Marathon 2025 - Bungie's new AAAA Extraction shooter

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I think the thing that really gets me is that their all time peak - at release mind you - is only around 10% of the amount of people who allegedly bought the game on Steam, and it's been in a steady downward trend since. That last part isn't unexpected, big initial rush to New Game only for it to shrink to a Core Audience, but the sheer difference between "People Who Bought" and "People who Play" is staggering to the point I'm willing to believe some tinfoil hat theories on them pumping numbers for investors.

Again, if they hadn't spent 9 figures on development and advertisement, to say nothing about just how much money Sony threw at acquiring Bungie, this wouldn't be that bad. But because of how much money was thrown into this hole - some back of the napkin math, $3.6B to acquire Bungie, an estimated $250M on Marathon's budget, that's a total investment of $3.85B, give or take depending on the games actual budget - that's beyond catastrophic. That's "Everyone is fucking fired, Shut It Down" levels of burnt money, and I'd kill to know what kind of spin doctoring is going on if/when an Investor starts asking questions...
 
You can potentially argue that the dev costs of Marathon were a known quantity going into their acquisition by Soyny, they had already had this under (at least partial) development no?
So obviously the game itself did not cost $3billion, but they definitely are in the hole on it overall. It is not like that dev cost evaporates when Bungie gets folded into them.
 
So obviously the game itself did not cost $3billion, but they definitely are in the hole on it overall. It is not like that dev cost evaporates when Bungie gets folded into them.
Oh yeah, the game itself didn’t cost $3b, but that’s the hole Bungie and Sony are currently in due to that acquisition. The napkin math just makes this really funny. The only question we have is what the actual budget for Marathon was - I just used $250M because that’s the number I keep seeing floating around.

They spent the GDP of a small to medium sized nation to buy a studio that hasn’t produced anything worth a damn in what, over a decade? Marathon might not be a Concord - that’s probably a once in a generation level of Fuck Up - but I don’t think anyone can dispute it being a Bomb.
 
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Even though i like a lot of things about it, there's been something nagging me about the art design of this game ever since I saw it that really pisses me off, and this post made me realize what it was. it's semiotics. They put all of this effort into creating an aesthetic but they didn't create a design language. There's a how and a what but no why
Considering that the aesthetics were partially plagiarised, it's not surprising that there's no in-world method to the madness. If there was method to it, someone would have spotted the effectively lorem ipsum of design language and asked why it was there.

I've been skimming this thread periodically solely because I liked the Marathon series and I want to see this fail for attempting to shamelessly Weekend At Bernies the corpse of a beloved IP and this is my first time seeing actual gameplay and holy shit this game is fucking ugly for what it is. It looks like Octodad. Or Lethal Company. Or like... it's like if Mirror's Edge wasn't pretty. Like if somebody ported a Mirror's Edge map into Gmod or something. Splatoon. It looks like a Nintendo game.
They have cited Mirror's Edge as an inspiration. As for how well it translated, well... when I was making the concordverse thread, I used a mirror's edge image as a palette cleanser after showing some marathon stuff.

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Ahhhhhh....
 
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Do we think they hit the free to play button soon?
Free to play weekends first.
They would piss off the remaining fans if the game went free before a year.

I don't know where you got those first two numbers from, but they're very wrong. Actually, I'm not sure where you got any of your numbers from.

Saturday the 21st, 15:00 GMT/UTC was 38k
Saturday the 28th, 15:00 UTC was past 28k and only happened after your post.
That's 10k or slightly less, not 20k.

I think you compared the high of sunday to the high of saturday when comparing peaks, where sunday the 22nd was 53569 and saturday the 28th was 43927. Most people'd round those to at least 53.5k and 44k, so only a 9.5k difference (when you do an ACTUAL week-on-week, though, you find saturday the 21st had a peak of 56,683, meaning that the true week-on-week is more like 12.5k).

Note that steam charts at any given moment includes the current day's data and the 7 last complete previous day's data, but the default scope is actually the last 144 hours, so you need to expand it a bit to do true Week on Week comparisons.
From steamdb I can't get the 1w for the 20th anymore at that time, even expanded it wont do 15:00 but at the same time it was 38k
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They have cited Mirror's Edge as an inspiration. As for how well it translated, well... when I was making the concordverse thread, I used a mirror's edge image as a palette cleanser after showing some marathon stuff.
Early builds of the game, with human characters and oxygen system, suggest that they were going for a realistic approach for the game. It probably would've had some elements of what we have now, but not too munch of it and instead more of Mirror's Edge style.

The current style is too experimental and artificial. I don't know why they autistically hyperfixated on it to the point where they made everything in it including the ui and characters. The game doesn't even benefit from the style to get good performance either. They should've stuck with what they had instead of scrapping everything, which ballooned the budget and develompent time and maybe they would've made their money back by now.
 
The current style is too experimental and artificial.
the current style isn't experimental enough. the comparisons to mirror's edge are pretty apt this is like that same general visual idea but taken to a much more bold extreme and i think this would have been enough to sell me on a multiplayer shooter

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i think they're currently targeting the tranny demographic that plays cyberpunk 2077 without realizing that isn't a real demographic, it's propped up by cdproject to fool investors
 
Oh yeah, the game itself didn’t cost $3b, but that’s the hole Bungie and Sony are currently in due to that acquisition. The napkin math just makes this really funny. The only question we have is what the actual budget for Marathon was - I just used $250M because that’s the number I keep seeing floating around.

They spent the GDP of a small to medium sized nation to buy a studio that hasn’t produced anything worth a damn in what, over a decade? Marathon might not be a Concord - that’s probably a once in a generation level of Fuck Up - but I don’t think anyone can dispute it being a Bomb.
Bungie was also bought out to basically be Sony's live service whisperer after Destiny 2, consulting for other live service games under the company's umbrella. And we all know how good that's been going, besides Helldivers 2, and the devs have confirmed Sony had nothing to do with its development.
 
Good thing they asked everyone delay their reviews, didn't wanna miss out on that big fucking Cryo weekend population bump!
I really don't get the plan here.

The weekend-only schedule for the true endgame content feels strange as someone used to playing more open mmo games, but destiny has clearly used it to great effect over the years.

Presumably, the goal of gating content like that is twofold:
1: Make sure everyone has time to prep for a weekend raid night whether they're in a pug or not, and gather players up on that weekend to make pugging for that easier.
2: Conversely, drive players to other content for the rest of week, so there's days to do them too.

It's a solid enough plan, but there's two big problems for an extraction shooter requiring a straight loot check:
1: Because of gear loss, there's a meaningful need to spend time gearing up each week, so you have a buffer - and if you don't have that buffer, you can easily lose your endgame weekend just prepping for next endgame weekend. And thanks to the PVP, you're just as likely to lose gear as you are to gain it, so your prep can very easily backfire and leave you even less ready than when you started.
2: If players struggle with the endgame weekend's content, they don't have until the end of the weekend - they have until their gear reserves run out. Which means that players wanting to grind the endgame can get cut very short due to bad luck. And worse, you can't just get a good set or two and then goof off doing whatever; you have to spend time building that buffer back up again.

Trust modern bungie to repeat all their microtransactions-related mistakes from yesteryear, but preserve the endgame content delivery regardless of how many systems that completely redefine it change around it.
 
Dudes I've talked to have said there are a lot of bots in matches. I wonder how accurate these player stats actually are.
I've seen the exact same thing with delta force, 120,000 players and yet every single person you fight has some generic username and is not playing like a regular human being at all. Would not be surprised if Bungie is doing similar.
 
I don't know why they autistically hyperfixated on it to the point where they made everything in it including the ui and characters
Not even joking when I say this, but the answer is most likely trannies.

the current style isn't experimental enough. the comparisons to mirror's edge are pretty apt this is like that same general visual idea but taken to a much more bold extreme and i think this would have been enough to sell me on a multiplayer shooter
The style of Mirror's Edge had a clear purpose, beyond the striking explosion of fresh color and brightness after the industry had been hyperfixating on the brown filter for so long. In the game you need to make split-second decisions on where to go and what to do, the gameplay loop falls apart if the player can't maintain the speed and momentum or gets lots, so the minimalist style with bold colors that draw attention to the different paths you can take exists for a specific purpose.

Marathon just looks like vomit, it assaults the senses, it reminds me of that new, gay Jaguar commercial that basically killed the company. It's like they deliberately wanted to offend not just the sensibilities of most players, but also everyone's senses. Doesn't help that the style also has nothing to do with the gritty art direction of the original Marathon games.
 
I really don't get the plan here.

The weekend-only schedule for the true endgame content feels strange as someone used to playing more open mmo games, but destiny has clearly used it to great effect over the years.

Presumably, the goal of gating content like that is twofold:
1: Make sure everyone has time to prep for a weekend raid night whether they're in a pug or not, and gather players up on that weekend to make pugging for that easier.
2: Conversely, drive players to other content for the rest of week, so there's days to do them too.

It's a solid enough plan, but there's two big problems for an extraction shooter requiring a straight loot check:
1: Because of gear loss, there's a meaningful need to spend time gearing up each week, so you have a buffer - and if you don't have that buffer, you can easily lose your endgame weekend just prepping for next endgame weekend. And thanks to the PVP, you're just as likely to lose gear as you are to gain it, so your prep can very easily backfire and leave you even less ready than when you started.
2: If players struggle with the endgame weekend's content, they don't have until the end of the weekend - they have until their gear reserves run out. Which means that players wanting to grind the endgame can get cut very short due to bad luck. And worse, you can't just get a good set or two and then goof off doing whatever; you have to spend time building that buffer back up again.

Trust modern bungie to repeat all their microtransactions-related mistakes from yesteryear, but preserve the endgame content delivery regardless of how many systems that completely redefine it change around it.
The only content that has ever been timegated to solely weekends in Destiny is Trials of Osiris (and that single year of Trials of the Nine), and that's never been a big deal because it's a niche PVP activity in the mix of all of the rest of the game's content. Funnel the tryhards into the single endgame PVP mode for a couple of days so you get a decent population, let them do their Lighthouse runs, and then have them wait until the next go around so they want to keep coming back. Iron Banner is like this to an extent as well, except it's for a full week every couple of months (with Trials off for that weekend so people stick with the one activity).

But like you said, while this works for Trials in Destiny, it's retarded for Marathon to limit access to the big dick endgame mode in that way. Instead of gearing up and hopping in when you're ready, you have to sit around and wait until they open the doors again. And then if you get a few bad runs and burn through your stash, it's either burn more of the Cryo Archive window heading back to the lower-tier grind to hope to squeeze in another attempt, or quit for the weekend and hope the next week goes better.

Destiny has never had a problem with having raids accessible every day of the week. This is clearly being done to juice numbers for streamers to promote the game to their audience, not because it's good game design. (I mean, I have opinions about extraction shooters being a good idea in general, but I readily admit I'm not the audience so there's nothing objective about my thoughts there.)
Do we think they hit the free to play button soon?
It took the Destiny franchise five years before they made it F2P, and even then the game is sorely limited on what you can do without buying expansions. But that was based off of the game already having done gangbusters in actual game sales; remember that they had millions of daily players for quite a while there. Even if we assume a million copies of Marathon have been sold to date, that's nowhere near as good.

I could see them going to a similar model as D2 eventually, where you get the base game for free and then have to pay for the latest batch of content, but I don't think they can afford to swap off of the current model just yet, and not just because the people who already bought in would feel betrayed by having the game go free to play so soon. They would only do it if they think that the increased number of players coming in because it's free to play would spend enough on microtransactions to make up the difference; that is to say, if the population quadruples and players spend more than $10 apiece on skins, it would be worth it to switch. I imagine they're already getting an idea of what people are willing to spend internally, though it wouldn't surprise me if those numbers aren't good either. As I said before, who wants to play digital dress-up with such ugly character models?
The style of Mirror's Edge had a clear purpose, beyond the striking explosion of fresh color and brightness after the industry had been hyperfixating on the brown filter for so long. In the game you need to make split-second decisions on where to go and what to do, the gameplay loop falls apart if the player can't maintain the speed and momentum or gets lots, so the minimalist style with bold colors that draw attention to the different paths you can take exists for a specific purpose.

Marathon just looks like vomit, it assaults the senses, it reminds me of that new, gay Jaguar commercial that basically killed the company. It's like they deliberately wanted to offend not just the sensibilities of most players, but also everyone's senses. Doesn't help that the style also has nothing to do with the gritty art direction of the original Marathon games.
The irony is that weird visuals do exist in the original Marathon games, but only where it makes sense: the Pfhor ships. They're weird, they're alien, they've got really funky ships with bright colors throughout, so it's very striking when you make the jump from the Marathon or Lh'owon to a Pfhor battlecruiser. They were very deliberate with the textures and color palettes for each of the environments, easily cluing you in as a player to where you were supposed to be: human, Pfhor, ancient ruins, the Jjaro station. It's the same visual language that persisted into Halo (human/Covenant/Forerunner) and Destiny (human races and alien races).

I get that the levels thus far are all UESC-related, whether it's colony buildings or the Marathon itself, so it all looking samey makes sense. But nothing in the design language actually says this was built by humans for humans, especially not in the same way as the original trilogy did. There were definitely some nonsense rooms in those games where you just kind of had to guess at what part of the ship you were supposed to be in, but it all looked industrial and sturdy, like it was built tough because it had to be to survive the rigors of space. This game's environments look like they're made out of plastic tarps and shipping crates that someone splashed neon paint on at random.
 
The current style is too experimental and artificial. I don't know why they autistically hyperfixated on it to the point where they made everything in it including the ui and characters. The game doesn't even benefit from the style to get good performance either. They should've stuck with what they had instead of scrapping everything, which ballooned the budget and develompent time and maybe they would've made their money back by now.
As I said before it is very hard to sell skins in the realistic game since there are limitations on how characters could look without breaking immersion. It is also easier for artists since it they don't have to consider whether skins or its elements have logic or utility behind it. But more importantly you can make more and more extreme skins to make them more interesting to buy. All games start from skins which are slight recolor of basic models but end up having extra animations, pets etc.

Pretty sure changes happened when that director from Valorant started working on Marathon. Having classes is also virtually increases amount of skins you can sell since most consoomers want to dress up all characters.
 
the gameplay loop falls apart if the player can't maintain the speed and momentum or gets lots, so the minimalist style with bold colors that draw attention to the different paths you can take exists for a specific purpose
I mean that's perfect for a high speed low drag high octane extraction shooter but they cocked it up because they wanted it to make an impression on impressionable people not a good game
 
i think they're currently targeting the tranny demographic
Yeah, that cool thing? It's actually [tranny/jew/leftist/indian/boogeyman of the week], I bet you feel really stupid right now.
Also, I should replay Catalyst, maybe I've grown inoculated to the tacked-on combat system by now. New Mirror's Edge game when?
 
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