Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Shartavius]

The small talk I make with sad sacks in my daily life *still* includes those who insist that Doomsday is going to "save the MCU." I think they're doing this because they gave up on Star Wars.

Let's say DOOMSDAY is genuinely well-received, and regarded as whatever a "return to form" means with respect to a bunch of CG gay wrestlers flying and punching their way around exploding environments without a sense of scale or inertia: You're still going to have at least thirty two films and streaming series between Endgame and Doomsday that these people still won't know what to do with; because they all suck and build toward a Kang Dynasty tentpole film that never happened. None of these products were intended to stand on their own - They were sold on the promise that a lot of black dudes played by a black dude would do something significant in a future movie.

Even as a lifelong comic book fan, I don't pretend to be able to wrap my head around the cope these people have to summon just to look forward to the next capeshit ending with a teaser for the next capeshit.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

because they all suck and build toward a Kang Dynasty tentpole film that never happened. None of these products were intended to stand on their own - They were sold on the promise that a lot of black dudes played by a black dude would do something significant in a future movie.

And some of them aren't even connected to Kang.
Like the giant retcon in The Eternals that humanity is actually a food source for a newborn god... are we ever going to acknowledge that again?
How do they feel about Kang pruning timelines? Does the pruning bomb just erase these giant superpowerful gods that created the universe?
What about Dormammu and the Shadowverse or wherever he's from? Where is that place in the multiverse? Can he be pruned with a bomb created by some nigger?
How about the mythology established in Shang Chi? How does that play into everything?
They have a soul eating dragon god in that one... so there are souls? Where do those souls go after we die? Is there a god that oversees this soul shit? Where is he?
And then we also get the implication that the Olympian gods in Thor 4 were the ones who created humanity.

So the Greek gods created humans... and they said in the movie that there is no life after death... but also there are souls and an afterlife... but also humanity is a food source for giant space gods.... but also there is a dark universe where Satan lives... but also a nigger controls the multiverse and after he dies, a bunch of niggers control the multiverse... but also now Loki is controlling everything.... but also THIS MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE!!!

PICK ONE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!! THEY ALL CAN'T BE TRUE IN THE SAME CONNECTED UNIVERSE BECAUSE THEY CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT!!!

 

[Problematic User Forever]

PICK ONE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!! THEY ALL CAN'T BE TRUE IN THE SAME CONNECTED UNIVERSE BECAUSE THEY CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT!!!

But for real, that's how it's always been even in the comics I'm pretty sure.

Every discussion I see about Born Again seems to revolve not around how shitty the ending was, but on how "they" will explain Spider-Mans abscence in the next movie.

I'm never going to forgive Marvel/Disney for how much it turned Gen Z/A retarded with this "everything is connected/needs to be a crossover" shit.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

But for real, that's how it's always been even in the comics I'm pretty sure.

Pretty much, but at least those have the excuse of multiple authors writing their own shit for decades. While MCU doesn't have that excuse.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

But for real, that's how it's always been even in the comics I'm pretty sure.

Yeah and that sucks in comic books too.
You can't have 8 different origins of humanity which don't make sense if they're in the same universe and 23 different godlike beings, all of which would have to fight each other because their goals aren't the same.
I've posted this in the DC thread but I think you should have several separate universes if you want to make stories that collide with each other.
A realistic grounded universe, a universe with all the robots and aliens, a universe with souls and gods and magic etc. because if you put all of that crap into one universe, it will implode eventually.

I'm never going to forgive Marvel/Disney for how much it turned Gen Z/A retarded with this "everything is connected/needs to be a crossover" shit.

But that was the initial appeal of the MCU.
It was the first franchise where these crossovers could actually happen, that's a big part of why people watched this shit because individually, most of these movies ain't that great and most of them would not make a profit on their own.
There is not a timeline where Thor 2 makes $644 million if it's not coming out right after Avengers.

Personally, I would prefer standalone movies not connected to anything, allowing the filmmakers to give them a unique style, instead of everything looking pretty much the same because otherwise, the crossovers will have clashing aesthetics.
That's why I'm looking forward to DC's Clayface, that shit looks fresh.

 

[Quarterback Rex Grossman]

If anything from reading a full account, the secretary of state William H. Seward comes across as the biggest bastard. He went behind Lincolns back before the war kick-started and made promises he couldn't keep. When Lincoln unknowingly broke those promises by keeping the forts in southern States staffed and stocked. Seward ended up throwing away any chances of de-escalation. Peace wasn't guaranteed, the Southern leadership was exceedingly prideful and arrogant, but man he completely botched it and made Lincoln look like a liar. He was also something of a tyrant that ended up forming a temporary secret police that locked up anybody and anyone he deemed a security threat. People he didn't like were added regardless of actual deeds.

People usually focus on that faggot Stanton, who would absolutely be a reddit mod if he were alive today. He's the one with the bell on his desk that he would ring in order to have random people thrown into a dungeon for his amusement.

But that was the initial appeal of the MCU.
It was the first franchise where these crossovers could actually happen, that's a big part of why people watched this shit because individually, most of these movies ain't that great and most of them would not make a profit on their own.
There is not a timeline where Thor 2 makes $644 million if it's not coming out right after Avengers.

But back then it was expected you would get movies for three or four characters and then they would team up in an Avengers movie. Now it's fifty characters getting movies and shows and they're constantly paired up in each other's bullshit. Captain America three was just an Avenger's movie, and Baby Spider has never had his own movie to himself, he's always paired up with an older hero to mentor him. Whatever Favreau and company had in mind back in 2008 cannot be what we're getting in 2026. And why is this shit still going on anyway? Just reboot and stop giving us fake superheroes because the previous actors retired from the roles. You don't see Bruce Wayne dying in the DC movies just because Affleck isn't playing the part anymore.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

But back then it was expected you would get movies for three or four characters and then they would team up in an Avengers movie. Now it's fifty characters getting movies and shows and they're constantly paired up in each other's bullshit.

That's because up until like 2013-2014, Marvel Studios was following Universal's plan, led by Ike Perlmutter.
After that, all the greenlit projects got made and by 2015, he got fired and Feige completely took over. That was the start of the downfall.
Feige needed an asshole like Perlmutter to challenge him.

People say that Infinity War and Endgame were amazing but Endgame is one of the worst written things I've ever watched. It's insanely poorly written.
The main reason why (among many others) is that they had to deviate a lot from the comic book storyline because the genius Feige decided to release Guardians 3 after Endgame and not have Adam Warlock be the one who defeats Thanos so they made up the most retarded time travel heist story in movie history.
Fucking Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure had time travel that was less retarded and that movie was intentionally retarded.

You don't see Bruce Wayne dying in the DC movies just because Affleck isn't playing the part anymore.

Oh, just you wait till Pattinson retires from DC after The Batman 3 and fanboys will be crying and asking for the character to retire too.

 

[Shartavius]

My experience watching Endgame largely consisted of me thinking "They don't understand their own time travel rules." Though it's been too long to recall the specific details, I remember using pen and paper to plot something like fourteen branched timelines which, by the film's own logic, were created by the events of Endgame and then ignored on the basis that Steve Rogers returning the infinity stones to their respective resting places throughout the universe would serve as an "undo" button.

The only character to question why they even think that's how it works is Tilda Swinton; and she acquiesces simply because Bruce Banner promises that the specifics were somehow Stephen Strange's idea (they weren't). The question was raised in the script so that it could be handwaved within the same bit of expository dialogue (which includes a powerpoint presentation of stones being removed from and then returned to a timeline for the sake of showing the branched timeline literally dissolving).

Then the TVA was introduced in that Loki series to explain that fat black women with spanx and shoulder pads can just prune whatever timelines they want to mitigate these events - Which raises the further question of how any of the fourteen million, six hundred and five timelines Dr. Strange looked at before he figured out how to manipulate their (apparently) indeterministic universe in such a way as to result in the Infinity Gauntlet being used to wish Thanos away could even be possible; given the TVA exists specifically to allow only a single, multiversal timeline in which Rick Sanchez Kang doesn't meet other Kangs.

I can't decide if the entirety of the MCU marketing moving forward even knows whether it's promising the familiar goyslop taste people miss, or some new DOCTOR DOOM flavor that's only differentiated by color.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

Steve Rogers returning the infinity stones to their respective resting places throughout the universe would serve as an "undo" button.

That part alone I could talk about for hours, it has so many holes.
Let me address some of it:

How the fuck does Steve even know where to go?
Like, on the planet where Starlord gets the stone, will he know to walk to place X and not in any other direction? How does he know that? He doesn't have a map or anything.
What about Asgard? What happens when he shows up there?
Or the best one... what happens when he goes to the place where Black Widow died to get the stone and meets Red Skull? Do they have a chat and reminisce about the time the spectral eternal being was a fucking Nazi? And what does Red Skull even do after the stone has been taken? Does he fuck off or does he stay there? And if he fucks off, where does Steve return the stone to? Does he just leave it there for someone else to pick it up at some point?
And then there's the fact that the Steve who shows up at the end isn't even the Steve from this timeline, he's from another timeline... so the implication is that another timeline had the same exact series of events that ended in the same exact way... and the timeline we're watching isn't even the main timeline and it was created by another timeline.... which was created by another timeline... and we get this infinite regression of timelines until we get to a timeline where Joe Biden Cap never showed up at the end... but that timeline would have a different series of events because not having Steve go back in time to the 40's and stay with Carter would create a cascade of butterfly effects and HOLY SHIT!!! THIS IS EXHAUSTING TO EVEN THINK ABOUT!!!

And this was me rambling about scenes that weren't even part of the movie, we weren't meant to think about this shit at all.

Now imagine that I have this much to say about half the scenes in this fucking movie.

 

[Shartavius]

Old Steve's existence renders the justification for giving him a time machine moot: If the entire point of his time travel was to invalidate alternate timelines, then creating the alternate timeline necessary for him to run through all of Peggy Carter's bushy holes in the 1940s makes him a villain who willfully broke the laws of the universe just to lose his virginity and show up in the park as a hundred and eighty year-old man so he can let the Avengers know he had sex.

That "one" timeline where Thanos lost is a variant timeline created by using infinity stones created through variant timelines - No one actually returns to their respective future timelines in that movie; because every timeline they visit is for the sake of altering the future they return to via creating a branch by altering the past they visit. The timeline we see at the beginning of Endgame is one in which the Avengers disappeared to travel through time, and never returned - It's only through following the perspectives of the time travelers that we get a false sense of what's going on; and that it's a series of successes for them. Quantum Leap has a similar problem that people never consider; because we only see the series from the perspective of Sam Beckett (who himself is somehow oblivious to the butterfly effect nature of his work beyond the immediate, or that he's apparently an angel). There's a whole Endgame we never get to see, wherein Stark and Banner are repeatedly depicted going "Fuck! We didn't think this through.", as they dispatch the others on time travel adventures and wonder why they never returned.

That the TVA allowed a variant Steve bootstrapped from a timeline we never see to exist in that timeline for nearly a century without pruning him the moment he returned the final infinity stone raises questions which will likely never be answered; because (as is often the case) the writers themselves didn't understand their own time travel plot device. We could have gotten a scene where Mobius makes a handshake deal with him to refrain from altering historical events or saving George Floyd as a condition of letting him live to be pruned only once the other Avengers smell him and say goodbye in the park - But we didn't; because the writers didn't recognize that there's a problem with him being there in the first place.

Supposedly, Doomsday will address Steve and his baby (?) being variants by having Doom recruit Steve to save the variant timeline he created for the sake of living out whatever domestic fantasies were informed by listening to The Goldbergs. But I also won't be surprised if it continues to be ignored.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

As I was reading your post, I've discovered a very easy way to fix all of this shit in 1 movie.
Sadly, that movie already happened and it was trash.
I'm talking about Deadpool 3.

However, instead of the Deadpool & Wolverine movie we got...
DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE FIX THE MCU!!!

Remember how at the end of Deadpool 2 he got a time machine and started fixing shit, including the Fox X-Men timeline?
Make that the whole next movie!
Imagine him and Logan going around various MCU moments that got forgotten about by the writers or that don't make any sense, making meta jokes and fixing them.
How much better would that be than the crap that Deadpool 3 actually was?

It would still be a nostalgia trip full of pop cultural references but also, you would satisfy the hardcore fans.

 

[Shartavius]

you would satisfy the hardcore fans.

Alas, that isn't what the MCU is or is for: It's about making money off of people who don't like to read.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

That isn't what the MCU is or is for. It's so people don't have to read.

But I'm talking about the hardcore fans of the MCU, the ones who watch and overanalyze every movie, the ones who are currently pissed off at the lack of any plan.
You could literally just go through videos and posts of people pointing out all the bad shit in the MCU and put that in the DP3 script.

 

[Shartavius]

You could literally just go through videos and posts of people pointing out all the bad shit in the MCU and put that in the DP3 script.

I agree - I just don't get the impression that Disney gives a fuck about what the audience wants, beyond what specific tease in a Comic Con video will entice the public into paying for the opportunity to clap the moment they see a costume they recognize within a film made so anyone in the theater can take two piss breaks without missing anything.

 

[Problematic User Forever]

But that was the initial appeal of the MCU.

So now every fucking tv show and movie needs to be the avengers?

It isn't even enough that half the Defenders showed up, but now if Spider-Man isn't literally everywhere half of reddit seems to be complaining.

Like, Born Again Season 2 had a lot of problems, but Spider-Man not being in it isn't one of them.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

So now every fucking tv show and movie needs to be the avengers?

All you need is one throwaway line in the script.
At the end of the last S-M movie, he lost everything. No more rich sugardaddy, no more money, no more tech.
He's probably busy working 2 full time jobs to pay rent, he has shit to do besides crimefighting.

Have someone say: "Nobody has seen Spider-Man since that one thing happened" and that's it.

 

[Lion of Yehuda]

None of this woulda happened if we'd just kept Edward fucking Norton

 

[Nick Obre]

That part alone I could talk about for hours, it has so many holes.
Let me address some of it:

How the fuck does Steve even know where to go?
Like, on the planet where Starlord gets the stone, will he know to walk to place X and not in any other direction? How does he know that? He doesn't have a map or anything.
What about Asgard? What happens when he shows up there?
Or the best one... what happens when he goes to the place where Black Widow died to get the stone and meets Red Skull? Do they have a chat and reminisce about the time the spectral eternal being was a fucking Nazi? And what does Red Skull even do after the stone has been taken? Does he fuck off or does he stay there? And if he fucks off, where does Steve return the stone to? Does he just leave it there for someone else to pick it up at some point?

I think it doesn't matter where he puts the Stones, just that they are in the correct universes at the correct times. After all, he doesn't take back the Tesseract, the Scepter, and the Aether, he takes back the Space, Mind, and Reality Stones. The intention is not that no one notices the Artifacts were gone, but that these universes don't unravel from the continued absence of their Stones. Hopefully he'd put them close to where they were taken (give the Time Stone back to the Ancient one, for instance, but is he gonna shove the Reality Stone into Natalie Portman's ass?) but not necessarily.

And then there's the fact that the Steve who shows up at the end isn't even the Steve from this timeline, he's from another timeline... so the implication is that another timeline had the same exact series of events that ended in the same exact way... and the timeline we're watching isn't even the main timeline and it was created by another timeline.... which was created by another timeline... and we get this infinite regression of timelines until we get to a timeline where Joe Biden Cap never showed up at the end... but that timeline would have a different series of events because not having Steve go back in time to the 40's and stay with Carter would create a cascade of butterfly effects and HOLY SHIT!!! THIS IS EXHAUSTING TO EVEN THINK ABOUT!!!

The fuck are you talking about? It's the Steve from 616 (understood as movie 616 not comic 616 because they're stupid about using that number instead of a new one). Sure, he lived for decades in a timeline branch he created by staying with Peggy in the past, and he came back to 616 (presumably just to visit, not to stay, since we haven't heard about him ever since) to give Sam the Shield and, yes, to let them know he managed to fuck.

You're right, though, that the infinite regression and progression of timelines that comes baked in with this time-cosmology overcomplicates and devalues everything, forever.

e timeline we see at the beginning of Endgame is one in which the Avengers disappeared to travel through time, and never returned - It's only through following the perspectives of the time travelers that we get a false sense of what's going on; and that it's a series of successes for them.

Nah man, logically it should work like that but the movie has them using devices to identify timeline coordinates, so they do return to their original timeline. And in any case, the Loki show confirms the universe we were watching all along is still the same one at the end of Endgame.

All you need is one throwaway line in the script.
At the end of the last S-M movie, he lost everything. No more rich sugardaddy, no more money, no more tech.
He's probably busy working 2 full time jobs to pay rent, he has shit to do besides crimefighting.

Have someone say: "Nobody has seen Spider-Man since that one thing happened" and that's it.

That would work if No Way Fag Home hadn't ended with "I'm poor and alone and miserable but I'm still being Spider-Man in New York".

Alternatively, if the Anti-Vigilante regime had been a really short-lived thing that DD managed to take down in a matter of days or weeks at most, that'd be fine too. Peter was busy, out of town, whatever. But it was like 6 months, on the low end. You can't have Spidey operating in NY for months while this happens without him getting involved somehow.

 

[Shartavius]

the Loki show confirms the universe we were watching all along is still the same one at the end of Endgame.

Well that's a relief.

 

[Temu Glock Switch]

And some of them aren't even connected to Kang.
Like the giant retcon in The Eternals that humanity is actually a food source for a newborn god... are we ever going to acknowledge that again?
How do they feel about Kang pruning timelines? Does the pruning bomb just erase these giant superpowerful gods that created the universe?
What about Dormammu and the Shadowverse or wherever he's from? Where is that place in the multiverse? Can he be pruned with a bomb created by some nigger?
How about the mythology established in Shang Chi? How does that play into everything?
They have a soul eating dragon god in that one... so there are souls? Where do those souls go after we die? Is there a god that oversees this soul shit? Where is he?
And then we also get the implication that the Olympian gods in Thor 4 were the ones who created humanity.

So the Greek gods created humans... and they said in the movie that there is no life after death... but also there are souls and an afterlife... but also humanity is a food source for giant space gods.... but also there is a dark universe where Satan lives... but also a nigger controls the multiverse and after he dies, a bunch of niggers control the multiverse... but also now Loki is controlling everything.... but also THIS MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE!!!

PICK ONE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!! THEY ALL CAN'T BE TRUE IN THE SAME CONNECTED UNIVERSE BECAUSE THEY CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT!!!

The N-Bomb detonated so hard that I started reading the post in Walt Goggin's voice.