Islam

[Emperor Julian]

I dunno. I think there is a difference between thinking that the ideal human is a virgin who gives the sermon on the mount, and thinking that the ideal human is a genocidal merchant warlord with 13 wives.

From a christian perspective the sermon of the mount guy is the same guy as the crazy violent bugger of the old testiment who blows up cities for homo's and send bears to eat kids for bald jokes and if he isnt then the bible is bollocks and christianity is irrelivant.

 

[Lackadaisy]

If you goyim just all became Jews, there wouldn't be a problem imo

 

[Emperor Julian]

If you goyim just all became Jews, there wouldn't be a problem imo

I must admit my knowledgue of judaism is a bit crap compared to more prolific religions, what's the actual differance between the Torah and the old testiment aside from the presumption angels spoke like 16th century english people?

 

[Lackadaisy]

I must admit my knowledgue of judaism is a bit crap compared to more prolific religions, what's the actual differance between the Torah and the old testiment aside the presumption angels spoke like 16th century english people?

The Torah is just the five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) and the writings of the prophets. It's pretty similar to the Old Testament text in that regard. However, it is accompanied by a transcription of the "Oral Torah" that explains the Torah as well as rabbinical writings on that, making up the Talmud.

 

[MG 192]

I have a Qu'ran from Oxford University Press translated by M. A. S. Abdel Haleem (a revised first edition). Notably, it replaces "Allah" with "God" and this translation defines Islam as "devotion to Him alone".

Is this a good translation? I am reading through the Qu'ran (and eventually the Hadith and Sira) to gain a better understanding of Islam in order to write a public critique of it later.

 

[Emperor Julian]

As I recall Allah is contructed from al (the) and Lah (deity/god) it carries an implicit statement of Monotheism. Most words fom God where cobbled of older Pagan traditions so it's likely Allah was a statement about God's nature and singularity to articulate an idea.

 

[MG 192]

As I recall Allah is contructed from al (the) and Lah (deity/god) it carries an implicit statement of Monotheism. Most words fom God where cobbled of older Pagan traditions so it's likely Allah was a statement about God's nature and singularity to articulate an idea.

I believe that Allah was originally a Moon god that Muhammad worshipped before he decided to spread the religion, claiming it was Yahweh (Judeo-Christian God)'s final message to the world.

I should note that Mecca, the Muslim holy site, was once a highly polytheistic place.

 

[Emperor Julian]

I believe that Allah was originally a Moon god that Muhammad worshipped before he decided to spread the religion, claiming it was Yahweh (Judeo-Christian God)'s final message to the world.

I should note that Mecca, the Muslim holy site, was once a highly polytheistic place.

The moon god theory was more or less made up by american evangelicals in the 90's (popularized by jack "HAWHAW" chick) based on some earlier writtings, the actual names for the moon god where Sîn and hubal, on a practical level Allah seems to be have been used prior to Islam in some contexts much like the words God and Deus.
Muhammids early life is difficult to trace but he seems to have been sympathetic to christinity/abrahamic montheism and had been heavily exposed to it. it's pretty unlikely he decided to simply stick to one god but still be pagan as that would make zero sense in terms of religious framework.

Mecca is however a former pagan site.

 

[Ntwadumela]

I believe that Allah was originally a Moon god that Muhammad worshipped before he decided to spread the religion, claiming it was Yahweh (Judeo-Christian God)'s final message to the world.

I should note that Mecca, the Muslim holy site, was once a highly polytheistic place.

Allah is in fact the same God worshipped in Judaism and Christianity.
Otherwise you're right, Mecca used to be a center of Polytheism.

 

[HG 400]

I believe that Allah was originally a Moon god that Muhammad worshipped before he decided to spread the religion, claiming it was Yahweh (Judeo-Christian God)'s final message to the world.

I should note that Mecca, the Muslim holy site, was once a highly polytheistic place.

Mohammad was originally a Hanifist, which was kind of bastardised jew/christian syncretic mix that historians know very little about. He was definitely a monotheist though, and he worshipped the same god before and after he was seen as a prophet.

The 'moon god' thing is a bizarre fringe theory that American Christian evangelicals randomly invented in the 1990's. It has no historical basis or credibility.

 

[Assorted Nuts]

The moon god thing is bunk, but it does give me a chance to post this.

 

[Broseph Stalin]

Somebody say Moon God?

 

[AtrociousVirgin]

Islam is nothing less than authoritarian regime where you're restricted to certain beliefs so much so that it leads to what to eat and what to wear. All duly corrupted by a baseless book.

 

[Banditotron]

They make the chicks cover up and they throw all the homo dudes offa buildings. No thanks.

 

[Unyielding Stupidity]

I guarantee that if Muhammad was slightly less successful, he'd just be noted down as a notable warlord, akin to Attila the Hun, and Islam would be viewed in the same way that Attila's faith and that of other warlords are viewed today. It's only because Muhammad and his early descendants were successful enough to seize most of Mesopotamia, Egypt and Persia (Thanks to the Byzantines and the Sasanians both heavily weakening themselves in a borderline-pointless war a few years before Muhammad's rise) that they were able to get enough of a foothold to make Islam a major religion, considering Islam mostly spread by conquest throughout it's 1400 year history.

 

[Unyielding Stupidity]

Sorry to doublepost, but I feel like clarifying something regarding a couple earlier user's post:

The problem is that Islam has never had a reformation like most other religions. For over a millennia and a half, there has been no change to the Quran at all, no Martin Luther figure, or reconstruction/renaissance of Islamic faith. It has, quite literally, gone unchanged, and enforces a stone-age society in the modern age.

A reformation in Islam is impossible. The Quran is considered to be the revelations of Allah, and to try and change it would be blasphemy of the highest order. Likewise, the Hadiths can't really be changed either without heavy blasphemy, due to containing the words and actions of the prophet Muhammad. And as we all know, Muslims take very well to blasphemy, especially blasphemy from fellow Muslims. Any Muslim that attempted to truely reform Islam would be beheaded before you could say "inshallah".

The best you can do is try and reinterpret certain passages to try and get a different meaning, but there are many, many passages that are just flat-out incompatible with secularism and other semi-modern ideas, regardless of how much you try and reinterpret it.

I dunno. I think there is a difference between thinking that the ideal human is a virgin who gives the sermon on the mount, and thinking that the ideal human is a genocidal merchant warlord with 13 wives.

When your prophet (who is considered the perfect example of what your religion's believers should be) is a warmongering pedophile, there might be something just a tad wrong with the foundation your religion is built on.

 

[Cosmos]

A reformation in Islam is impossible. The Quran is considered to be the revelations of Allah, and to try and change it would be blasphemy of the highest order. Likewise, the Hadiths can't really be changed either without heavy blasphemy, due to containing the words and actions of the prophet Muhammad. And as we all know, Muslims take very well to blasphemy, especially blasphemy from fellow Muslims. Any Muslim that attempted to truely reform Islam would be beheaded before you could say "inshallah".

The best you can do is try and reinterpret certain passages to try and get a different meaning, but there are many, many passages that are just flat-out incompatible with secularism and other semi-modern ideas, regardless of how much you try and reinterpret it.

Yeah, the Bible is considered divinely inspired, as in God inspired the human authors of the Bible to write it. It is the Word of God, but not the literal Word of God. The Quran, on the other hand, is considered to be literally Allah's own words, transcribed by Muhammad. The text of the Quran- every word of it- is taken by Muslims to be eternal and unable to be changed. It's to the point where a lot of Muslims believe that the Quran can only be truly understood if it's read in Arabic (in fact, Arabic is considered to be the holy language because it's what Allah spoke) and translations are only a pale imitation. Meanwhile, the Bible and its translations are taken less stringently because many Christians believe the spirit of the text is more important than the literal words.

When your prophet (who is considered the perfect example of what your religion's believers should be) is a warmongering pedophile, there might be something just a tad wrong with the foundation your religion is built on.

That's the other major problem about Islam, Muhammad himself. Say what you will about Christianity, but even the most avowed atheists concede that Jesus himself was a cool dude with a lot of good messages. He was a pacifist who advocated that you should love and respect everybody, even your enemies. He promoted the image of God as a loving father who would always love you and forgive you for your faults. He condemned greed and hypocrisy, as well as people who use religion for their own personal agendas or to get power and money. In short, Jesus was an exemplary role model whose teachings are still relevant over 2,000 years later.

Meanwhile, Muhammad was... problematic, to say the least. I don't think he was a complete mustache-twirling villain who never did anything good, because there are some sayings and actions attributed to him that are good. But imo the bad things he did and said vastly outweigh the good. He was a warmonger who took and raped sex slaves and married a 6-year-old girl. He codified 7th century behaviors that should have been left in the past but are still considered legitimate by Muslims because the "perfect man" did them (the most heinous of these is the fact that even today, some Muslims consider child marriage to be Islamic and lawful because Muhammad married Aisha. Child marriage is even still legal in some countries like Yemen because of it).

 

[mr.moon1488]

Yeah, the Bible is considered divinely inspired, as in God inspired the human authors of the Bible to write it. It is the Word of God, but not the literal Word of God. The Quran, on the other hand, is considered to be literally Allah's own words, transcribed by Muhammad. The text of the Quran- every word of it- is taken by Muslims to be eternal and unable to be changed. It's to the point where a lot of Muslims believe that the Quran can only be truly understood if it's read in Arabic (in fact, Arabic is considered to be the holy language because it's what Allah spoke) and translations are only a pale imitation. Meanwhile, the Bible and its translations are taken less stringently because many Christians believe the spirit of the text is more important than the literal words.



That's the other major problem about Islam, Muhammad himself. Say what you will about Christianity, but even the most avowed atheists concede that Jesus himself was a cool dude with a lot of good messages. He was a pacifist who advocated that you should love and respect everybody, even your enemies. He promoted the image of God as a loving father who would always love you and forgive you for your faults. He condemned greed and hypocrisy, as well as people who use religion for their own personal agendas or to get power and money. In short, Jesus was an exemplary role model whose teachings are still relevant over 2,000 years later.

Meanwhile, Muhammad was... problematic, to say the least. I don't think he was a complete mustache-twirling villain who never did anything good, because there are some sayings and actions attributed to him that are good. But imo the bad things he did and said vastly outweigh the good. He was a warmonger who took and raped sex slaves and married a 6-year-old girl. He codified 7th century behaviors that should have been left in the past but are still considered legitimate by Muslims because the "perfect man" did them (the most heinous of these is the fact that even today, some Muslims consider child marriage to be Islamic and lawful because Muhammad married Aisha. Child marriage is even still legal in some countries like Yemen because of it).

At least it does a good job teaching familial love.

 

[Cyclonus]

The Pope walks into a mosque.

The imam says "Why the wrong faith?"

 

[gang weeder]

Islam is right about women.