Islam

[on a serious note]

Okay, I think I've figured out why modern Islam as a whole seems kind of stressed out atm. Bear with me...I think you guys need more dogs. I think that dogs are the key to spiritual stability and happiness

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

In what substantial ways does the Islamic view of the destruction of Sodom differ from that in the Bible?

My understanding from what little I remember from reading the Quran is that Islam takes alot of things extratestamental traditions from Christianity Judaism say about events; and explicitely says they're true. Like the issue at play in that instance being homosexuality.

 

[AnOminous]

Okay, I think I've figured out why modern Islam as a whole seems kind of stressed out atm. Bear with me...I think you guys need more dogs. I think that dogs are the key to spiritual stability and happiness

Doges are haram.

Just that by itself tells you something about Islam.

 

[Cosmos]

Since we have actual Muslims in this thread now, I'd like to list out what I think makes Islam's adherents more prone to violence than those of other religions and see what they think.

• As I mentioned earlier in this thread, what makes Islam a more dangerous ideology than other religious is its concern with political power. When secularism began to rise a couple of centuries ago, Christian leaders were able to rationalize and accept it (not without a struggle, of course) by looking at certain Biblical passages, and one in particular: "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God." This passage commands people to respect state authority and to pay the taxes it demands of them. This, combined with Jesus' insistence that "My kingdom is not of this world," makes it so many Christians do not see a problem with being loyal to earthly states. However, Islam seems pretty clear on imposing Islamic law. This clear lack of separation between mosque and state also makes it difficult for many Muslim immigrants to fully integrate into Western society.
• Another huge problem is literalism and the discouragement of questioning anything about Islam. Of course, all religious can have this problem, but Islam exacerbates it by repeatedly claiming that the Quran is the clear, perfect, immutable, inerrant Word of Allah. By contrast, the Bible was "inspired" by God yet written by many men over hundreds of years; it contains many stories and parables and symbolism that are not meant to be taken literally. However, as the literal Word of God, it's harder to argue that the Quran isn't meant to be taken literally. At least, that's what a lot of Islamic scholars will tell you.
• There seems to be a lot of concern over imposing Islamic values on non-Muslims. Now, for this one, I'm not saying that it's directly a flaw of Islam itself because I honestly don't know much about what Islamic scripture says in regards to non-Muslims and whether they have to follow Islamic rules. However, today, an awful lot of Muslims seem very concerned with whether other people are following their religion's rules or not. We see this every time someone makes a Muhammad cartoon or something. Seriously, people die when Muhammad is joked about. You can do whatever you want with Jesus or Buddha or Krishna, but heaven help you if you ever disparage Muhammad. It doesn't seem to matter that the people disparaging Muhammad are basically always non-Muslims and should therefore be excepted from Islamic rules.

Doges are haram.

Just that by itself tells you something about Islam.

I read somewhere that Islam is harsh towards dogs because 1.) Muhammad was a cat person or 2.) it was an attempt to discourage the practice of Zoroastrianism, which holds dogs to be sacred.

 

[AnOminous]

I read somewhere that Islam is harsh towards dogs because 1.) Muhammad was a cat person

One of the few reasons I don't completely despise him.

or 2.) it was an attempt to discourage the practice of Zoroastrianism, which holds dogs to be sacred.

It still doesn't matter. Any religion that treats dogs as unclean is fucked up.

 

[Cosmos]

It still doesn't matter. Any religion that treats dogs as unclean is fucked up.

Oh yeah, I completely agree. There's a reason why tons of people point out that "dog" is "god" spelled backwards; dogs are loyal, sweet, pure, wonderful, innocent creatures and the idea that many (not all, of course, but many) Muslims believe that they're inherently impure actually pisses me off quite a bit.

I mean, for fuck's sake, dogs are man's best friend. Cats are cool, don't get me wrong, but there is something incredibly deep and special about the bond between humanity and dogs. They were the very first domesticated animals; the earliest dog bones date back to 31,700 years ago and most scientists agree that dogs have been a distinct species for 15,000 to 20,000 years. For millennia, they've protected us, helped us, and accompanied us. Their loyalty is such that they will risk their lives to protect their human families, bypassing the innate "do anything to survive" instinct found in animals.

And yet somehow they're impure, unclean animals that aren't fit to be companions. Right.

 

[Ntwadumela]

Doges are haram.

Just that by itself tells you something about Islam.

Not exactly. We just can't keep them inside the house because they are considered to be unclean. I know a lot of people who own dogs and are Muslim, that's not exactly true. I used to own dogs before. In fact, what is Haraam is the abuse and killing of them, as well as eating them.

Since we have actual Muslims in this thread now, I'd like to list out what I think makes Islam's adherents more prone to violence than those of other religions and see what they think. There was a Hadith that involved a prostitute giving water to a thirsty dog with her shoe. When she died, it's said that she was forgiven for her sins and went to heaven.

• As I mentioned earlier in this thread, what makes Islam a more dangerous ideology than other religious is its concern with political power. When secularism began to rise a couple of centuries ago, Christian leaders were able to rationalize and accept it (not without a struggle, of course) by looking at certain Biblical passages, and one in particular: "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God." This passage commands people to respect state authority and to pay the taxes it demands of them. This, combined with Jesus' insistence that "My kingdom is not of this world," makes it so many Christians do not see a problem with being loyal to earthly states. However, Islam seems pretty clear on imposing Islamic law. This clear lack of separation between mosque and state also makes it difficult for many Muslim immigrants to fully integrate into Western society.
• Another huge problem is literalism and the discouragement of questioning anything about Islam. Of course, all religious can have this problem, but Islam exacerbates it by repeatedly claiming that the Quran is the clear, perfect, immutable, inerrant Word of Allah. By contrast, the Bible was "inspired" by God yet written by many men over hundreds of years; it contains many stories and parables and symbolism that are not meant to be taken literally. However, as the literal Word of God, it's harder to argue that the Quran isn't meant to be taken literally. At least, that's what a lot of Islamic scholars will tell you.
• There seems to be a lot of concern over imposing Islamic values on non-Muslims. Now, for this one, I'm not saying that it's directly a flaw of Islam itself because I honestly don't know much about what Islamic scripture says in regards to non-Muslims and whether they have to follow Islamic rules. However, today, an awful lot of Muslims seem very concerned with whether other people are following their religion's rules or not. We see this every time someone makes a Muhammad cartoon or something. Seriously, people die when Muhammad is joked about. You can do whatever you want with Jesus or Buddha or Krishna, but heaven help you if you ever disparage Muhammad. It doesn't seem to matter that the people disparaging Muhammad are basically always non-Muslims and should therefore be excepted from Islamic rules.

You make great points. However, there are more secular countries with high populations of Muslims such as Turkey for example that don't have this issue. Also, you don't see this issue in China, where there are actually a surprisingly large amount of Muslims there, yet you don't see them stirring up conflict. On the last point though, I agree with you and I think that people need to be less uptight about that.

 

[AnOminous]

Also, you don't see this issue in China, where there are actually a surprisingly large amount of Muslims there, yet you don't see them stirring up conflict.

Anyone who stirs up shit in China soon is made to cease that behavior. Often permanently.

And that's even if they aren't Tibetans or Falun Gong.

 

[Ntwadumela]

Anyone who stirs up shit in China soon is made to cease that behavior. Often permanently.

And that's even if they aren't Tibetans or Falun Gong.

Good point indeed. However I think China as a whole isn't fixated on religion as much as other countries, which is a huge plus honestly.

 

[Trilby]

Good point indeed. However I think China as a whole isn't fixated on religion as much as other countries, which is a huge plus honestly.

True. I suppose that's a lesson for the rest of the world when it comes to how religion needs to be 'put into its place' as I put it, sometimes I wonder if "knowing your place" in society is also important than to rock the boat with the way individuals or groups feel left out or need to feel superior to the rest. Unity is something I do think about a lot when it comes to these issues.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

For the Muslims in this thread I have a more personal series of questions about your views on Islam. @Ntwadumela and @Sheikh_Speare, it is my understanding that on a scriptural basis Islam implores its followers to act with respect to the "people of the book" and has a special set of legal, social, and religious rights that they are entitled to. In most mainstream schools these are Jews, Christians, and sometimes Zoroastrians. That leaves a lot of religions out, though, even in the most liberal interpretations.

So, one: I am curious though as to your opinions of polytheists. As in, how do you feel about the idolators, pagans, and syncretists of the world, such as say Romuva (Lithuania and the Baltic), Celtic polytheism/reconstructionism (self-explanatory), or perhaps Caribbean Vodou (which my family practices)? Should I/we be stoned to death or what? Do we just get grandfathered into Christianity (that would be fucking hilarious from an Islamic standpoint.) Are Hindus who aren't even really hard polytheists included in your view? I know some Muslims include them because at this point it is basically just convenient to. I know Pakistan has some ancient polytheistic communities still and they have made peace with them. Do you tolerate this or is it preferable?

Two: In all forms of Vodou there are Loa ("spirits") who are Muslims (some Loa lived human lives) and I hear they are supposed to pretty friendly and often use their Muslim virtues as guiding principles when interacting with the living. How do you feel about these religious figures existing in such a framework? Is it blasphemous for Haitians and others to do this or...?

Three, a lighthearted question: if I am a Vodouisant, who is worse- me or a Shi'ite? If you have to stone one of us who do you choose?

 

[Ntwadumela]

For the Muslims in this thread I have a more personal series of questions about your views on Islam. @Ntwadumela and @Sheikh_Speare, it is my understanding that on a scriptural basis Islam implores its followers to act with respect to the "people of the book" and has a special set of legal, social, and religious rights that they are entitled to. In most mainstream schools these are Jews, Christians, and sometimes Zoroastrians. That leaves a lot of religions out, though, even in the most liberal interpretations.

So, one: I am curious though as to your opinions of polytheists. As in, how do you feel about the idolators, pagans, and syncretists of the world, such as say Romuva (Lithuania and the Baltic), Celtic polytheism/reconstructionism (self-explanatory), or perhaps Caribbean Vodou (which my family practices)? Should I/we be stoned to death or what? Do we just get grandfathered into Christianity (that would be fucking hilarious from an Islamic standpoint.) Are Hindus who aren't even really hard polytheists included in your view? I know some Muslims include them because at this point it is basically just convenient to. I know Pakistan has some ancient polytheistic communities still and they have made peace with them. Do you tolerate this or is it preferable?

Two: In all forms of Vodou there are Loa ("spirits") who are Muslims (some Loa lived human lives) and I hear they are supposed to pretty friendly and often use their Muslim virtues as guiding principles when interacting with the living. How do you feel about these religious figures existing in such a framework? Is it blasphemous for Haitians and others to do this or...?

Three, a lighthearted question: if I am a Vodouisant, who is worse- me or a Shi'ite? If you have to stone one of us who do you choose?

Back when Islam was getting a foothold, followers of Islam would discourage polytheistic beliefs and idol worship. However, most of that was as a result of those said polytheists causing problems to them. The only countries I could think of now that discourage polytheism would be Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to a lesser extent. From my perspective, we have many Indian immigrants in Kuwait, the majority of them being Hindu, and they pretty much get along with my citizens, with some few racial tensions. If you want my personal opinion on polytheism, you can worship or believe whatever you want to, and I won't hold it against you. Also, I find it actually interesting that you have Muslim spirits in your Vodou beliefs considering that the Islamic World and Vodou Community are at opposite ends of the world in terms of geography. Additionally, in the present day there are countries like Egypt with a huge majority of Muslims and they managed to preserve Ancient Egyptian artifacts, temples and statues, and they happened to be polytheistic in nature. However, it's usually dependent on the country and how liberal/conservative it is. I won't deny that there are Muslims (especially Wahhabis/Salafis) that would kill others because of this, but I'm not one of them.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

Also, I find it actually interesting that you have Muslim spirits in your Vodou beliefs considering that the Islamic World and Vodou Community are at opposite ends of the world in terms of geography.

Africa was the middle ground that caused that, and although all three strains of the faith differ vastly today, there are still millions of practitioners there. Especially in the region once called "Dahomey" (and West Africa generally.) In fact, Togo is the only country left in Africa that is a non-Abrahamic majority (I believe) and its religion is African Vodou. Muslims were an important in the scholarly communities there, generally, and preserved a lot of literacy. They were remembered as the builders of great empires, generally, and people incorporated them into ancestral memory. They were generally pretty cool (comparatively) although the rise of extremism in post colonial Africa has made a nightmare of that (for which I do not blame Muslims, Europeans, or anyone really. Just famine, poverty, and plague.)

However, most of that was as a result of those said people causing problems to them. The only countries I could think of now that discourage polytheism would be Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to a lesser extent.

I am not sure I am feeling this, though. I feel like the general treatment of religious minorities in the Middle East, especially non-Abrahamic religions or those not perceived as such, like the Druzes, Mandeans (God watch over those poor bastards, the world's last gnostics), and Yazidis has been fairly poor in the last 20-30 years. Certain countries are certainly more tolerant than others, and it would be foolish to group Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, or Bahrain in with Irag, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, and Yemen, but I feel like on a legal and social level the treatment of a lot of minorities is not where I would like it to be. I feel like if it actually came up on a widespread level locally, there would be serious and brutal violence even from more moderate wings. I don't really see Kuwait specifically as any worse than say, America, though, just a different set of attitudes and prejudices.

I won't deny that there are Muslims (especially Wahhabis/Salafis) that would kill others because of this, but I'm not one of them.

Haha, of course. I wasn't seriously implying you were. You wouldn't be in a thread on Kiwi Farms short of a lolcow thread if you were. I was hoping it would come off a friendly gesture as autistic as that sounds now.

Can I ask what school of jurisprudence you follow? You are Sunni, yes? But more specifically?

 

[Ntwadumela]

Africa was the middle ground that caused that, and although all three strains of the faith differ vastly today, there are still millions of practitioners there. Especially in the region once called "Dahomey" (and West Africa generally.) In fact, Togo is the only country left in Africa that is a non-Abrahamic majority (I believe) and its religion is African Vodou. Muslims were an important in the scholarly communities there, generally, and preserved a lot of literacy. They were remembered as the builders of great empires, generally, and people incorporated them into ancestral memory. They were generally pretty cool (comparatively) although the rise of extremism in post colonial Africa has made a nightmare of that (for which I do not blame Muslims, Europeans, or anyone really. Just famine, poverty, and plague.)



I am not sure I am feeling this, though. I feel like the general treatment of religious minorities in the Middle East, especially non-Abrahamic religions or those not perceived as such, like the Druzes, Mandeans (God watch over those poor bastards, the world's last gnostics), and Yazidis has been fairly poor in the last 20-30 years. Certain countries are certainly more tolerant than others, and it would be foolish to group Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, or Bahrain in with Irag, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, and Yemen, but I feel like on a legal and social level the treatment of a lot of minorities is not where I would like it to be. I feel like if it actually came up on a widespread level locally, there would be serious and brutal violence even from more moderate wings. I don't really see Kuwait specifically as any worse than say, America, though, just a different set of attitudes and prejudices.



Haha, of course. I wasn't seriously implying you were. You wouldn't be in a thread on Kiwi Farms short of a lolcow thread if you were. I was hoping it would come off a friendly gesture as autistic as that sounds now.

Can I ask what school of jurisprudence you follow? You are Sunni, yes? But more specifically?

Yeah, you are right about Muslims playing an important role in African societies. I completely forgot about that. Africa's main problem right now in addition to poverty is that they are far behind in progressive thinking compared to others and need a lifestyle reform. I believe that can happen with proper funding and a little prodding.
There are people like Saddam Hussein who have legitimately caused problems to ethnic and religious minorities, even causing the genocide of Kurds. Those people however mostly wanted absolute power like Hitler did. I personally have a Lebanese Druze friend and we've gotten along well, although I haven't seen him in years and mostly contact him by Whatsapp nowadays. The proper treatment of minorities I believe will come with time, and people need to understand that not everyone has the same beliefs and lifestyle.
As for the specific sect of Sunni Islam? You could say I'm Hanafi, but it doesn't really matter in my society, and the only ones that do care are sheikhs and imams.

 

[Trilby]

Yeah, you are right about Muslims playing an important role in African societies. I completely forgot about that. Africa's main problem right now in addition to poverty is that they are far behind in progressive thinking compared to others and need a lifestyle reform. I believe that can happen with proper funding and a little prodding.
There are people like Saddam Hussein who have legitimately caused problems to ethnic and religious minorities, even causing the genocide of Kurds. Those people however mostly wanted absolute power like Hitler did. I personally have a Lebanese Druze friend and we've gotten along well, although I haven't seen him in years and mostly contact him by Whatsapp nowadays. The proper treatment of minorities I believe will come with time, and people need to understand that not everyone has the same beliefs and lifestyle.
As for the specific sect of Sunni Islam? You could say I'm Hanafi, but it doesn't really matter in my society, and the only ones that do care are sheikhs and imams.

I'm only glad to know your country has a secular government. I wish more countries in the region were as progressive as yours.

 

[Ntwadumela]

I'm only glad to know your country has a secular government. I wish more countries in the region were as progressive as yours.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. Instead they're uptight at the fact that people think and believe in different ways. Hopefully that will happen with time, once all this bullshit has been taken care of.

 

[Trilby]

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. Instead they're uptight at the fact that people think and believe in different ways. Hopefully that will happen with time, once all this bullshit has been taken care of.

I'm sure it takes generations. It's a case of getting everyone on the same page as I put it.

 

[Doctor Professor Timon]

Africa was the middle ground that caused that, and although all three strains of the faith differ vastly today, there are still millions of practitioners there. Especially in the region once called "Dahomey" (and West Africa generally.) In fact, Togo is the only country left in Africa that is a non-Abrahamic majority (I believe) and its religion is African Vodou. Muslims were an important in the scholarly communities there, generally, and preserved a lot of literacy. They were remembered as the builders of great empires, generally, and people incorporated them into ancestral memory. They were generally pretty cool (comparatively) although the rise of extremism in post colonial Africa has made a nightmare of that (for which I do not blame Muslims, Europeans, or anyone really. Just famine, poverty, and plague.)



I am not sure I am feeling this, though. I feel like the general treatment of religious minorities in the Middle East, especially non-Abrahamic religions or those not perceived as such, like the Druzes, Mandeans (God watch over those poor bastards, the world's last gnostics), and Yazidis has been fairly poor in the last 20-30 years. Certain countries are certainly more tolerant than others, and it would be foolish to group Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, or Bahrain in with Irag, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, and Yemen, but I feel like on a legal and social level the treatment of a lot of minorities is not where I would like it to be. I feel like if it actually came up on a widespread level locally, there would be serious and brutal violence even from more moderate wings. I don't really see Kuwait specifically as any worse than say, America, though, just a different set of attitudes and prejudices.



Haha, of course. I wasn't seriously implying you were. You wouldn't be in a thread on Kiwi Farms short of a lolcow thread if you were. I was hoping it would come off a friendly gesture as autistic as that sounds now.

Can I ask what school of jurisprudence you follow? You are Sunni, yes? But more specifically?

Unlike most people, I bother reading and understanding religions that differ from my own. The following passages are taken from the same chapter. Nobody can accuse me of taking things out of context. Quran has over 109 verses that say to go to war and kill non-Muslims to instate Muslim rule. Just sayin'. And NO. I'm not posting all of them. All the ones I'm posting right now are from the same chapter.

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

(Still referring to idolators) Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people."

(More fun facts. In Arabic, the word used for Striven in this context is from the same root word as Jihad, interesting, the Quran is much more descript in Arabic as many Muslims claim! Oh, wait. I actually look up speeches by Muslim clerics and such... I must be a bad person. ))Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:33) It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

And one more from Quran: 17.

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

 

[Vitriol]

I'm only glad to know your country has a secular government. I wish more countries in the region were as progressive as yours.

semi secular- blasphemy carries the death penalty for muslims and up to a decade in prison for non muslims. Ramadan is enforced by law, non muslim men who marry muslim women can have their marriages annulled, apostates also cannot inherit from muslims. We could not have this discussion in kuwait without risking imprisonment.

 

[Ntwadumela]

Unlike most people, I bother reading and understanding religions that differ from my own. The following passages are taken from the same chapter. Nobody can accuse me of taking things out of context. Quran has over 109 verses that say to go to war and kill non-Muslims to instate Muslim rule. Just sayin'. And NO. I'm not posting all of them. All the ones I'm posting right now are from the same chapter.

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

(Still referring to idolators) Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people."

(More fun facts. In Arabic, the word used for Striven in this context is from the same root word as Jihad, interesting, the Quran is much more descript in Arabic as many Muslims claim! Oh, wait. I actually look up speeches by Muslim clerics and such... I must be a bad person. ))Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:33) It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

And one more from Quran: 17.

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

Very informative indeed, and it's great you do bother to research this. However, let me state this: those phrases, especially the first one you posted (9:5) are only applicable in the case of a peace treaty being broken by the non-Muslim faction. In addition, at that time, the prophet PBUH and his followers were highly persecuted by others in the region. There is plenty of documentation online that he was not the one who started it. Read this article and check the citations that go along with it:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_by_the_Meccans
There is a Hadith made by the Prophet PBUH additionally that describes an occurrence where a Jewish person would litter his house for days and once that Jew fell ill, The Prophet PBUH prayed to God for him to get better.
I don't deny you've provided good evidence, but try to see it from both sides as well.

semi secular- blasphemy carries the death penalty for muslims and up to a decade in prison for non muslims. Ramadan is enforced by law, non muslim men who marry muslim women can have their marriages annulled, apostates also cannot inherit from muslims. We could not have this discussion in kuwait without risking imprisonment.

I don't deny that you're correct, but Kuwait is improving gradually in that regard. You have to admit though, it's nowhere near as bad as Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and the country is a constitutional monarchy and not governed by strict Sharia law. I take it you're Atheist? You won't get killed unless you'd stir something here or did something dire, and even then it wouldn't be for a religious reason. Better yet, you would have nothing to worry about. Obviously there are things like what you have stated that need to be addressed, but overall it's a safe country.