Metal Gear

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the new mgs guy said that delta is a proof of concept to show the public and konami that there is still life in the IP. starting from 3, then doing mg1 and mg2 you have a pretty fucking solid (heh) base to make more games. kojima legit got retarded after 4 and his stories are getting worse and worse.
Kojima has always been a terrible writer, but he just got tard wrangled with the first 3 games which is why 3 was actually a fairly good game story wise. This may be considered a hot take, but I’m glad he’s not involved with delta. No game needs his retard energy.
 
That's what I don't get, The Boss wasn't "shit on" by her government - she was a Patriot who sacrificed herself to prevent nuclear war. People for some reason think the State MADE her do it, but you can't make the Boss do anything she doesn't want to. What everyone else and Snake don't understand is that she was the hero of MGS3 BECAUSE she self-sacrificed. The original plan wasn't to kill her off, the plan was to get Volgin's cash and America would be #1 again - until Volgin nuked his own nation because he is crazy. This fucked up the entire plan, and in order to prevent nuclear war the Boss played her role to prevent the world from being destroyed. The "plan" was revised. The entire conceit of the franchise post 3 is that everyone misinterpreted her will. The philosophers were not the patriots. The Boss was for America 100% as a soldier, because that is the duty of a soldier - loyalty to the end, in her own words. Snake is the biggest retard for either not realizing this or worse - getting butt hurt about it, which he did. Having those kinds of feelings for your comrades was, as the Boss put it, "The greatest sin a soldier can commit". Rant over.
I was literally just going by MGS3 since I have no knowledge whatsoever of MGS4 aside from "nanomachines" and MGSV doesn't even get into anything resembling a plot until the second half where I quit it because fuck replaying the same missions again.

As to what I was referencing in MGS3, its the part where right before you face off with her she shows the scar on her belly and tells you how she sacrificed her womb for Uncle Sam. Yes, I'm aware the plan was revised because of how bug-fuck crazy Volgin was and my point is the The Boss explicitly choosing every sacrifice she's made is what makes the whole thing a massive tragedy. Especially since the Feds go and declare him BIG BOSS because he's so much better than just The Boss. The Boss gave everything for Uncle Sam and the world, her life, her womanhood, even the loyalty of her own men like The End where he chose to die for the sake of her mission, and for what? She was a hero, and she died un-mourned and largely forgotten by those above her, publicly declared a traitor to her nation, and even her title stripped from her and given to someone else.

"One must die, and one must live. No victory, no defeat. The survivor will carry on the fight. It is our destiny. The one who survives will inherit the title of Boss, and the one who inherits the title of Boss will face an existence of endless battle."

Yeah, I too would be thinking real hard of a way to just walk away and go do my own thing after something like that.
 
You would be correct, something about the space program. This makes her a sap in Snake's eyes as she was sacrificing everything for a nation that didn't appreciate her, and that made him double down on his independent mercenary nation state idea by the end of the game.
This reminds me of something I saw someone complain about on the previous page--that basically the prequel games all seem to just go over the same ground again and again. Big Boss doesn't like the modern world so he starts Outer Heaven and has a big think all over again about The Boss and her beliefs. It's like Batman and the constant questioning of his no-kill rule.

.....

Re the whole Delta thing,...

Honestly I don't see being excited. Oh wow, video game is going into the same remake hell that movies have been in for fucking ever. A thing that bothers me about game remakes is they're always explicitly meant to be a replacement--"you don't need the original Resident Evil 2, you have this shiny new one now!" We already have a modern release of the original MGS3, let it live or die by its own merits.

I've never understood gamers being so remake-happy. Would you accept a re-write of Chronicles of Narnia by George R.R. Martin which stretches every book out to a thousand pages while adding nothing of value?

.....

One point that is kind of interesting to me is the whole "its good Kojima is not involved" thing. Usually I'm all about the idea that for a lot of work, its too closely tied to their personal idiosyncrasies that you can't remove the author. This is why Middle-earth only worked in Tolkien's hands.

But like I said earlier, Kojima himself wanted to pass the reigns and came off like he was intentionally trying to tank the series so often that the more enjoyable games tend to be the spinoffs he had little involvement with. So its an interesting flipside to that coin.

At the same time though.... its a case where I'd rather see what they do with a new installment, not cheer them on for rewriting the past.
 
I mean, originally yeah, but didn't Peace Walker set it up that Hot Coldman and the CIA set her up because they didn't like her influence?
You would be correct, something about the space program. This makes her a sap in Snake's eyes as she was sacrificing everything for a nation that didn't appreciate her, and that made him double down on his independent mercenary nation state idea by the end of the game.
Everything that came after MGS3's perfect ending I consider to be Koji's unnecessary cumwank to keep the sequel ball rolling for Konami (whom he was VP of for a time). Everyone knew back then that Naked Snake's salute at the Boss' grave was the start of his downfall into war criminal Big Boss. Nothing more needed to be said. Nothing more needed to be seen.
the new mgs guy said that delta is a proof of concept to show the public and konami that there is still life in the IP. starting from 3, then doing mg1 and mg2 you have a pretty fucking solid (heh) base to make more games. kojima legit got retarded after 4 and his stories are getting worse and worse.
Moreso than Delta, I would be hyped for potential MG1+2 remakes, because that shit is entirely uncharted territory to play with in 3D. We would also get to see both Gray Fox's downfall and Big Boss being an ACTUAL shit. I would love to see some flashbacks to "Green Snake's" training days in Foxhound, and if they'd keep the CQC.
 
Everything that came after MGS3's perfect ending I consider to be Koji's unnecessary cumwank to keep the sequel ball rolling for Konami (whom he was VP of for a time). Everyone knew back then that Naked Snake's salute at the Boss' grave was the start of his downfall into war criminal Big Boss. Nothing more needed to be said. Nothing more needed to be seen.
I think it's quite the opposite for me: You never really see just WHY Big Boss makes Outer Heaven if you just play MGS3. Oh sure, you have the graveyard scene alright, but it would be jarring if you played the OG Metal Gear right after that. If you play the other games, however(Portable Ops, Peace Walker, Ground Zeroes + 5) you see exactly why and how he was able to form OH and ties into the older MSX games perfectly, with MGS5's true ending taking place during the very first MSX game. Don't get it twisted, however, MGS3 is one of the best games ever made and it's ending is still perfect, but I'm glad the other prequel games expand Big Boss' lore.
Re the whole Delta thing,...
I really don't care, because 1) MGS3 is one of the best games ever made, like I said, and I know the new game will not be anywhere close to it's level of quality, and 2) because Konami simply doesn't have the skill and resources to re-make the entire franchise like Capcom is trying with Resident Evil. We might see similar backlash we've seen when nu-RE4 came out, depending on Delta's quality, but that's about it, nobody is going to replace MGS3 with the new game anytime soon(just like nu-RE4 was shortly forgotten by anyone that isn't a zoomer or a crapcom shill).
 
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MGS3 was the only prequel that was needed, and I'll die on that mountain.

Each prequel just made Big Boss seem dumber and dumber. There was no need for more, there was nothing that needed to be "explained" that wasn't explained in MGS3 if you weren't a fucking retard that needs everything spoonfed to you.
It just goes back to my argument on why people even were invested in the """""plot""""" of what came after. MPO was at least decent imo that felt like an actual sequel to Snake Eater. But PW was creepy anime bullshit and V.... well it's barely a game.
Kojima has always been a terrible writer, but he just got tard wrangled with the first 3 games which is why 3 was actually a fairly good game story wise. This may be considered a hot take, but I’m glad he’s not involved with delta. No game needs his retard energy.
Funny how the whole A HIDEO KOJIMA GAME faggots that plaster all over Youtube comments are singing another tune about Konami because Delta looks fucking great lol. Spineless faggots.

Metal Gear can exist without that closet case. MGR and Delta are proof enough of that.
 
It just goes back to my argument on why people even were invested in the """""plot""""" of what came after. MPO was at least decent imo that felt like an actual sequel to Snake Eater. But PW was creepy anime bullshit and V.... well it's barely a game.

Funny how the whole A HIDEO KOJIMA GAME faggots that plaster all over Youtube comments are singing another tune about Konami because Delta looks fucking great lol. Spineless faggots.

Metal Gear can exist without that closet case. MGR and Delta are proof enough of that.
It was literally like a community-wide fuck konami era... until people got a wiff of SH and MG remakes then suddenly all is forgiven daddy Konami! The arrogance of it comes from the fact that most of them never even played something like classic Silent Hill - but as soon as godking Kojima made a demo for a game that wasn't even in development it was "Silent Hill has returned baby!", then Koji got canned and it became "Silent Hill is over! Damn you Konami for killing Kojima's Silent Hill!" when in truth Silent Hill was getting bent over a barrel by westerners for a decade at that point... It was only after "Kojima's Silent Hill" was cancelled that any casuals decided to bitch and moan.
 
It was literally like a community-wide fuck konami era... until people got a wiff of SH and MG remakes then suddenly all is forgiven daddy Konami! The arrogance of it comes from the fact that most of them never even played something like classic Silent Hill - but as soon as godking Kojima made a demo for a game that wasn't even in development it was "Silent Hill has returned baby!", then Koji got canned and it became "Silent Hill is over! Damn you Konami for killing Kojima's Silent Hill!" when in truth Silent Hill was getting bent over a barrel by westerners for a decade at that point... It was only after "Kojima's Silent Hill" was cancelled that any casuals decided to bitch and moan.
I recall a youtuber making a video about how annoying it was that people kept treating SH as if Kojima literally invented the franchise when he wasn't even involved in any of the games that actually got released.

I like Kojima sometimes but damn his fanbase can get irritating.

Its weird how he's one of the few creators where people demand his involvement in a series... and yet these same people will turn and insist that literally any other art or literature on Earth can be divorced from its creator and do fine.
 
Funny how the whole A HIDEO KOJIMA GAME faggots that plaster all over Youtube comments are singing another tune about Konami because Delta looks fucking great lol. Spineless faggots.

Metal Gear can exist without that closet case. MGR and Delta are proof enough of that.

I hated Konami yesterday because of the Hideo drama and it was bolstered by MGSV's sorry unfinished state, Metal Gear Survive in general, and how they rebooted MGS3 as a slot machine. Konami hate was very justifiable yesterday, before Death Stranding and Hideo's subsequent floundering. I'm happy to see that they're attempting to make good with the franchise now (🌈🌈🌈).

Also I think the fact they released a proper PC port of MGS3 while teasing the remake is pretty fuckin cool.

I'll stop sucking their cocks from this point on, I'm just saying us spineless faggots have our reasoning too.
 
It was only after "Kojima's Silent Hill" was cancelled that any casuals decided to bitch and moan.
Silent Hill barely snailed on by for fucking years so this is entirely true. Silent Hills was never gonna be anything. It was developed only as a viral fucking teaser and nothing more.
MGSV's sorry unfinished state
It was finished. Kingdom of the Flies wasn't going to add anything and playing the same eight missions over and over was the intention of the gook auteur.
Konami hate was very justifiable yesterday
Only for the simple fact they should've fired him after MGS4.
us spineless faggots have our reasoning too.
You don't. Everything was his own fault. They gave this cocksucker 5 years to put out a game that only sold less than 6 million the last I checked. While so many other studios do two or three times that pretty easily. MGS is a dinosaur, and it doesn't help the game was entirely carried by his firing hype and not the game itself.

Let me be the one to end this fucking fake lore. To anyone that thinks V's "gameplay" is somehow better than MGS3-4, please, do everyone a favor and throw yourself in front of a train.
 
To anyone that thinks V's "gameplay" is somehow better than MGS3-4, please, do everyone a favor and throw yourself in front of a train.
V has better moment to moment gameplay, where as older MGS games had better story and scenarios. It's hard to even compare them together, one is a sandbox game with painfully mediocre stealth where as the others are very tight sneaking simulators, with some impressive attention to detail. Fact is that actual combat is much more fun in V, incentivising the loud and violent playstyle over the no-alarms sneaky one.
Survive is actually much better on the stealth front, as the game forces you to learn the ropes early on when you have little resources(and it's a pain in the ass to farm more resources to make bullets, bombs ect even later on), but most people never played that game because they heard a youtuber say it was bad(without any further explanation)

This debate between V lovers and haters is boring. I'm more interested in the "what ifs". MGS4 has fantastic gameplay, but sadly it barely gets utilized since the whole game is a tech demo. This game needed way more levels where the mechanics are actually used, rather than introducing them in a level or two as gimmicks. Where did the whole faction system go, one where you would have several countries fighting on the battlefield and if you pissed them off there would be consequences in later levels?
I think V was also going to focus a lot more on stealth early on. The best sneaking segment isn't in the game, it's the entirety of Ground Zeroes. If you mod the game to port the entire map over so you can do freeplay in it(something that was planned at some point by Konami BTW), you can tell just how tight the sneaking elements of the game are, but that's rarely utilized in the actual game where most of the map is a sandbox. It is hard to navigate vehicles in that tiny map as well, forcing you to engage on foot like in the other games. It's way too easy to just summon a tank or a helicopter strafe run in the final game, or just snipe everybody with a silenced rifle. GZ and not-Guantanamo Bay feel much closer to the older titles than what we got in the final game.
4 and GZ show what could have possibly been a perfect MGS game, but both times the opportunity was squandered. That's why the trilogy is still supreme in pretty much every aspect, even when combat is much better in V for example.

Metal Gear is a very diverse franchise and you will just have to accept that some games are too radically different from others to compare them. Where do the isometric titles fall, for example? Do they "suck" simply because they lack the gameplay elements of later games or the story isn't as intriguing, convoluted or deep as the 3D entries? There is several radically different kinds of games in the franchise: The isometric ones, the "main" trilogy being what most people think of when they hear the name, the sandbox management autism Big Boss games, there is MGR and Survive that don't really have any equivalents and then there is whatever the hell Acid games are. I guess MGO used to be a thing, but the earlier iterations died and the current one on 5 is dead. It is incredibly narrow minded to throw most of the games under the bus simply because they are different than the ones you personally like.
 
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There's Dieverse (something like Metal Gear Ac!d), and then there's just being taken for a ride while the creator takes the "swansong" piss. V was a creator-admitted unfinished product, sold for full price and given wall-to-wall 10/10 reviews by men like Dorito Pope eager to score points with butt buddy Koji. This came after a milque toast PAID DEMO (I still can't believe the nerve of that) which basically was charging you to play the first chapter of V because, like always, Koji went over the fucking budget.

It was after hours of playing the same type of missions for the same collectables in the same environments with the same drawn out infil/exfil cutscenes that I finally began to think - "Hmm, maybe I got scammed here". The missions in V aren't actually that "dieverse" at all. I'd rather play the sneaky weaky Snatcher referencing Europe level from MGS4. At least that changed up the scenery as opposed to nothing but Afghan Desert and Wakandan Forest in your "open world" game.
Gillian Seed.jpg
 
MGR did a much, much better job of whatever "subverting expectations" shit Kojima tries to pull simply by reversing the hero's journey. Where the hero rises above, Raiden fell. When the hero chooses to sacrifice something of his own, Raiden sacrificed someone else. When the hero must choose to be a better man, Raiden chose violence. And in the end, when the hero affirms his moral superiority over the villain and his aim, Raiden adopts the villain's aims as his own.
 
nah V is a fucking frankestein of an open world-portable game sucking at both. gameplay wise the series peaked with 4. hell even in 4 that retard jap was assblasted over some mild criticism over the codec and scrapped a lot of it. the ip deserves to continue imo.
Gameplay wise the series peaked with rising, unless spin-offs don’t count.
 
nah V is a fucking frankestein of an open world-portable game sucking at both. gameplay wise the series peaked with 4. hell even in 4 that retard jap was assblasted over some mild criticism over the codec and scrapped a lot of it. the ip deserves to continue imo.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course, but the fact is that Metal Gear is a huge franchise that isn't just composed of the "main" games. It's more fair to compare V to the portable entries since this is what everything was leading up to, but I guess it's Kojima's own fault for sticking a 5 there. He was going to do the same with Peace Walker, but I guess that's reserved for console entries, despite their quality.
Like I said, 4 would have been a lot better if there was more meat on the bone. The gameplay mechanics are great, but the levels are linear garbage and there is way too little of them. This game really needed some more side content to let you take advantage of your gear and gameplay mechanics.
Gameplay wise the series peaked with rising, unless spin-offs don’t count.
That's the problem with Metal Gear, as I already said: There is so many types of games in the franchise that it's not fair to really compare them together. Since the last act of MGS2 had Raiden use a sword, it's fitting that his second game has him doing nothing but chop, but I do agree the moment to moment gameplay is the best here and in MGS5. Makes sense, since these are the two most recent console titles that aren't remakes or remasters.
Then again, if you judge MGR by the same "standards" as the original trilogy, it's lacking since there is little stealth and it's story is a children's cartoon compared to the espionage thriller of the three Solid games. Does it make it bad? No, it doesn't. This is why I think using the main trilogy as a baseline is stupid.
 
It just goes back to my argument on why people even were invested in the """""plot""""" of what came after. MPO was at least decent imo that felt like an actual sequel to Snake Eater. But PW was creepy anime bullshit and V.... well it's barely a game.
Nice to see another fan of MPO here.
It was actually my first MG game that I ever played.
I agree with how it was a better sequal to SE then PW was.
 
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