Marvel Cinematic Universe

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Reading jlongb0ne's thread revealed that Phase 4 continues to shit on the male characters by having Riri build her first machine at age 3.
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Overly Serious said:
I posted this ages back in the "Conspiracy Theories You Believe In" but I think that originally Carrie Fisher wasn't going to be in the third Star Wars post-trilogy (Ep. IX). Maybe had been in some of the drafts but was probably not going to actually be in the movie. And then when she died they re-arranged things so that she "would have been" to get the large insurance payout for death of a main cast member.

Cynical but very plausible.
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If the draft of Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates script that floated online is accurate, Leia was still a major focal point. Just a bit more of a graceful handover to the next gen than what was delivered.
 
So remember in the comics Riri’s backstory is “my teacher wouldn’t oppress me and that made mad, so I essentially forced her to do so?” Now she just had “my teacher oppressed me” as her backstory. Also she made machines at age 3.

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Thread on reacting to the movie.
 
Just saw the movie. Quick review.

It's not bad. It's probably the best movie in Phase 4 outside of Spider-Man NWH. That is FAINT praise: 6.5/10.

Now for the fun part: Oh my God the Black Manosphere is going to have a field day with this movie. Winston Duke (M'Bala) is a comedy character with 7-8 minutes of screen time. Outside of him, there are ZERO OTHER BLACK MEN with any speaking lines in this 2 hour 40 minute film. Maybe 1 or 2 side characters got a line, but that's it. Edit:
I forgot one cameo to be fair because Michael B. Jordan does reprise his character in a 3 minute dream sequence. Michael B. Jordan might legit have the most speaking lines of any black man in this movie; maybe even more than M'Bala.
If you were going to make the argument that Marvel used Boseman's death to shove Black men out of the Black Panther franchise, this film couldn't have proved them more right.
 
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Articles and Nudes said:
So how do they blame whitey for their problems.
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Whitey spends the entire movie threatening to invade Wakanda and steal all of the vibranium. No joke; FRANCE does it at the start and the USA basically threatens to do it the entire movie, which is why Shuri is tempted to side with the main villain to team up versus the rest of the "surface world."
 
Salubrious said:
Just saw the movie. Quick review.

It's not bad. It's probably the best movie in Phase 4 outside of Spider-Man NWH. That is FAINT praise: 6.5/10.

Now for the fun part: Oh my God the Black Manosphere is going to have a field day with this movie. Winston Duke (M'Bala) is a comedy character with 7-8 minutes of screen time. Outside of him, there are ZERO OTHER BLACK MEN with any speaking lines in this 2 hour 40 minute film. Maybe 1 or 2 side characters got a line, but that's it. Edit:
I forgot one cameo to be fair because Michael B. Jordan does reprise his character in a 3 minute dream sequence. Michael B. Jordan might legit have the most speaking lines of any black man in this movie; maybe even more than M'Bala.
If you were going to make the argument that Marvel used Boseman's death to shove Black men out of the Black Panther franchise, this film couldn't have proved them more right.
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Well if this is true they managed to piss off black fathers who took their sons for the first movie. Criticisms aside, that movie was a father/son story that people can relate to.

That said, I do think this movie is going to be more successful than Thor and maybe Dr. Strange. It may even be the one that finally breaks a billion after Spider-Man. I think the opening week is going to be big, but it just depends if there are repeated viewings like No Way Home or it goes to the Marvel slump like the last movies did. I still think it's not going to best Top Gun Maverick though.
 
SmugAutist said:
Well if this is true they managed to piss off black fathers who took their sons for the first movie. Criticisms aside, that movie was a father/son story that people can relate to.
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There is not a single father-child relationship in the entire movie. All the strong black fathers are dead, including Ironheart's, and M'baku doesn't have any children (that I saw).
 
Salubrious said:
There is not a single father-child relationship in the entire movie. All the strong black fathers are dead, including Ironheart's, and M'baku doesn't have any children (that I saw).
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good lord
can't wait to hear my favorite internet niggers (you my nigger, salubrious) tear this shut apart
but especially greg
he's grifterish but he's funny
 
SmugAutist said:
That said, I do think this movie is going to be more successful than Thor and maybe Dr. Strange. It may even be the one that finally breaks a billion after Spider-Man. I think the opening week is going to be big, but it just depends if there are repeated viewings like No Way Home or it goes to the Marvel slump like the last movies did. I still think it's not going to best Top Gun Maverick though.
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It will struggle alot outside of the US---
 
Overly Serious said:
I've said this pretty much before in another thread so apologies if this is a double-sperg for some, but anyway...

I think you're wrong. I think Alan Moore sincerely didn't understand why people saw Rorschach as a hero. And for my argument I will present a famous precedent. John Milton's Paradise Lost. Milton was a deeply religious man who set out to create an epic work which praised God and showed how foolish Satan was to oppose the Almighty. In doing so he almost single-handedly created the anti-hero / noble version of Satan that has persisted to this day. Whether it's Rolling Stone's Sympathy of the Devil, Netflix's Lucifer or any other ennobling or positive take on the myth of Satan - blame Milton. His religious convictions ran so deep that he simply could not see how people could admire a figure who faced utterly overwhelming odds, literally an omnipotent being, and decided to stand and oppose him anyway. "What thought the field be lost, all is not lost."

Which brings us to Rorschach. Who faces the near omnipotent Dr. Manhattan - literally, physically - and utters his last words of no compromise. "Not even in the face of Armageddon". There's no greater underdog in Watchmen than Rorschach - born in destitution to a whore, bullied, spurned and yet chooses not to become like his oppressors but to fight. He has no big inheritance like Owl Man. No staggering gifts like Ozymandias. And certainly no random endowment of power like John. The only one like him is The Comedian who chooses to serve the government, the war - who compromises almost day 1.

Of COURSE people admire Rorschach. How wedded to your beliefs would you have to be to think everyone else would see Rorschach the way you did - to write all those admirable qualities of the character, just as Milton did with Satan, and think that all you were doing was making your villain more tragic and impactful rather than redeeming them into a hero?

I'll tell you how wedded to your beliefs you have to be - Alan Moore levels of wedded to your beliefs.
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>finally read Paradise Lost after years of hearing how it portrays Satan
>realize that it literally portrays him as someone who hides his intentions and basically is constantly trying to fuck with people of anger of not getting his way
>the fall of man is driven by his spite and Eve being innocent to the idea of evil


I have no fucking clue how anyone reads him as an anti-hero. He wants power, he loses constantly because they can’t stand him. God barely ever slaps him down, it’s usually another Angel calling him a faggot. Eve is effectively more of an anti-hero in that story, her fall is actually sympathetic and misguided.
 
Salubrious said:
Whitey spends the entire movie threatening to invade Wakanda and steal all of the vibranium. No joke; FRANCE does it at the start and the USA basically threatens to do it the entire movie, which is why Shuri is tempted to side with the main villain to team up versus the rest of the "surface world."
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When do they talk about Buck Breaking? I hope they explore that thoroughly in Black Panther 3: Hail to the Qween
 
HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
>finally read Paradise Lost after years of hearing how it portrays Satan
>realize that it literally portrays him as someone who hides his intentions and basically is constantly trying to fuck with people of anger of not getting his way
>the fall of man is driven by his spite and Eve being innocent to the idea of evil


I have no fucking clue how anyone reads him as an anti-hero. He wants power, he loses constantly because they can’t stand him. God barely ever slaps him down, it’s usually another Angel calling him a faggot. Eve is effectively more of an anti-hero in that story, her fall is actually sympathetic and misguided.
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I think it mainly boils down to two things. Firstly that Satan is portrayed as being more attractive than the portrayals of the Middle Ages. Secondly, it has to do with historical context. It was written during the era of the Protectorate in England, where Cromwell's rule was absolute and was known for his puritanical and authoritarian tendencies. The idea of a someone going against an absolute ruler must have given the appearance of an anti-hero to the people of the age. Cromwell was so strict that England brought the monarchy back almost immediately after his death, even when Charles II was less than stellar.
 
Salubrious said:
There is not a single father-child relationship in the entire movie. All the strong black fathers are dead, including Ironheart's, and M'baku doesn't have any children (that I saw).
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I'm proud at them properly representing the nigger experience!;)
 
SmugAutist said:
I think it mainly boils down to two things. Firstly that Satan is portrayed as being more attractive than the portrayals of the Middle Ages. Secondly, it has to do with historical context. It was written during the era of the Protectorate in England, where Cromwell's rule was absolute and was known for his puritanical and authoritarian tendencies. The idea of a someone going against an absolute ruler must have given the appearance of an anti-hero to the people of the age. Cromwell was so strict that England brought the monarchy back almost immediately after his death, even when Charles II was less than stellar.
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I always viewed Satan to be a stand-in for any shitty leader rather than rebelling against God. He creates every problem in order to gain more power for himself.
Also from what I am aware, Milton was pro-Cromwell during the decades of writing Paradise Lost and shifted to being disappointed that he didn’t genocide the Irish amongst other things.

The infamous quote “Why serve in Heaven… Rather rule in Hell” in the story is an obvious lie he tells himself and others after failing. Even without the autism of British politics and whatever the pedo’s that run that island were feeling that day, Satan is not even close to being an anti-hero in that story.
He’s a fucking loser who God basically doesn’t take too seriously and Man’s Fall is ultimately influenced by him, but only because Man chooses to fall.
 
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