💰 Grifter "Mad at the Internet" - a/k/a My Psychotherapy Sessions

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Why did xhe decide to banzai a cop? I'm pretty sure he was just there to tell you to turn down the nigger beats.
What was the plan here?
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@Null have you ever thought about doing streams while you work on sneedforo? I don't necessarily mean streaming the actual codebase as you work on it, more just you kind of rambling and occasionally responding to chat while you work, maybe explaining some of your process at a high level. It could potentially give you a way to rubber duck debug by describing things to chat and talking through it
 
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Shout out to KiwiFarms in the Sweet Baby Inc CEO's PowerPoint presentation about how the internet ruined her life.
I like how there direct quotes from other sites' users, but for the Farms they just post the logo. We actually do have a games forum thread about Sweet Baby Inc. but it's a passive thread discussing the culture war combatants on both sides and not as "active" as a lolcow thread. They didn't do the research, again. KF isn't blamed anywhere else for Sweet Baby counter-activism.

@Null have you ever thought about doing streams while you work on sneedforo? I don't necessarily mean streaming the actual codebase as you work on it, more just you kind of rambling and occasionally responding to chat while you work, maybe explaining some of your process at a high level. It could potentially give you a way to rubber duck debug by describing things to chat and talking through it
If you're talkin' you ain't codin'.
 
@Null have you ever thought about doing streams while you work on sneedforo? I don't necessarily mean streaming the actual codebase as you work on it, more just you kind of rambling and occasionally responding to chat while you work, maybe explaining some of your process at a high level. It could potentially give you a way to rubber duck debug by describing things to chat and talking through it
> do a Jason Thor Hall larp
great idea
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He survived the physical wounds, but will he actually make it?
 
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@Null have you ever thought about doing streams while you work on sneedforo? I don't necessarily mean streaming the actual codebase as you work on it, more just you kind of rambling and occasionally responding to chat while you work, maybe explaining some of your process at a high level. It could potentially give you a way to rubber duck debug by describing things to chat and talking through it
could you imagine the amount of backseat coding? it would be awful.
 
could you imagine the amount of backseat coding? it would be awful.

"Did you just use 2 spaces instead of 4?"
"Is that Allman style?"
"You don't prefix your member variables properly."
"Ackshually sweaty, you could return out of the first condition."

...
 
I'm curious what's so fucking funny recently in MATI streams that makes you go ACKACKACKACKACKACKACK every 15 seconds. IIRC a late September stream had you ACKACKACK at literally nothing at all for a full minute. You're approaching Lowtax levels in how annoying listening to you is.
Second thing, when you play a video it's usually too silent, so I bump volume up, but then you ACKACKACK like a thunderstorm.
 
without exaggeration I know nothing about orchard.

edit: I genuinely cannot stand any buckbroken commentary that tries to pretend a tranny is a woman. If you're she/hurring a hulking dude talking about fucking pokemon I just X out. Same with Matt Orchard (no relation?) and the pig troon, same with EWU and the others. Just can't stand it. I hate it.
 
if anyone's willing to spend 5 dollars to help me test something, subscribe to the rumble channel, I'm testing something.
 
I genuinely cannot stand any buckbroken commentary that tries to pretend a tranny is a woman. If you're she/hurring a hulking dude talking about fucking pokemon I just X out. Same with Matt Orchard (no relation?) and the pig troon, same with EWU and the others. Just can't stand it. I hate it.
In terms of compromise on this topic, I have been willing to consneed in public and if I were to be in a similar position to SlopToobers to using "they" for any person of gender, even if they identified as a woman. That way you could appease the people complaining about not making trans folx feel hecking valid but you don't also have to debase yourself by calling a man a women and vise verse.
 
Consensus shifted that it actually is a woman, just a really fuckin big one. The post on xitter was updated to include this:

so I got curious and went to see if I could find any social media and found an Instagram account for her. Aside from the height she looks like a pretty average looking black lady. There's a bunch of replies under some comments that disappear when I try to view them. Anybody know how to make those visible?

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This kinda stood out also.
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I honestly could not tell its a man, vast majority of black women look like troons. The 6’5" is a giveaway i guess.
I updated my post after finding out she was actually a Woman. It shocked me because she had a deeper voice and you rarely see woman that tall.
 
I updated my post after finding out she was actually a Woman. It shocked me because she had a deeper voice and you rarely see woman that tall.
honest mistake. you're not the first person to see a colored women's college basketball star and think "that's a fullgrown man"
 
@Null Wikipedos are getting MOGGED by Indian High Courts as the India government, really just the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) party of their PM Narendra Modi has labeled wikipedia as part of the "Western Deep State" (trve btw) after losing 2 high profile Indian lawsuits. I found this from a substack chuddy called "Fisted By Foucault" that's run by Niccolo Soldo who was one of the dudes involved in the old Salo Forums believe it or not. Here's some choice quotes from the article he's referencing.
Source Article: Will Indian Courts Tame Wikipedia?
That may change soon, though, as two recent court cases concerning Wikipedia raised alarms after a high-court judge threatened to ban the encyclopedia if identified users weren’t unmasked and a spokesperson for the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) labeled the site as part of the “Western deep state.”
---
The Indian government issued Information Technology (IT) Rules, 2021 in February of the same year. Observers immediately noted that these rules provide greater authority to regulate foreign social media companies and control domestic political and social expression on digital platforms.
The rules included Intermediary Guidelines requiring social platforms and other online service providers to take action against content when ordered to do so by a court or government entity, along with so-called “hostage-taking laws” compelling these companies to appoint a chief compliance officer in the country who can be legally held accountable for any violations.
The shift’s impact was felt across numerous platforms but was especially pronounced on Twitter, which had previously fought against censorship requests in Indian courts. By 2023, the Washington Post reported that Twitter (by then rebranded as X) was routinely removing posts critical of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his administration and suspending accounts belonging to journalists and BJP opponents.
India vs. Wikipedia - Case One:
In 2022, author and BJP spokesperson Tuhin A. Sinha initiated legal proceedings against the Wikimedia Foundation after his Wikipedia entry, which had existed since 2006, was suddenly deleted that March. In his petition, Sinha claimed that the deletion damaged his business and “political equity.” The complaint further stated that the deletion violated the newly adopted Information Technology Rules and relevant Wikipedia guidelines.
In a September hearing, Saket District Court judge Twinkle Wadhwa issued a summons to the Wikimedia Foundation to respond in person. Sinha penned a celebratory op-ed in response.
“[T]his is a fight against the Western deep state,” Sinha wrote. “Wikimedia’s recent malafide acts of omission and commission, whether it was my profile or any other, was agenda-driven. The objective of this fight is very clear – Wikipedia, like other intermediaries, has to respect Indian laws and conduct itself impartially as it influences perceptions, both personal and political.”
Sinha’s Wikipedia issue seemed to find resolution a month later when an editor recreated his article. The court case remains ongoing, though, as the matter of compensation is still outstanding.
Case Two:
This past July, the Indian news agency Asian News International (ANI) filed a defamation suit at the Delhi High Court against the Wikimedia Foundation over an allegedly slanderous description of ANI on the online encyclopedia.
At the time of the suit, the Wikipedia entry for ANI stated that the agency “has been criticized for having served as a propaganda tool for the incumbent central government, distributing materials from a vast network of fake news websites, and misreporting events.” (The passage has been slightly reworded since then, but the critical framing remains intact.)
The Wikimedia Foundation responded with a familiar disclaimer noting that the Foundation itself “does not add, edit or determine content” and that editorial decisions are instead determined “by its global community of volunteer editors.”

ANI, in turn, argued that their attempts to revise the passage “showcasing [the] true and correct position, supported by trusted sources,” were removed by Wikipedia. “This malicious conduct of the Defendants [Wikipedia] ex-facie establishes their ulterior motives of defaming Plaintiff [ANI] by publishing false and misleading content against Plaintiff,” ANI’s plea stated.
In August, the court ordered the Foundation to disclose personal information about three volunteer editors who had restored the alleged defamatory passages to the ANI article after the news agency attempted to remove them.

The Foundation did not comply by the deadline, which ANI argued “clearly demonstrates willful disobedience of the order.” Counsel for the Wikimedia Foundation pushed back, arguing that the delay in providing details about the three editors was strictly logistical due to the Foundation’s lack of physical presence in India.
The last bolded portion shows how complex these issues can be.
Nevertheless:
On September 5 Justice Navin Chawla agreed with ANI and sent a contempt of court notice to the Foundation.
“It is not a question of the defendant not being an entity in India,” Chawla explained. “We will close your business transactions here. We will ask the government to block Wikipedia.”
The next hearing is scheduled for October 25 and the Delhi High Court has ordered an “authorized representative” of the non-profit to be personally present.
Wikipedia has in the past lost defamation cases in places like France and Germany, meaning that India (or Indian companies and citizens) are not acting out of the ordinary.
As the public battle between Elon Musk and the Brazilian judiciary carried out over the summer, there was an expectation that many of the insults (from Musk) and hardlines (from the Brazilian government) were simply posturing. Brazil was, after all, one of the largest markets for X, with tens of millions of users. Surely the two sides would reach an agreement? Alas, the issues of contention were too politically charged, especially given Musk’s outspokenness against Lula da Silva’s administration and affinities with far-right former President Jair Bolsonaro.
That same political and regulatory alignment is evident in India, and Wikipedians are already speculating on the long-term consequences.
“I would personally hate to see Wikipedia get banned in India,” an editor at an India-related noticeboard said. “India has the largest English-speaking population in the world, especially as a second or third language. A ban could affect access to a valuable source of information for millions, and it would certainly impact Wikipedia’s presence in one of the largest user bases in the world.”
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Full Article text in quotes for those too lazy:
Governments worldwide are no longer hesitant to crack down on social media companies and their executives. In August, Pavel Durov, the billionaire founder of the Telegram messaging app, was arrested in France as part of a broad investigation into criminal activity on the platform. Days later, a Brazilian Supreme Court justice blocked access to X, one of the country’s most popular social networks, amid a showdown with owner Elon Musk. And this month a Washington D.C. district court will hear arguments about whether the U.S. government can ban TikTok.

Lost in the noise generated by these high-profile disputes, India’s attempts to regulate Western social platforms have received little attention. That may change soon, though, as two recent court cases concerning Wikipedia raised alarms after a high-court judge threatened to ban the encyclopedia if identified users weren’t unmasked and a spokesperson for the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) labeled the site as part of the “Western deep state.”

Wikipedia’s parent company, the Wikimedia Foundation, is accustomed to such legal threats, many of which are documented in a lengthy Wikipedia article titled “Litigation involving the Wikimedia Foundation.” In similar previous cases, the San Francisco-based nonprofit has always affirmed that it is “strongly committed to protecting the privacy of editors and users on Wikimedia projects.” To this end, its privacy policy explicitly states it collects “very little personal information” about users.

But that framing is misleading, as the information the Foundation does possess is often enough to identify individuals given other contextual details – which is exactly why plaintiffs keep asking for it. Given this vulnerability, the Indian court’s aggressive posturing toward Wikimedia personnel and broad interpretations of intermediary responsibility may prove a consequential threat to the online encyclopedia.

“Hostage-taking Laws”

The Indian government issued Information Technology (IT) Rules, 2021 in February of the same year. Observers immediately noted that these rules provide greater authority to regulate foreign social media companies and control domestic political and social expression on digital platforms.

The rules included Intermediary Guidelines requiring social platforms and other online service providers to take action against content when ordered to do so by a court or government entity, along with so-called “hostage-taking laws” compelling these companies to appoint a chief compliance officer in the country who can be legally held accountable for any violations.

The shift’s impact was felt across numerous platforms but was especially pronounced on Twitter, which had previously fought against censorship requests in Indian courts. By 2023, the Washington Post reported that Twitter (by then rebranded as X) was routinely removing posts critical of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his administration and suspending accounts belonging to journalists and BJP opponents.

In 2022, author and BJP spokesperson Tuhin A. Sinha initiated legal proceedings against the Wikimedia Foundation after his Wikipedia entry, which had existed since 2006, was suddenly deleted that March. In his petition, Sinha claimed that the deletion damaged his business and “political equity.” The complaint further stated that the deletion violated the newly adopted Information Technology Rules and relevant Wikipedia guidelines.

In a September hearing, Saket District Court judge Twinkle Wadhwa issued a summons to the Wikimedia Foundation to respond in person. Sinha penned a celebratory op-ed in response.

“[T]his is a fight against the Western deep state,” Sinha wrote. “Wikimedia’s recent malafide acts of omission and commission, whether it was my profile or any other, was agenda-driven. The objective of this fight is very clear – Wikipedia, like other intermediaries, has to respect Indian laws and conduct itself impartially as it influences perceptions, both personal and political.”

Sinha’s Wikipedia issue seemed to find resolution a month later when an editor recreated his article. The court case remains ongoing, though, as the matter of compensation is still outstanding.

ANI’s Defamation Suit

This past July, the Indian news agency Asian News International (ANI) filed a defamation suit at the Delhi High Court against the Wikimedia Foundation over an allegedly slanderous description of ANI on the online encyclopedia.

At the time of the suit, the Wikipedia entry for ANI stated that the agency “has been criticized for having served as a propaganda tool for the incumbent central government, distributing materials from a vast network of fake news websites, and misreporting events.” (The passage has been slightly reworded since then, but the critical framing remains intact.)

The Wikimedia Foundation responded with a familiar disclaimer noting that the Foundation itself “does not add, edit or determine content” and that editorial decisions are instead determined “by its global community of volunteer editors.”

ANI, in turn, argued that their attempts to revise the passage “showcasing [the] true and correct position, supported by trusted sources,” were removed by Wikipedia. “This malicious conduct of the Defendants [Wikipedia] ex-facie establishes their ulterior motives of defaming Plaintiff [ANI] by publishing false and misleading content against Plaintiff,” ANI’s plea stated.

In August, the court ordered the Foundation to disclose personal information about three volunteer editors who had restored the alleged defamatory passages to the ANI article after the news agency attempted to remove them.

The Foundation did not comply by the deadline, which ANI argued “clearly demonstrates willful disobedience of the order.” Counsel for the Wikimedia Foundation pushed back, arguing that the delay in providing details about the three editors was strictly logistical due to the Foundation’s lack of physical presence in India.

On September 5 Justice Navin Chawla agreed with ANI and sent a contempt of court notice to the Foundation.

“It is not a question of the defendant not being an entity in India,” Chawla explained. “We will close your business transactions here. We will ask the government to block Wikipedia.”

The next hearing is scheduled for October 25 and the Delhi High Court has ordered an “authorized representative” of the non-profit to be personally present.

Can Wikipedia Be Forced to Comply?

In the United States, the Wikimedia Foundation routinely faces defamation suits, most of which are either withdrawn or dismissed due to protections afforded web platforms by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

Other jurisdictions lack these protections, though, and the Foundation has lost numerous cases abroad.

In 2019, a German court ordered the Foundation to remove parts of the edit history of an article about academic Alex Waibel, as passages from an earlier version of the article were found to be defamatory.

More recently, French luxury events mogul Laurent de Gourcuff engaged in litigation with the Foundation to receive information about a user that he, in turn, wanted to sue for adding defamatory content to his French-language Wikipedia entry. The Foundation lost the case, and was ordered to provide all of its identification data about the user to de Gourcuff’s company or face a fine of 500 euros per day.

Wikipedia seems particularly vulnerable under Indian law. In 2019, the Wikimedia Foundation criticized a prior draft of the IT Rules 2021 which required content-blocking capabilities, local incorporation, and communication traceability.

“We believe that imposing traceability requirements on online communication is a serious threat to freedom of expression as it could interfere with the ability of Wikipedia contributors to freely participate in the project,” wrote Wikimedia Foundation general counsel Amanda Keton. “An important feature of Wikipedia is that the website does not track its users.”

The last claim is not entirely true, though.

The Foundation retains IP addresses for both registered and unregistered users. In addition, the Wikimedia privacy policy states that devices interacting with Wikipedia send technical data such as device and browser type, and also the “name of your internet service provider or mobile carrier, the website that referred you to the Wikimedia Sites, which pages you request and visit, and the date and time of each request you make to the Wikimedia Sites.”

It’s unclear how long this information is stored and whether it’s accessible by Wikimedia personnel or Wikipedia administrators. A 2021 Daily Dot article provided a useful overview of Wikipedia data retention guidelines and loopholes. And the inference from previous cases the Foundation has lost is that they do indeed have information about individual accounts that – if combined with other contextual details – could compromise their identity.

On September 7, an editor who had been active on the ANI article posted the following message to the talk page, where editorial discussions occur:


Hello fellow Wikipedians! As you know, an Indian court has summoned Wikipedia to disclose the identities of users involved in editing this article. I am an Indian citizen and I have the second highest share of authorship in this Wikipedia article on ANI. If my identity is revealed, I may be prosecuted in my country. Therefore, I am considering deleting all my contributions to this article. I am having severe anxiety, please advise me what I should do.

Another editor assured this user that the Wikimedia Foundation is unlikely to comply, but the message underscored the anxiety that ANI’s lawsuit has generated among some of the platform’s India-based users.

Tracking Edits

The account names of the three users (defendants 2, 3, and 4) ANI wants further details about have not been publicized, but a survey of the ANI article’s edit history shows that numerous editors have added critical claims and that ANI itself has attempted to reshape content in the past.

Early versions of the ANI article were short and offered only cursory details about the news agency. In 2018 a new account called Ani digital attempted to restructure the article to resemble an “About Us” website page, including blatantly promotional language. Other editors quickly reverted these edit attempts and administrators soon blocked the Ani digital account.

In July 2019, a new account called Indianpoliticsresearch added a nearly 200-word “Criticism” section to the article that summarized then-recent reporting in The Caravan, an Indian English-language magazine. In December 2019, a well-established editor from Kolkata made a series of edits summarizing critical reporting from The Ken, an Indian business news outlet. This version of the article noted that ANI had been accused of serving “as an effective propaganda tool of the incumbent union governments” and was “documented to be a significant purveyor of fake news.”

A year later, numerous editors updated the article to reflect a report from EU DisinfoLab detailing an influence campaign that used ANI to disseminate fabricated columns and reporting. The report received ample press coverage and these secondary sources – including BBC News, Politico, and The Diplomat – were cited alongside the original report.

Numerous new and anonymous accounts have since attempted to remove these critical passages from the article.

ANI’s plea indicates that at least some of these accounts belonged to them or were operated on their behalf. The three editors they’re looking to unmask are accounts that undid ANI’s attempted updates – or otherwise added content alleged to be defamatory – within a two-week period this past year.

ANI also alleges that Wikimedia “officials” facilitated the restoration of the defamatory content, thus negating its safe-harbor protection under Section 79(1) of the Information Technology Act. This charge likely refers to the “protection” an administrator temporarily added to the page to limit vandalism and contentious edit wars.

A Bold Bid With a Weak Hand

The claims ANI alleges to be defamatory – about government propaganda, fake news websites, and error-ridden coverage – all reflect critical reporting from legitimate news outlets. This means that the ANI article content firmly aligns with Wikipedia’s guidelines regarding verifiable citations and reliable sources.

But all ANI needs to do to win this case is convince a judge that the claims in question are indeed defamatory and that the Wikimedia Foundation – which does, after all, host the Wikipedia servers and facilitate the platform’s operation – is ultimately responsible for publishing them. In this sense, the “unmasking editors” request is ultimately a feint, if one that ANI seems willing to pursue to inflict collateral damage on the site’s Indian editor community.

Both the ANI and Tuhin A. Sinha cases explicitly reference the Intermediary Rules laid out in the Information Technology (IT) Rules, 2021. The goal of that policy framework is to make foreign social media companies responsible for executing national government and court orders. Wikipedia is not generally considered to be “social media,” but it is a collaborative platform that ranks prominently in search results and thus shapes public understanding of key topics – including political issues and sensitive news stories. Bringing the encyclopedia to heel would represent a political and regulatory victory for the BJP apparatus.

As the public battle between Elon Musk and the Brazilian judiciary carried out over the summer, there was an expectation that many of the insults (from Musk) and hardlines (from the Brazilian government) were simply posturing. Brazil was, after all, one of the largest markets for X, with tens of millions of users. Surely the two sides would reach an agreement? Alas, the issues of contention were too politically charged, especially given Musk’s outspokenness against Lula da Silva’s administration and affinities with far-right former President Jair Bolsonaro.

That same political and regulatory alignment is evident in India, and Wikipedians are already speculating on the long-term consequences.

“I would personally hate to see Wikipedia get banned in India,” an editor at an India-related noticeboard said. “India has the largest English-speaking population in the world, especially as a second or third language. A ban could affect access to a valuable source of information for millions, and it would certainly impact Wikipedia’s presence in one of the largest user bases in the world.”
 
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