Science IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition - Lifting weights with a beer belly at the Olympics is top Female physique or how to Transpeak working class people 101

Article: https://netherlandsnewslive.com/ioc-transgender-rules-do-not-provide-fair-competition/150006/
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Original Dutch Article: https://nos.nl/artikel/2379979-transgenderregels-ioc-leveren-geen-eerlijke-competitie-op

IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition
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Lundberg: “There is no research showing that the therapy makes a difference in terms of performance advantage. In almost all studies the limit of five nanomoles was reached, but the effect on muscle mass and strength remained small.”


“Hormone therapy also has hardly any effect on removing the advantage that men have in strength and speed. Only one-fifth of the original benefit is lost due to testosterone suppression.”

An advantage that has to do not only with hormones and testosterone, but with other physical male characteristics. Lundberg: “After puberty, boys are taller and taller, and the difference is so big that in sport you have to have a separate women’s category to create a fair competition. Otherwise women will no longer become champions and they will not win medals.”

‘It does not work’​

Lundberg continues: “Maybe the IOC thought, ‘Let’s see if this works.’ We now have enough data to say, it doesn’t work. From that perspective, their current regulations are not supported by scientific evidence.”

The proposition that the current regulations lead to fair competition between born women and transgender women (born men who now go through life as women) thus seems built on quicksand. “That would be a lie,” said Lundberg. “That’s the issue: inclusion and fairness don’t go together. In the sports world it is either one or the other.”

‘IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition’
Source link ‘IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition’

Spoiler: Dutch Article

Transgenderregels IOC leveren geen eerlijke competitie op​

Er is geen enkel wetenschappelijk bewijs dat de huidige transgenderregelgeving van het Internationaal Olympisch Comité (IOC) deelname van transgenders aan de Olympische Spelen op een eerlijke manier mogelijk maakt. Dat zegt de Zweedse wetenschapper Tommy Lundberg in gesprek met de NOS.
Lundberg werkt voor de medische universiteit van Zweden, die jaarlijks de Nobelprijs voor de fysiologie of geneeskunde uitreikt. "Er zijn botsende belangen. We willen transgender sporters mee laten doen. Maar sport moet een keuze maken tussen inclusiviteit en eerlijkheid. Allebei gaat niet."
De discussie over transgenderdeelname aan de Olympische Spelen is actueel nadat de Nieuw-Zeelandse gewichthefster Laurel Hubbard zich plaatste voor de Olympische Spelen.
Om het mogelijk te maken dat transgenders deel kunnen nemen aan de Olympische Spelen, paste het IOC in 2016 de regels aan. Transmannen die als meisje zijn geboren, mogen zonder beperking meedoen. Transvrouwen, die als jongen zijn geboren, moeten twaalf maanden lang hormoontherapie hebben gevolgd en hun testosteronniveau mag niet boven de tien nanomol per liter uitkomen. Het doel van de regelgeving: een eerlijke competitie creëren.

Nauwelijks effect​

Lundberg deed in 2020 onderzoek naar de invloed van testosteron op de sportprestaties van transgenders. Volgens hem hebben de extra IOC-voorwaarden nauwelijks effect op het prestatieverschil. Hij ziet in studies dat transgenders bijvoorbeeld langer voordeel houden van een hardere strafcorner of een snellere service.

Lundberg: "Er is geen enkel onderzoek waaruit blijkt dat de therapie qua prestatievoordeel verschil maakt. In bijna alle onderzoeken werd de grens van vijf nanomol bereikt, maar bleef het effect op spiermassa en kracht gering."
"Ook de hormoontherapie heeft nauwelijks effect op het wegnemen van het voordeel dat mannen hebben aan kracht en snelheid. Slechts een vijfde van het oorspronkelijke voordeel valt weg door testosterononderdrukking."
Een voordeel dat niet alleen te maken heeft met hormonen en testosteron, maar met andere fysieke mannelijke kenmerken. Lundberg: "Na de pubertijd zijn jongens groter en langer, en dat verschil is zo groot, dat je in de sport een aparte vrouwencategorie moet hebben om een eerlijke competitie te creëren. Anders worden vrouwen geen kampioen meer en winnen ze geen medailles."

'Het werkt niet'​

Lundberg vervolgt: "Misschien heeft het IOC gedacht: 'laten we kijken of dit werkt'. We hebben nu genoeg data in handen om te zeggen: het werkt niet. Vanuit dat perspectief wordt hun huidige regelgeving niet ondersteund door wetenschappelijk bewijs."
De stelling dat de huidige regelgeving leidt tot een eerlijke competitie tussen geboren vrouwen en transgendervrouwen (geboren mannen die nu door het leven gaan als vrouw) lijkt dus gebouwd op drijfzand. "Dat zou een leugen zijn", aldus Lundberg. "Dat is het issue: inclusie en eerlijkheid gaan niet samen. In de sportwereld is het of het een of het ander."

 

[TLEN]

Cant wait for Russia and China to send all thier roided out transgender women to dominate.

Russian athletes will never get disqualified for doping again if they claim that it is part of their HRT. Sasuga woketards.

 

[axfaxf]

If you lower the bar for the tests below what is actually expected in the emergency scenarios these skills are supposed to be used under, the test becomes useless.

Safety equality first imo.

 

[Vulva Gape]

Put trannies in the special olympics. Gender dysphoria is an illness.

 

[JamFlowMan]

Truly fair competition would be if men and women competed in the same events. But then no women would ever compete.

It does make me laugh that not one of these articles even pretends to include woman who think they're men and their plight in sports, because it doesn't fucking exist. That and they're now a man and men are evil except the men who think they're woman who are heroes but not the actual women suffering the same mental illness as the men etc etc.

 

[Calculus]

If you lower the bar for the tests below what is actually expected in the emergency scenarios these skills are supposed to be used under, the test becomes useless.

I'm not saying to lower the tests, I'm saying to make the tests the same as for men and women. Men aren't tested with or expected to act in emergency situations with equipment that is too big for their hands but women are and there's no reason for it to be that way. There's no reason not to make equipment that is 100% usable for both men and women.

I'm guessing men also aren't tested for carrying someone 1.5-2 times their weight, which considering the possible differences in height and weight (including equipment) for men, is not something that cannot occur in emergency situations either.

There's also no reason that a stretcher can't be modified so a man can be carried by more than 2 women. We don't expect a male medic to carry other man by himself because that would be too difficult, yet that would be the optimal requirement in an emergency situation.

 

[Blake Chortles]

I'm not saying to lower the tests, I'm saying to make the tests the same as for men and women. Men aren't tested with or expected to act in emergency situations with equipment that is too big for their hands but women are and there's no reason for it to be that way. There's no reason not the make equipment that is 100% usuable for both men and women.

I'm guessing men also aren't tested for carrying someone 1.5-2 times their weight, which considering the possible differences in height and weight (including equipment) for men, is not something that cannot occur in emergency situations either.

There's also no reason that a stretcher can't be modified so a man can be carried by more than 2 women. We don't expect a male medic to carry other man by himself because that would be too difficult, yet that would be the optimal requirement in an emergency situation.

Who gives a shit if the percentages are the same and all that other bullshit. Its not a competition, its an evaluation of whether the person can perform the job in a test scenario and not find out in a real scenario where someone will die.

The bottom line is they cant perform simple real scenarios that will almost certainly occur, like carrying an injured man, you fucking mong.

 

[Calculus]

Who gives a shit if the percentages are the same and all that other bullshit.

The navy do, that's why the equipment for emergency situations is designed to have a 0% failure rate for who it was developed for.

 

[Snekposter]

I'm not saying to lower the tests, I'm saying to make the tests the same as for men and women. Men aren't tested with or expected to act in emergency situations with equipment that is too big for their hands but women are and there's no reason for it to be that way. There's no reason not the make equipment that is 100% usuable for both men and women.

I'm guessing men also aren't tested for carrying someone 1.5-2 times their weight, which considering the possible differences in height and weight (including equipment) for men, is not something that cannot occur in emergency situations either.

There's also no reason that a stretcher can't be modified so a man can be carried by more than 2 women. We don't expect a male medic to carry other man by himself because that would be too difficult, yet that would be the optimal requirement in an emergency situation.

You're expecting the US Armed Services to buy an entire new line of equipment that is suitable for women to use, and install that along with the heavier-duty and heavier male equipment? You're also doing a terrible job of making the case for women, since a 250 pound emergency water pump is something one or two men can easily manhandle, even into a tight space, and the 2, 3, or even 4 women necessary to carry something like that would struggle to do so effectively since they'd be getting in each other's way. You also can't shrink stuff like that down or you start losing capability, and you really don't want to do that when you're trying to keep water on the outside of a ship's hull.

 

[KiwiFuzz]

blow air in the ass of swimmers

Jet propulsion!!!!!

And as far as the spergery about women in the Navy goes, there's 10% overlap in grip strength between men and women. So the strongest woman can beat the bottom 10% of men in grip.

It's not just a question whether women are as strong as men and muh appropriate tool size and shit like that, women as a class are demonstrably much weaker than men as a class. Not just a little bit weaker, but a lot weaker.

I just went to look up which percent of women fail the pack test for wildland firefighting and I came across this little tidbit:

The average female has 50 to 60 percent of the upper body strength of the average male.

(The article says that women pass the pack test at 85% of the rate for men, but it's a self-selected group so make of this what you will.)

https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d///pubs/pdfpubs/pdf01512840/pdf01512840dpi300.pdf

 

[Snekposter]

And as far as the spergery about women in the Navy goes, there's 10% overlap in grip strength between men and women. So the strongest woman can beat the bottom 10% of men in grip.

Obligatory Monty Python reference if we're getting into gripping capabilities:

"Its not a question of where she grips it. Its a simple question of weight ratios. A 120 pound woman cannot lift a 250 pound water pump!"

 

[Calculus]

You're expecting the US Armed Services to buy an entire new line of equipment that is suitable for women to use, and install that along with the heavier-duty and heavier male equipment? You also can't shrink stuff like that down or you start losing capability, and you really don't want to do that when you're trying to keep water on the outside of a ship's hull.

I don't understand what you all aren't getting. The current equipment is constantly being upgraded and improved upon to suit male needs. There is no reason not to consider female needs.

You're also doing a terrible job of making the case for women, since a 250 pound emergency water pump is something one or two men can easily manhandle, even into a tight space, and the 2, 3, or even 4 women necessary to carry something like that would struggle to do so effectively since they'd be getting in each other's way.

Two men can do it together because they are trained how to cooperate in situations like this. There is no reason not to train women to do the same.

You're also ignoring that women are physically smaller and take up less space than men and will being able to fit better into a tight space. Additionally, three women are not going to take up that much more space than two men.

This the real reason for having women in the forces: they have a different skill set than men and more easier do some tasks (such as crawling in tight spaces) than men can. Women also recover faster than men and can train with a greater frequency, yet men aren't expected to get meet women's abilities for any of these, despite them all being useful in emergency situations. Women can also survive for longer on fewer supplies.

I just went to look up which percent of women fail the pack test for wildland firefighting and I came across this little tidbit:
(The article says that women pass the pack test at 85% of the rate for men, but it's a self-selected group so make of this what you will.)
https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d///pubs/pdfpubs/pdf01512840/pdf01512840dpi300.pdf

Again, this because packs are designed for male muscle distribution and not female ones. Women have more lower body strength proportionally. There's no reason not to design packs that take advantage of that or can be worn either way. Current packs look the way they do as they are designed around male bodies.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

You're expecting the US Armed Services to buy an entire new line of equipment that is suitable for women to use, and install that along with the heavier-duty and heavier male equipment? You're also doing a terrible job of making the case for women, since a 250 pound emergency water pump is something one or two men can easily manhandle, even into a tight space, and the 2, 3, or even 4 women necessary to carry something like that would struggle to do so effectively since they'd be getting in each other's way. You also can't shrink stuff like that down or you start losing capability, and you really don't want to do that when you're trying to keep water on the outside of a ship's hull.

The point being made is why is the emergency pump difficult to handle? Swap the cast iron out for aluminum and it would be portable. Put in a separate chain hoist on the overhead I-beam to pick it. Mount some casters on it.

The reason it is unmanageable is because of the old standards. There is plenty of shit on a ship that men can't handle either but they developed gear and methods to shuffle it around. They haven't gotten around to that for women yet. They should, if only because refining gear so that it can be handled quickly with fewer staff or weaker staff is a good thing. People get hurt in war. Having some guy who lost some fingers still be able to do damage control duties ain't a bad thing.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

(((Germans)))

Pretty sure the OG experimenters weren't of that persuasion.

 

[Calculus]

"Its not a question of where she grips it. Its a simple question of weight ratios. A 120 pound woman cannot lift a 250 pound water pump!"

No one is saying that? But it's never occured to you why a water pump is that shape and weight? A water pump is not some naturally occuring resource than can only be that size, weight, and design.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

The point being made is why is the emergency pump difficult to handle? Swap the cast iron out for aluminum and it would be portable.

Sure. Hell, why not make it out of plastic or even balsa wood?

Why is cast iron best suited for the manufacturing of pumps?

Cast iron is preferred for various purposes including manufacturing of a range of pumps. It includes Corrosion resistance, Maximum temperature limit and Coefficient of thermal expansion.

www.calmet.com

Pumps also need to be of a certain minimum size in order to be able to handle a given flow rate. They're not like computers, where they can just be shrunk down to fit into your pocket.

 

[KiwiFuzz]

Again, this because packs are designed for male muscle distribution and not female ones. Women have more lower body strength proportionally. There's no reason not to design packs that take advantage of that or can be worn either way. Current packs look the way they do as they are designed around male bodies.

"Pack Test - This is a job-related test to determine an individual’s ability to perform the minimum standards of arduous duty. It consists of completing a 3-mile walk over level terrain in 45 minutes or less while carrying a 45-pound pack."

Even with the weight situated on top of the hips, that sounds like a bad time and something that the average woman pulled off the street could not do, full stop.

If a particularly buff woman thinks that sounds like a good time, godspeed to her. But wildland firefighting is 90% male and will be until the heat death of the sun because most women do not have the strength for it and putting a woman out there on the fire lines who is going to poop out on day 2 puts her and her crew at risk.

Why are you so damn determined to argue that true and honest women are as strong as men, and if they're not, various modifications should be made to universal equipment used by tens of thousands of men so that a handful of women could probably technically haul someone's ass out of a fire?

Not everything is sexism.

Women are not as strong as men are and that's okay.

And edit to POWERLEVEL: I own a firefighting pump and it's 52 pounds fully loaded. What fun!

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Sure. Hell, why not make it out of plastic or even balsa wood?

Why is cast iron best suited for the manufacturing of pumps?

Cast iron is preferred for various purposes including manufacturing of a range of pumps. It includes Corrosion resistance, Maximum temperature limit and Coefficient of thermal expansion.

www.calmet.com

Pumps also need to be of a certain minimum size in order to be able to handle a given flow rate. They're not like computers, where they can just be shrunk down to fit into your pocket.

For permanent fixtures. We are talking portable units. Plastic and aluminum are pretty common for them. Ever used a Banjo self-priming centrifugal pump?

 

[Grapefruit Soda]

Men and women natural being built different is a hard concept for some people i guess, no organization is gonna make a completely different set of tools just so some 110 pound woman can fail to compete against the 190 pound man. Which is why men shouldn't be competing in female sports.

If you cant put your tiny hands around a barbell, you should either wait till you grow up, or kill yourself in minecraft.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I don't know if this shit will fly. White people can get assraped and will thanks the attacker for burritos, but I can picture Asian or Sheboong just plain out stabbing the trans athlete post victory.

 

[Les Morfalous]

There is no reason not to consider female needs.

Redesign me a jerrycan, or a tanker bar.Or make it so a woman can drag a casualty trough the driver's hatch.Redesign me a drive sprocket that doesn't weigh 50 kilos, but also doesn't disintegrate from having to pull a 20 ton vehicle.Design me smaller roadwheels, but still keep the ground pressure bellow 0.8kilos per square centimetre.Armies are not just about carrying backpacks - sometimes you gotta dig trenches too.