🐮 Lolcow Jack David Sickenberger / The Cunning Condor - Prudish, Nosy, and Pretentious Cartoonist who Hates WHORES and makes REAL ART

[Locksnap]

Just to briefly interject, despite us taking issue with your stances we do appreciate your civility.

 

[The Cunning Condor]

I just want to clear up one thing. I fear my not great English made me unclear on this, so I am sorry Connor.
By 3-d I did not mean realistic, I mean existing in deep space. Even very stylised work can look either flat or like in deep space.

I know that many do not like the way Burne Hogarth stylises the human body but I still feel his book which is titled Dynamic Figure Drawing is a very good book to teach the concept of drawing with depth of canvas.

The image posted here of the man and tree shows to me that your Unterbau is flat, and also that you are thinking in 2-d Shapes not 3-d Shapes whether you conscioulsy realise you are breaking things down that way or not.
This is not a matter of this being a Sketch instead of finished work, it is a deficiency of renderer skill. Even what are quick bunches of sketches known as thumbnail sketches or gesture sketches can shows depth of canvas, line weighting, etc etc.

To have your own voice in your art is a very good thing, I am glad you want to express yourself your way, but your drawings are limited now by your desire to not work on construction.

I was afraid you were caught up in your mind on this subject, and I see you are. This is disappointing; but I think there will come a time you realise the deficiency you have and will want to work on it.

Okay, take care.
Good luck with furture artworks.

I prefer to work with 2D shapes. I have nothing against 3D shapes. It's just my preference.

My art just like anyone elses is flawed. I'm constantly improving and I can only get up from here. I'm still quite young. I have plenty of time to level up.

Why shouldn't I? It's art, isn't it? Quite frankly your views towards women, are quite regressive. You've got that Madonna/Whore complex going on real bad. You think you're shielding Madonnas while throwing the Whores under the bus. The Whores go with the big beefy guys, the Whores present their hindquarters like an animal in heat and are rightly punished for it. That is what I get from your comics.

You got some hang-ups about sex, bruh. As a woman, and as somebody who's drawn pornographic artwork, I find those stances patronizing and worrying.

My visons towards people, much like people, is varied. There are good people, there are bad people. There are smart people, there are dumb people. They all vary. Gender doesn't matter, nor does race, religion, etc. People are incredible varied.

The NP comics sort take place in a more fucked up society where logic seems to be thrown away in order to make way fro glitz and glamour.

I suppose one way to look at it is that it expresses the chaos by exaggerating social blunders to some extent. Really though, it's a just a silly comic with silly characters. Just because this one particular character is a whore-like character doesn't mean I believe everyone is like that. It's just this one.

Having one character be styled this way (and made fun of for it) doesn't mean that I see all people like that. She's just a representation of one example of stupidity amongst people.

Plus it wouldn't make much sense that I'd be belittling women. I'm not a masochist. :/

Just to briefly interject, despite us taking issue with your stances we do appreciate your civility.

Thanks. My arm is killing me.

 

[Meowthkip]

My visons towards people, much like people, is varied. There are good people, there are bad people. There are smart people, there are dumb people. They all vary. Gender doesn't matter, nor does race, religion, etc. People are incredible varied.

The NP comics sort take place in a more fucked up society where logic seems to be thrown away in order to make way fro glitz and glamour.

I suppose one way to look at it is that it expresses the chaos by exaggerating social blunders to some extent. Really though, it's a just a silly comic with silly characters. Just because this one particular character is a whore-like character doesn't mean I believe everyone is like that. It's just this one.

You're dodging my point.

You drew a comic with a female character acting slutty and she was punished for it with physical violence.

You might not believe that all women are like that, or even most women, but the implications are troubling.

 

[The Cunning Condor]

You're dodging my point.

You drew a comic with a female character acting slutty and she was punished for it with physical violence.

You might not believe that all women are like that, or even most women, but the implications are troubling.

She was kicked in the rear. Not burned alive.

We aren't going off about Tom and Jerry encouraging animal cruelty.

Plus, one way to look at it was that the message was misunderstood by the male character.

Why are we overanalyzing a silly harmless comic?

 

[TM Ambrose]

I'm not a feminazi. Just because I believe in women's rights (which is a given) doesn't mean I'm not allowed to poke fun at the particular women who actually do fit into the stereotype. They do exist.

Connor I still don't think you understand me

I never said you were. I still feel your trying to force a message that isn't really deep. It gives the illusion of being deep but is really just a cheap pop (lol wrestling term) at an established stereotype... Most of the other NP stuff is like that as well. You're not as bad as Preston but it's still pretty up it's own ass. Nothing wrong with pretention but it puts a bad taste in most peoples mouth.

 

[Springer]

I prefer to work with 2D shapes. I have nothing against 3D shapes. It's just my preference.

My art just like anyone elses is flawed. I'm constantly improving and I can only get up from here. I'm still quite young. I have plenty of time to level up.

Sorry, Condor not Connor. Entschuldigun!!

I don't think you understand 3-d shapes versus 2-d shapes and what it really means for deep canvas and drawing.
I am not sure how else I can explain. Please consider researching some deep canvas/dynamic drawing, maybe you'll see what I mean.
It is not a choice in drawing to choose one(3d versus 2d) over the other, it is not like medium or style which is very much a choice, this is a dear part of drawing technique. Even in silhouette, which might be most "2-dish of all" Style you are working with 3-d canvas in mind.

I enjoy cartoon styles very much, I like your style of cartooning but I am just sad to see the limit you placed on yourself and the way that makes some things glaringly beginning looking. When your art is meaningful to you, it worth making the effort of taking a step outside your comfort Zone to work and see your endevours a new way. I think then you will have a Eureka moment and make a great leap ahead in your work.

I think that's all I can say. I cannot order you to do this or that, only suggest from strong knowing what I am sure could help you as an artist.

 

[DirtbagDeluxe]

I'm more interested in what the viewer thinks.

In this moment, we are your viewers, and telling you your art is really not that good and has sexist overtones. You can keep on disagreeing and waxing philosophical about it, but...what was the phrase you used? Right: putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[The Cunning Condor]

I never said you were. I still feel your trying to force a message that isn't really deep. It gives the illusion of being deep but is really just a cheap pop (lol wrestling term) at an established stereotype... Most of the other NP stuff is like that as well. You're not as bad as Preston but it's still pretty up it's own ass. Nothing wrong with pretention but it puts a bad taste in most peoples mouth.

To be fair, the NP comics aren't exactly meant to be cuddly. The ideas I have in store are not necessarily "offensive", but they are unforgiving in some aspects. Some brutally honest and whatnot.

I feel we should save this debate for when more are released as time goes by.

 

[Meowthkip]

She was kicked in the rear. Not burned alive.

We aren't going off about Tom and Jerry encouraging animal cruelty.

That's not what I mean. You're not literally advocating violence against women with your comic, but you are expressing the viewpoint that slutty women are worthy or scorn and derision.

Your comic shows a woman being flirty and she is punished for it and implied to be "lesser."

 

[Treblinkachu]

You're dodging my point.

You drew a comic with a female character acting slutty and she was punished for it with physical violence.

You might not believe that all women are like that, or even most women, but the implications are troubling.

I have to agree with Condor on this one, Meowthkip. It seems like it was just a stupid autistic joke where the guy thought she was asking for physical punishment or something retarded like that. Unfunny, but not really worthy of deeper discussion. There's plenty more to focus on, though.

 

[The Cunning Condor]

Sorry, Condor not Connor. Entschuldigun!!

I don't think you understand 3-d shapes versus 2-d shapes and what it really means for deep canvas and drawing.
I am not sure how else I can explain. Please consider researching some deep canvas/dynamic drawing, maybe you'll see what I mean.
It is not a choice in art to choose one over the other, it is not like medium or style, it is a part of drawing technique. Even in silhouette, which might be most "2-dish of all" Style you are working with 3-d canvas in mind.

I enjoy cartoon styles very much, I like your style of cartooning but I am just sad to see the limit you placed on yourself and the way that makes some things glaringly beginning looking. When your art is meaningful to you, it worth making the effort of taking a step outside your comfort Zone to work and see your endevours a new way. I think then you will have a Eureka moment and make a great leap ahead in your work.

I think that's all I can say. I cannot order you to do this or that, only suggest from strong knowing what I am sure could help you as an artist.

I do, i just choose to work with 2D, because that's what I feel cooperates with my style best.

I feel like I'm being asked to make my art "pop out" on the page. Again, I'm not trying to grab people's attention. I'm just making cartoons. I don't need to make them all doughy eyed and "pretty" in order for them to be good.

Art is subjective. (then in came the bombs)

That's not what I mean. You're not literally advocating violence against women with your comic, but you are expressing the viewpoint that slutty women are worthy or scorn and derision.

Your comic shows a woman being flirty and she is punished for it and implied to be "lesser."

Forgive me for this, but you sound a little overthinky and worry warty here.

I do personally have a disdain for whores. People who sell out their bodies and have little to no self respect doesn't give me much of a push to do the respecting for them.

One way to look at this comic is that it's simply making fun of the buffoonery of the male character in his misunderstanding, but again, we're overanalyzing a silly comic.

 

[Meowthkip]

I have to agree with Condor on this one, Meowthkip. It seems like it was just a stupid autistic joke where the guy thought she was asking for physical punishment or something retarded like that. Unfunny, but not really worthy of deeper discussion. There's plenty more to focus on, though.

I disagree. Combined with his views towards porn and his pride in not exploiting women or seeing them as objects, I think this is worth exploring.

I find this dissonance interesting and wish to delve deeper.

 

[Bucharest]

I'm fully aware of the traditional drawing methods, but they never appealed to me, nor did they cooperate with my particular art style. So I went with what was compatible. Also, I (as an individual) am not trying to make my art look realistic or 3D. I want it to look like a drawing. I know HOW to make a character look 3Dish but I choose not to. It's just my preference. Plus, art is more than making a pretty picture.

While I do try to find alternate shading methods, I prefer to focus more on the basic structure of what I'm making rather than focus on making the character look "real". When I do shade, I do use different color tones. I just don't shade heavily is all.

Also, I do everything I can to be self aware. It's not really an ego I have as much as optimism and self-confidence.

Art is subjective. (then in came the bombs)

Spoken like every freshman art major at their first group critique.

 

[The Cunning Condor]

I disagree. Combined with his views towards porn and his pride in not exploiting women or seeing them as objects, I think this is worth exploring.

I find this dissonance interesting and wish to delve deeper.

His?

Anyway, I did make fun of slutty behavior in that comic, but I am not telling people to go out and beat up every prostitute they see.

Spoken like every freshman art major at their first group critique.

I didnt wanna say that last bit, but I felt eh.

 

[Treblinkachu]

Forgive me for this, but you sound a little overthinky and worry warty here.

I do personally have a disdain for whores. People who sell out their bodies and have little to no self respect doesn't give me much of a push to do the respecting for them.

One way to look at this comic is that it's simply making fun of the buffoonery of the male character in his misunderstanding, but again, we're overanalyzing a silly comic.

Yeah, see, the comic isn't an issue, but your attitude is still retarded. What counts as a whore to you? I've had sex with a lot of guys, so do you suddenly not respect me despite the fact that I've been nothing but helpful to you?

Can I please reiterate that while I don't have Autsim, it does offend me to see Autism used as an insult?

Yes you can reiterate that.

 

[The Cunning Condor]

Yeah, see, the comic isn't an issue, but your attitude is still retarded. What counts as a whore to you? I've had sex with a lot of guys, so do you suddenly not respect me despite the fact that I've been nothing but helpful to you?

A whore is someone who willingly objectifies themselves sexually and thus they tend to have low self respect. Just because a woman has had sex a lot doesn't make them a whore. It's the methods of how they go about doing so.

 

[Treblinkachu]

A whore is someone who willingly objectifies themselves sexually and thus they tend to have low self respect. Just because a woman has had sex a lot doesn't make them a whore. It's the methods of how they go about doing so.

What methods are we talking here?

 

[Meowthkip]

Forgive me for this, but you sound a little overthinky and worry warty here.

I do personally have a disdain for whores. People who sell out their bodies and have little to no self respect doesn't give me much of a push to do the respecting for them.

One way to look at this comic is that it's simply making fun of the buffoonery of the male character in his misunderstanding, but again, we're overanalyzing a silly comic.

In art, you're allowed to over-analyze. But now we're getting somewhere.

Why is it any of your business what these women do with their bodies? Why do you care enough to hate them? Live and let live. They do their thing, you do you.

His?

Oh, are you not a dude?

 

[The Cunning Condor]

What methods are we talking here?

What do you usually consider a whore?

 

[Treblinkachu]

What do you usually consider a whore?

This thread is about you, not me. Do please describe the methods of what you consider a whore.