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- Jun 29, 2013
The 3DS version gave MGS3 the same mechanics as MGS4 so they'll probably do something like that. Not sure if a direct port will work; do modern consoles even use pressure sensitivity?
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- Dec 13, 2016
As far as I know, the PS4 doesn't have pressure-sensitivity. The only ones I know for a fact that have it are the PS2 and PS3.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2019
MGS4 certainly has it's moments, but I just hate shit like retconning Vamp as not supernatural and the over reliance on "nano machines" as a plot device.
The more time goes on the more I respect Kojima's original decision to end the storyline with Sons of Liberty, which sure, was a bold idea, but leaving stuff to our imagination is better than what we got in 4.
The OG Xbox had pressure sensitive buttons, which is why the volleyball felt worse in Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 over Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball.
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- Jul 17, 2016
He probably also did the same thing with Ocelot's possession by Liquid. I always assumed that by revealing his father was The Sorrow, Kojima's original idea was that Ocelot had similar powers.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
MGS4 is a game that constantly alternates between being the best game in the series and the worst
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
Hey, Handsome Tard here, back after the Doxxing Scare. Turns out my flextape-Hyperion fortress kept me safe (also a VPN didnt hurt). Aaaaanyway...
About Vamp, well, the series keeps using supernatural elements but it does feel like it started to almost because ashamed of it by the time 4 happened (1 had Psycho Mantis, 2 had Fortune actually stopping bullets with no magnetic device and 3 had the sorrow). I think its suppose to add to the somewhat cynical/nihilistic tone that 4 was going for at first (like that codec call between Otacon pretty much saying to Snake that him beating Raven on that tank was "unrealistic/impossible"...forgetting that he is Snake and the impossible is kind of what he makes possible on a constant basis). I always liked Vamp in 4 but I do admit that the whole nano-machines giving him Wolverine type healing was a bit forced (but be honest, going the other extreme and saying he is an actual vampire would be going too far, wouldnt it?), I really think Kojima wrote himself into a corner there so he embraced how insane nano-machines are and just went for it. Kind of always made me wonder why the fuck couldnt they give some of those OP nano-machines to Old Snake to stop or reduce his accelerated aging, or hell, I even imagined a HISHE styled scene of sorts.
Old Snake: Wait wait wait wait....you created nano-machines that can actually give you a super healing factor?!
Naomi: Yes but-
Old Snake: So aw, tell me, can you make Nano-machines that....
*later*
Snake: *back to his MGS2 self*Hey guys, Im back to my "old" self, hehehe.
Otacon: Good thing nano-machines can kind of do anything now.
Naomi: But wouldnt it be better to accept your mortality for one final mission?
Snake:....yeah but you know, kind of can do said mission better being young again and I want to, like, live after this. Why do I die while everyone else lives? Anyway...
Later...
Liquid Ocelot: FIGHT ME SN-
Snake: *CQC him easily to the ground* There.
Liquid Ocelot: RAH!.....you know, this went better in my head....you are pretty good tho...Rahaa *dies*
Snake: Man, things are so much easier now. Imagine if I was still old.
Liquid Ocelot: oh FYI, I was faking. Im not Liquid, just really crazy for your dad...no homo...kind of. *dies for real*
Snake:......
Otacon: man, its great how things worked out. Usually there is always some sort of terrible event centered around me.
Naomi: .......I have cancer
Otacon: YOU HAVE WHA-
THE END
....
Big Boss: its been a while, Snake-
Snake: *literally CQC him to the ground*
Big Boss: GRAH!....This could have gone better....This is...quite anti-climatic, isnt it? *dies*
Snake:.....well, that happened....who is the guy in the wheel chair?
I respectfully disagree. I still think him just stopping in Sons of Liberty would have been worse in the long term. I did really like what we got on 4, sure, everyone can say that this and that could have been done better but I do think the last acts are one of the best in MG history (the microwave hall sequence, the fight between Old Snake and Liquid Ocelot and the ending redeem most flaws to me).
About Vamp, well, the series keeps using supernatural elements but it does feel like it started to almost because ashamed of it by the time 4 happened (1 had Psycho Mantis, 2 had Fortune actually stopping bullets with no magnetic device and 3 had the sorrow). I think its suppose to add to the somewhat cynical/nihilistic tone that 4 was going for at first (like that codec call between Otacon pretty much saying to Snake that him beating Raven on that tank was "unrealistic/impossible"...forgetting that he is Snake and the impossible is kind of what he makes possible on a constant basis). I always liked Vamp in 4 but I do admit that the whole nano-machines giving him Wolverine type healing was a bit forced (but be honest, going the other extreme and saying he is an actual vampire would be going too far, wouldnt it?), I really think Kojima wrote himself into a corner there so he embraced how insane nano-machines are and just went for it. Kind of always made me wonder why the fuck couldnt they give some of those OP nano-machines to Old Snake to stop or reduce his accelerated aging, or hell, I even imagined a HISHE styled scene of sorts.
Old Snake: Wait wait wait wait....you created nano-machines that can actually give you a super healing factor?!
Naomi: Yes but-
Old Snake: So aw, tell me, can you make Nano-machines that....
*later*
Snake: *back to his MGS2 self*Hey guys, Im back to my "old" self, hehehe.
Otacon: Good thing nano-machines can kind of do anything now.
Naomi: But wouldnt it be better to accept your mortality for one final mission?
Snake:....yeah but you know, kind of can do said mission better being young again and I want to, like, live after this. Why do I die while everyone else lives? Anyway...
Later...
Liquid Ocelot: FIGHT ME SN-
Snake: *CQC him easily to the ground* There.
Liquid Ocelot: RAH!.....you know, this went better in my head....you are pretty good tho...Rahaa *dies*
Snake: Man, things are so much easier now. Imagine if I was still old.
Liquid Ocelot: oh FYI, I was faking. Im not Liquid, just really crazy for your dad...no homo...kind of. *dies for real*
Snake:......
Otacon: man, its great how things worked out. Usually there is always some sort of terrible event centered around me.
Naomi: .......I have cancer
Otacon: YOU HAVE WHA-
THE END
....
Big Boss: its been a while, Snake-
Snake: *literally CQC him to the ground*
Big Boss: GRAH!....This could have gone better....This is...quite anti-climatic, isnt it? *dies*
Snake:.....well, that happened....who is the guy in the wheel chair?
Im absolutely sure that this is where Kojima was heading because the whole "nah, he was faking it" felt so out of left field as if to try to force a twist. But it does show how almost insanely loyal Ocelot was to go through all of this just for his ambiguiously gay bro Big Boss.
I think thats the best way to describe 4. You either love it or hate it (I happen to lean towards the former but I do recognize why some people see it as the latter).
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2019
I think Vamp was simply meant to be ambiguous, not quite a full on vampire in the traditional sense, but there was something supernatural about him, I mean how do nanomachines explain him being able to SIT ON WATER?
The supernatural was simply something that existed in the Metal Gear universe, Psycho Mantis was psychic, Raven was tapped into the spiritual, The Sorrow was literally a ghost and Vamp was some type of mysterious paranormal being, I liked that because it was one of the things that set Metal Gear apart from typical military fiction.
But like you said it seemed like Kojima got cold feet about it at some point and changed his mind and wanted to say everything instead had a scientific explanation, the Liquid Ocelot thing is another example of that, to say that it was all just psychosomatic is stupid when in 2 Ocelot undergoes physical changes to become more like Liquid, including his voice.
I love Sons of Liberty, I think it's a brilliant game that was simply ahead of its time, but in many ways 4 feels like it was an "apology" for 2 and I don't think Kojima had anything to apologize for.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
Well, it was different times. 2 is the definition of an underrated classic that only now is getting the propor recognition as a modern 1984. Everyone got pissy that they didnt control Snake (instead of daring to see him in a different angle, perhaps seeing he may not be that great of a guy possibly even if he does turn out to be good at the end). Kojima kind of wrote himself into a corner with all the plotlines he would have to stitch together to a satisfying conclusion...guess he didnt want to go overboard with the supernatural elements so he decided to go the other extreme and say it was all science (even tho most of the "science" in it are borderline supernatural too). I really feel like he regretted killing off Liquid in MGS 1 so he decided to bring him back through Ocelot, then everyone got pissy over that and he decided to go for the "JK, just faking it" approach...On that note, why even bring Vamp back in 4? Felt like he didnt want to bother making a new villain so he brought Vamp back from 2 (Kojima does like to do that, doesnt he? He does it AGAIN in 5 with the Burning Man...even tho it never EVER made sense to me, even less than Vamp. But I digress).
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2014
The best thing about Snake being a NPC in 2 is that we see him in a position where he isn't confused by everything and asking questions he knows the answers to. That said it would have been cool to have had some playable sequences showing the exploits of Lieutenant Junior Grade Iroquois Plisken the confused navy seal.
Vamp's return wasn't that bad since his "death" in 2 was just him getting shot, something that already happened several times by that point. It gave Raiden a villain to fight too since he doesn't have the strongest of ties to either Ocelot or Liquid. I imagine the nanomachines angle was made just to have a way to kill him in a way that wouldn't involve holy water and stabbing a piece of the true cross through his heart.
I don't think Kojima was trying to say it was all science because when you kill Screaming Mantis Psycho Mantis's ghost appears and controls her before getting exorcised by The Sorrow. I'd like to think Vamp is supernatural man being further enhanced by technology. He always had the abilities which is how he survived that time a church fell on him and he could only drink blood but later the nanomachines allowed him faster recovery from the wounds sustained during the Big Shell incident and without them would have died from or at least taking a much longer time to come back from.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2016
I jumped onto Metal Gear after 4 came out so to me it always seemed like a logical conclusion to the series. 4's got some problems to be sure; the second half of the game throws out the whole "sneaking during a war zone" mechanic, which is something I really like about the first two chapters, some revelations aren't handled as well as they should have been, and the game can very very wordy. But as a game that tries to wrap up every loose thread to a story as convoluted as Metal Gear's, I think it does a damn good job.
For me, the game works on an emotional level. You have Snake, whose body is starting to fail him as he's thrown into one last mission in a world he barely recognizes. I love stories about old heroes saddling up to do one last job (Logan and Unforgiven come to mind), and in that respect MGS4 is brutal, especially towards the end when Snake gets the hell kicked out of him and the only thing keeping him going is his sheer willpower. The conclusion with Big Boss goes on a smidge too long, but it ultimately works for me because of how Big Boss and Snake finally make peace in Big Boss' final moments (the ensuing credits playing that rendition of Here's To You certainly helps). Raiden's whole arc is also fantastic since it builds on the revelations of his past at the end of 2 and concludes with him getting the family he never had.
4's probably my 3rd favorite Metal Gear, with my first two being MGS1 and 2.
For me, the game works on an emotional level. You have Snake, whose body is starting to fail him as he's thrown into one last mission in a world he barely recognizes. I love stories about old heroes saddling up to do one last job (Logan and Unforgiven come to mind), and in that respect MGS4 is brutal, especially towards the end when Snake gets the hell kicked out of him and the only thing keeping him going is his sheer willpower. The conclusion with Big Boss goes on a smidge too long, but it ultimately works for me because of how Big Boss and Snake finally make peace in Big Boss' final moments (the ensuing credits playing that rendition of Here's To You certainly helps). Raiden's whole arc is also fantastic since it builds on the revelations of his past at the end of 2 and concludes with him getting the family he never had.
4's probably my 3rd favorite Metal Gear, with my first two being MGS1 and 2.
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- Aug 11, 2019
Again I do see your point and perhaps thats what Kojima wanted but still, felt like 4 needed to explain things a little bit better, perhaps having a scene that makes sure that Vamp's HF is natural, its just extremely enhanced by the nano machines (and then again, I doubt it would have grown limbs back or even kept him alive after a decapitation, which does feel like something Raiden should have tried right off the bat in 4)
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2014
I can agree with that. I think at the very least some (possibly optional) codec exposition explaining some of his exploits or service record before Naomi or Doctor Clarke got involved with him. Raiden should have also decapitated him after the nanomachine suppressor too just to be safe.
At the end of the day I love 4. I haven't played it in forever since I don't own a ps3 but I have watched it a couple times and there are still plenty of scenes and even little things that get me in the feels. I think it works as a satisfying conclusion to the series and wraps up everyone's story. As much as I like the games that followed and love Big Boss I do think they detract from 4's clear conclusion to the series. It doesn't help that all of BB game's tend to end with him foreshadowing Outer Heaven but not actually doing it.
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- Aug 11, 2019
Same, I call 4 a flawed but still satisfying conclusion to not only Solid's story but to the MGS saga in general. To the point it feels anything that came after it (Peace Walker, Rising and 5) just felt unnecessary (but still good games).
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- May 1, 2018
Peace walker was just a giant waste of time and its plot only works if you treat big boss as an actual retard that needs something to be explained to him several times before he does the complete opposite
Rising is just a fun batshit insane story
And 5 only serves as a what an asshole story
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
PW...yeah its a thing about the Snakes constantly asking things they should know, it runs in the family. But at least it did show John slowly transitioning into the Big Boss we all know and...love?
Rising is mostly gameplay over substance, awesome gameplay Im saddened wasnt replicted in other games (cuz we aint getting a sequel, thats for fucking sure). It tried to have some deep elements but they felt out of place or at least felt like they didnt have a proper build up (not counting stuff from the DLC).
5 is basically a reverse Sons of Liberty, perhaps showing brilliantly the difference between David and John. Snake told Jack to follow his own destiny and forge his own identity...be his own master. Big Boss made you love being "him" to the point he tells you/Venom to be HIM (Im never truly sure if he truly believes what he says or if he just wants someone as skilled like Venom to be his decoy in case of convinent death in case Outer Heaven goes into the shitter.)
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- Jun 29, 2013
My favorite theory was that Ocelot inherited Sorrow's spirit channeling. Would have just made as much sense.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
Indeed, Kojima had the perfect "excuse" for Liquid Ocelot (even explaining how his voice turned into Liquid's). But either because he wanted to tone down the supernatural tones or because it was "predictable", he went into the "JK, im just faking it" route. It would be understandable that Liquid would want to use Ocelot to get his revenge on Snake and the patriots, with Ocelot constantly fighting for control (perhaps Liquid Ocelot was the state where they "mutually" agree on a goal and thus became "fusion", hence the name)
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
MGSV had the perfect opportunity to bring this mechanic back. After all the two locations are Afghanistan where the the sand niggers are trying to get the cold niggers to leave them alone and Africa where rival PMCs are fighting proxy battles. Plus XOF is involved with both of these conflicts (another odd thing is Despite XOF being the main antagonists you only fight them in a couple missions. Hell the game could’ve gone one step forward and allowed you to deploy your own men to,actively fight alongside you these scenarios. Maybe even have other players send their own troops to either help or hinder you.
On another note I found out that David Hayter once voiced captain America and I finally realized why Canderous from KOTOR sounds so familiar
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- Joined
- Jun 18, 2019
I'm probably harsher on 4 than I should be, I don't know why I find it so hard to forgive the game's flaws, maybe it was just a victim of my own hype, I don't know.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2019
I hated 4 when it came out but with the hype gone I grew to like it quite a bit during my pre-Phantom Pain marathon.