Islam

[Ntwadumela]

I'm afraid most religions have been having way squeekier recent pasts. Something has gone wrong with a lot of muslims in the last decades. It could be global media, it could be Saudi influence, or just having had enough of whatever President wanted their oil. But there is something even more rotten there than catholics' Pope Cuck. We all ignore this at our own risk.

I believe the reason for that is due to Salafi/Wahhabist brainwashing that originated in what is now Saudi Arabia when the major group Ikhwan swore loyalty to the Al Saud family, which made certain settlements for these Ikhwan which were originally bedouins in the desert who followed an extreme, fundamentalist version of Islam. They would get housing and fight for the Al Saud family in return. However they, under the leadership of Faisal Al-Duwaish, tried to get in conflict with various nations like Kuwait for example and while winning the first few battles due to greater numbers (Hamdh and Jahra), the Kuwaitis, although they fought hard and managed to eliminate most of them despite loss of ammunition, called for British reinforcements since Kuwait was under British protection at the time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikhwan
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hamdh
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jahra
Therefore, the reason that certain Islamic countries aren't doing well is due to the retaining of the Arab tribal mindset that was so common back in the day and that ended up being conflated with Islam since it is an important religion in the region. However there are countries which are starting to refrain if not outright abandoning these types of practices.

 

[Male Idiot]

Getting a bit more moderate would be the best for everybody in the long run, muslims included.

Before I'm misunderstood, I'm not saying they need to make Mohamed a Gay Black Prophet and respect every dumblr "gender" pronoun, just that they should let others live in their countries how they want, without violently trying to dominate or convert them. Let arabs live in the Middle East how they want, let europeans live in Europe how they want, etc.

 

[Abethedemon]

I think, like all religions, there are good and bad aspects to Islam. On one hand, Muhammad was actually a lot more respectful to women than his successors, and Islam (or at least some schools of jurisprudence) is one of the few religions that thinks masturbation is a good thing.
On the other hand, we still have a lot of groups and organizations that fight with one another and outsiders and many groups are ironically fascist in their opinions regarding women, healthcare and et cetera.
But there are schools of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and even Buddhism that do the same thing.

Islam is just another religion, whether you like it or not.

 

[Ntwadumela]

@Cato
I remember your statement about ISIS being a credible source for Islamic matters.
I disagree with you on that because ISIS has a habit of not only killing innocent non-Muslims but fellow Muslims as well. Islam highly stresses that you should never try to kill other Muslims unless in a dire situation.
Additionally, they harm and murder women and children, both of which also forbidden in Islam.
http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/113432/islam-does-not-tolerate-the-killing-of-innocents
http://www.muhajabah.com/reallysays.htm
https://www.thoughtco.com/what-does-islamic-law-say-about-rape-2004208

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/did_prophet_muhammad_kill_innocents.htm

 

[Brandobaris]

Getting a bit more moderate would be the best for everybody in the long run, muslims included.

 

[Wraith]

View attachment 224576

Death for leaving Islam: 584 million.
If 25% of that are combat capable men that were equipped and trained well you have yourself an army that would be vicious to take down. I don't like those odds.

I have several decades of experience with muslims. Without showing power levels, it's never been good, not even once.

 

[Male Idiot]

I think, like all religions, there are good and bad aspects to Islam. On one hand, Muhammad was actually a lot more respectful to women than his successors, and Islam (or at least some schools of jurisprudence) is one of the few religions that thinks masturbation is a good thing.
On the other hand, we still have a lot of groups and organizations that fight with one another and outsiders and many groups are ironically fascist in their opinions regarding women, healthcare and et cetera.
But there are schools of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and even Buddhism that do the same thing.

Islam is just another religion, whether you like it or not.

That is true, but in the recent centuries, most of those other religion schools of thought have become rather rare, something the middle east did not really follow.

 

[Abethedemon]

That is true, but in the recent centuries, most of those other religion schools of thought have become rather rare, something the middle east did not really follow.

That is true, but there is a problem of Buddhist terrorists in Myanmar and Sri Lanka. Hindu ultranationalism is also a problem in India and Christian fundamentalist groups have been on the rise in places such as the Ukraine and Russia.
Fundamentalist Islam is certainly a problem, but what many of these groups do is target their own kind.
I think we should combat it, but not just Islam itself.

 

[Male Idiot]

There is Westboro after all, but those usually have less impact, especially worldwide. These other fundies don't seem to be able to / want to cause world wide destruction.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Most religious Muslims aren't any worse than evangelicals. Though considering evangelicals are pretty horrible I don't think that's much of a positive.

Religion can be a positive or a negative influence in somebody's life, but the Abrahamic faiths have an expansionist and repressive strain in them that is totally at odds with the modern world. Or, hell, even personal happiness. It's telling to me that Christians need to omit the entire old testament in order to get a halfway decent values system out of the bible. Quran is actually less batshit than the bible believe it or not, but even so Muslims do the same shit. Being a good person and following these religions implies undermining them to an extent.

 

[Olhelm]

The problem is that Islam has never had a reformation like most other religions. For over a millennia and a half, there has been no change to the Quran at all, no Martin Luther figure, or reconstruction/renaissance of Islamic faith. It has, quite literally, gone unchanged, and enforces a stone-age society in the modern age.

 

[Terrorist]

you'd expect me to be a big ol shitty shitlord about this, but when they keep to their home countries and don't let the fundies take over muslims aren't that bad. their societies work for them when the radicals are kept at bay. i can even respect some things about them, like their strong traditionalist morals and resistance to poz.

they really don't belong in the west though, since islam is by nature expansionist and requires a takeover of the host culture.

Most religious Muslims aren't any worse than evangelicals. Though considering evangelicals are pretty horrible I don't think that's much of a positive....It's telling to me that Christians need to omit the entire old testament in order to get a halfway decent values system out of the bible. Quran is actually less batshit than the bible believe it or not

yeah no. call me when evangelicals are bombing ariana grande concerts and forming rape gangs because of the scripture. but mom making you go to church is just as bad right? ugh those xtian bigots.

 

[Emperor Julian]

it's hard to summerize multiple sects, nations over centuries for a single curt analysis. Which is part of the problem, what do the mughal emperors really have in common with some isis barbarian? I live in a pretty cosmopolitan city so interact with Muslims on a fairly regular basis, they're pretty much the same as anyone else. Pay bills, support local sports team, disapoint hard working parents with poor choices and lack of grandkids etc.But like I said they're no more a monolith than any other group I'm sure some of them are mental.

Although a Muslim work colleague did crack me up after the london a bus ttack when he leaned over and said "if anyone asks I'm Mexican and I love bacon"

 

[AnOminous]

you'd expect me to be a big ol shitty shitlord about this, but when they keep to their home countries and don't let the fundies take over muslims aren't that bad. their societies work for them when the radicals are kept at bay. i can even respect some things about them, like their strong traditionalist morals and resistance to poz.

I have met and dealt with a half-dozen Muslims or so and they've all been quality people. This includes a gay liberal, a couple very conservative and observant Muslims, and a couple secular couldn't-give-a-shit-about-religion types. Also a Nation of Islam guy who went from a crackhead loser in prison to a straight edge law abiding citizen.

The problem isn't all Muslims being extremist monsters, it's that the ones who are are really, really extreme and there's no effective counter to this. The ones who aren't are intimidated by the ones who are, because they are in fact extremely fucking scary people.

 

[escapegoat]

There is Westboro after all, but those usually have less impact, especially worldwide. These other fundies don't seem to be able to / want to cause world wide destruction.

Westboro is basically just a family of con artist lawyers. Seriously. They come into places hoping to be kicked out or lightly battered, then sue on first amendment grounds, usually getting some shithole township to settle. That is the grift. How they compare to terrorists and caliphates is anyone's guess. Every hear of a Phelps even assaulting anyone?

 

[AnOminous]

Westboro is basically just a family of con artist lawyers. Seriously. They come into places, then sue on first amendment grounds, usually getting some shithole settle. That is the grift. How the compare to terrorists and caliphates is anyone's guess.

It helps when the municipality is actually dumb enough to do shit that violates their rights. They have, on occasion, been legally in the right.

Specifically Snyder v. Phelps. Just because they're scum doesn't mean they're actually breaking the law.

 

[escapegoat]

They're totally shitbirds. They're not blowing up 10 year olds at pop concerts, though. It's a ridiculous comparison.

 

[AnOminous]

They're totally shitbirds. They're not blowing up 10 year olds at pop concerts, though. It's a ridiculous comparison.

Frankly, even comparing them to actual Christian terrorists, their extremists are worse, and I'm talking people like Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber. Usually, Christian extremist terrorists are single-issue focused, like on abortion, and their targets are specifically targeted for that reason. So they're dangerous and murderous, true, but only to a very limited group of people.

Islamist terrorists are known for incredibly indiscriminate acts of mass violence against nearly random targets, often people not even remotely actually related to anything other than not being Islamist extremists. They (luckily for the rest of us) often even target their own co-religionists for not being as crazy as they are.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Christianity is going through a soft period at the moment, largely due to it's decline in power and simple trial and error (lots of fucking error) has shown it certain approaches don't work. Their's nothing inherantly peaceful or pleasent about any major religion just certain trends lead them down certain paths and people are shaped accordingly. Islam is the same, it could have just as easily gone another way where the west or some other continent are a bunch of obligarchs squabbling with dumb fanatics and this is before the we consider the possibility of other religions gaining ascendance.

 

[escapegoat]

I dunno. I think there is a difference between thinking that the ideal human is a virgin who gives the sermon on the mount, and thinking that the ideal human is a genocidal merchant warlord with 13 wives.