Metal Gear

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I argue narratively MGS3 was the end. It was a huge letdown from what MGS2 was setting up. You can tell they gave up. Fun game, bad MGS story. Some things are better left a mystery. MGS2's setup with the patriots did not pay off in 3. It was fun to see the past but then they focused on that era in later games and arguably did it a bit better in some regard. The timeline was spoiled by MGS3 and every game after had to take place in the past instead of in an important era between MGS2 and MGS4. Or, 100 years before MGS2 like the final dialogue sequence suggested. Not in the cold war.
The way the cold war is handled in the MGS series feels botched likely cause of Kojima.
I suspect Tomokazu Fukushima had a larger hand than it seems in 1 and 2. In 3 he was reduced. He wrote Ghost Babel and it was pretty great as a 1.5 for GBC. He left during early development of MGS4 and his absence is noticeable.


I feel like MGS should have went further into the disturbing conspiracy atmosphere MGS2 had. Like sort of Deus Ex style tales about wars. All of it turned into weebshit stories and only an aspect of MGS2 returned in MGSV in terms of creepy lies but even that drops the ball fast with the goofier shit.
 
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30+GameOvers said:
If you know the game, sure. Thing is, in PW nearly every level is a linear hallway that ends in 2-3 minutes, so there is literally no reason not to just run past everybody unless you're looking for items. There is little consequences for getting caught, unlike in the older games where the enemy is both competent and depending on the game might not even stop respawning until you hide.

This is so confusing to me, there is so many different wildly different builds and strategies you can take with the kind of gear and even outfits you get, but there is just no reason to strategize at all unless you're going into a boss battle.
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I ended up liking Peace Walker, but only due to the base building shit. I didn't care about the story, the gameplay was mid-to-frustrating, but that tiny little Mother Base shit hooked me. All the corny names of the troops you aquired yourself, assigning them to teams and sending them on missions. In a roundabout way it did a better job of building up the legend and potential evil of Big Boss much better than ANY of the hacky and played out Koji stories post-MGS3. Big Boss was making an army and the side ops showed you the MSF were becoming a force to be reconned with - and then you started building a Metal Gear. Perfect way to end it, you can follow that trail right to Metal Gear 1 and Outer Heaven.

Instead we got MGSV with a try-hard twist, a half-finished story, a TAME AS FUCK Ocelot, a bitchy Master Miller, and even more cuckolded Huey, an old American scalper indian who fucks parasites, Kojima's wannabe foot-fetish bait (Quiet), and a boring as sin Keifer Sutherland Big Boss that NOBODY asked for.
 
Nameless One said:
I feel like MGS should have went further into the disturbing conspiracy atmosphere MGS2 had.
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This is why I hold MGS2 of all the others. Not the gameplay. But the atmosphere and cinematics. MGS3 is amazing, but it's too lighthearted for what proceeded it. Even MGS1 was darker.
 
ButterflyBarbie said:
MGS4 was fucking terrible and the beginning of the end and I will forever die on this hill
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I don't consider MGS4 canon since it's shit and the story is even more retarded than usual. The whole deal with Big Boss at the end is written more like a /v/ shitpost but it's actually canon. Fuck that, missing out on MGS4 takes away nothing from the franchise, except for a little bit of confusion at the start of Metal Gear Rising since those events are brought up in the first mission, I think.
Nameless One said:
It was a huge letdown from what MGS2 was setting up
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Wasn't MGS2 the last game Kojima wanted to make? I know that past a certain point he just wanted to drop MGS and work on something else but Konami forced him to keep working on the franchise, I dunno if it started with MGS2/3/4 tho.
Either way, MGS2 isn't meant to be followed up with anything, the ending is yours to interpret and even Snake straight up tells Raiden to move on at the end. The fact that we got MGS4 as an official successor is a disgrace, altho I do like the setting they crafted. Still, I liked how Survive handled the future of the MGS universe more, at least you can pull off more outlandish shit in a post apocalyptic world with zombies than in a proper mainline continuation.
Lone MacReady II said:
I ended up liking Peace Walker, but only due to the base building shit. I didn't care about the story, the gameplay was mid-to-frustrating, but that tiny little Mother Base shit hooked me. All the corny names of the troops you aquired yourself, assigning them to teams and sending them on missions. In a roundabout way it did a better job of building up the legend and potential evil of Big Boss much better than ANY of the hacky and played out Koji stories post-MGS3. Big Boss was making an army and the side ops showed you the MSF were becoming a force to be reconned with - and then you started building a Metal Gear. Perfect way to end it, you can follow that trail right to Metal Gear 1 and Outer Heaven.
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I agree, Peace Walker does a good job of setting up Snake as Big Boss and starts his path towards Outer Heaven. Gameplay wise, the game is very lacking at all fronts however, aside from the boss fights. I can't stress enough how much fun earning equipment and training your soldiers to face them off against vehicles/metal gears/a fucking dragon really is as a gameplay loop. Reminds me of that L4D esque horde mode from Survive and how the real fun of that game was grinding for equipment and levels so you could play more wave kino. That and monster hunter esque boss fights, but there is only like two of them there.

Yeah, I guess Metal Gear jumped the shark a few times. Nobody can even tell what Metal Gear is at this point, as a franchise. Some want the more oldschool espionage experiences like MGS1/MGS2 or even MG2 or Ghost Babel, others want the retro base building stuff from Big Boss era games, and then there is weirdos like me that like what I just described. If Konami was smart, they would try to appeal to all three groups instead of just making pachinko machines.
 
MGS4s gameplay was great it must be said, it's the story and pacing that went to dogshit in it. The moment I realised the guard who shit himself in MGS1 is now a goofball love interest for Meryl was when I realised there's no point trying to apply logic to the continuity, nor in forcing myself to believe any of this silly shit is epic. Prepared me for MGSV in that way.

Now, the stress meter, octocamo, guard interactions, all the fun weapons, and battlefield scenarios you creeped through in the first 2 acts? Kino. Like MGSV it was a solid frame that played really well and could have been a masterpiece, if only they got their priorities straight and didn't program it around a bad 10 hour movie. The series started and ended because of Kojima's cinema fetish.
 
TheArtilleryman said:
MGS4s gameplay was great it must be said, it's the story and pacing that went to dogshit in it. The moment I realised the guard who shit himself in MGS1 is now a goofball love interest for Meryl was when I realised there's no point trying to apply logic to the continuity, nor in forcing myself to believe any of this silly shit is epic. Prepared me for MGSV in that way.

Now, the stress meter, octocamo, guard interactions, all the fun weapons, and battlefield scenarios you creeped through in the first 2 acts? Kino. Like MGSV it was a solid frame that played really well and could have been a masterpiece, if only they got their priorities straight and didn't let Kojima insert a bad 10 hour movie inside it.
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MGS4 is a good tech demo, however not much of the actual mechanics are ever explored like they were in the first three MGS games. I would love a game that focuses on just 1 or 2 things in MGS4 and made a whole game out of it, personally the whole faction system/living battlefield and focus on Snake getting old would have been fine. I would love to see some more futuristic gadgets and weapons, ala Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter.
The story, what they've done with the characters and all the nostalgia-baiting? I could do without.
 
TheArtilleryman said:
MGS4s gameplay was great it must be said, it's the story and pacing that went to dogshit in it. The moment I realised the guard who shit himself in MGS1 is now a goofball love interest for Meryl was when I realised there's no point trying to apply logic to the continuity, nor in forcing myself to believe any of this silly shit is epic. Prepared me for MGSV in that way.
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Kojima is great at designing fun gameplay loops and including all manner of cool little details in his games (that tie into the gameplay loop too), but he should NEVER be allowed to write the plot, dialogue or lore, ever.

Metal Gear Solid seems like a genuine fluke considering every game he's made since then has been a narrative dud.
 
30+GameOvers said:
That's because he had a tard wrangler for MGS1-3. Since then he dropped off the earth, and we had MGS4/5 and Peace Walker to show us what happens without him.
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It's been mentioned in this thread multiple times, and as much I had a good time with Death Stranding (comfy gameplay and whatever, I'm like this, enjoying hours upon hours of Euro Truck Simulator 2 long hauls), Kojima should be thankful for the multiple people in charge that tried to keep him in check with his "out of this world" plans for stories and gameplay.

Death Stranding is the proof that he should be kept more in check.
 
30+GameOvers said:
Some want the more oldschool espionage experiences like MGS1/MGS2 or even MG2 or Ghost Babel, others want the retro base building stuff from Big Boss era games, and then there is weirdos like me that like what I just described. If Konami was smart, they would try to appeal to all three groups instead of just making pachinko machines.
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Metal Gear Tower Defense as a pay-to-win semi-idler mobile game would make bank, with unlockable heroes and the Metal Gears as wave bosses.

The only reason Konami hasn't is because they haven't thought of it yet. And here I am, not even using private tags.
 
30+GameOvers said:
That's because he had a tard wrangler for MGS1-3. Since then he dropped off the earth, and we had MGS4/5 and Peace Walker to show us what happens without him.
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People also forget - if Koji wasn't some obscure Jap for most of his career - Hollyjew Would Have Sued The Yellow Off Of Him. Everything in Metal Gear is essentially "ripping off" something else, just with an autistic Nippon twist. Don't get me wrong, that's what makes it good, but you simply cannot deny that a character like Solid Snake is just John Rambo + Snake Plissken. Colonel Campbell is literally just Colonel Trautman. The very boxart itself for the first Metal Gear game was just a shot of Kyle Reese from the Terminator... 1:1

There are 100+ different little nods and pieces of lore ripped off from other hollywood movies and TV shows that have been used across the series. Koji was a master of thievery repurposing western characters and memes for his own DeviantArt-tier OCs.... Metal Gear is a perfect storm of nerd memes and fanfiction, that's why it works, especially for westerners, but it was never truly original. Koji is damn lucky he had writers and producers who knew he was a discount Japanese Tom Clancy, and knew how to wrangle his weebery.
Wesker said:
This is why I hold MGS2 of all the others. Not the gameplay. But the atmosphere and cinematics. MGS3 is amazing, but it's too lighthearted for what proceeded it. Even MGS1 was darker.
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What's funny is that the bad guys win in MGS2 thanks to Raiden being an indecisive white-haired twink. Solidus was a patriot who loved his country. That's the sweet irony of MGS2, you play as this naiive boyscout being led through one of Solid Snake's triumphs thinking he's the good guy... and then you kill the one man trying to save America from unelected AI overlords. Congrats Jack, you shitty fucking Titanic reference (there's another one). You doomed the world to the Sons of the Patriots system...

I'd rather be a Son of Liberty. R.I.P. Solidus.
 
Lone MacReady II said:
the bad guys win in MGS2 thanks to Raiden being an indecisive white-haired twink. Solidus was a patriot who loved his country.
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You can't blame Raiden without blaming Ocelot; that's like blaming the kid at the counter for McDonald's corporate not having the Shamrock Shakes out yet.

Ocelot knew his and Solidus' goals aligned; if Ocelot had de-prioritized his chronic backstabbing disorder he could have brought down the Patriots a decade earlier.
 
Lone MacReady II said:
People also forget - if Koji wasn't some obscure Jap for most of his career - Hollyjew Would Have Sued The Yellow Off Of Him. Everything in Metal Gear is essentially "ripping off" something else, just with an autistic Nippon twist. Don't get me wrong, that's what makes it good, but you simply cannot deny that a character like Solid Snake is just John Rambo + Snake Plissken. Colonel Campbell is literally just Colonel Trautman. The very boxart itself for the first Metal Gear game was just a shot of Kyle Reese from the Terminator... 1:1
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It's ironic because they didn't end up suing, but the ones who did were some literally who Russians who killed off the main Metal Gear Solid theme during the production of Portable Ops because it apparently sounds like an opening theme to a show you've never heard of. Hasn't appeared in a game since.
 
Lone MacReady II said:
Solidus was a patriot
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It didn't occur to me as a teen playing it but he wasn't a villain at all. I wouldn't even say anti-hero. He was just willing to beat the Patriots by any means necessary. Willing to kill millions in NYC with a nuke to destroy their grip on their global control. Although what that actually was during the MGS2 era is anyone's guess. I really want to look at anything in the post SOL world as non canon. MGS4 was glorified fan fiction. That being said, as bad as Kojima would later get, I think GOTP wasn't the worse ending it could've been. I think Snake went out with respect and MGRR really shined him up in that one codec convo with Raiden and Kevin, and Jack really goes ham being a fanboy and not explicitly saying Snake is dead.
 
Wesker said:
MPO is so overlooked. It's got some flaws with it's plot but it still felt like it was a continuation of MGS3 where as PW felt like it went in a completely different direction.
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hey you know that psycho mantis character everyone loves? What if we made like 5 different psychic characters and there was no deeper plot or meaning? Also enjoy carrying soldiers mgs3 style back to your spawn taking up 99% of the gameplay.
30+GameOvers said:
It's ironic because they didn't end up suing, but the ones who did were some literally who Russians who killed off the main Metal Gear Solid theme during the production of Portable Ops because it apparently sounds like an opening theme to a show you've never heard of. Hasn't appeared in a game since.
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Not everyone at Konami got that memo btw it still plays in mgo3 and the pachislot.
 
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