Metal Gear

[Zenos Yae Viator]

I think kojimbo resents the fact that people love Big Boss despite the fact dude was a legit monster. Thats the interesting part. I don't care about his idiotic highschool level idiotic political takes

I do not think so, he also went on to write Higgs, a character people also love, and he's an even bigger monster.

he probably only cares that people didn't give a fuck about his anti-war angle though.

 

[El Chacal De La Trompeta]

I have tried to play ds 3 times but i just can't. Same with Ghost of Tishhima. Rate me retarded but now i play games for the history. The less time i have the shit i'm playing better have a good story

 

[Your Girlfriend's Dad]

I adore that this series lives in a quantum superposition of being retarded campy bullshit and also being schizophrenically detailed and covert in its plot. It's well thought out nonsense glued together with countless retcons and I actually just love every second of it.

Also, I really enjoyed Delta. Just had a grand old time with it. I can understand why others might not, but money well spent as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

I have tried to play ds 3 times but i just can't. Same with Ghost of Tishhima. Rate me retarded but now i play games for the history. The less time i have the shit i'm playing better have a good story

they story of DS is good but it sure is fucking loopy, I think it reaches a point near the end where it pushes the limits of basically anyone who plays it, and its frankly only fun delivering shit like the first time to each location, and after that the rest of the game is "solving" the delivery system with roads and ziplines, making it fucking pointless.
also everyone gives an amazing performance except Norman Reedus, who is either "good" or "dogshit" dependent on the scene, Troy Baker as Higgs is out of this world good just on the performance alone, same with Madds, whoever the fuck played the Black Guy, and the chick who played Amelie.

Save your time, the actual gameplay is a cute idea but just watch the cutscenes and then just inject the idea that you were longhauling niknaks to people for hours inbetween to give the game width.

The sequel, in typical Kojima fashion, is mostly a retread with, thank god, more Higgs to balance that out, its way to fucking Koombaya bullshit and at the end I wanted Higgs to extinct them lol.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

I like John Cygan as Solidus, but it's a shame he couldn't have shared a VA with Snake/Pliskin. So much context is lost from this scene (for example) when Solidus and Pliskin don't sound alike.

He even does the repeating thing. It must have been so much easier to sell the "main villain claims to be Solid Snake" thing when he sounds just like him.

 

[El Chacal De La Trompeta]

Also, I really enjoyed Delta.

it was great- you can totally can go wrong buying full prices these days but delta was exactly what i wanted. metal gear fucking 3 at full 4 fucking k

 

[Captain Syrup]

I like John Cygan as Solidus, but it's a shame he couldn't have shared a VA with Snake/Pliskin. So much context is lost from this scene (for example) when Solidus and Pliskin don't sound alike.

You know, I hadn’t thought about this in like ten years, but back in the day there was this theory that Liquid’s brown hair was just bleached in the Sahara and he came out looking like a Malibu surfer, and his accent, oh that’s because he grew up in the UK.

Then the whole storyline went up in smoke once they rolled out Solidus and later Richard Doyle’s Big Boss.

I like those actors, but it really makes you wonder what the point of the clone plot even was if none of them look, sound, or act remotely similar. Feels like one of those leftover ‘90s sci-fi tropes when every story just had to have clones, even if it made no sense.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

View attachment 8028052

You know, I hadn’t thought about this in like ten years, but back in the day there was this theory that Liquid’s brown hair was just bleached in the Sahara and he came out looking like a Malibu surfer, and his accent, oh that’s because he grew up in the UK.

Then the whole storyline went up in smoke once they rolled out Solidus and later Richard Doyle’s Big Boss.

I like those actors, but it really makes you wonder what the point of the clone plot even was if none of them look, sound, or act remotely similar. Feels like one of those leftover ‘90s sci-fi tropes when every story just had to have clones, even if it made no sense.

They aren't perfect clones, some small bit of Eva is there too, they were as engineered as they could at the time

 

[Your Girlfriend's Dad]

They aren't perfect clones, some small bit of Eva is there too, they were as engineered as they could at the time

I don't think EVA was a gene donor. I thought it was some Japanese broad.

 

[Wesker]

While MGS4 hate is overblown, that's not to say much of it's retconning plot points should be outright ignored.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

I don't think EVA was a gene donor. I thought it was some Japanese broad.

Whover the fuck was the mom, and they also fucked around with dominant and recessive shit for no sane reason

 

[Captain Syrup]

I don't think EVA was a gene donor. I thought it was some Japanese broad.

I thought Eva was supposed to be Chinese, but like… smeared in so much makeup that she ends up looking Slavic?

But in MGS4 she looks like Jane Lynch on a bad day, so idk.

Update: Ok, I had to check the wiki, and it kind of explains it: she was born in Idaho, and for some inscrutable reason the Philosophers decide to ship her off to China. Then after Snake Eater, she gets recruited by Zero to be a surrogate for Big Boss’s kids, despite having no prior conversation with Zero.

 

[The handsome tard]

View attachment 8028052

You know, I hadn’t thought about this in like ten years, but back in the day there was this theory that Liquid’s brown hair was just bleached in the Sahara and he came out looking like a Malibu surfer, and his accent, oh that’s because he grew up in the UK.

Then the whole storyline went up in smoke once they rolled out Solidus and later Richard Doyle’s Big Boss.

I like those actors, but it really makes you wonder what the point of the clone plot even was if none of them look, sound, or act remotely similar. Feels like one of those leftover ‘90s sci-fi tropes when every story just had to have clones, even if it made no sense.

Like @Zenos Yae Viator said, clones in MGS arent exactly the usual clone and there is argument its not even cloning by itself but genetically tempered offspring brought by a surrogate mother. Eva in MGS4 did explain that the process didnt have the trio being created in a test tube but still grown inside a womb (Solid and Liquid were her's while Solidus was born from some other mother)

All that to say that despite using the term clone, L.E.T. was more akin to a genetic eugenics experiment rather that straight up cloning ala Clone Wars. So the trio having unique traits separate from Big Boss isnt that farfetched, nvm environmental elements could have affected some stuff too (I guess it just so happened that David got Young John's voice to a T and even the latter's voice would change over time).

Then after Snake Eater, she gets recruited by Zero to be a surrogate for Big Boss’s kids, despite having no prior conversation with Zero.

She was one of the founding members of the Patriots, right? I mean, iirc, China dumped her after she brought a fake copy of the philosopher's legacy and Zero offered her to join them, which she accepted. She still loved John despite the fact I can imagine he didnt want anything with her anymore. So when the opportunity arose for her to literally carry his children, she accepted, which only made John even more disolusioned with the Patriots, to the point he left to create his own private army.

I guess what confuses me a bit is that Eva did tell Solid that altho John never wanted him, she did, so why didnt she try to find a way to raise David and Eli (at least the former since the latter always seemed to be a little shit from the get go). She and Ocelot only left the patriots officially when Big Boss was torched to shit by Solid in MG2 and Zero placed his burnt body in some complicated (as it usually is in MGS) AI contraption that kept him alive but barely.

Its no wonder MGS4 had so much cutscene, the exposition required to explain how the crew of Snake Eater eventually led to the big bads of the whole franchise was off the charts, even more that this was the finale so they wouldnt have a better moment.

Whover the fuck was the mom, and they also fucked around with dominant and recessive shit for no sane reason

It was all an attempt to "replicate" Big Boss, believing that it was all in the genes (when the truth is that its a mixture of gene, memes and the human spirit, too many variables to create a "perfect replica")

It wasnt sane nor moral (even less so that these individuals would only be allowed to live up to their 40's and then age horrifingly fast to death). And Im very sure its one of the many reasons John left.

I like John Cygan as Solidus

Solidus really feels like the type of the character that would be the hero in a different plot (depending on how you see it, MGS4 is that plot, except David is a moral man).

His intentions were to free humanity from digital control from the patriot but it was mostly done both as revenge and to make sure the american people remember him on the level of the historic figures. He also didnt give a shit who would need to be hurt for said goal of freedom.

He and Armstrong have quite some similarities, at least in the sense of desiring freedom even at the cost of innocent lives.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Zero placed his burnt body in some complicated (as it usually is in MGS) AI contraption that kept him alive but barely.

Zero did not, Zero was a vegetable before Venom and John ever woke up prior to the actual events of V, by then the Parasites had put him completely in a coma, Zero's last couple of acts was to protect and fund Big Boss, and to create the plan to make a body double (Venom) so that he could fuck off, in the end, Zero wasn't nearly as antagonistic as Big Boss thought, nor was he ever in control of the Patriot A.I.'s as they were finished post-coma, though he absolutely commissioned them to control the Globe.

I think he just presumed Zero was hostile, when in reality Zero worshiped the ground Big Boss walked on, afterall alot of their conflict was enflamed by Skullface, because he fuckin hated both of them so god damn much.

The Patriots being so insidious is likely because Donald Anderson made like 80% of them and Strangelove was busy being killed by Cripple boy to put any checks and balances on them, so the entire Post MGSV driving force was created because too many smart people were dead and the literal puppetmaster was in a coma, and the big damn hero was busy training Child Soldiers in South East Asia.

 

[El Chacal De La Trompeta]

You can make a full numered metal gear after Peace Walker, Eva in Hanói and ending with LET.
Do it konami

 

[Aunt Carol]

L.E.T. was more akin to a genetic eugenics experiment rather that straight up cloning ala Clone Wars. So the trio having unique traits separate from Big Boss isnt that farfetched, nvm environmental elements could have affected some stuff too (I guess it just so happened that David got Young John's voice to a T and even the latter's voice would change over time).

The duplicate Solid/Naked voice thing is reasonable in-universe; they managed to Boys from Brazil David into having an accurately neglectful childhood, beginning military career and love of smoking.

Solid was given the depressive, "gonna grumble and repeat what you say while basically cooperating to get through this, gonna leave humanity and live in the woods like a bear, a big drunk bear" Big Boss traits. Remember BiBo tried to be a trail guide pre-Portable Ops.

Liquid got the "gonna take my shirt off, recruit a bunch of dudes with weird powers and overthrow the government while talking philosophy" Big Boss traits.

Meanwhile someone sent baby Solidus to elocution class because they had a plan for him in politics.

I still think there's money in a Princess Maker mobile MGS game, where you get a baby Snake clone and try to give it the right amount of training/user fights/psychological trauma to turn into one of 108 possible adult Snakes!!

 

[TheArtilleryman]

Japanese Youtube Big Saru has plenty of good videos making an absolute mockery of the AI in MGS3. Hyper autistic levels of knowing the guard patterns and all the tricks. They have a very informative video on accidental kills also.

 

[The handsome tard]

Remember BiBo tried to be a trail guide pre-Portable Ops.

You know, between this and David raising huskies, it just makes you wish you could see these characters when they are just having a casual day with no mission, no danger, no stakes. Just wake up, go on a routine and mostly keeping to themselves. I can only imagine how John was like as a guide, dealing with normies who have no idea of what he did for this nation and world. I want to believe most of them treated him with respect but knowing how a theme of this series is soldiers have a hard time adjusting to life outside of the battlefield, probably wasnt a pleasant.

Liquid got the "gonna take my shirt off, recruit a bunch of dudes with weird powers and overthrow the government while talking philosophy"

Looking back, was there any appearance where Liquid's torso wasnt bare for the world to see? I think outside of his first couple appearances in MGS 1 like the torture scene and chatting with Ocelot (even then, its clear he just has his large coat closed, he isnt wearing anything underneath), I legit dont think so.

He worked extremely hard for those abs and pecs and he refuses to hide them even in extremely cold ass temperatures.

"You will gaze upon my superior gains, brother!!" *arm gesture*

Zero did not, Zero was a vegetable before Venom and John ever woke up prior to the actual events of V, by then the Parasites had put him completely in a coma, Zero's last couple of acts was to protect and fund Big Boss, and to create the plan to make a body double (Venom) so that he could fuck off, in the end, Zero wasn't nearly as antagonistic as Big Boss thought, nor was he ever in control of the Patriot A.I.'s as they were finished post-coma, though he absolutely commissioned them to control the Globe.

I think he just presumed Zero was hostile, when in reality Zero worshiped the ground Big Boss walked on, afterall alot of their conflict was enflamed by Skullface, because he fuckin hated both of them so god damn much.

I was mostly considering the lore up to MGS4 but I suppose that is true, I guess Im not a fan of the MGS5 retcons but I will admit that there is an element of tragedy in the fact that Zero wanted to bury the hatchet with Big Boss, likely after undergoing a "Are we the baddies" style moment (alongside with knowing his time with a functional brain is limited and Skullface is playing both of them). It does make me wonder what would have happened had John just miraculously just woke up right when Zero asked him to and he believed and accepted the olive branch. Maybe they would have a mature discussion over what they are doing is truly The Boss's will or not and, well, what to do now that Zero's time as a true man capable of thought and reason is fleeing.

It would have been an interesting AU

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

I was mostly considering the lore up to MGS4 but I suppose that is true, I guess Im not a fan of the MGS5 retcons but I will admit that there is an element of tragedy in the fact that Zero wanted to bury the hatchet with Big Boss, likely after undergoing a "Are we the baddies" style moment (alongside with knowing his time with a functional brain is limited and Skullface is playing both of them). It does make me wonder what would have happened had John just miraculously just woke up right when Zero asked him to and he believed and accepted the olive branch. Maybe they would have a mature discussion over what they are doing is truly The Boss's will or not and, well, what to do now that Zero's time as a true man capable of thought and reason is fleeing.

New Info isn't retcon in the traditional sense, from Big Bosses perspective, everything he said at the end of MGS4 was true, he never learned the truth, and no one told him, the only men who really knew everything were Ocelot, and Kaz, and Kaz who had a very very hair trigger on perceived betrayal due to his youth, flipped on Big Boss for pulling the Venom bullshit switcharoo on him, which is fair, imagine you'd literally get tortured and die for a guy, but in reality he abandoned you to go start his REAL Army, and left you with some weird brainwashed stitched up doppleganger.
and by then Big Boss was full in Zanzibar Land his last conscious moments are fighting his own clone and then waking up 20 years later..

I do love the central theme of MGS though, and its CONTROL, and it can best be exemplified by the main people being CONTROLLED.
The Boss is the first person that is controlled, the Philosophers use her to do all sorts of shit, and they control her actions, and even take away her newborn son
Then, Big Boss/John is the one who everyone wants to control, Cipher wants him to do this that and the other, be their face, its a control of both identity and purpose
Venom is the next layer, they control his thoughts, his identity and his emotions,
Finally, the True puppet masters step forth, and they have their next level of control over their target, Solid Snake, who they control like a weapon unlike the rest before him, he has no context for the things he does, he simply takes out The Patriots many enemies, Venom, Big Boss, Foxhound..

then they really up their game, Raiden is the next level on that, where they use the data from Solid to try and "make" anyone into a Solid Snake, they control his history and his future, they have so perfected their control they can tell Raiden to his face that he will fight and kill Solidus, the only impediment to their plans, and that they own him, and since they made sure he would do it by hand picking an ex-Solidus child solider and running every aspect of his life for a decade, he does just that.

and Finally, they put all this into work and put it into action to control Conflict itself, and everyone on the battlefield, down to what they feel, think and what they do, who they fight, why they fight, everything.

 

[Aunt Carol]

I can only imagine how John was like as a guide, dealing with normies who have no idea of what he did for this nation and world. I want to believe most of them treated him with respect but knowing how a theme of this series is soldiers have a hard time adjusting to life outside of the battlefield, probably wasnt a pleasant.

Big Boss only stopped being a hunting guide due to external forces--he was kidnapped into the San Hieronoymo Incident--so I like to think he might have had one chill year or two in his entire life.

Disillusioned and self-hating, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to tolerate hobnobbing with rich elites long enough to even get near that situation. It'd be much more in-character for young Big Boss to be living in an off-grid cabin, quietly watching the sunrise, keeping himself in ammo, fuel and dried beans by occasionally taking a pair of dentists out to get a bear and not die.

He worked extremely hard for those abs and pecs and he refuses to hide them even in extremely cold ass temperatures.

Hey, Solid explicitly got a nanomachine injection so he could tolerate the cold; maybe if you set an EMP off at Shadow Moses, amid all the chaos Liquid Snake would put on a sweater. There are much stupider uses of technology in this franchise.

Raiden is the next level on that, where they use the data from Solid to try and "make" anyone into a Solid Snake, they control his history and his future, they have so perfected their control they can tell Raiden to his face that he will fight and kill Solidus, the only impediment to their plans, and that they own him, and since they made sure he would do it by hand picking an ex-Solidus child solider and running every aspect of his life for a decade, he does just that.

Raiden couldn't have been the only Solidus alumnus that the Patriots had their eyes on. What if he slipped in the shower or something? After Big Shell, there were probably a handful of ex-child soldiers who totally thought they were in FOXHOUND, VR training, and whose contacts just suddenly went dark.

That'd be another fun concept for an interstitial game. They run into each other when they're all trying to track down the same AI girlfriend; bad news about your LDR, guys, but now you have comrades in arms.