John McCain Dead - Literally A-Logging a dead man for upboats

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Hanoi Johnie The Songbird Of Forrestal Is Dead. Press F Or Dont.

https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-dead-at-81-2017-12

Republican Sen. John McCain, an internationally renowned Vietnam War hero who served for 30 years in the Senate representing Arizona, died Saturday due to complications stemming from brain cancer.

His office said in a statement that his wife Cindy McCain and their family were alongside him when he died.

"At his death, he had served the United States of America faithfully for sixty years," his office said.

McCain, 81, was a part of many of the past three decades' most significant political moments. He was the 2008 Republican presidential nominee in a contest he lost to President Barack Obama. He also sought the presidency in 2000, mounting a primary campaign against President George W. Bush.

A graduate of the Naval Academy, the Arizona Republican followed both his father and grandfather, who were four-star admirals, into the US Navy, where he carried out airstrike missions.
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also for those of you who dont know what he did in 'nam that made him so damn infamous well here you go.

 
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As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
— Ezekiel 33:11

It sure is hard for us not too, though

One can only respect him as a man with a sort of warrior nobility, and one who went through a lot of suffering for his country, but in terms of his impact on policy both foreign and domestic, he was, in fact, a desperately wicked man.

—

Speculation has it his wife Cindy may succeed him, although it's the kind of speculation that often turns out to be bogus. If so expect a lot of sentimentalism mixed in with neocon whisperings in her ear that come out of her mouth in votes.
 
Jigaboo Jones said:
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
— Ezekiel 33:11

It sure is hard for us not too, though

One can only respect him as a man with a sort of warrior nobility, and one who went through a lot of suffering for his country, but in terms of his impact on policy both foreign and domestic, he was, in fact, a desperately wicked man.
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He created this outpouring of relief at his passing for everyone who hated his hawkish war drumming. No one made him cling to that senate seat all the way to grave. He isn't a fucking Supreme Court Justice or Pope, and even they will retire. When the only way a shitty politician is going to leave office is when that office has to get pried out of their cold dead hands, that's on fucking them.

Also being a war hero isn't a moral absolution. For a guy who apparently went through soo much in war that it's absolved all his future actions, he sure was fine with and adamant about sending other Americans out into even more useless and pointless endeavors. At that point he starts to become worse to me than the ignorant chickenhawks who never did or will serve because they are ignorant of how bad they can get. This guy? He apparently knew and still wanted to push for as many Americans as he could to go through that. I just can't respect that at all.

Jigaboo Jones said:
Speculation has it his wife Cindy may succeed him, although it's the kind of speculation that often turns out to be bogus. If so expect a lot of sentimentalism mixed in with neocon whisperings in her ear that come out of her mouth in votes.
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Fucking how? It's a senate seat, not a title of nobility.
 
Marchesa_ofthe_Vast said:
Also being a war hero isn't a moral absolution. For a guy who apparently went through soo much in war that it's absolved all his future actions, he sure was fine with and adamant about sending other Americans out into even more useless and pointless endeavors. At that point he starts to become worse to me than the ignorant chickenhawks who never did or will serve because they are ignorant of how bad they can get. This guy? He apparently knew and still wanted to push for as many Americans as he could to go through that. I just can't respect that at all.
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That is definitely a point that I've pondered, but I think he's coming from the same mindset that a lot of WWI vets had in Germany. Before anyone gets worked up I am in no way trying to bring Hitler into this, I'm talking way pre-'33, but I mean, that they lost the war, they felt this tremendous sense of warrior-nobility, coupled with a sense of deep disgrace that they dare not even name, and wanted to pass it on to their kids. [edit to clarify: as pointed out below, the scenarios in 1920's Germany and 1970's/80's America were in no way analagous, I'm talking about internal psychology here ...] A few scenes from Babylon Berlin (excellent German TV series; on Netflix) come to mind.

Fucking how? It's a senate seat, not a title of nobility.
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The governor gets to appoint his successor through 2020. And Cindy is, apparently, in the running. It's been considered in poor taste to discuss it, and the Gov Ducey very publicly and savagely went one particular guy who tried to place himself in the running, but a bunch of sources (no doubt many of them being travel balloons floated by Ducey's people) are speculating that it might be the widow. You know, like if Cher were to have been appointed to the House, except she didn't, and Cindy McCain isn't a pop star. Although considerably more attractive than Cher TBH.
 
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Never saw a war he didn't like.
Literal war profiteer.
Encouraged Obama's IRS to go after independent conservative groups while posing as a "maverick" who was "outside the establishment".
Campaigned to end Obamacare for almost a decade and was then the one to save it.

S
 
"I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . "
— John Sidney McCain III

Mugshots-EMGN17.jpg
 
McCain was a nasty person, a warhawk, embroiled in as much double-sided identity politics and corruption as the democrats, and tied up his congressional seat until the very end instead of relinquishing it when it became clear he couldnt work, in addition to helping fuel the trump hysteria. Cant say I'll miss him.

All that said, Brain Cancer is a sucky way to go. Nobody deserves that. RiP to him, hopefully he didnt suffer too much.

It's also sickening how many people on social media on both sides are celebrating his death with an almost gleeful tone. Goes to show people really havent changed much since the ancient roman days of watching people be brutally murdered by wild animals for fun.

Marchesa_ofthe_Vast said:
He created this outpouring of relief at his passing for everyone who hated his hawkish war drumming. No one made him cling to that senate seat all the way to grave. He isn't a fucking Supreme Court Justice or Pope, and even they will retire. When the only way a shitty politician is going to leave office is when that office has to get pried out of their cold dead hands, that's on fucking them.

Also being a war hero isn't a moral absolution. For a guy who apparently went through soo much in war that it's absolved all his future actions, he sure was fine with and adamant about sending other Americans out into even more useless and pointless endeavors. At that point he starts to become worse to me than the ignorant chickenhawks who never did or will serve because they are ignorant of how bad they can get. This guy? He apparently knew and still wanted to push for as many Americans as he could to go through that. I just can't respect that at all.


Fucking how? It's a senate seat, not a title of nobility.
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There was a commenter somewhere (perhaps reddit, so take with salt) that watched for her brother coming off of the plane of Vietnam PoWs, and remembered McCain looked a lot healthier and less disturbed then the others. His treatment as a PoW has long been suspect by a lot of people, and his willingness to go to war despite seeing Vietnam didnt settle well with many vets.
 
Jigaboo Jones said:
That is definitely a point that I've pondered, but I think he's coming from the same mindset that a lot of WWI vets had in Germany. Before anyone gets worked up I am in no way trying to bring Hitler into this, I'm talking way pre-'33, but I mean, that they lost the war, they felt this tremendous sense of warrior-nobility, coupled with a sense of deep disgrace that they dare not even name, and wanted to pass it on to their kids. A few scenes from Babylon Berlin (excellent German TV series; on Netflix) come to mind.
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The difference I would point out is that when those WW1 German vets came home, they came home to a country that lost hundreds of thousands of civilians to famine from blockade and an economy gutted and humiliated with conditions reminiscent of present Venezuela. There was nothing to go back home to but a festering wreck. All this despite the enemy never stepping foot on German territory. There was an insurmountable difference in condition between America at home during and post-vietnam compared with post-WW1 Germany. Germany got heaped with much more than a black eye to national pride. I'd wager that the closest superpower to experience that was the USSR after Afghanistan that literally fell apart from the expenses. I cannot agree to that assertion at all. If it has any inkling of truth that only means he was unfit for any kind of leadership, unable to divorce reality from personal pride.
 
Marchesa_ofthe_Vast said:
The difference I would point out is that when those WW1 German vets came home, they came home to a country that lost hundreds of thousands of civilians to famine from blockade and an economy gutted and humiliated with conditions reminiscent of present Venezuela. There was nothing to go back home to but a festering wreck. All this despite the enemy never stepping foot on German territory. There was an insurmountable difference in condition between America at home during and post-vietnam compared with post-WW1 Germany. Germany got heaped with much more than a black eye to national pride. I'd wager that the closest superpower to experience that was the USSR after Afghanistan that literally fell apart from the expenses. I cannot agree to that assertion at all. If it has any inkling of truth that only means he was unfit for any kind of leadership, unable to divorce reality from personal pride.
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You're absolutely correct here and the bold part is sort of what I was getting at.
 
Jigaboo Jones said:
You're absolutely correct here and the bold part is sort of what I was getting at.
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Sorry I didn't read that clearly enough then, I just get annoyed when someone brings up "warrior-nobility" when it comes to modern war profiteering. It's like seeing red.
 
Marchesa_ofthe_Vast said:
Sorry I didn't read that clearly enough then, I just get annoyed when someone brings up "warrior-nobility" when it comes to modern war profiteering. It's like seeing red.
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I wasn't particularly clear ... but yeah, I'm talking internal psychology. And McCain's "warrior-nobility" is perhaps more of an image, although resisting interrogation by any measure definitely is worthy of some kind of respect. In terms of his foreign policy, shit, fuck no.

And psychologically the whole thing makes even more sense when you think that he actually didn't do a whole lot of fighting, and a lot more of "being captured" ... which is actually in some way what I think Trump was trying to get at in that infamous comment, not that McCain wasn't a hero because he got shot down, but that his resistance to his torturers (which may or may not be up for more debate than the lionizing of the media, I don't really know and we probably never will absent some kind of declassified and reliable documents from the NVA which isn't going to happen) is a different kind of thing, even if it is a different kind of "heroism" than is being a "war hero" as conventionally thought of.

People also tend to forget that he was up in the sky dropping fire on people rather than fighting in the jungle, which is the more typical image of the Vietnam war hero. (My uncle was there shooting people and slitting throats, he'd probably slit your throat if you called him a hero though.) Which again makes sense thinking about McCain's particular mindset when it comes to future wars and [particularly] post-Cold War foreign policy. Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran indeed.
 
I have seen a lot of exceptionalism here re: McCain breaking. Everybody breaks.
:powerlevel: incoming: Having been throuh some related training, you are expected to break. You hold on long enough to let your side refit things and tell some lies that will do some damage. That is the goal.

I don't care that McCain broke. It was a good psyop from the zips. I care that he doesn't represent the people he was supposed to.
 
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Jigaboo Jones said:
I wasn't particularly clear ... but yeah, I'm talking internal psychology. And McCain's "warrior-nobility" is perhaps more of an image, although resisting interrogation by any measure definitely is worthy of some kind of respect. In terms of his foreign policy, shit, fuck no.

And psychologically the whole thing makes even more sense when you think that he actually didn't do a whole lot of fighting, and a lot more of "being captured" ... which is actually in some way what I think Trump was trying to get at in that infamous comment, not that McCain wasn't a hero because he got shot down, but that his resistance to his torturers (which may or may not be up for more debate than the lionizing of the media, I don't really know and we probably never will absent some kind of declassified and reliable documents from the NVA which isn't going to happen) is a different kind of thing, even if it is a different kind of "heroism" than is being a "war hero" as conventionally thought of.

People also tend to forget that he was up in the sky dropping fire on people rather than fighting in the jungle, which is the more typical image of the Vietnam war hero. (My uncle was there shooting people and slitting throats, he'd probably slit your throat if you called him a hero though.) Which again makes sense thinking about McCain's particular mindset when it comes to future wars and [particularly] post-Cold War foreign policy. Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran indeed.
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You know that's something I hadn't consciously realized. He basically didn't fight in Vietnam. All he really did on the ground was get captured.
 
Koby_Fish said:
That wasn't even Palin that said "I can see Russia from my house," that was SNL actress Tina Fey in a Saturday Night Live skit.
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What she actually said in regards to Russia was:

They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska
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The leftist used the misquote to bash on Palin, and I was just restating and showing that what she said is true.

 
ChuckSlaughter said:
I didn't always like his politics but compared to the rest of washington he's a net gain for the good guys. All you Rs shitting on him remind me of BLM interrupting bernie sanders for not being woke enough.
3 weeks ago McCain could have still kicked your asses.
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Honestly, without all the forever war agitating and #nevertrump faggotry he got up to in his last couple years, I wouldn't have a yuge problem with him. I can't really begrudge him for losing in '08, since people were tired of bush's antics and a dem win was pretty much inevitable. Could also care less about his service record (I'd like to see how all the keyboard warriors here would hold up under VC torture). Up until recently, I would've counted him among the good guys too, albeit with some positions I disagree on.

However, he cucked the fuck out in 2016 and has actively impeded MAGA ever since. Every time Trump said or did something, he found a reason to shit on it, even as tons of his establishment friends saw the light. Guy was basically controlled opposition, more interested in getting kudos from liberal rags than helping his party accomplish anything.

I don't hate him enough to revel in his death, but he's not getting my :1: anytime soon.
 
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