but holy shit I don't remember anything that brutal happening!

Then he kind of throws a hissy fit when Ocelot tells him Big Boss's plan and tries to act like a tough guy to Ocelot and we all know how that turned out.
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It would have been better if he tried to change Venom's/The Medic's mind about Outer Heaven, try to break his loyalty to Big Boss in order to fight back against Outer Heaven but fail. This could have led into him training Solid Snake and make him into the man that Venom never was.

I also wished when you beat the game you got the option to use Ocelot in the normal game instead of just FOBs and could use normal BB as a character too.
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I heard that this was because of "immersion issues", but that doesn't make a lick of fuckin sense when we can play as blocky Solid Snake, blocky Cyborg Ninja, and Raiden from Rising, yet none of the characters from MGS5.
 
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