Marvel Cinematic Universe

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King Dead said:
I think the writers just cannot see the value in a recurring villain, or at least one that isn't unceremoniously killed in his first appearance. They probably think it's a failure whenever the good guys don't completely and totally win over the bad guys, because evil is something that must always be extinguished completely or else you're complicit.
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That's always been the thing for comic book films, and usually it was justified because no one thought they'd have more than few installments, so villain variety is important and people like a good karmic death. Ironically in the case of Kang people say that he's not a threat because he lost to a D tier hero. It also doesn't help that Marvel already had very lackluster villains compared to DC, you have at most 1-2 big villains for any hero unless it's Spiderman/Mutants.
 
I have this insane schitzo theory that I will never be able to prove that MCU humor became as intrusive as it did and as shitty as it is for international markets. I also believe this is why basically every blockbuster or wanna be blockbuster for the last 10 years has the same thing. not specifically the whedon quips that ruin everything, but their cadence and style of delivery. growing up I watched a ton of asian movies, particularly shit from hong kong or japan. and their style of comedic delivery is very similar. it's the same type of thing you see in anime. I think it's easy to adapt the quips to foreign markets because in a dub you can dub in whatever the fuck you want that any swinging dick in whatever country will find funny. the fact the movies tend to stop specifically for the joke and punchline are exactly what a lot of asian comedic scenes are like and it'd be easy as fuck to localize the line for them, and if it isn't a quip then the movie stops for some sort of universal slapstick joke or whatever.

this is why if anyone asks me what's responsible for modern mainstream movies sucking I blame Joss Whedon. he popularized the shitty stop the movie self aware quippy faggotry he'd been doing forever in Avengers which was the biggest hit ever, and hollywood as a whole figured out how to easily repackage those moments for the chinese or whatever. it's shitty anime humor delivery basically. I first seriously thought about this phenomenon stoned at the opening night of the force awakens. instantly that movie lost me because the very beginning of the movie they set it up like some scary shit is happening stormtroopers killing a village or whatever and they capture the hero and his first response to the scary bad guy bitch is to essentially pause the movie and make a joke where in an anime the villain character would get a big head and X's over their eyes or something. probably because I was stoned the rest of the movie I was hyper aware of this and besides the fact it was a terrible rehashed movie, I detested it because of this shit and leaving all I could think was huh that was basically some MCU jokes. going forward any MCU movie I have watched since all I can think of is this and knowing how big those are/were in china and knowing TFA was disney's attempt to break star wars into that market made me come to the conclusion this shit has to be part of the formula not necessarily because the quips are so hilarious to retards but because the way they include them is easy to format to other cultures.
 
Exterminatus said:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fmBjkb-r8Fw
Ultron was super wasted honestly, he should've been saved as one of the overarching villains for the Avengers to fight like Thanos or Galactus, he's had the Avengers on the ropes numerous times and effectively even won when you bring some of the multiverse stuff too. I know when I originally saw the film, I felt kinda bummed because of all the comedy when the trailer gave off the idea of a much more sinister theme.
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Man I'm not american and that made me want to go "'MERICA FUCK YEAH!"
And agreed with Ultron, the trailers made him seem like a menacing villain, the marketing claimed he would be "a much different villain" "one that the avengers would need to assemble to defeat", and the shills on Twitter sprging about how "chilling" Spader's performance was, only for the movie to be your typical Whedon comedy and Ultron a forgetable villain.
 
Iron Hamster said:
true but it was hardcore Mary Sue shit going on
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I watched a bit of Agents of Shield but given the degree to which the lead character just became so perfect so quickly made fucking Chuck (the character of the series of the same name) look restrained after he got upgraded to Matrix tier nonsense before she got superpowers was painful. Making her almost always morally right made it worse. Any show that would be better with their lead needs the writers and directors taken to one side for a firm talk.
 
not to derail too hard with my autistic ramblings about Disney, the MCU & Star Wars I am going to make one more post that contains the rest of my thoughts on it so I never feel the need to really bring it up again because it's sort of off topic.

I think that Disney's total clusterfucking of Star Wars was entirely predicated on this China conspiracy I have. It was obvious they wanted to and were under the impression they were going to recreate the success of the MCU with that property. that's why they came out the gate announcing not only a trilogy but also spin offs about everything under the twin suns. because it was going to be their other major cinematic universe franchise. and by all means it should have worked. however, China was emerging as the biggest consumers of movies and their biggest base they were trying to suck up to at the time. coming off of the success of the Avengers they were even doing weird collaborative shit with the country on Iron Man 3, filming a couple of exclusive scenes for the Chinese version (and why I personally believe we got cucked with the Mandarin to avoid any yellow peril backlash from that audience) but they had a problem, unlike the rest of the world there was no built in fanbase for star wars as none of them got official releases there and i'm sure they were heavily bootlegged like everything else, it wasn't a cultural phenomenon and outside of an assumed really small group of fans, nobody gave a shit or didn't know it existed.

this is why I think TFA was a remake of a new hope. not to appease people who hated the prequels (though it had that benefit) but to introduce the chinese to star wars with a basic rebels vs evil empire plot because despite the fact lucas decided he needed to flesh out what happened before, the original movie worked because it was a basic story easy to understand and was cool, but if you released a 40 year old american movie in china in 2015 they would have went, who the fuck cares. I also suspect that is why the spin offs that came out and the ones that were supposed to, were shit like solo to explain to the chinese why they should have given a fuck about han solo dying or whatever because they weren't getting the OT. I also suspect this is why John Boyega's character is the quippy dumb goofball he ended up being because the chinese wouldn't like him because he's black unless he can be haha funny brack man. anyway this doesn't work and star wars comes out and nobody there cares, they had such a shitty foundation by remaking the original that the dude writing the next one just shits all over it and writes them into a corner, the rest is history they fucked themselves by trying to appeal to people who wouldn't and didn't care permanently ruining a beloved franchise to most of their actual fans because the corporate interest was to create MCU 2.0 appealing to the biggest film market in the world and they assumed it was too big an IP to fail everywhere else (something they learned nothing from in current day MCU)

Now the Marvel Studios of today is a lot different than the one from just a few years ago. to match the cultural change that hollywood and everything else thinks is happening due to vocal minority of people online and in LA echo chambers we have moved into shitty pandery territory where women and POCs and whatever are the priority in the landscape. China doesn't play that shit, so a bunch of MCU movies have just been skipped over there in recent years hurting their bottom line immensely, yet they have to do this because they'd rather bow to the twitter morons who would praise a video of a dog taking a shit on a plate and then eating it if someone convinced them this was representation of something. and the majority of these diversity hire writers all grew up idolizing Joss Whedon because of his former status as SJW nerd king and his "strong women" & quips. even though half of these things don't get released in china anymore, every movie still has this pause the movie asian joke moments. once you see it you can't fucking unsee it, seriously go watch any movie made post avengers with a budget of more than $100 mil. it's in there. and partially because of that it's such a part of the cultural zeitgeist because every movie thinks stopping for a quip makes a character likable, that go on any average twitter or reddit thread and this is just how people talk online. so every movie has these moments to be easily localized for other countries initially and now a generation of already shitty writers won't stop doing it because they think that is how you add personality to any character.

sorry for the long autistic ramble and lack of focus to anyone who actually reads my retardation
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
It also doesn't help that Marvel already had very lackluster villains compared to DC, you have at most 1-2 big villains for any hero unless it's Spiderman/Mutants.
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I spoke on this a bit earlier in the thread, but I agree with this 100%.Marvel's non-Spidey heroes and teams - arguably including the X-Men - have an AMAZING archenemy and frequently maybe one or if lucky two B-list baddies worth mentioning otherwise.

Seriously. Fantastic Four have Dr. Doom. X-Men have Magneto. Cap has Red Skull, Thor has Loki, and Iron Man's Mandarin and Hulk's Thunderbolt Ross (IMO, he and NOT his Red Hulk form is Hulk's true arch) are technically lower-tier but work fantastic in contrast to those two. But then what? X-Men get Sabertooth and I suppose Apocalypse... FF get Mole Man, sure, sure... Hulk has Leader and I guess Abomination....

Yeah.

It's why I hoped for really strong solo trilogies for the Avengers' Big Four A-list solo book leads, to really flesh out and distill the three-four most important villains of their rogues' galleries and thus give a good entryway to their corners of the Marvel 'verse. Stand at least near par with Spidey. But, alas, it was not to be.

(threats like Galactus are most tied to FF, I know, but such characters are event-defining levels of trouble and spread across so many different characters, teams, and storylines I don't think they should quite count as being tied to one specific hero anymore)
 
PizzaPoppa said:
@Hembruh That sort of explains why Donnie Yen is the coolest character in Rogue One. However why have the Chinese character in The Last Jedi kiss a black man if they're trying to appeal to the Chinese?
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yeah I had a whole section typed out about Rogue Ome & Donnie Yen but cut it out for being entirely irrelevant to an MCU thread lol but That actress was Vietnamese but even so I'm under the impression by the last jedi they already realized they failed getting the Chinese interested after TFA & Rogue One. If Donnie Yen couldn't get them nothing would. I also think Rian Johnson didn't give a fuck regardless. The Chinese audience also complain about how ugly some actors are (Shang Chi wasn't released in China despite only getting made to appeal to them but when it was still supposed to be they went crazy saying that actor is too ugly and they didn't want to see it) so maybe they were cool with the ugly chick being w a negro. Who knows they might have even cut that kiss out. I mean they took him off the poster for the first one lmao that scene is such nothing anyways i wouldn't know I was missing something if they skipped it. Movie flopped hard there anyways.
 
King Dead said:
I think the writers just cannot see the value in a recurring villain, or at least one that isn't unceremoniously killed in his first appearance. They probably think it's a failure whenever the good guys don't completely and totally win over the bad guys, because evil is something that must always be extinguished completely or else you're complicit.
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I think this is just a trope carried over from comic book movies of the 2000s where the bad guy always gets killed off.

Though it really is a shame that the MCU barely has any recurring villains. The closest thing there is was Loki who was a villain in at least 3 movies (Thor, Avengers, and Thor 2).
 
Doctor of Autism said:
I think this is just a trope carried over from comic book movies of the 2000s where the bad guy always gets killed off.

Though it really is a shame that the MCU barely has any recurring villains. The closest thing there is was Loki who was a villain in at least 3 movies (Thor, Avengers, and Thor 2).
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What recurring villains could they have anyways? The only semi memorable villain was Red Skull.
 
Articles and Nudes said:
Ultron's initial entrance when he's just...rambling and learning to use his body set expectations that were never met. His little "don't do this, please..." to Wanda is the only other line I can remember.
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I actually thought the fact he was so "normal" was kind of chilling. His whole gimmick was interesting to me because while his level of knowledge was beyond most humans he just wasn't aware of how selective and biased he was becoming. Like he could know the evils of humanity but not the pride and evil of himself.

He was something of a heavily evolved child. But yeah all the charm and menace he had was because of Spader. Without it he wasn't that special. Still a step above most though.


I still remember this scene.


He was also great in what if too. I really appreciated how they made him a massive threat in that. Shame they didn't get Spader. Good substitute though.
 
XYZpdq Jr. said:
yeah iirc China had gotten the prequels but the OT was mostly obscure over there
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you're right, but without the cultural phenomenon of the originals when they were state of the art, nobody gave a shit about the prequels there because they were basically indecipherable without being set up for them at all, and they went nowhere story wise because they existed to lead into shit they hadn't seen so besides some people probably thinking they looked cool they were basically dead on arrival there in the mainland.

the funniest failure to me from Disney's China pandering is definitely Shang Chi. A movie they literally made specifically just to be a hit in that market and it didn't even release there. they thought they were killing 2 birds with one stone making a Hollywood diversity fest and a guaranteed Chinese hit by using their proven brand with the MCU, but they did everything wrong. first off they cast Simu Liu & Awkwafina, two Asians who had prior talked shit on the ccp and also don't conform to Chinese beauty standards which pissed people there off because they took it is a slight against them as portraying Chinese people as ugly, and then in their attempt to save face against yellow peril stereotypes they combined Fu Manchu and the Mandarin as Shang's evil dad but they still were offended because making someone's actual parent a villain they have to fight and kill is super against their cultural beliefs. not to mention just the fact the character was based on fu manchu & mandarin pissed them off. For him they cast Tony Leung who is like the greatest living Chinese actor, but was a Hong Kong guy who before the mainland ruined the Hong Kong film industry in the late 2000s/2010s did not only action movies but drama roles where he was a faggot, and other disliked in China things, and despite his general mainstream acceptance as a great there, had recently got into some shit with the ccp in the mid 2010s for supporting Tibet because he's A devout Buddhist. they also take their genre shit really seriously where a martial arts movie is a martial arts movie and a wuxia movie (super power martial arts think crouching tiger or whatever) is a totally different beast and generally are supposed look and feel a.different way.

so to the Chinese you have a movie, made for you by Americans that's like a quarter in your native language of the mainland about an ugly man (played by a traitor) and his ugly woman friend who are brainwashed by westerners to be disrespectful to and fight his father who is played by someone the government basically just tolerates because he's so famous. and said movie is a mishmash of genres that doesn't really appeal to the audience of them because to the Chinese its not a kung fu movie, its not a wuxia epic, and its not like the other damn marvel superhero shit they like. Not to mention it has worse effects in the end than some of their terrible cgi fest wuxia shit of the last decade and that says a lot. Of course they didn't release it there! It pandered to them the way that Hollywood sjw types pander to their audience with faux bullshit 'representation' and inadvertently was everything the Chinese hate.

It probably sounds like I hate Shang Chi but I wouldn't go that far. Personally I didn't like it. Awkwafina was 95% of why and the other 5% was that as a kung fu movie I thought the choreography sucked, the ending devolved into really retarded cgi shit I thought was dumb, and as an Asian person I found it entirely ridiculous every Asian character in the MCU had to be in the movie together that was just cringe shit. I thought the main dude was fine and love me some Tony leung but it disappointed me a lot. that being said outside of guardians, strange 2 and Spiderman it might be the only post endgame movie I thought was even watchable so at least there's that. moral of the story? Don't hire diversity hires to make movies for other cultures. Go have actual people from there make the movie if that's what you want because no matter what these people think and say they in fact know nothing of other cultures and just want to impose their politics and get away with it because of the POC card.
 
Its still hilarious to me that Shang Chi the movie specifically made to get big china bucks was not released in China, and that retard Simu Liu's comments about how kids would "finally get a cool asian martial artist hero" well as a martial arts sped I almost took that personally.
Reading Hembruh's posts made me remember something, I had a similar change of heart to the first Captain America, when I first watched it back in the day I disliked it, didn't hate it but disliked it a lot, back then it felt to me like it was trying too hard to be funny and felt almost childish at times. Last year I rewatched it because a group of coworkers invited me to a "Marvel Marathon", and ironically I enjoyed it a lot now, it felt action packed and its technically the goriest film in the MCU since a soldier gets thrown into a propeller and turned into a red mist all on camera it doesn't cut away or anything, something I didn't even remember. I guess movies this days are so shit that it just seems like a master piece in comparison.
Its funny and sad at the same time how the Marvel movies get progressively worse if you watch them all.
 
Mary the Goldsmith said:
Its still hilarious to me that Shang Chi the movie specifically made to get big china bucks was not released in China, and that retard Simu Liu's comments about how kids would "finally get a cool asian martial artist hero" well as a martial arts sped I almost took that personally.
Reading Hembruh's posts made me remember something, I had a similar change of heart to the first Captain America, when I first watched it back in the day I disliked it, didn't hate it but disliked it a lot, back then it felt to me like it was trying too hard to be funny and felt almost childish at times. Last year I rewatched it because a group of coworkers invited me to a "Marvel Marathon", and ironically I enjoyed it a lot now, it felt action packed and its technically the goriest film in the MCU since a soldier gets thrown into a propeller and turned into a red mist all on camera it doesn't cut away or anything, something I didn't even remember.
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That scene always stuck out to me just even when I first watched the film back in 2012 since it's so much gorier than anything seen before or since in the MCU.
 
Uranus Pink said:
@Hembruh Slightly off-topic but by any chance you know what main land China thought of Big Trouble in Little China?
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No I'm Vietnamese the entire chinese perspective I have over all of this is mainly speculation from what I know from watching their media and a mild amount of looking into specifics. I just really like Hong Kong movies from the 80s through the mid 00s and really hate what mainland China did, running one of the best film industries in the world into the ground with propaganda, & shitty movies & what Hollywood has become trying to suck them off, I imagine they never saw it but they'd hate it big time. A shame it's one of my top 10 movies of all time probably. I only ever ended up so deeply looking into and thinking about china shit because I got high before star wars 7 and its haunted me ever since how I could connect the dots between that shitty movie and Disney's MCU output with them.

@Mary the Goldsmith I had a similar thing with CA, but it took me less time to come around on it. I was always a DC guy growing up outside of Hulk, Spidey & Captain America. I was in high school when CA came out and was so excited for it. But I was a dumb teenager and so when I saw that poster of him holding the shield in a battlefield i expected like a real war movie. Like pg13 saving private Ryan with a super soldier. I knew the bad guy was red skull and the cosmic cube would be the macguffin but I didn't expect all the bad guys to have laser guns and shit and I fucking hated it when I saw it in theaters because I wanted tonally the exact opposite of the movie. I came around on it by the DVD release though. I found out it was directed by the same guy who made Rocketeer (A childhood favorite of mine) and was able to take it on its own terms. I think it holds up pretty well, but I still wish we had gotten an actual WW2 movie instead of what we did.
 
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