JonTron Salt - feat. the growing Yooka-Laylee shitstorm (Mighty No. 9 2.0)

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I'm a little disappointed with Playtonic's decision to open Pandora's box by bringing up JonTron, considering that I forgot about him even having a cameo. I find it ridiculous to imagine that people would boycott a game over ECH ECH ECH being replaced by other generic grunts or not, but here we are.
 
I said it was for PR because it was unnecessary and they probably did it for marketing, everyone is talking about the game and will keep talking until the release next month. People who don't know about this game will spread the word of "how the devs are against racism", while the outrage will diminish over time.

But they made one critical mistake: Jon makes videos making fun of shit games.

And he's probably still going to play YL despite him being removed from it.

If YL fails to even come close to the old glories Jon and many more old school Rareware diehards want to relive, you better believe he's going to make himself clear about it.

This is especially important because the potential people who would be interested in the project because of Jontron is substantially higher than the number of professionally offended who bitched about Jontron being a Nazi. Even if only a tenth of Jontron's subscriberbase ultimately bought YL, that's hundreds of thousands of potential sales against a few thousand professionally offended who never would have bought the game to begin with.

Also this.
 
But they made one critical mistake: Jon makes videos making fun of shit games.

And he's probably still going to play YL despite him being removed from it.

If YL fails to even come close to the old glories Jon and many more old school Rareware diehards want to relive, you better believe he's going to make himself clear about it.

Do you think it would be possible for logic to win out over the fans if the game ends up being a steaming pile of crap?
 
But they made one critical mistake: Jon makes videos making fun of shit games.

And he's probably still going to play YL despite him being removed from it.

If YL fails to even come close to the old glories Jon and many more old school Rareware diehards want to relive, you better believe he's going to make himself clear about it.



Also this.

And if YL is a sucess and Jon shits on it then he will look like salty hater. These are two big IFs here.

Do you think it would be possible for logic to win out over the fans if the game ends up being a steaming pile of crap?

Gamers are an entitled crowd, one day your fandom loves and defends you but on the next they hate you and want you dead. Look what happened with MN9, No Man's Sky etc. If YL dissapoints then playtonic will automatically become the devil of the story. (but i backed the game so i hope they don't...)
 
I realize this is unrelated to the Yooka-Laylee situation going on, but is Jon still with Nicole? So far it seems to me like she's doing her best to keep her head down about this whole mess...which, if you ask me, is a pretty smart thing to do regardless of whether or not they're still together. Think about it: if she came out to defend Jon, all these re.tards would label her as a Nazi, a racist, a white supremacist, etc., etc., just like him. But if she spoke out against him, even if they broke up and she stated that his political views were the reason for it, they would still give her shit because she was/is JonTron's girlfriend. The best way to win their game is to not play at all.

I like Jon's response to his removal from the game as well. I'm glad to see he's taking it in stride.

Do you think it would be possible for logic to win out over the fans if the game ends up being a steaming pile of crap?

I'd say if the game turns out sucking Jon may be used as a scapegoat for everyone else's grief, even if his contributions amounted to little more than grunting and even those were removed.
 
I don't even like Jon but removing him from the game is pretty bullshit and even though on paper it's easy to see why they did so (I mean if I were to be a game dev and I saw some voice actor spouting some shit it will be embarassing), but if you go deep something's just not right:

We would like to make absolutely clear that we do not endorse or support JonTron's personal viewpoints and that, as an external fan contributor, he does not represent Playtonic in any capacity. Playtonic is a studio that celebrates diversity in all forms and strives to make games that everyone can enjoy.

Kinda makes me glad that I have never funded a Kickstarter. Btw according to one user, the Yooka-Laylee devs were sperging out about the elections too so it isn't surprising to him, but I would like to know more about this information.
 
And if YL is a sucess and Jon shits on it then he will look like salty hater. These are two big IFs here.

Hasn't stopped him before. He made a video arguing against Blizzard shutting down some server running the 1.0 version of WoW, on the basis that the original game was preferable to what it is now despite all the expansions and improvements.

Gamers are an entitled crowd, one day your fandom loves and defends you but on the next they hate you and want you dead. Look what happened with MN9, No Man's Sky etc. If YL dissapoints then playtonic will automatically become the devil of the story. (but i backed the game so i hope they don't...)

MN9 only had to be a decent Megaman clone. Instead it got turned into a complete shitshow that ran years past the original release date despite an AAA grade budget due to the CEO wanting to turn it into a franchise with a cartoon and shit, was routinely surpassed by lesser budget crowdfunded games that turned out WAY better - specifically Shovel Knight which has Megaman style boss fight logic - and ultimately had its fate sealed when it was revealed Dina had played a part in what led to the outbreak of Gamergate.

No Man's Sky was little better than an overhyped tech demo. Functions the game was supposed to have AT LAUNCH were never included, it silently erased the things you named because it assumed you never would try to revisit these places, the ending was a 'fuck you hard reset', and Steam had to eventually issue refunds because it judged NMS failed to live up to its promises.

YL merely needs to make a classic Rareware game. Anything more or less and they're dead in the water. And if it is exactly as promised, then Jon wouldn't make a video about it in a negative light.
 
Btw according to one user, the Yooka-Laylee devs were sperging out about the elections too so it isn't surprising to him, but I would like to know more about this information.

Wait, Playtonic is made up of ex-Rare staff, so they're (at least mostly) British, right? Why would the election be a concern to them?

For the record, people in America sperging out about Brexit are just as autistic.
 
I know it probably won't make a difference as SJW's reee loudly for what influence they have, but how much counter-reeing will there be at JT being removed from the game?
 
I know it probably won't make a difference as SJW's reee loudly for what influence they have, but how much counter-reeing will there be at JT being removed from the game?

I mean, if Jon himself doesn't see it as that big of a deal, probably not that much.

Although all the spergs probably think Playtonic defeated white supremacy once and for all by removing him and that Jon is going to cry himself to sleep because of it.
 
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On a side note, it seems there are reports of people being banned on the steam forums for this Jontron drama.
 
And if YL is a sucess and Jon shits on it then he will look like salty hater. These are two big IFs here.

I imagine from this point forward Jon will just never mention Y-L again and might just eventually delete his Banjo-Kazooie videos (as Jon is known to prune his channel for content that doesn't really fit anymore) - I might actually give those another watch before that happens.

Gamers are an entitled crowd, one day your fandom loves and defends you but on the next they hate you and want you dead. Look what happened with MN9, No Man's Sky etc. If YL dissapoints then playtonic will automatically become the devil of the story. (but i backed the game so i hope they don't...)

Yo yo yo yo hang on here

"entitled"

I know it's hip to say it, but "entitled" behavior to me is more expecting a dev team to add an extra port to a new game (which isn't just pressing a button like some expect) or when people get upset that a personal preference wasn't catered for. None of those cases were that, it's different when people have already sunk money into your project.

MN9 was just sad, during the KS their social media team was pretty good at keeping in touch with the community. Right from the get go it was implied Inafune wanted the MN9 development time to be sort of like the Megaman Legends 3 experience (only with an actual finished game at the end lol) - the community getting stuck into the game ect.

What actually happened is they hired a team-members annoying girlfriend - who had never played a megaman game - and had already rustled jimmies by drawing gender-bent Beck (because I mean hey Call doesn't exist or anything) - she was also pretty quickly claiming she was having a design input which also bugged backers. In a sense she basically just hogged what should of been for the community for herself. It just got worse from there with forums being pretty much a bloodbath of bans including banning a $300 contributor.

I mean yes, MN9's issues were deeper than Dina in the end. They promised too many versions of the game, the designs kind of sucked. The game almost actively punishes you for trying to play it like Megaman. Plus the final boss is a multicolor mess slap in the face. But Dina really didn't help things. When she left Comcept it was apparently a fairly mute event that really said it all about how team felt about her.

No Mans Sky was a bit more a case of bullshots and bull-footage of stuff you can't deliver being a bad idea. The preview videos promised an experience the actual game doesn't really have. Like there's a few cool moments landing on an interesting planet and finding a cool interesting creature combo. But then you realize the landscape doesn't change much, the animals all have pretty simple AI, and the story quest is a really boring fetch quest affair. It certainly doesn't feel like an AAA price title. The devs couldn't be man enough to admit they over-promised and basically dived into a hole for months. There's been a few updates since but it's obviously never going to be the thing it was overhyped to be.

I know it probably won't make a difference as SJW's reee loudly for what influence they have, but how much counter-reeing will there be at JT being removed from the game?


The kickstarter comments are a nightmare with quite a few backers asking for refunds.

The Steam forums are even worse. People have been posting on how to get a chargeback on credit cards (which lets you forcibly get your KS refund, this is how many MN9 backers took their money back after Comcept refused to do it) and there's about 3-4 pages of threads with people expressing upset. Others (who didn't back) - are posting their steam refund receipts.
 
The kickstarter comments are a nightmare with quite a few backers asking for refunds.

The Steam forums are even worse. People have been posting on how to get a chargeback on credit cards (which lets you forcibly get your KS refund, this is how many MN9 backers took their money back after Comcept refused to do it) and there's about 3-4 pages of threads with people expressing upset. Others (who didn't back) - are posting their steam refund receipts.
See, this is what happens when you try to appeal to people who aren't even a part of your audience; you end up pissing off the people who actually do care about your product.

Hell, in this case it's even worse since now they're pissing off the very people funding their game. By trying to appease the SJW crowd they're essentially shooting themselves in the foot.
 
See, this is what happens when you try to appeal to people who aren't even a part of your audience; you end up pissing off the people who actually do care about your product.

Hell, in this case it's even worse since now they're pissing off the very people funding their game. By trying to appease the SJW crowd they're essentially shooting themselves in the foot.
Ironic how their attempt to quell potential controversy resulted in an even larger controversy that's costing them money.

Maybe they should've thought about the long term consequences of appeasing perpetual whiners at their fan's expense.
 
I don't even like Jon but removing him from the game is pretty bullshit and even though on paper it's easy to see why they did so (I mean if I were to be a game dev and I saw some voice actor spouting some shit it will be embarassing), but if you go deep something's just not right:

We would like to make absolutely clear that we do not endorse or support JonTron's personal viewpoints and that, as an external fan contributor, he does not represent Playtonic in any capacity. Playtonic is a studio that celebrates diversity in all forms and strives to make games that everyone can enjoy.

Kinda makes me glad that I have never funded a Kickstarter. Btw according to one user, the Yooka-Laylee devs were sperging out about the elections too so it isn't surprising to him, but I would like to know more about this information.

I've only backed a handful of Kickstarters over the years, and have yet to be let down.
It's not dangerous, you just gotta do your homework. It sucks that the onus is on the backer, though.

Right now, though, the comments are a fucking bloodbath, and the backers are revolting.

Gamers are an entitled crowd, one day your fandom loves and defends you but on the next they hate you and want you dead. Look what happened with MN9, No Man's Sky etc. If YL dissapoints then playtonic will automatically become the devil of the story. (but i backed the game so i hope they don't...)

I need to make very clear why this is such an issue for everyone, because it goes well beyond mere Social Justice tomfoolery and a NeoGAF witch-hunt campaign.

In the immediate term, backing away from Jontron probably seemed like the best strategy for Playtonic - and Jontron himself certainly didn't want them to fail over it. Jon's a gigantic Banjo-Kazooie fan; why the fuck would he want it to fail? On balance, however, their choosing to ditch Jontron was the worst possible thing they could have fucking done.

By choosing to ditch Jontron in favor of the shrieking lynchmob on Twitter, consumer confidence has been completely undermined. Appeasing the vocal whackjobs like this means that the devs were willing to compromise their game in various ways for the sake of political expediency, and that, as we say, is a fucking death sentence. The second you make clear that you're willing to undermine your own project for the sake of getting heat off you - a project that the fans fucking are paying you to make, lest this not be sinking in - you've made it clear that you're more worried about the professionally offended than you are about your customers. You've done the Social Media equivalent of negotiating with terrorists. There is no quicker way to completely piss off your fucking consumers.

Over the last five years, we've seen this sort of outrage pout-fest used with devastating effect against various game developers. The outrage doesn't even have to be over something legitimate, as we saw during the Andrea Ritsu thread; it just has to be volatile enough that the professionally offended brigade can get a foot in the door, and then this can be used as the first step towards undermining yet more of the game down the line. Literally no game worth its salt that has gotten toned down because of these loons has emerged better for it when the dust settles, and we've seen that over and over.
 
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It's a shame Jon's work was removed from the game. Was it a Kickstarter stretch goal or just something he did because he was a fan?
 
Amusingly the KS comments have now gone from "I'm angry and want a refund please" to people having essay battles on the issue of mass immigration and related issues.
 
It's a shame Jon's work was removed from the game. Was it a Kickstarter stretch goal or just something he did because he was a fan?
I heard that Playtonic approached him because he personally knew Grant Kirkhope.

As far as I know, money wasn't involved, so this isn't a case where a stretch goal was suddenly taken away.
 
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