Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Miriam Margoyles]

I think that Yaya Abdul Mateen Ramalamadingdong III (or whatever he's called) is quite handsome for a woggoid, albeit in a 'I'm goin' down the slave market and gonna get me a strong one' sort of a way.

He certainly wouldn't get away with a ridiculous name like that on my plantation, though, I can tell you that for nothing. I'd give all of my niggers names after characters from the Bible, I think.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

I feel not, tbh. That's less of a personal thing and more of a community thing. This is more personal, more angry. Driven by a sense of shame or envy I think, towards the person who makes them feel bad. Have you never noticed it online from time to time, even here, the sheer need that someone who has given up has that other people also give up? Very real thing.

It's just envy. Doesn't need to be a trope.

 

[dick brain]

It's just envy. Doesn't need to be a trope.

The word "envy" has lost its meaning due to being used as a synonym for jealousy. The difference between jealousy and envy is that jealousy is when you wish your life was as good as someone else's and envy is when you wish someone else's life was as bad as yours.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

The word "envy" has lost its meaning due to being used as a synonym for jealousy. The difference between jealousy and envy is that jealousy is when you wish your life was as good as someone else's and envy is when you wish someone else's life was as bad as yours.

These people operate with both: jealonvy.

 

[dick brain]

These people operate with both: jealonvy.

Is that the name of the next Blade actor?

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Omni-Man from Invincible,

He does not count does he? The plan was for his race to invade the planet the entire time right?

 

[Powerhouse of the Cell]

He does not count does he? The plan was for his race to invade the planet the entire time right?

Well yeah, but I mean loosely in terms of the writer's intention in creating the character of Omni-Man as being a stand in for supremacism or whatever.

Omni-Man believes that his race should invade and rule the Earth so that does fit within the that realm.

 

[Overly Serious]

It's just envy. Doesn't need to be a trope.

It isn't and I'm puzzled as to if you actually read what I wrote because it's so far from it. I did say that it can be a form of envy for someone else still having their integrity or similar but I think it's closer to shame. A person who still believes or hasn't given up is a painful statement to the other person that their giving up was a choice. It's not a very common trope but it's common enough for me to have seen it recurring. And also in real life. On forums, you can almost feel the anger from someone on occasion when they have given up to someone who still says you can make a difference.

It's also different to the "You and I are not so different" trope, though it can be close. But instead of wanting the hero to join him out of some goal to achieve something, the villain can't stand that the hero is better than them. I don't mean in terms of power, I mean in terms of making the villain face what they are by taking away their excuses because unlike the villain, the hero remains strong. The villain wants the hero to be broken and despairing not out of power or even directly cruelty. But because they want the hero to stop being a hero. To fall the way they have.

It is definitely a thing. And far more specific than envy.

The word "envy" has lost its meaning due to being used as a synonym for jealousy. The difference between jealousy and envy is that jealousy is when you wish your life was as good as someone else's and envy is when you wish someone else's life was as bad as yours.

I'm afraid that's not quite right. Though you're correct many people get confused between the two.

Jealousy is akin to possessiveness and somewhat coveting. One might guard one's wife "jealously", locking her away, getting angry when another man looks at her. In LotR, the bearer of the One Ring guards is jealous over the ring, it is his precious and he fears it will be taken from him.

Envy is a desire to possess what others have. One might envy another his wealth or his partner or status.

 

[dick brain]

Well yeah, but I mean loosely in terms of the writer's intention in creating the character of Omni-Man as being a stand in for supremacism or whatever.

Omni-Man believes that his race should invade and rule the Earth so that does fit within the that realm.

Complete tangent but it's hilarious how often stories intended to vilify supremacism implicitly acknowledge the supremacy of the supremacist by making them superpowerful. If the writers were actually colorblind and egalitarian they'd construct a story that shows that the "supreme being" is wrong about his supremacy by having the people he seeks to subjugate prevail against him on their own. Instead you get stories like Invincible and the X-Men and Superman and Dragon Ballz where the supposed lesser races are proven to be lesser and need to be saved by rogue members of the supreme race that defect against their supremacist bretheren, which just means the message isn't "supremacism is wrong" but rather "yeah we're objectively superior BUT that means we have a moral duty to help the people we're objectively superior to" which is just The White Man's Burden again.

Time is a flat circle.

 

[Overly Serious]

Complete tangent but it's hilarious how often stories intended to vilify supremacism implicitly acknowledge the supremacy of the supremacist by making them superpowerful. If the writers were actually colorblind and egalitarian they'd construct a story that shows that the "supreme being" is wrong about his supremacy by having the people he seeks to subjugate prevail against him on their own. Instead you get stories like Invincible and the X-Men and Superman and Dragon Ballz where the supposed lesser races are proven to be lesser and need to be saved by rogue members of the supreme race that defect against their supremacist bretheren, which just means the message isn't "supremacism is wrong" but rather "yeah we're objectively superior BUT that means we have a moral duty to help the people we're objectively superior to" which is just The White Man's Burden again.

Time is a flat circle.

Deep down, the writers want to see themselves as saviors who rescue the lesser beings. They don't want to actually be one of those people nor identify with them. They want to be adored and thanked by them. They envy the villain for his power but hate those who are powerful because as weak people they've rationalised power over others as bad because they don't have it. They resolve this by wanting to make one superior being evil whom they replace because they're good and they know they're good because they saved people from the evil. Then it's okay. The people wanted them to do it.

It's one of those mental excuse fantasies. Like when someone fantasizes about a person giving them a reason to beat them up. Really they want to beat the other person up for other reasons but they imagine that person giving them an excuse that would make it justifiable to themselves or others.

 

[Incecticyder]

Instead you get stories like Invincible

You are ignoring how Viltrumites made themselves self-destructive even before the bioweapon that nearly wiped them out. They had to become good as a method of survival rather than purely because they wanted it (though they did).

and the X-Men

The Mutants are not always strong. For every person with godlike powers there is 100 that have almost nothing or have a power that is a disability. The X-gene is a lottery that grants fragile bones more often than it grants lasers. Not to mention the different ways to gain powers in comics. If the Mutants decided to start a fight with the non-mutants, they would be on the wrong side of many powerful characters that otherwise would not fight them but now will.

Superman

The Kryptonians are not a good example of this. They are getting retconned all the time and they were more isolationists rather than supremacists most times.

Dragon Ballz

In Dragon Ball, the Saiyans were hardly impressive. They were low-ranked most of the time with only a fraction being strong. Other races produced better warriors prior to the discovery of the Super Saiyan but by then, there was barely any left.

The White Man's Burden again.

It is more of a "With great power, comes great responsibility" rather than "White Man's burden" considering that most of these cases portray exceptional members of otherwise unremarkable races. The Viltrumites are the only real exception but even they were basically acting like children that did not expect others to find ways to fight back.

Deep down, the writers want to see themselves as saviors who rescue the lesser beings. They don't want to actually be one of those people nor identify with them. They want to be adored and thanked by them. They envy the villain for his power but hate those who are powerful because as weak people they've rationalised power over others as bad because they don't have it. They resolve this by wanting to make one superior being evil whom they replace because they're good and they know they're good because they saved people from the evil. Then it's okay. The people wanted them to do it.

It's one of those mental excuse fantasies. Like when someone fantasizes about a person giving them a reason to beat them up. Really they want to beat the other person up for other reasons but they imagine that person giving them an excuse that would make it justifiable to themselves or others.

Welcome to life! Humans have been doing that since Gilgamesh if not earlier. Are we really going to argue against human nature? Because that is a losing fight.

 

[King Metalia]

Is that the name of the next Blade actor?

Lol there are people who still think that Blade movies going to happen.

 

[dick brain]

You are ignoring how Viltrumites made themselves self-destructive even before the bioweapon that nearly wiped them out. They had to become good as a method of survival rather than purely because they wanted it (though they did).

Omniman.

The Mutants are not always strong. For every person with godlike powers there is 100 that have almost nothing or have a power that is a disability. The X-gene is a lottery that grants fragile bones more often than it grants lasers. Not to mention the different ways to gain powers in comics. If the Mutants decided to start a fight with the non-mutants, they would be on the wrong side of many powerful characters that otherwise would not fight them but now will.

Magneto.

The Kryptonians are not a good example of this. They are getting retconned all the time and they were more isolationists rather than supremacists most times.

Zod.

In Dragon Ball, the Saiyans were hardly impressive. They were low-ranked most of the time with only a fraction being strong. Other races produced better warriors prior to the discovery of the Super Saiyan but by then, there was barely any left.

Vegeta.

It is more of a "With great power, comes great responsibility" rather than "White Man's burden" considering that most of these cases portray exceptional members of otherwise unremarkable races. The Viltrumites are the only real exception but even they were basically acting like children that did not expect others to find ways to fight back.

Bullshit.

 

[Mr. 0]

tom holland is gay

 

[Stab You in the Back]

It's always people who hate the concept of superheroes that get to write superhero movies.

I'm well aware that it's a flawed movie, as discussed heavily over in the DC thread, but I still loved Superman 2025 because it didn't waste time acting like superheroes are dumb. It treated the Man of Steel as a symbol of hope.

We had three different MCU movies and five different MCU Disney+ shows in 2025, yet none of them captured the optimistic view of superheroes as well as scenes from this one movie that came out the same year did.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Zh3V_2Y3vY0

This moment in the film was undeserved, emotional pap typical of a James Gunn project. James Gunn knows how to film emotional scenes, but he doesn't know how to write them, so you get this weird disconnect in all his films where there some sentimentality that feels false and frankly a little patronizing.

Superman is a grossly ugly, cynical film. And having a bunch of people chant "SUPERMAN!" at the end doesn't magically change that.

 

[Incecticyder]

Omniman.

Yeah, they largely did not listen to Omniman UNTIL they got to experience normalcy for themselves. Thragg was still their boss when they had a change of heart. They came to agree with Omniman but they did it on their own.

Magneto.

Magneto is strong. Ask the guy with weak bones and a bird's face if he feels superior to an average man. There are a lot more of those than there are Magnetos. That is partly why Charles wants peaceful co-existense with the rest of the world. Also, mutants are not exactly a different race (regardless of what some say) so they share the same values as the rest of the world most of the time. They are not conquering aliens with a superiority complex.

Zod.

Zod was a criminal whose desire for conquest did not reflect the rest of Krypton. Also, he does not change.

Vegeta.

I said most of the time. It wasn't until much later in life that Vegeta was truly powerful. A Namekian such as the Nameless One would run circles around even Super Saiyans and Nail was stronger than nearly any Saiyan during his introduction. Hell, MOORI was stronger than an Elite like Nappa (The Tree of Might pamphlet says that his power is 5000 as opposed to Nappa's 4000). Saiyans where "Potential Man" without living up to said potential until Goku came along. They were low to middle class shock troopers of FF. Speaking off, Frieza was God-Level after 4 months of training. That is what a species that is truly superior looks like. The Saiyans did not have a supremacy opinion as there were a lot of other species in FF that could match them. Vegeta became self-absorbed as a reaction to Frieza demeaning him all the time as he outright said so. That was not the standard for the Saiyans as a whole.

 

[Overly Serious]

Welcome to life! Humans have been doing that since Gilgamesh if not earlier. Are we really going to argue against human nature? Because that is a losing fight.

Me: "X happens."
You: "Are we really going to argue against human nature?"
Me: ?????

No idea what point you thought I was making nor what you're trying to refute.

 

[God of Nothing]

please forgive him
he has autism

 

[Incecticyder]

Me: "X happens."
You: "Are we really going to argue against human nature?"
Me: ?????

No idea what point you thought I was making nor what you're trying to refute.

What I am saying is that humanity as a whole gravitates towards heroes. Those that fight against dragons, save princesses, stop the bad guys etc etc. Superhero stories are just the latest manifestation of that. Humans love those stories and to argue otherwise is asinine.

 

[Overly Serious]

What I am saying is that humanity as a whole gravitates towards heroes. Those that fight against dragons, save princesses, stop the bad guys etc etc. Superhero stories are just the latest manifestation of that. Humans love those stories and to argue otherwise is asinine.

But... where do you think I argued that humans don't like stories about heroes? I really think you haven't understood what I wrote or are trying to slot it into someone else's argument.