Islam

[Ravenor]

However, the Muslims I have met have been degrees more polite than those christians and jews. Not saying that they are inferior, but simply stating what I have experienced socially.

I will say that's kind of hit and miss, in the UK at least. You can walk into a shop owned by muslims knowing full well they talk fluent english but just to dick with you, I have noticed that it's more likely to happen in areas where tensions are high.

But you bought up a very important point: the usage of the word "Islamophobia." Islamophobia is complete and utter bullshit for the most part. Islamophobia has been a term that's accurately described the discrimination Muslim-looking people have undergone since 9/11 (a big example is how people who aren't even fucking Muslim- like Indians or Sikhs- getting insulted or even assaulted just because they "look" Muslim). But I really feel like it's gotten way out of hand in recent years.

This a hundred times this, the problem is the more politically manipulative parts of the community love it and teach it out it's what allows them to spin any criticism of Islam or a Single muslim as a racist incident. I am aware of a few incidents where a muslim threatened to goto the media with claims of Islamophobia if things didn't go the way they wanted and being accused of racisim is one thing any one in a position of power doesn't want especially in the current climate.

It got so bad that Ali G (borat to americans) had a joke / catch phrase about it "Is'it cuz I is black" (the original when Ali G was just a stand up was much more on target).

That being said, I'm not denying people being discriminated against, because they are and it's terrible. But "Islamophobia" has become much more about race than religion now, which has led to any criticism of the Islamic religion or Islamism being branded as inherently racist. We can denounce bigotry, racism, and prejudice against Muslims or Arabs while still being able to criticize certain Islamic beliefs that pose a threat to Western society.

Yea sadly this shit happens and sadly because of the people crying wolf it get's ignored, Racism is mostly a mark of uneducated people who are afraid of what they don't know and yet sadly in the 21's century where knowledge of other cultures and experiences is either a few clicks of a mouse or at most a relatively sheep flight away it's still a issue.

What I don't like is the very american concept of "Hate Crime" that's been creeping into EU laws, a crime might be inspired by religious, cultural or sexual intolerance but as a secular nation (well supposedly) but often very harsh punishments already exist for violent crimes. Since the late 40's in Europe MOST states have been trying to move towards a more secular interpretation of the law, that's by Blasphemy laws have been repealed or made VERY lax inside the EU. No one person, race or sexuality should have the favor of the law. If you harm some one intentionally you should get the book thrown at you, be it a drunken scrap, a fight between kids from differing schools (don't get me started on religious schools), or people atacking some one for any reason the law exists to make us equal, nothing should make you a special snow flake.

Onto what need's to happen now, at least in Europe is for the Muslim community to question it's self on the way it portrays it's self to the rest of the world. In Europe Muslims are very insular and that kind of attitude breeds suspicion. I said a few years ago "Muslims are building there own ghettos, they are building there own isolation from the communities they actively avoid, distance them selfs from and allow the minority negative voices speak for them, this is how intolerance takes root", in Europe we culturally don't have a great image of Islam (rightly or wrongly) however the muslim community inside of europe does NOTHING to help that image.

As a non muslim, and a Atheist (not the neck beard type as hopefully you all know) my message is, Don't ask for special flavors, we don't offer them to our indigenous religions your no different, stop visibly separating yourself for the rest of the community every chance you get, stop dealing with problems inside the community if some one is a crook don't pretend you know nothing be honest, don't exclude people by talking in your parents grandparents or great grand parents language when calling a order in a kebab shop this isn't saying don't learn the language but in a place your interacting with people who don't it's just common curtesy, Don't ask for exceptions from laws we all have to deal with, I can't go into a bank with my face fully covered nether can I go through passport control like that your face is who you are we like to and in some cases need to know who we are dealing with.

In short stop alienating yourselfs you have chose to come here or where born here we are not a religious state, and when some one might be considering harming some one or a group of people shop them to the police, just BE part of the community you exist in rather than exist in a community your surrounded by and isolate yourself from.

 

[*Asterisk*]

Extreme Wahabbism also spread as a result of Western powers funding, via Saudi Arabia, mujahadeen to fight the Soviets in central Asia. Communism terrified the Saudis just as much as it terrified the West, and conservative religious Muslims have no more love for Communism than conservative religious Christians do. Of course, it seemed like the right idea at the time, and I don't know if Reagan, Thatcher, et al could've possibly known what would become of the anti-Soviet mujahadeen once they no longer had Soviets to fight. But once the mujahadeen returned to Saudi Arabia, they found no jobs there (chronic unemployment is a big problem in many Gulf countries as their economy is based almost entirely on oil, and other menial jobs are performed by South Asian immigrants). So you have deeply religious men who spent much of their formative years learning to fight in the name of their religion, now without an enemy to fight and nothing else to occupy their time or allow them to make a living, and,well, that's bad news.

EDIT: It's worth noting that Saudi fears of Communism were not unfounded; there were relatively popular Communist parties in Iran, Iraq, and other Islamic countries, and if I remember correctly the Egyptians and the Syrians had relatively warm relations with the Soviet Union.

There's a rather sick joke tethered to modern Muslim paleoconservatives: While it's entirely reasonable for the Third World and the Muslim World to harbor grievence against the First and Second Worlds, almost none of the beefs said religious fascists hold are the ones worth having.

In Iran, for example, the US and UK overthrew a democratically elected leader because he was seen as overly supporting of the Russians and insufficiently supporive of us. But the Shi'a religious fascists who would eventually take over the country supported Operation Ajax. The Shah committed horrendous human rights abuses, but His Holiness Ayatollah Khomeini opposed the Shah on the grounds that he was too liberal.

This sort of syssyphean nightmare has metastasized throughout almost the entire Muslim World. Horrible corrupt "secular" leaders like Saddam Hussein and Mummar Ghaddafi rape and pillage anyone unfortunate enough to be caught in their general direction, and those who fight most fervently against them are almost always those who are regressively religious enough to accept the very real possibility that they themselves will be raped and tortured on their slow path to death.

Faith is the only human trait powerful enough to conquer fear. Unless those of us who value humanism and classical liberalism are willing to match the faith of the most fervent religious fascists, our values will never see the light of day.

 

[Ariel]

 

[autisticdragonkin]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

Although the invaders may destroy western society it doesn't say anything about islam itself which is a civilized religion that promotes virtue and family values

 

[Ariel]

Although the invaders may destroy western society it doesn't say anything about islam itself which is a civilized religion that promotes virtue and family values

 

[Hat]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vxR57XmSv40

We need more men like this.

 

[The Knife's Husbando]

Reading the news as of late, and being completely honest here, I have to say one thing.

As a Bisexual Agnostic, I have a lot more respect for the Fundamentalist Islamics than I do the Fundamentalist Christians in the world. I mean, they make no bones about it. They want my complete and utter destruction, none of that "pray away the gay" or "love the sinner, not the sin" bullshit.

I'll take an honest enemy over a fake friend any day.

 

[*Asterisk*]

Reading the news as of late, and being completely honest here, I have to say one thing.

As a Bisexual Agnostic, I have a lot more respect for the Fundamentalist Islamics than I do the Fundamentalist Christians in the world. I mean, they make no bones about it. They want my complete and utter destruction, none of that "pray away the gay" or "love the sinner, not the sin" bullshit.

I'll take an honest enemy over a fake friend any day.

If you're the pitcher, it's not gay.
- The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him

 

[Derbydollar]

:islamic::islamic::islamic: PEACE BE TO YOU BROTHERS! BEWARE OF THE DANGEROUS PAGAN GAMERGATER JACE "STRYKER". MAY ALLAH GIVE HIM SWIFT DEATH :islamic::islamic::islamic:

Now that my shitposting tendencies have been alleviated...

All of my interactions with muslims have left me feeling that they're no worse than some of the more fundamentalist Christians in the United States. The difference is that the political instability in the region allowed for the seeds of fundamental religion to grow. I don't believe that Islam is a religion that encourages acceptance and peaceful behavior, either.

All of the Abrahamic religions are based on inhuman, violent, and reprehensible texts. Some of the mythology has cultural relevance (E.G. Prominent demons like Azazel and monsters like the Leviathan, Noah and the Ark, the Jinn from the Koran), but it should be just that: Mythology. You rarely see people killing in the name of Mars or Ares, because they're irrelevant anecdotes in history that are taught as fiction.

The world ill needs more dogmas that promote violence. As the first crusaders called their excuse, Deus Vult- As God Wills.
We have plenty of secular ways to excuse such atrocities.

 

[Ravenor]

A rather interesting article written by the Editor of the Iraq Daily Adnan Hussein, called "This is our Terror, We are responsible"

Editor Of Iraqi Daily: The Arabs And Muslims Must Acknowledge Their Direct Responsibility For The Terror Sweeping The World
Following ISIS's November 13, 2015 terror attack in Paris, the executive editor of the Iraqi daily Al-Mada, 'Adnan Hussein, published a harsh article titled "This Is Our Terror, We Are Responsible," in which he stated that all Muslims, Sunnis and Shi'ite, bear direct responsibility for the terror that is sweeping the world. He said that the curricula, the media and the mosques in the Muslim world constitute a platform for inculcating a barbaric kind of Islam that condones beheadings and bloodshed, whereas the voice of the other kind of Islam, which preaches peace and compassion, is barely heard. This religious extremism, which presents the Muslims as the best of nations and all others as infidels bound for hell, has pitched young Muslim into "a holy world war" against the rest of humanity, he stated. He called on Muslims to acknowledge this and to enact comprehensive reforms to change the rhetoric in the schools, mosques and media.

The following are excerpts from his article:[1]

'Adnan Hussein (source: almadapaper.net)

"We cannot shake off our responsibility for the new and terrible terror attack that recently struck Paris, the French capital. We, the Arabs and Muslims, cannot renounce our direct role and our close connection to the terror attacks that have been flooding all the countries of the world, including our own countries, for two decades or more.

"In religion and history classes in elementary school, junior high, high school and later [even] in the university, they insisted on teaching us that we are the chosen [people], the best and most glorious of nations, that our religion is the true religion and that we are the right group that will be saved [from hell],[2] whereas others are people of falsehood, infidels who belong in hell and are doomed to hellfire, whose killing is permissible and whose property and wives are ours for the taking. In these classes they presented us with examples, such as Koranic verses and Prophetic hadiths that had been taken out of their historical context, so that we got the impression that the ruling was absolute and must be applied in every place and every time until the Day of Judgement...

"At the mosque or the husseiniyya [Shi'ite congregation hall and place of worship], they would sharpen our sectarian inclinations by inciting against the members of other religions and even of other [Muslim] sects, [calling them] Khawarij,[3] rawafid [a Sunni derogatory term for Shi'ites], nawasib [a Shi'ite derogatory term for Sunnis], deviants and apostates.

"Today our children and grandchildren receive in their schools, universities, mosques and husseiniyyas very large and strong doses of [that] sectarian religious [drug] that is spiritually and mentally deadly, while the sectarian religious television and radio stations, which broadcast around the clock and receive funds at the expense of schools and hospitals, strengthen its [effect even further]. Our children and grandchildren are engaged in a holy world war against all others, no matter what their religion, sect or nationality. This environment gave rise to the extremist Islamic groups, which were fertilized by poverty, unemployment, marginalization, the usurpation of human rights and individual and collective freedoms, and the violation of honor, which were sometimes carried out in the name of pan-Arabism and sometimes in the name of religion or sect.

"We cannot escape our responsibility for terror, and no excuses will avail us. First we must recognize [our responsibility], and apologize to ourselves and others and correct our ways from now on. We cannot do this without thoroughly rethinking our curricula and changing them from the root, from elementary school to university [level]. There will be no forgiveness unless we change the way religion is presented in the curricula, in universities, in mosques and in husseiniyyas, and on the radio and television stations. For the religion [as presented there] is not a religion of tolerance, peace, harmony, mutual responsibility and compassion. The religion [presented] in our curricula, universities, mosques and husseiniyyas, and on the radio and television stations, is a barbaric religion characterized by beheadings and bloodshed and which incites to steal, usurp, enslave and rape. The other, [compassionate,] religion, which some of claim is the true religion, has no presence in our lives. At best, its voice is feeble and heard almost by nobody, especially among the oppressed new generation that is marginalized and whose humanity is being compromised by poverty, rejection and injustice, and by the crazy curricula and fatwas."

Endnotes:

[1] Al-Mada (Iraq), November 15, 2015.

[2] According to a hadith, the Prophet said that the Muslim nation would split into many different groups and sects, only one of which would be saved.

[3] The Khawarij broke away from the forces of Caliph 'Ali bin Abu Taleb and formed Islam's first religious opposition group.

Apparently this guy is well respected, I hope that this is the first sign of change within the Muslim world.

Edit, Source.

 

[AnOminous]

A rather interesting article written by the Editor of the Iraq Daily Adnan Hussein, called "This is our Terror, We are responsible"



Apparently this guy is well respected, I hope that this is the first sign of change within the Muslim world.

Edit, Source.

This is the kind of guy I'm talking about when I tell people that most Muslims aren't like that. Really.

It's just that you don't see Western media "signal boost" it when people like this speak up.

 

[Cosmos]

A rather interesting article written by the Editor of the Iraq Daily Adnan Hussein, called "This is our Terror, We are responsible"

Apparently this guy is well respected, I hope that this is the first sign of change within the Muslim world.

Edit, Source.

This guy is awesome. Good for him!

Honestly, I think the best way to halt the spread of radical Islam is to stop Saudi Wahhabism from infecting mosques, schools, and media. As I explained in an earlier post, Saudi Arabians have spent literally billions of dollars (all funded via oil) exporting their brand of radical Islam for decades now. The most common way they do is is by building mosques and madrassas in foreign countries, which they then place radical Wahabbists in to spread their hate speech and agendas. These imams (or teachers in some cases) preach and distribute literature that assert that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to hate infidels (such as Jews, Christians, Hindus, atheists, and non-Wahabbi Muslims) and to never befriend or help them in any way, that democracy is un-Islamic and is responsible for all of the wars in the 20th Century (while stressing that the only "good" form of government is totalitarian Wahhabi-style Islamic law), that tolerant Muslims who advocate equality and open-mindedness (especially towards non-Muslims) are apostates, and that it is the duty of every Muslim to fight unbelievers until Islam rules the entire world. This Saudi-funded hate speech has even found its way into some American mosques.

It cannot be overstated how badly Wahabbism has poisoned Muslims around the world. While the greatest number of victims come from rural or impoverished areas, where Saudi-built mosques and madrassas are often the only way for people to receive any kind of education, Wahhabist mosques and imams have still managed to permeate Western countries. I know that a lot of European countries have a major problem with these hate-preachers who are radicalizing and brainwashing Muslims (although thankfully, it seems like the Paris attacks have encouraged European governments to finally start cracking down on radical mosques and deporting preachers who spread hate speech).

And yet, despite al of this, we still act like Saudi Arabia is our friend and allow it to keep exporting fundamentalism. The only way to stop Wahhabism from spreading is to prevent Saudis from building mosques abroad; poorer nations may not be able to afford to say no, but the United States and most European nations can.

 

[Butta Face Lopez]

Reading the news as of late, and being completely honest here, I have to say one thing.

As a Bisexual Agnostic, I have a lot more respect for the Fundamentalist Islamics than I do the Fundamentalist Christians in the world. I mean, they make no bones about it. They want my complete and utter destruction, none of that "pray away the gay" or "love the sinner, not the sin" bullshit.

I'll take an honest enemy over a fake friend any day.

Ok, so just to be completely clear here:

You encounter two groups. Group A may harbor a secret dislike for you, or maybe it's not so secret. They may say something passive aggressive like "I'll pray for you," or they might actually say something mean.

Group B will, if you're lucky, ONLY throw you off a building.

You choose Group B?

 

[AnOminous]

Islam rules the entire world. This Saudi-funded hate speech has even found its way into some American mosques.

As long as the oil keeps flowing from these scum, so will their diseased ideology.

Too many people are making too much money for them to do a damn thing to stop it.

Ok, so just to be completely clear here:

You encounter two groups. Group A may harbor a secret dislike for you, or maybe it's not so secret. They may say something passive aggressive like "I'll pray for you," or they might actually say something mean.

Group B will, if you're lucky, ONLY throw you off a building.

You choose Group B?

Depends what you mean by choose. Group B wears an identifiable uniform and will be easier to shoot at.

 

[Cosmos]

As long as the oil keeps flowing from these scum, so will their diseased ideology.

Too many people are making too much money for them to do a damn thing to stop it.

I'm just gonna powerlevel here for a minute, don't mind me.

That's what really disgusts me: seeing all of these Western governments and organizations who know exactly what Saudi Arabia is all about shamelessly brown nosing and sucking up to them. I mean, for fuck's sake, Saudi Arabia was elected to head the UN Human Rights Council Panel.

That's right, the country that:

• Infantilizes grown-ass women to the point where it's illegal for them to leave their homes unaccompanied by a male family member, forces them to cover up everything but their eyes and hands when they do get to leave the house, and denies them any shred of autonomy by forbidding them to drive as well as forcing them to have male guardians who must sign off on everything they do, including medical procedures and actually being allowed to leave the damn country.
• Has literally no concept of freedom of religion whatsoever; all religions other than Islam (Sunni Islam, to be precise) are illegal in Saudi Arabia. You can get arrested (or worse) for doing or wearing anything that marks you as a Christian, Jew, Hindu, or other non-Muslim. Atheists are treated even worse. But it's Muslims who decide to leave Islam (gee, how could any person living in Saudi Arabia possibly become severely disillusioned by or even contemptuous of Islam?), either for another religion or just to forsake religion altogether, who suffer the most. They're considered apostates, worse than any born nonbeliever, and are only deserving of execution or life imprisonment unless they return to Islam.
• Has non-existent freedom of speech. All media is heavily censored. Also, anything that can be even slightly interpreted as criticism towards the Royal Family, the government, or- heaven help you- Islam and its Holy Prophet, will get you jailed, beaten, and possibly even executed.
• Indoctrinates children via textbooks that teach The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact, asserts that Jews (referred to as apes), Christians (called swine), and other nonbelievers deserve nothing but hatred and that Muslims mustn't befriend, help, or respect them, condemns and denigrates all non-Wahhabi Muslims and lumps them in with all the other nonbelievers, and tells Muslim children that it is their duty to spread Islam through any means necessary.
• Has no political freedom. The people have no control over what goes on in their lives because Saudi Arabia is ruled by a very strict regime that does not tolerate any dissent.
• Has a very high rate of capital punishment. You can be executed for murder and rape as well as apostasy, adultery, drug use, and witchcraft and sorcery. They use very humane methods such as public beheadings with a sword, stoning or firing squads, and even crucifixion.
• It's illegal to be gay there. You can be executed or publicly tortured if you're suspected of being homosexual.

was elected to lead a human rights council by the UN. Not to mention that the UN and Western governments in general stay awfully (some would even say suspiciously) silent about Saudi Arabia's abysmal human rights record and never demand them to clean up their act (the UN is completely fine with constantly bashing Israel, by the way, because they don't have any oil to smooth the wheels with).

And as long as Saudi Arabia keeps pumping out that sweet black gold, nobody will ever call them out on their role in propagating terrorism and fundamentalism worldwide or refuse to let them infect the West. Nobody will hold them accountable for being one of the absolute worst places in the world and a graveyard of human rights. What an absolute fucking joke.

 

[The Knife's Husbando]

Ok, so just to be completely clear here:

You encounter two groups. Group A may harbor a secret dislike for you, or maybe it's not so secret. They may say something passive aggressive like "I'll pray for you," or they might actually say something mean.

Group B will, if you're lucky, ONLY throw you off a building.

You choose Group B?

Like I said. Honest enemies are better than fake friends.

Not saying I'd have a beer with either.

 

[MrTroll]

Like I said. Honest enemies are better than fake friends.

Not saying I'd have a beer with either.

This perspective, of course, could only come from someone who doesn't have to worry about said "honest enemies" murdering them with full government sanction.

 

[Cosmos]

Like I said. Honest enemies are better than fake friends.

Not saying I'd have a beer with either.

I mean, I understand where you're coming from, but at the same time if I were gay I'd much rather deal with people fake-smiling at me and promising to pray my gay away than with maniacs who would gleefully throw me off a building or slit my throat in the streets. Also, like @MrTroll said, murders of homosexuals rarely go punished in the Middle East (or most Muslim-majority countries, for that matter) because it saves the government the trouble of having to lock them up and/or execute them themselves.

 

[The Knife's Husbando]

This perspective, of course, could only come from someone who doesn't have to worry about said "honest enemies" murdering them with full government sanction.

I grew up as a pagan bisexual in rural Alabama. Think about that for a second.

I've lost track of the fights I've been in.

 

[Derbydollar]

I'm just gonna powerlevel here for a minute, don't mind me.

That's what really disgusts me: seeing all of these Western governments and organizations who know exactly what Saudi Arabia is all about shamelessly brown nosing and sucking up to them. I mean, for fuck's sake, Saudi Arabia was elected to head the UN Human Rights Council Panel.

That's right, the country that:

• Infantilizes grown-ass women to the point where it's illegal for them to leave their homes unaccompanied by a male family member, forces them to cover up everything but their eyes and hands when they do get to leave the house, and denies them any shred of autonomy by forbidding them to drive as well as forcing them to have male guardians who must sign off on everything they do, including medical procedures and actually being allowed to leave the damn country.
• Has literally no concept of freedom of religion whatsoever; all religions other than Islam (Sunni Islam, to be precise) are illegal in Saudi Arabia. You can get arrested (or worse) for doing or wearing anything that marks you as a Christian, Jew, Hindu, or other non-Muslim. Atheists are treated even worse. But it's Muslims who decide to leave Islam (gee, how could any person living in Saudi Arabia possibly become severely disillusioned by or even contemptuous of Islam?), either for another religion or just to forsake religion altogether, who suffer the most. They're considered apostates, worse than any born nonbeliever, and are only deserving of execution or life imprisonment unless they return to Islam.
• Has non-existent freedom of speech. All media is heavily censored. Also, anything that can be even slightly interpreted as criticism towards the Royal Family, the government, or- heaven help you- Islam and its Holy Prophet, will get you jailed, beaten, and possibly even executed.
• Indoctrinates children via textbooks that teach The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact, asserts that Jews (referred to as apes), Christians (called swine), and other nonbelievers deserve nothing but hatred and that Muslims mustn't befriend, help, or respect them, condemns and denigrates all non-Wahhabi Muslims and lumps them in with all the other nonbelievers, and tells Muslim children that it is their duty to spread Islam through any means necessary.
• Has no political freedom. The people have no control over what goes on in their lives because Saudi Arabia is ruled by a very strict regime that does not tolerate any dissent.
• Has a very high rate of capital punishment. You can be executed for murder and rape as well as apostasy, adultery, drug use, and witchcraft and sorcery. They use very humane methods such as public beheadings with a sword, stoning or firing squads, and even crucifixion.
• It's illegal to be gay there. You can be executed or publicly tortured if you're suspected of being homosexual.

was elected to lead a human rights council by the UN. Not to mention that the UN and Western governments in general stay awfully (some would even say suspiciously) silent about Saudi Arabia's abysmal human rights record and never demand them to clean up their act (the UN is completely fine with constantly bashing Israel, by the way, because they don't have any oil to smooth the wheels with).

And as long as Saudi Arabia keeps pumping out that sweet black gold, nobody will ever call them out on their role in propagating terrorism and fundamentalism worldwide or refuse to let them infect the West. Nobody will hold them accountable for being one of the absolute worst places in the world and a graveyard of human rights. What an absolute fucking joke.

The UN is a joke.

As soon as fossil fuels become obsolete, Saudi Arabia will become irrelevant.
All the more reasons to switch to green energy, huh?