Magic The Gathering

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Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
Secret tech: Walking Atlas. Also, I guess, terrain generator. Of course, these work well with any color that draws a lot of cards, which is blue, black, and white.

Journeyer's Kite and Thaumatic Compass also work absurdly well in draw-go control blue decks. Nothing you need to react to? Snab a land, hit a drop every turn. Pair it with Atlas or Generator to snab a land and play it, too.

Blue getting access to Midnight Clock, one of the best rocks in the format (horrendously underrated), helps it out, too. Though admittedly, this card is better for aggressive or tempo styles that expect to dump their hand.

Green does have the best acceleration of any of the colors, yeah, but in my experience most of the people who say that causes green to have a stranglehold are the sorts of people who keep cutting lands and mana sources when a new shiny comes out. I know it's boring for half of your 100 cards to be dedicated to mana in one way or another, but it just works for consistency.
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Sapphire Medallion, Mind Stone, Thought Vessel, Prismatic Lens, Sky Diamond, Silver Myr, Arcane Signet, Manakin. Ichorclaw Myr, Ornithopter of Paradise

There is 10 Ramp sources at 2 that you can play in Mono Blue, and the 3 that are just for blue are parts of full cycles and the Medallion's are the only really expensive ones the rest are cheap as fuck.

Will they get blown out by Mass Artifact or Creature destruction? Yep.

But that is not an issue with the ramp, That is an issue with people..(including Sheldon..RIP IN Pepporoni Sheldon but you had some stupid takes) getting pissy about MLD so Green's best ramp can't be sensibly interacted with.

That is a Wizards issue with being faggots and not being willing to directly punish land ramp. We need Balance for Creatures and Lands at 1W.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
getting pissy about MLD
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I'm in the same boat - in that I love blood moon, back to basics, decimation, etc - but I also meet in the middle-ground. The game needs more genuine-search punishers. At current, we have:
Ashiok, Dream Render
Shadow of Doubt
Opposition Agent
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
(River Song lolololol)

MLD is easy to fire at the wrong time and make the game utterly miserable. By contrast, cutting off searching is kindof a no-brainer to someone dropping some mana on a cultivate, but there's not really a lot of cards that enable it. Honestly, if they would just fucking reprint Shadow of Doubt in something other than a shitty secret lair, that card being affordable would do a ton to help shit on greedy simic decks.

I should also say, cards like the Deep Gnome Terramancer don't really punish extra ramping. Those are good cards, and I like them, but we need a punish, not a "I-get-benefits-too" to resolve the issue.
 
Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
I'm in the same boat - in that I love blood moon, back to basics, decimation, etc - but I also meet in the middle-ground. The game needs more genuine-search punishers. At current, we have:
Ashiok, Dream Render
Shadow of Doubt
Opposition Agent
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
(River Song lolololol)

MLD is easy to fire at the wrong time and make the game utterly miserable. By contrast, cutting off searching is kindof a no-brainer to someone dropping some mana on a cultivate, but there's not really a lot of cards that enable it. Honestly, if they would just fucking reprint Shadow of Doubt in something other than a shitty secret lair, that card being affordable would do a ton to help shit on greedy simic decks.

I should also say, cards like the Deep Gnome Terramancer don't really punish extra ramping. Those are good cards, and I like them, but we need a punish, not a "I-get-benefits-too" to resolve the issue.
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There needs to exist some cards that knock green back post-ramp though, which is why I said like Balance..Specifically hit the person with the most lands (and affect the creatures as well because you can't really just take a turn off to police the green player)
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
There needs to exist some cards that knock green back post-ramp though
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The problem with a lot of that is that if you Keldon Firebombers, the green player is also going to be the one to likely have the easiest time recovering.

A part of this is just a natural consequence of the game's design. The natural counter to ramp and big, splashy spells is control - counters (unless something is uncounterable) deal well with someone spending a lot of resources to accelerate a big, spooky threat - and barring that, a removal spell that trades up manawise does it. These just don't work as well in a multiplayer format.

I am actually a fan of Scholarship Sponsor, though. Generally speaking, most people won't run many basics, even in two-color decks. Build your deck right, and this card can let you catch right up to the green player's advantage, and maybe give a few other players at the table a similar advantage - and you get a 3/3 alongside, which isn't terrible. Spiteful Repossession is also an interesting revenge-catchup, but it often feels like these effects need to go a little further, without some way to punish someone far ahead of the rest of the table in land count.
 
Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
The problem with a lot of that is that if you Keldon Firebombers, the green player is also going to be the one to likely have the easiest time recovering.
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That is why I am saying it needs to be cheaper, so you can tap out, blow the field then follow up with a haymaker. Green can try to recover but they gotta deal with a threat on the table to while doing that (If Green keeps a real threat you did your part somebody else needs to do some fucking interaction you lazy faggots REEEEE *glares at the rest of the table who don't play any interaction)

Or make it work like Tragic Arrogance or new Wandering Waifu and let the caster pick the things everyone keeps.
 
I don't mean you don't have options in Blue, I mean you don't have additional options. Anyone can run artifacts.

Like Black can run Urborg+Coffers and has other swamp mana doublers and grab them with tutors, White had a bunch of plains only ramp, Red has treasures tied into every card printed in the last 5 years, Blue just has a few things to untap lands/artifacts for 0 mana and not much else.

Also I only really have a problem with MLD when it's fair. Casting Armageddon on turn 4 just adds an hour to the game, Casting Armageddon on turn 6 and someone resolving Heroic Intervention or Teferi's Protection is fine, go off king and then push our shit in so we can start another game.
 
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Oddjob OTP said:
I don't mean you don't have options in Blue, I mean you don't have additional options. Anyone can run artifacts.
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Yes, and that is all you really need to be honest.

Like Black can run Urborg+Coffers and has other swamp mana doublers and grab them with tutors,
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Those come at a cost though, and honestly grabbing Coffers with a Tutor is one of the worst things you can tutor for unless you are really behind, turning Demonic Tutor into a Sylvan Scrying is a really hurts, and with the amount of playable utility lands Coffers is becoming less of a powerhouse, I've been counting it as a ramp spell more than an actual land in the past couple of years because it has become less reliable over the years.

Also I only really have a problem with MLD when it's fair. Casting Armageddon on turn 4 just adds an hour to the game, Casting Armageddon on turn 6 and someone resolving Heroic Intervention or Teferi's Protection is fine, go off king and then push our shit in so we can start another game.
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I don't even thing Armageddon is a GOOD card anymore, like yah if you can combo with it..okay. It does nothing to solve issues with other permanent types, and honestly trying to MLD into Intervention and Protection is a dangerous play that can backfire if someone has a counterspell.
 
Oddjob OTP said:
Like Black can run Urborg+Coffers and has other swamp mana doublers and grab them with tutors, White had a bunch of plains only ramp, Red has treasures tied into every card printed in the last 5 years, Blue just has a few things to untap lands/artifacts for 0 mana and not much else.
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I see a lot of talk about whether treasures were a mistake or not. I get them as an effort by WotC to allow red access to temp mana in an easier to track way, seems to me the easiest way to "fix" their current problem would be...
1) Make cards that generate tapped treasures. (so you have to wait to use them or do shenanigans)
2) Create a treasure subset that taps for specific mana. Especially for red, instead of "tap-sac for any color" make tokens that specifically tap-sac for R.

But then it wouldn't be WotC if they didn't miss obvious solutions to their own problems.
 
Flexo said:
1) Make cards that generate tapped treasures. (so you have to wait to use them or do shenanigans)
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The worst part is that they've tried this before, yet to date the term of "tapped treasure token" only appears on five cards, and only two among those are part of a Standard set. So close to realizing that tapped is more fair, all to be tossed out by the next set.
Even with the balancing aside, it's just so boring to see cards get pumped out with "make a free Lotus Petal" stapled to them.
 
Flexo said:
That does also bug my OCD that they called the tokens "treasures" instead of lotus petals.
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I hadn’t made the connection until this thread, so now it’s gonna bug me forever…

Re: the rest of this commander autism:
I think banning ring would be fine, but I think that command tower and signet both being as avalible as they are, it’s somewhat pointless? I do my best to cut ring every chance I get as a chance to make my decks “more fair” especially when I know I’m going to be playing against people I could/have regularly beat. My play group is not as autistic about about their sequencing, and I’m more interested in the goofs that’ll come up in game. The main deck I can think of that I kept sol ring in is my Blim, Comedic Genius deck, and that’s to facilitate passing it off after blim hits the table. I think it’s an important tool to let players build around commanders they might usually not try out, but it can be a crutch for players that aren’t willing to be more imaginative about building limitations.
 
Logistical Nightmare said:
I think banning ring would be fine, but I think that command tower and signet both being as avalible as they are, it’s somewhat pointless? I do my best to cut ring every chance I get as a chance to make my decks “more fair” especially when I know I’m going to be playing against people I could/have regularly beat. My play group is not as autistic about about their sequencing, and I’m more interested in the goofs that’ll come up in game. The main deck I can think of that I kept sol ring in is my Blim, Comedic Genius deck, and that’s to facilitate passing it off after blim hits the table. I think it’s an important tool to let players build around commanders they might usually not try out, but it can be a crutch for players that aren’t willing to be more imaginative about building limitations.
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I kind of hate Arcane Signet as well as Sol Ring, Command Tower is a little less Egregious just because there are like 3 5 color lands that deal damage to you for colored mana, a fourth and fifth one with Path of Ancestry which if you are playing 3 colors you should have regardless of Tribal Synergy is just kind of a lost cause already.
 
As someone who thinks no land should be above uncommon, command tower and arcane signet are nice, affordable mana fixing for newbies.

Though sometimes I keep dreaming about making an Archelos so then all the cheap tap mana fixers are suddenly fast mana. I just can't decide how I want to win (though with U/B/G I could also just control the whole board - counterspells, murders, and fogs oh my!)
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
@Oddjob OTP

We were both wrong about which one people would play when it came to Underdog vs Dreadnight.

The answer is.."Fuck it both of them" apparently.
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Yeah, I've been playing Golgari Midrange in standard probably as much as anything and the deck I stole is running 4 Knights and 2 Corndogs. I feel that probably the wrong split though because it's maindecking Liliana and discarding corndog while your opponent throws a card that won't recur itself is the dream but I haven't gotten around to fixing it. I still feel the only real difference in practice other that being easier to counter and break up the loop is that Knight makes 2 landers a bit more keepable.
 
Oddjob OTP said:
Yeah, I've been playing Golgari Midrange in standard probably as much as anything and the deck I stole is running 4 Knights and 2 Corndogs. I feel that probably the wrong split though because it's maindecking Liliana and discarding corndog while your opponent throws a card that won't recur itself is the dream but I haven't gotten around to fixing it. I still feel the only real difference in practice other that being easier to counter and break up the loop is that Knight makes 2 landers a bit more keepable.
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I been running them both two, 3 and 3 of each, the biggest thing I notice is without Sheoldred out the 2 life from Underdog does add up quickly.
 
And here I am just using massive card advantage via graveyard casting, wishboards, and an infinite mana/card engine at the end.

Also I tried making the new adventure cards work since I finally had enough time to rework my deck and try it out with my friends.
They "jump-start"ed them, everything is like a mana too much and almost all of it on the wrong end, as can be attested to shit like frolicking familiar.
If familiar was just a 2CMC flying + prowess with no haste as a tradeoff for it's insta-jolt spell in comparison to storm mage it would've be gucci but no.
I have one familiar for flavor at least, to remind me to never look at that card subtype ever again.

Raff and Rona from the Phyrexia arc are good wizard tribals tho, since harmonic prodigy. I didn't bother trying the other expansions since they're all cringe.
 
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