Mega Man General Thread - Mega Man Battle Network Legacy Collection announced

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MetokurGroomedMe said:
it's damn good, too. i can recommend it pretty quickly if you like x1-x3, but beware that it's pretty difficult.
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You ain't joking. First stage nice and brisk, no issues. Can pick mavericks and flower has some pretty evil platforming sections. Nice of him to at leasy have a recurring 1up when it starts. Then tried the Ant, had some issues but reached the boss, got into a good groove on attempt 2 till he spazed the fuck out and blocks started constantly falling.

Moral of the story is I desperately need upgrades.
 
I heard about that, I swear X fans and Zero/ZX fans have got to be the most annoying people in the fandom
I don't see as much retardation from other subseries fans but those two seem to have the most vocal ones
 
Dynamite Bean said:
I heard about that, I swear X fans and Zero/ZX fans have got to be the most annoying people in the fandom
I don't see as much retardation from other subseries fans but those two seem to have the most vocal ones
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It's worth noting that nobody is complaining about the lack of the Navigators. Alia would be relatively simple to implement over X if someone did the sprites.

The actual issue here is almost definitely Zero not being in.
 
X Prime said:
It's worth noting that nobody is complaining about the lack of the Navigators. Alia would be relatively simple to implement over X if someone did the sprites.

The actual issue here is almost definitely Zero not being in.
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I wouldn't mind having zero around (fuck Axl, nobody gives a shit about him) but as a "thanks for this awesome project, have you considered adding a Zero mode?" not being a bunch of faggots about it. From what I've played it's very impressive, specially for a solo project and unlike fucking corruption, it ain't vaporware.
 
X Prime said:
There is currently drama regarding this free demake because Zero and Axl aren't playable and people are acting shitty about it.



It's ridiculous how entitled people are being. They're claiming the project, which only aimed to include X from the start, is somehow not "complete."
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i've seen this a bunch on twitter. fuck these retards, x8 demake is great, and it's an actual x game. it feels great to play, these dumb niggers need to eat zero-branded rat poison.
 
ShitLurker said:
(fuck Axl, nobody gives a shit about him)
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The vast majority of people complaining are being extremely dishonest about their motives when they say they want Zero "and Axl," yeah. It's why I brought up the Navigators, if it was actually about having an equivalent of every X8 feature in it to be complete they would have to ask for them too.

What makes this worse is that if you check the demake page, the guy had straight up said all along that the Navigators, Zero, and Axl would not be playable. This was not a secret or a surprise.
 
X Prime said:
It's worth noting that nobody is complaining about the lack of the Navigators. Alia would be relatively simple to implement over X if someone did the sprites.

The actual issue here is almost definitely Zero not being in.
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Zero's overrated anyway. I was never a big fan of Zero in the ps1 games. The close combat playstyle always felt weird in a Megaman game and zero's always come across as a character made to appeal to teenage edgelords. I didn't mind the zero games but I really hate the way they took the story in those games and they didn't really feel like Megaman games.
 
X Prime said:
The vast majority of people complaining are being extremely dishonest about their motives when they say they want Zero "and Axl," yeah. It's why I brought up the Navigators, if it was actually about having an equivalent of every X8 feature in it to be complete they would have to ask for them too.

What makes this worse is that if you check the demake page, the guy had straight up said all along that the Navigators, Zero, and Axl would not be playable. This was not a secret or a surprise.
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Even more of a reason to be polite about it, not cunts. Want zero? Put cash on the table and the Fabela goblin can decide if it's worth his time.

For all 3 fans of Axel, I can imagine he would be a nightmare if you want to properly implement Axel The whole "transform gimmick" would be a development pit if you intend to do it justice. Zero you can get away with dropping in his sprite and X3-X4 moveset and calling it a day and if stuff is not balanced for close quarters, tough luck. Axl not so much.
 
Grub said:
Zero's overrated anyway. I was never a big fan of Zero in the ps1 games. The close combat playstyle always felt weird in a Megaman game and zero's always come across as a character made to appeal to teenage edgelords.
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Zero's fine in the SNES games, I'd say, on all points. The issues start in X4.

In terms of gameplay, the problem is that when they made him a main character they had to basically give him mechanical advantages and design the bosses around being able to be melee-able so that he would not play terribly. This is especially obvious if you look at the damage charts of X5 and X6.
 
X Prime said:
Zero's fine in the SNES games, I'd say, on all points.
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True. I agree with that. He was better as a background character.

X Prime said:
In terms of gameplay, the problem is that when they made him a main character they had to basically give him mechanical advantages and design the bosses around being able to be melee-able so that he would not play terribly. This is especially obvious if you look at the damage charts of X5 and X6.
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That's not necessarily a bad thing if it's done properly. It's been a while since I played any of the PlayStation X games. I actually just started a playthrough of X4 yesterday. It's not as good as I remember so far. I've only beat one boss, the web spider dude, but he was a pretty piss poor boss that repeated a single, easily dodgeable attack for most of the fight and his second attack he starts using halfway through wasn't much better. I can what you say about how that design would be better for a melee character but it makes for kind of a lousy boss all around.
 
Grub said:
That's not necessarily a bad thing if it's done properly. It's been a while since I played any of the PlayStation X games. I actually just started a playthrough of X4 yesterday. It's not as good as I remember so far.
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A lot of people are fans of X4 (and not the rest of the series, maybe X5) for two reasons:

1) It is the easiest or second-easiest X game.
2) The anime cutscenes.

That's it.

Grub said:
I've only beat one boss, the web spider dude, but he was a pretty piss poor boss that repeated a single, easily dodgeable attack for most of the fight and his second attack he starts using halfway through wasn't much better. I can what you say about how that design would be better for a melee character but it makes for kind of a lousy boss all around.
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Right, this is what I mean. You have to make the attacks of the bosses simpler else Zero will take damage, at the cost of X being able to just snipe them to death very easily.

In the case of fodder enemies, either their health has to be low or Zero's damage has to be high so he can just wipe them out without stopping once he gets the spinning jump slash.

They went with the latter approach; in X5 Zero's damage was heavily buffed and enemy invincibility frames were heavily shortened. Meanwhile, X's first level charge shot was actually nerfed from X4. This is not even mentioning the part system which heavily favored Zero in both X5 and Xtreme 2.
 
X Prime said:
A lot of people are fans of X4 (and not the rest of the series, maybe X5) for two reasons:

1) It is the easiest or second-easiest X game.
2) The anime cutscenes.

That's it.
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I remember finding X4 hard when I first played it. Not as hard as X3 but still harder than the first one. Then again, I first played it on espsxe in the early 2000's with a keyboard, so probably not the most ideal way to play. I gotta admit, that intro song in X5 is pretty killer and was a pretty big part of why I liked it. I went to go try the X5 Improvement project hack and they changed the intro to the Japanese version and it was pretty disappointing.
X Prime said:
They went with the latter approach; in X5 Zero's damage was heavily buffed and enemy invincibility frames were heavily shortened. Meanwhile, X's first level charge shot was actually nerfed from X4. This is not even mentioning the part system which heavily favored Zero in both X5 and Xtreme 2.
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I actually preferred playing as zero in X5 over X and I'm guessing that's probably why.

It sounds like they took the half assed approach to balancing when they really should have had enemies with two sets of attacks, stats and placements depending on which character you pick. Though, I guess that would be twice as much work.
 
Grub said:
I actually preferred playing as zero in X5 over X and I'm guessing that's probably why.
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To put this in perspective with hard numbers, Zero's saber in 5 does 2 + 2 + 5 damage for each hit of the basic combo respectively against bosses. X's full charge shot does 3, half charge does 1. Against fodder, Zero can and does multihit with several attacks.

You see the issue immediately.
 
X Prime said:
To put this in perspective with hard numbers, Zero's saber in 5 does 2 + 2 + 5 damage for each hit of the basic combo respectively against bosses. X's full charge shot does 3, half charge does 1. Against fodder, Zero can and does multihit with several attacks.

You see the issue immediately.
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When you put it like that it actually doesn't seem so bad and I can see why they thought that was a good way to do it. Doing more damage as a melee character should make sense as you're always putting yourself at greater risk every time you attack but it seems like a bit too much. If a full combo hit did 1+1+3 it would bring it more in line with X's damage.
 
Grub said:
When you put it like that it actually doesn't seem so bad and I can see why they thought that was a good way to do it. Doing more damage as a melee character should make sense as you're always putting yourself at greater risk every time you attack but it seems like a bit too much. If a full combo hit did 1+1+3 it would bring it more in line with X's damage.
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In X4, Zero's combo did 1 + 1 + 2 and three bosses got invincibility frames on the first two slashes, so you are correct.

The thing in X5 is that the first two slashes do not trigger invincibility in almost all cases, on top of bosses getting less invincibility in general. This means he gets triple benefit from the Saber Plus part to do 3 + 3 + 6 damage, and unlike armored X he always gets to equip 4 parts. So he can halve damage with Shock Absorber easily, and the risk isn't even there for the most part.

X6 makes it a bit more even by increasing X's charged Buster damage by 1 unit, and not letting Zero equip more parts. Problem is that the Jumper part is basically mandatory on unarmored X in the unmodded game while Zero gets a free double jump. And then the Z-Buster does equal damage to X's full charge shot and if I recall can multihit, so you can't even say X has a better Buster.
 
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X Prime said:
In X4, Zero's combo did 1 + 1 + 2 and three bosses got invincibility frames on the first two slashes, so you are correct.

The thing in X5 is that the first two slashes do not trigger invincibility in almost all cases, on top of bosses getting less invincibility in general. This means he gets triple benefit from the Saber Plus part to do 3 + 3 + 6 damage, and unlike armored X he always gets to equip 4 parts. So he can halve damage with Shock Absorber easily, and the risk isn't even there for the most part.

X6 makes it a bit more even by increasing X's charged buster damage by 1 unit, and not letting Zero equip more parts. Problem is that the Jumper part is basically mandatory on unarmored X in the unmodded game while Zero gets a free double jump.
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Did they get a bunch of complaints about zero being too hard to play as in X4 or something? It almost seems like they were trying to compensate for something from X4 but went way too far the other way.
 
Grub said:
Did they get a bunch of complaints about zero being too hard to play as in X4 or something? It almost seems like they were trying to compensate for something from X4 but went way too far the other way.
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There's an article about it somewhere, but supposedly up until the last minute of X4 there were internal complaints that Zero felt bad to play.

I think a good chunk of it is just the Power Fighters team being Zero nuts though.
 
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