Magic The Gathering

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Oddjob OTP said:
Yeah, it's kind of cringe they didn't lean into trying to fix the party mechanic in AFR,
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Well to be honest there is no real "Fixing" the mechanic itself without just throwing the thing out and starting from scratch. Unless they were to go ham and print a bunch of cheap party cards in two colors with incremental effects.

But that could be said of any mechanic, Soulshift* could be good if they printed a bunch of decent costed cards for it in 2 colors.

*Soulshift is not an inherently bad mechanic tbh, it could be an incredibly powerful value engine if it had enough members to chain it properly.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Well to be honest there is no real "Fixing" the mechanic itself without just throwing the thing out and starting from scratch. Unless they were to go ham and print a bunch of cheap party cards in two colors with incremental effects.

But that could be said of any mechanic, Soulshift* could be good if they printed a bunch of decent costed cards for it in 2 colors.

*Soulshift is not an inherently bad mechanic tbh, it could be an incredibly powerful value engine if it had enough members to chain it properly.
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It was baffling to me that even if they didn't want to reference "party" directly, they could still have smoothed it out more by having more creatures with the right classes or even dual class creatures.

Heck imagine party if the class enchantments got to count towards it.

It does bug me that WotC will come up with an idea that has some potential and is well balanced but they don't quite pull it off then abandon it.

Want to make bets on whether party will return in the Baulder's Gate draft set?
 
Want to make bets on whether party will return in the Baulder's Gate draft set?
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I hope not, but I bet they do because Maro is a Lolcow and ignores what works and tries repeatedly to force shit that doesn't work to be good.
 
Like I said, there is a viable party deck that mostly works and is like T1.5-2 in 22 standard, it's not that the mechanic doesn't work well (for midrange) it's that the mechanic was barely supported in the set it was released in and Kaldheim helped a lot with changeling cards but STX and AFR did almost nothing for it. A lot of the non creature party cards are basically "pay entirely too much unless you have a full party, and the you can have the effect for a 1 mana discount" which really cements it as a just don't interact with the opponent until you have a full party mechanic. If there were cards with smaller pay offs that turned on before full party it might be more interesting to play with/against. Dungeons is another example of a mechanic that will never do much outside of standard but it's a much more interesting mechanic because you can start progressing the dungeon and interacting with your opponent on turn 3 with one card instead of 5 or 6 if you drew and played all the pieces and they stayed in play.
 
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I'd say there's a reasonably good chance Party comes back in the Baldur's Gate set just because so many people were expecting it to show up in AFR and complained when it didn't.

I hope it doesn't, though. The mechanic is so weak.

Innistrad spoilers continue to chug along and continue to be definitely a collection of playing cards. This set doesn't feel quite as paint-by-numbers or phoned in as Ravnica sets are, but I get the distinct feeling that they're not really trying.

On the story side, there's a bunch of planeswalker cameos, but it seems like they're choosing them on the basis of whose powers check the right boxes to move the plot along. Like, they need someone who can interact with time because of the whole day/night thing, and Teferi is the guy who checks that box; they need someone who can murder ghosts and Kaya is the one who checks that box; Wrenn is literally just there to grab a tree so Wizards can set up a story beat for the Return to Dominaria set next year. I'm not sure why Kaya or Teferi would even show up to Innistrad in the first place, they have no ties to the place and no reason or need to be there (aside from plot requirements and a desire to keep planeswalker mechanical toolsets unique in the card design realm).

It's all so...I don't know if boring is the right word...utilitarian, maybe? I can see exactly what they're trying to do and they're doing it in the most straightforward way possible.
 
It's like they decided that the only problem with the Jacestice League was a lack of black people.
 
They're not doing core sets any more, so they're dulling down the rest to make up for it. Innistrad looks to only have a few things that might see play anywhere outside standard.
 
cuddle striker said:
They're not doing core sets any more, so they're dulling down the rest to make up for it. Innistrad looks to only have a few things that might see play anywhere outside standard.
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More like they are are cutting back the power level trying to avoid Throne of Eldraine/Ikoria'ing every single format every time they release a new set. It's appreciated, 22 Standard is a much more chill format then dealing with some combination of Emergent Ultimatum, Drown in the Loch, Bonecrusher and Winota every single match.
 
Like I said, there is a viable party deck that mostly works and is like T1.5-2 in 22 standard, it's not that the mechanic doesn't work well (for midrange)
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It is a Win-More mechanic.

If you have 4 Creatures that aren't Absolute Shit in any constructed format and don't see a boardwipe or removal you should win in a turn or two. Also 22 standard is BO1 and is missing a set, it is not exactly something that can be held up as a shining example of a mechanics viability in a real format.
 
With the Magic World Championship going on this weekend, has there been any recently Lolcow-like incidents in these events, given that they're online?
 
Thiletonomics said:
With the Magic World Championship going on this weekend, has there been any recently Lolcow-like incidents in these events, given that they're online?
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None so far and I wouldn't expect any either. Holding it online eliminates the potential for cheating and the lack of a proper chat eliminates the ability for cows/a-logs to stand out there either. The Top 4 players are all from Europe or Japan too so we probably won't get a cringe "muh diversity" interview with whoever ends up winning either.
 
New Secret Lair announced. Art ranges from total shit to "okay, I'd buy that." The Stranger Things set looks better than The Walking Dead one, but its still boring as shit for Magic art.

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Bans came out after Worlds, lot of people are salty Alrund's Epiphany missed the axe in standard because a few R/U control decks are favored against midrange. I'm not sure what world they lived in where they expect any decent control deck to not shit on midrange and then run away with the game by casting a >6 mana spell but that's the way it is. It doesn't really help their case that the final match in Worlds was a midrange gruul deck with a blue splash for a couple counters that doesn't run it vs. izzet dragons which is a midrange tempo deck that does run it but the player boarded it out for more interaction. Dragons won.

Meanwhile, I'm just playing Orzov Clerics which is midrange but does pretty good against control because it reanimates them and tutors them easily. I played a lot of Izzet Dragons last standard Strix through AFR and while it's probably the best Bo3 deck in standard I'm kind of worn out on it.
 
The issue with Alrund's is essentially that it makes using any other win condition in control completely pointless, which grossly homogenizes that end of the spectrum. On the other hand, the people whining about it tend to be the ones who are running the braindead green midrange decks, which similarly push out other midrange decks, most control decks, and have strangled all but a handful of aggressive or tempo decks while making maybe two actual decisions a match.

It's a pretty boring standard environment at the moment. Most of the issue that led to such a homogenous environment comes from overall power creep, too, and isn't really going to be solved by just stripping out a few cards. I was having some fun with UW tempo for a bit, but after about the 70th consecutive match of either Gx midrange or UR control, the tedium was just a bit much.
 
Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
The issue with Alrund's is essentially that it makes using any other win condition in control completely pointless, which grossly homogenizes that end of the spectrum. On the other hand, the people whining about it tend to be the ones who are running the braindead green midrange decks, which similarly push out other midrange decks, most control decks, and have strangled all but a handful of aggressive or tempo decks while making maybe two actual decisions a match.

It's a pretty boring standard environment at the moment. Most of the issue that led to such a homogenous environment comes from overall power creep, too, and isn't really going to be solved by just stripping out a few cards. I was having some fun with UW tempo for a bit, but after about the 70th consecutive match of either Gx midrange or UR control, the tedium was just a bit much.
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By games played it's pretty much all mono white and mono green aggro and then izzet dragons/control and then everything else. I'd say the problem is that most decks can deal with Izzet control/tempo or aggro decks, or wrenn and seven + chariot but not reliably all 3 even after sideboard. I agree that the tears are mostly wrenn and seven fags since they get bullied by aggro and control.

Also my hobby in play on MTGA is playing non-alrund's decks built in the izzet shell (delver spells, which plays only 5 lands that aren't also spells and izzet burn) and farming concedes from people thinking I'm playing turns because they got their turn 1 and 2 erased by my removal spells.
 
Oddjob OTP said:
By games played it's pretty much all mono white and mono green aggro and then izzet dragons/control and then everything else.
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I don't know if you're just talking bo1, because monowhite isn't really that popular on bo3 ladder: https://mtgazone.com/standard-bo3-metagame-tier-list/
While this thing isn't literally exhaustive, the makeup in terms of percent is absurd. Nearly half of the field is Gx or UR, and I don't really think UR is the problem - you can actually board against UR. Green's problem isn't Wrenn - it's that everything in the deck dropping before turn 5 is ludicrously undercosted, generally hard to remove due to having multiple permanent types, and gives you advantage by doing things you already want to do.

Monowhite has a favorable matchup against the two top contenders, but it's not super popular because it (and the UW tempo deck) require you to be very careful with your mulligans, be very specific with your removal usage, and generally know your opponents' decks in and out because of how fragile aggro is against chariot and cinderclasm. The green deck is mostly frustrating because it plays itself: at least the UR deck has to decide between expressive iteration and using removal.
 
Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
I don't know if you're just talking bo1, because monowhite isn't really that popular on bo3 ladder: https://mtgazone.com/standard-bo3-metagame-tier-list/
While this thing isn't literally exhaustive, the makeup in terms of percent is absurd. Nearly half of the field is Gx or UR, and I don't really think UR is the problem - you can actually board against UR. Green's problem isn't Wrenn - it's that everything in the deck dropping before turn 5 is ludicrously undercosted, generally hard to remove due to having multiple permanent types, and gives you advantage by doing things you already want to do.

Monowhite has a favorable matchup against the two top contenders, but it's not super popular because it (and the UW tempo deck) require you to be very careful with your mulligans, be very specific with your removal usage, and generally know your opponents' decks in and out because of how fragile aggro is against chariot and cinderclasm. The green deck is mostly frustrating because it plays itself: at least the UR deck has to decide between expressive iteration and using removal.
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On your link it's listed as 4th most popular after Mono-green, Izzet Turns and Izzet Dragons, it's just markedly less popular then the other 3. But it's worth grouping with green aggro because they are good for more or less the same reason (adding to 20 before the opponent can get control of the game) even if they are much different in practice (green evades most red removal by their key cards just having more health then you can easily do with anything but the 4 damage spells and requiring 2+ spells to fully remove and white has really good interaction because both sides of Ridane and Elite Spellbinder are good at disrupting other decks win cons).

So I don't even think I disagree with you, you really just have to play cards on curve in mono-green and turn them sideways and win, most other decks have real decisions. Which is why I'm playing try hard decks like Orzov Clerics and Mardu Sacrifice to have a good time because there's a very real danger I fuck myself in sequencing things or dropping the wrong side of a pathway. Ranger Class, Chariot + Wrenn and Old Growth Troll along with the 3 Blizzard Brawls that green draws in it's first 15 cards annoy me much harder then playing a control or tempo deck that takes an extra turn + 2 birds on turn 6/7.
 
Oddjob OTP said:
Ranger Class, Chariot + Wrenn and Old Growth Troll along with the 3 Blizzard Brawls that green draws in it's first 15 cards annoy me much harder then playing a control or tempo deck that takes an extra turn + 2 birds on turn 6/7.
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Yeah, green is the problem. Alrund's is an annoyingly strong card that homogenizes control decks, but it's pretty easy to board and deal with. You can't board to deal with green, really. Monowhite is one of the few decks that is able to go under green, which is just absurd because the 'aggro' green decks are just midrange decks where every slot is a mana cheaper than it probably should be.

If they kill off chariot, the green shell is still absurdly strong - but at least other aggro decks might actually survive. White manages to beat out the green shell because it can fly over their absurd blockers and delay the cards that immediately stabilize them. A lot of those other aggressive decks could also bully the UR shells, but they stand absolutely no chance against the G engine.
 
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