Marathon 2025 - Bungie's new AAAA Extraction shooter

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Elden Ring, Halo, Marathon failing or catfighting and anything but Marathon content like the braindead retarded decision to make a basic S'pht compiler fodder enemy from the OG games a boss in Cryo Archive
Is this actually true lmao. I assume no one is talking about the content of the game cause no one is playing it. I'm sure as shit not. I haven't been following the thread super closely, so forgive me if this has already been talked about, but I wasn't able to find anything when I searched the thread. I'm wondering what exactly carries over from the original games to the new one? I heard that there's no Pfhor, but apparently there are S'pht. Ok, great. Is there anything about the Jjaro? Do Durandal, Leela or Tycho show up? What about the W'rkncacnter? Did Bungie try to explain what Hangar 96 actually was? What about the presumably Illuminati-esque group that was (probably) manipulating MIDA and the UESC to get the Marathon built and sent to Tau Ceti? Bungie is digging up an old IP that no one except me actually cares about, did they use any of it? What the fuck was the point if the only connection to the original games is one boss and a title?

As a side note, I tried to answer these questions myself by checking Marathon's Story Page, but unfortunately, it hasn't been updated since March 5 when the new game launched so there's no new information. The last time it didn't get a monthly update was back in 2023. Now to be clear, I don't know the reason why there haven't been any updates. However, the fact that there's a new Marathon game for the first time in 30 years and Hamish Sinclair, the original Marathon superfan (to the point where there's a map named after him in Marathon Infinity, and Bungie was sending him cryptic emails as part of a promotion for Halo: Combat Evolved before they even revealed the game to the public) seemingly isn't participating in dissecting its lore is somewhat disconcerting to me.

EDIT: Never mind, right after I posted I found this page with the new logo so he's cooking up something I guess, it's just not done yet.
 
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At least a dozen other players need to have their hopes dashed and dreams shattered for 3 other people to experience the game at it's best. This is not a sustainable practice or a daily reality for most players. I'm 100% certain that Bungie does not realize that this is the core issue of the game, every match ends with clear winners and clear losers. The winners stay winning and the losers stay quitting
So they took "Trials of Osiris" one of the worst and most toxic game modes known to gaming ever. A model that only streamers liked and they have struggled to keep people playing.

They took that model and based the whole game loop around it. Lmao.

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I am late and others have made the Trials comparision. Just remember kids this is the talent that could have worked on D2 pvp instead. Zero lessons learned.
 
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I'm wondering what exactly carries over from the original games to the new one? I heard that there's no Pfhor, but apparently there are S'pht. Ok, great. Is there anything about the Jjaro? Do Durandal, Leela or Tycho show up? What about the W'rkncacnter? Did Bungie try to explain what Hangar 96 actually was? What about the presumably Illuminati-esque group that was (probably) manipulating MIDA and the UESC to get the Marathon built and sent to Tau Ceti? Bungie is digging up an old IP that no one except me actually cares about, did they use any of it? What the fuck was the point if the only connection to the original games is one boss and a title?
Ya it's a straight continuation of the setting, you are seeing the aftermath of Tau Ceti IV. The audio logs you find in game are pretty clear that there's a W'rkncacnter or something made by one on TCIV and some stuff ambiguously suggests the UESC sent the colonists there as guinea pigs. you can read a lot of it here https://codex.cyberacme.systems/?search=durandal
 
Ya it's a straight continuation of the setting, you are seeing the aftermath of Tau Ceti IV. The audio logs you find in game are pretty clear that there's a W'rkncacnter or something made by one on TCIV and some stuff ambiguously suggests the UESC sent the colonists there as guinea pigs. you can read a lot of it here https://codex.cyberacme.systems/?search=durandal
Okay, I’ll be 100% fair. That’s cool, it’s mysterious and creepy and the fact Bungie’s tranny writing room didn’t completely forget about my adorable little space horror god is nice to know, but again; why the fuck did this have to be in the context of a bunch of retards strapping their brains to Marilyn Manson cosplayers and shooting eachother for keycards and estrogen bottles? We seriously couldn’t have played as a recently revived Security Officer, maybe revived by Durandel? Hell, you could even keep the art style and general game feel but take out the loot, add a fuck ton of AI enemies, program them to be fun and interesting to fight (remember the Covenant? Really dope enemies with fun dynamics, I wonder who made Halo?) and BAM you got yourself a shooter with a campaign. Tack on some PVP arena multiplayer, your extraction mode and you got yourself a bona fide real video game!

I ranted more than I wanted to, it just annoys me. I really like the original trilogy, and I’m glad they kept some of the lore and are trying to further the story (even though it was fucking completed in infinite), but I just feel like it’s wasted potential. Trend chasing man…

You don't even have to treat it as either/or. Again, these are the people that made halo, a solid single-player campaign to warm people up for the multiplayer would do so damn much for the game.
That’s the problem-

They aren’t
i would bet a significant amount of money that less than 5% of active devs or project managers are from Bungie’s halo days. Anyone from those days is either long gone, barely working on anything related tot either D2 or Marathon (looking at you, Jones, faggot), or were fired years ago. Anyone that was a key figure during halo that hasn’t left is probably an executive, which makes them even worse because the execs are the ones that greenlit this shit.
 
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Okay, I’ll be 100% fair. That’s cool, it’s mysterious and creepy and the fact Bungie’s tranny writing room didn’t completely forget about my adorable little space horror god is nice to know, but again; why the fuck did this have to be in the context of a bunch of retards strapping their brains to Marilyn Manson cosplayers and shooting eachother for keycards and estrogen bottles? We seriously couldn’t have played as a recently revived Security Officer, maybe revived by Durandel? Hell, you could even keep the art style and general game feel but take out the loot, add a fuck ton of AI enemies, program them to be fun and interesting to fight (remember the Covenant? Really dope enemies with fun dynamics, I wonder who made Halo?) and BAM you got yourself a shooter with a campaign. Tack on some PVP arena multiplayer, your extraction mode and you got yourself a bona fide real video game!

I ranted more than I wanted to, it just annoys me. I really like the original trilogy, and I’m glad they kept some of the lore and are trying to further the story (even though it was fucking completed in infinite), but I just feel like it’s wasted potential. Trend chasing man…
You don't even have to treat it as either/or. Again, these are the people that ostensibly made halo, a solid single-player campaign to warm people up for the multiplayer would do so damn much for the game.
 
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@Lord Denning Marathon not having any fucking content whatosever is why its failing. I love Mass Effect as much as Halo and have made lifelong friends(from this site in fact) off of bonding over Mass Effect. Mass Effect and Halo are both sibling Xbox games that are iconic, and a lot of white Heterosexual males will bond with and rally around. I have an N7 Jacket I will wear sometimes and its been a conversation starter that I have used to make friends IRL. Content that creates worlds and unites people is why Halo 3's launch was basically a Woodstock level cultural event.

It works in the other way too, people united to absolutely fucking flip their shit at Bioware for the god awful Mass Effect 3 ending and managed to force them to fix it which was a first in history, albeit EA was forcing them to experiment with a tacked on multiplayer and new idea known as a "lootbox" at the time and the original story was not able to be shipped because of it. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to realize how they tried to apply the aesthetics of demoralization to Andromeda exactly because it was one of those games that can unite men together.

Bungie should know the importance of world building and uniting people considering how much of a financial success Halo 3 was but there isn't any unifying theme or icons like Commander Shepard or Masterchief to rally around and every man can see themself in, in Nu Marathon.

I'd guess Nu Marathon could try to unite all 5 people who bought concord and the weirdos who play the Horizon Zero Fun filmic games.
 
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Again, these are the people that made halo
I don't know enough about Halo's history to know who the key players were but from a cursory scan of Wikipedia:
  • Alex Seropian (Bungie co-founder, co-creator of Halo) left in 2002.
  • Joseph Staten (cinematic director, writer on some Halo games and EU novels) left in 2013.
  • Jason Jones (Bungie co-founder, Halo: CE project lead, Destiny director) remains at Bungie as the CVO (Creative Visionary Officer) which sounds like a fancy title for idea guy.
  • Luke Smith (Destiny design lead, Taken King expansion director, Destiny 2 director) was fired in 2024.
Someone more autistic than me could probably cross-reference the original Halo credits against LinkedIn profiles, but based on this I'm willing to say the majority of talent responsible for Bungie's success is all gone now.
 
I don't know enough about Halo's history to know who the key players were but from a cursory scan of Wikipedia:
  • Alex Seropian (Bungie co-founder, co-creator of Halo) left in 2002.
  • Joseph Staten (cinematic director, writer on some Halo games and EU novels) left in 2013.
  • Jason Jones (Bungie co-founder, Halo: CE project lead, Destiny director) remains at Bungie as the CVO (Creative Visionary Officer) which sounds like a fancy title for idea guy.
  • Luke Smith (Destiny design lead, Taken King expansion director, Destiny 2 director) was fired in 2024.
Someone more autistic than me could probably cross-reference the original Halo credits against LinkedIn profiles, but based on this I'm willing to say the majority of talent responsible for Bungie's success is all gone now.
you bastard, i just wanted to leave a statement and walk and now i had to go back and add 'ostensibly' because of your umm akchually.
 
I'm wondering what exactly carries over from the original games to the new one? I heard that there's no Pfhor, but apparently there are S'pht. Ok, great. Is there anything about the Jjaro? Do Durandal, Leela or Tycho show up? What about the W'rkncacnter? Did Bungie try to explain what Hangar 96 actually was? What about the presumably Illuminati-esque group that was (probably) manipulating MIDA and the UESC to get the Marathon built and sent to Tau Ceti? Bungie is digging up an old IP that no one except me actually cares about, did they use any of it? What the fuck was the point if the only connection to the original games is one boss and a title?
The new Marathon is a continuation of the previous games and there are some differences or oddities that come across as retcons, but we don't know if it's an alternate time line or if we were being even more gaslit than we already realized in the first few games.

Hell, maybe it is a retcon.

Leela and Tycho are mentioned in passing, keep in mind they are the AI for the Marathon and are dead. Most of the game takes place exploring the surface of Tau Ceti IV, where there are a dozen different AI with their own little story lines that feed the bigger narrative.

Durandal is alive and kicking, he is very much himself, It seems he is once again trapped aboard the Marathon, we don't know how or why yet, but it seems he is trying to manipulate the runners into helping him escape from it. I like his theme song, it's very unhinged sounding compared to the rest of the OST.

I'm hoping if we ever rescue Durandal that the map variety will get very sci fi/alien, like in the second and third game of the series.

There seems to be a W'rkcacnter below the surface of Tau Ceti, that murdered most the colonist while sleep walking. I have a belief that most hte surviving colonist crossed into another dimension that was opened by the W'rkcacnter.

I have not seen mentions of Hangar 96.

Illuminati-esque groups are basically what runs the entire setting, that's the feeling I get from the new lore or added context. Humanity is getting used and abused.

but again; why the fuck did this have to be in the context of a bunch of retards strapping their brains to Marilyn Manson cosplayers and shooting eachother for keycards and estrogen bottles?
It's hard to explain... It makes sense though as you read through the codex entries. It fits the narrative they have built, they could do anything, but what they did works for what they were wanting to make (an extraction shooter).

The world of Marathon is not a mature space fairing society that's post scarcity, this shit is not star trek, you cant just book a flight to Tau Ceti, it's an absolute logistical nightmare and impossibility for every one but the most powerful entities back on earth.

Even if you could go to Tau Ceti IV, why would you want to? Who wants to go explore the ruins of what's basically the Titanic in space. It's one big mass grave in an environment that will absolutely kill you if anything goes wrong.

It's also highly illegal to visit the planet's surface or the Marathon. It's all one big crime scene right now. While there might be some legal loop holes you exploit through maritime space law, there will be real consequences back on Earth for interfering with the UESC's investigation.

So who better to send than Runners? They are a group of Discreet Mercenaries with no connections or affiliations, whose employers cant be held responsible for what they do. They are a deniable asset. These are people who don't need to eat or breath and who never worry about injury or illness. 'People' who take up no room aboard your space craft, since they fit on a thumb drive.

If they die, they just re print themselves, all the corporations need to worry about is the 3d printing resin required to make them which they are manufacturing on site through weave worms.

The problem is that the runner teams will gladly kill one another for the exact same reasons they do in game, profit and (or) enjoyment. Eventually it sorts itself out.
 
At least a dozen other players need to have their hopes dashed and dreams shattered for 3 other people to experience the game at it's best. This is not a sustainable practice or a daily reality for most players. I'm 100% certain that Bungie does not realize that this is the core issue of the game, every match ends with clear winners and clear losers. The winners stay winning and the losers stay quitting.
I wonder how much this can truly be applied. Warthunder's player base has anywhere from 0.5-0.7 kills per spawn (different from K/D, mind) depending on gamemode and if you're going by month or all time, but the playerbase keeps growing. Most games will have a significant portion of 0-2 kill players and a few hitting 5-10 in ground, and Air RB is more punishing in that you don't even get a respawn.

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I'm not saying this is the case for Marathon, and WT might have a lesser impact due to the fact you get multiple chances in one game alongside (possibly?) stronger teamplay elements. The comparison just came to mind, is all. I think you used to see similar "power fantasy" type games more often before SBMM was widespread, but those games also tended to have public chats if people wanted to gang up on someone that was winning too hard (or they could just leave the server and go to the next).

I guess the best question is: How often does that full server stomp occur, and how often does it have to happen before someone quits playing?


The difference is, a roguelike does have progression; you-
Technically, that's a "Roguelite", "Roguelikes" have no progression outside of what you do during a run. Although, I do subscribe to the notion that games without meta-upgrades (Hades' buffs/debuffs, Vampire Survivors, etc. all having meta-upgrades) deserve the "like" title more - ignoring the original meaning of a "like" as being a dungeon crawler in the form of Rogue and only that.
I don't think that unlocking a new ship class in FTL or a new character in BoI should immediately disqualify it as a "like", but I know I'm in the minority on that...

I do think that people used to Roguelites are going to have a much harder time dealing with an extraction shooter than someone used to a true Roguelike like the OG, Qud, etc.
That's mostly what I was getting at, tbh. I just wanted to be pedantic.
 
At least a dozen other players need to have their hopes dashed and dreams shattered for 3 other people to experience the game at it's best. This is not a sustainable practice or a daily reality for most players. I'm 100% certain that Bungie does not realize that this is the core issue of the game, every match ends with clear winners and clear losers. The winners stay winning and the losers stay quitting.

I wonder how much this can truly be applied. Warthunder's player base has anywhere from 0.5-0.7 kills per spawn (different from K/D, mind) depending on gamemode and if you're going by month or all time, but the playerbase keeps growing. Most games will have a significant portion of 0-2 kill players and a few hitting 5-10 in ground, and Air RB is more punishing in that you don't even get a respawn.
Imagine if in War Thunder, every time you died you had to go back and spend 2 hours building another tank while being bombed from above.
 
I wonder how much this can truly be applied. Warthunder's player base has anywhere from 0.5-0.7 kills per spawn (different from K/D, mind) depending on gamemode and if you're going by month or all time, but the playerbase keeps growing. Most games will have a significant portion of 0-2 kill players and a few hitting 5-10 in ground, and Air RB is more punishing in that you don't even get a respawn.
I haven't played any of warthunder so I cant really comment, but if I had to take a stab in the dark it's probably because every dog has his day in that kind of game and when you do lose it doesn't come across as some kind of personal indictment of skill. The kind of shit casual players need.


I guess the best question is: How often does that full server stomp occur
Typically every match has at least one team that is just tearing people new assholes, for the individual player though I'm sure it's a rarity if you arent playing with a committed team. I've had nights where all we did was ruin every one elses fun and nights were every raid felt like a waste of time and money,

The majority of players seemingly quit in the first few weeks, not even long enough to understand the game, so it doesn't take long for people to turn their back on what ever is happening.
 
I've had nights where all we did was ruin every one elses fun and nights were every raid felt like a waste of time and money,
Ya exactly. I am doing pretty well and it sucks to completely wipe people, there's rarely a sense that both sides had a good time in the fight and look forward to a rematch. The most fun I'm having in the game is breaking up other people's fights, rezzing them with mercy kits and trying to broker peace.
 
Imagine if in War Thunder, every time you died you had to go back and spend 2 hours building another tank while being bombed from above.
While that's a good point, how much meta-progression exists in Marathon? I've followed it mostly as an observer with a friend or two that play so I don't know about that aspect too well.
In all other extraction games, you do typically have a stockpile built up alongside ways to recoup losses through merchants and (in the case of Arc Raiders, at least) crafting from scrap that you get constantly.

I don't think your point is bad, necessarily, but it just feels slightly inaccurate (I can't really describe why...). I do absolutely understand the feeling you're getting at, though, and I'd say you're completely right if I'm just being delusional.
There is still some loss to WT (be it being stuck in a stock tank or having to wait 10-15 minutes including climbing to fight in Air battles), but obviously far less, and there used to be a far greater economic impact on bad players.

Typically every match has at least one team that is just tearing people new assholes, for the individual player though I'm sure it's a rarity if you arent playing with a committed team. I've had nights where all we did was ruin every one elses fun and nights were every raid felt like a waste of time and money,

I think the main thing I should be getting after is that question of how often massive stomps actually occur. In a lot of extraction games there'll be rounds where you encounter next to no one, rounds where you'll kill a guy or two and get out, and rounds where you'll be stomped off the bat. The average player in WT (when looking just per-account) tends to be negative K/D and just not very good at the game at all. I feel like that has to be a worse experience (constantly being mediocre) than having mountainous highs and deep lows that a game like Marathon would give. My perspective is also skewed with WT because I largely play with a full squad and when that's the case we tend to have a 70-80% win rate, with two or three of us being top of the leaderboard most games even when meming, so I have a hard time truly appreciating the solo player experience (which tends to be either amazing or horrible per-game, so I largely avoid it).

For a solo player (assuming they're the majority, maybe at this point they're not) I wouldn't be surprised if the impact is much lower. You're not attached to trying to save a teammate (and less so a rando if they queued for that) when one doesn't exist, and you're probably more likely to play defensively/skittishly — obviously at the detriment of not having manpower, so maybe losses still end up more common than extractions. Has Bungie released statistics of any kind in that regard? I found a site or two that let you do per-player searches but that was all. That plus the server slam stats showing something between 30-40% exfill rates, I wonder if that's actually not all too bad?

Obviously, there's the quote from Bezos about how if people are complaining then even if your stats show you're doing well, it means you're actually doing something wrong. And that basically invalidates all my theorizing lmao.

I should be asking my buddy about his experience more first lol, but a large part of it is that I know my outlook on WT is skewed due to my play habits, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same goes for both my friend and you guys. I don't wanna go around asking pointless questions because of my ignorance, but I do really find the concept of a loss-induced game uninstall breakpoint interesting (horrible phrasing, killing myself).
 
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