Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
I keep hearing this but I have no clue how it even happens. How does any grown-ass adult end up in a position where they don't have a social circle of friends that keep inviting them to get-togethers, parties, weddings (Jesus christ so many weddings) and other assorted events on the regular? I'm actively trying to be a recluse most days and I still find myself dragged into way too many things by annoying and lovable friends/family/acquaintances.

Legit asking, how do people end up with none of that by their mid-20s/30s/40s? I just don't see it, but at the same time there's enough people bitching online about it that it has to be a thing, at least on some level. But how? Are you people actively burning bridges and making pariahs of yourselves?
Consider this, it's not just a matter of not obtaining a friend group by a certain age, but people losing them and not being able to make new friends when they're older. Happened to me personally, had a major even fracture my friend group. I still hang out with some of them like once a month, but considering I work a 9-5 and have a girlfriend there is little time or motivation to go meet new people. If I lost my last few friends I'd probably just not make anymore. Frankly I can't even remember the last time I made a friend, I've known all my current friends since high school or earlier.
 
Now this... I agree this is a real problem.
Take cheer, because a good chunk of women's friendships are secret enemies, so at least the sexes are probably equally miserable.

I keep hearing this but I have no clue how it even happens. How does any grown-ass adult end up in a position where they don't have a social circle of friends that keep inviting them to get-togethers, parties, weddings (Jesus christ so many weddings) and other assorted events on the regular? I'm actively trying to be a recluse most days and I still find myself dragged into way too many things by annoying and lovable friends/family/acquaintances.

Legit asking, how do people end up with none of that by their mid-20s/30s/40s? I just don't see it, but at the same time there's enough people bitching online about it that it has to be a thing, at least on some level. But how? Are you people actively burning bridges and making pariahs of yourselves?
This sounds retarded unless you never moved (which is a lot of people). If you move away for graduate school or work then you don't have friends around you to hang out with, you may get invited to major life events sure, but that doesn't sustain the soul by itself. (I see my friends from college about three times a year.) Every time you move you have to build a new social circle, except that gets harder, not easier, with age. I mean, people get more tolerant as they get older so just getting along with people is easier, but not actually befriending them.

I heard it described once as that, as a proper working adult, it's hard to get through the hundreds of hours of aimless hanging out that builds one of those schoolday/college friends.
Consider this, it's not just a matter of not obtaining a friend group by a certain age, but people losing them and not being able to make new friends when they're older. Happened to me personally, had a major even fracture my friend group. I still hang out with some of them like once a month, but considering I work a 9-5 and have a girlfriend there is little time or motivation to go meet new people. If I lost my last few friends I'd probably just not make anymore. Frankly I can't even remember the last time I made a friend, I've known all my current friends since high school or earlier.
In my environment I feel like my immediate coworkers are mostly disgusting shitheads and the broader population around me too young and different from my experience to fit in. At this point I feel like I just need to give up.
 
Last edited:
I keep hearing this but I have no clue how it even happens. How does any grown-ass adult end up in a position where they don't have a social circle of friends that keep inviting them to get-togethers, parties, weddings (Jesus christ so many weddings) and other assorted events on the regular? I'm actively trying to be a recluse most days and I still find myself dragged into way too many things by annoying and lovable friends/family/acquaintances.

First of all, you need to start to understand concepts like theory of mind.

Your brain vessel alone, though it has stood you in good stead, is not capable of understanding all the other brain vessels out there and the myriad of ways they interact.. You're an intelligent guy. Just not 'big-brained' enough to understand these universal concepts. It's why you're here. It's why I and people like me try to teach you.

It's not hard to fall through the cracks, for decades at a time. Some never make their way back. These are the men that drink themselves to death. Not vicious or gangster enough to go out and take, they turn their frustration inwards. Better to kill yourself than others. Because this kind of loneliness does cause a rage. Some men (it's usually men, women don't experience loneliness in the same way men do) crack completely and will target young kids. Some call them pedophiles, but 'pedophiles' is more a taxonomy to describe them. It's not accurate. These men want to cause destruction upon the society that has shunned them at every level. They are many. But few act out, thankfully.

And part of their frustration is the attitude of 'lol how hard can it be just grill go meet people make friends, loser'. It pushes them further outside of their boundaries. Yes, these men are losers. Takers of the short straw. But they aren't inherently more flawed than the next man who cheats on his wife with cheap whores, all the while, having kids in school, that he will lose, when wifey finds out about his sordid affairs and is so affronted that she quite simply can not carry on.

While men can keep sexual value through the later years, it is mainly through status and money. Women keep it no matter what. There is also a thing for older women and that is why you see 85 year old whores on instagram and onlyfans and your local craigslist. Young men, even 18 year olds love to fuck old geriatric women. Not all of them, granted, but more than 18 year old women want to fuck even a 35 year old male. Females select much more aggressively for age. Sure, she will take the 55 year old breadwinner with a yacht, if he's in good shape, but given the choice...

Anyway, this is getting too far off track, forgive me.

Suffice to say, as a man in his later years, it's very fucking easy to fall by the wayside and just become a thing everyone ignores and avoids. Friendship is pretty much out of the question as well, because well -adjusted men in that range are rare. The loneliness makes you crazy. The despair and the isolation makes you mad. And with every year it gets worse. And every male you encounter in the same age range, you know, has faced the same difficulties. So it's hard for even men themselves to bond at that point. And there's no way older women with families will take a risk. You are pretty much fucked if your age range starts with a '5' - you had best neck yourself, because this is all your life will ever be, apart from some serious embarrassments where you try to make friends. You only need to do that once or twice, before the inevitable.

The strong and the brave, take the rope. The weak and the pensive, take a drink.

There are no heroes among men in this age range.

Still, either way is an honourable way out. To cause carnage or to murder or to rape or to sow mayhem because of your inner rage/frustration - well that is still for the weaker men.

Some of us find a happy medium. We were never Alpha Males to start with. We find comfort where we can, perhaps in looking after older relatives. We know we will die alone. As we have lived for the past many decades. And for those of us that got to fuck super-models and to take the pick of the female of the species, when we were in our prime, well, that contains its own particular bitter-sweet blend of nostalgia, as well.

But don't cry too much for these men, the hollow men, those that have fallen through the cracks of life.

Because sometimes they get the band back together, falling back on their better grace - never giving in to bitterness - they learn to win the day with whatever they have at their disposal.

Though it's rare.
 
First of all, you need to start to understand concepts like theory of mind.
Just letting you know before I read all of this that if I can't reverse-search it as a copypasta on Google I'm giving you a hat.

ETA: You absolute madlad.
 
I keep hearing this but I have no clue how it even happens. How does any grown-ass adult end up in a position where they don't have a social circle of friends that keep inviting them to get-togethers, parties, weddings (Jesus christ so many weddings) and other assorted events on the regular? I'm actively trying to be a recluse most days and I still find myself dragged into way too many things by annoying and lovable friends/family/acquaintances.

First of all, you need to start to understand concepts like theory of mind.

Your brain vessel alone, though it has stood you in good stead, is not capable of understanding all the other brain vessels out there and the myriad of ways they interact.. You're an intelligent guy. Just not 'big-brained' enough to understand these universal concepts. It's why you're here. It's why I and people like me try to teach you.

It's not hard to fall through the cracks, for decades at a time. Some never make their way back. These are the men that drink themselves to death. Not vicious or gangster enough to go out and take, they turn their frustration inwards. Better to kill yourself than others. Because this kind of loneliness does cause a rage. Some men (it's usually men, women don't experience loneliness in the same way men do) crack completely and will target young kids. Some call them pedophiles, but 'pedophiles' is more a taxonomy to describe them. It's not accurate. These men want to cause destruction upon the society that has shunned them at every level. They are many. But few act out, thankfully.

And part of their frustration is the attitude of 'lol how hard can it be just grill go meet people make friends, loser'. It pushes them further outside of their boundaries. Yes, these men are losers. Takers of the short straw. But they aren't inherently more flawed than the next man who cheats on his wife with cheap whores, all the while, having kids in school, that he will lose, when wifey finds out about his sordid affairs and is so affronted that she quite simply can not carry on.

While men can keep sexual value through the later years, it is mainly through status and money. Women keep it no matter what. There is also a thing for older women and that is why you see 85 year old whores on instagram and onlyfans and your local craigslist. Young men, even 18 year olds love to fuck old geriatric women. Not all of them, granted, but more than 18 year old women want to fuck even a 35 year old male. Females select much more aggressively for age. Sure, she will take the 55 year old breadwinner with a yacht, if he's in good shape, but given the choice...

Anyway, this is getting too far off track, forgive me.

Suffice to say, as a man in his later years, it's very fucking easy to fall by the wayside and just become a thing everyone ignores and avoids. Friendship is pretty much out of the question as well, because well -adjusted men in that range are rare. The loneliness makes you crazy. The despair and the isolation makes you mad. And with every year it gets worse. And every male you encounter in the same age range, you know, has faced the same difficulties. So it's hard for even men themselves to bond at that point. And there's no way older women with families will take a risk. You are pretty much fucked if your age range starts with a '5' - you had best neck yourself, because this is all your life will ever be, apart from some serious embarrassments where you try to make friends. You only need to do that once or twice, before the inevitable.

The strong and the brave, take the rope. The weak and the pensive, take a drink.

There are no heroes among men in this age range.

Still, either way is an honourable way out. To cause carnage or to murder or to rape or to sow mayhem because of your inner rage/frustration - well that is still for the weaker men.

Some of us find a happy medium. We were never Alpha Males to start with. We find comfort where we can, perhaps in looking after older relatives. We know we will die alone. As we have lived for the past many decades. And for those of us that got to fuck super-models and to take the pick of the female of the species, when we were in our prime, well, that contains its own particular bitter-sweet blend of nostalgia, as well.

But don't cry too much for these men, the hollow men, those that have fallen through the cracks of life.

Because sometimes they get the band back together, falling back on their better grace - never giving in to bitterness - they learn to win the day with whatever they have at their disposal.

Though it's rare.
Wtf are you talking about????
 
I keep hearing this but I have no clue how it even happens. How does any grown-ass adult end up in a position where they don't have a social circle of friends that keep inviting them to get-togethers, parties, weddings (Jesus christ so many weddings) and other assorted events on the regular? I'm actively trying to be a recluse most days and I still find myself dragged into way too many things by annoying and lovable friends/family/acquaintances.

First of all, you need to start to understand concepts like theory of mind.

Your brain vessel alone, though it has stood you in good stead, is not capable of understanding all the other brain vessels out there and the myriad of ways they interact.. You're an intelligent guy. Just not 'big-brained' enough to understand these universal concepts. It's why you're here. It's why I and people like me try to teach you.

It's not hard to fall through the cracks, for decades at a time. Some never make their way back. These are the men that drink themselves to death. Not vicious or gangster enough to go out and take, they turn their frustration inwards. Better to kill yourself than others. Because this kind of loneliness does cause a rage. Some men (it's usually men, women don't experience loneliness in the same way men do) crack completely and will target young kids. Some call them pedophiles, but 'pedophiles' is more a taxonomy to describe them. It's not accurate. These men want to cause destruction upon the society that has shunned them at every level. They are many. But few act out, thankfully.

And part of their frustration is the attitude of 'lol how hard can it be just grill go meet people make friends, loser'. It pushes them further outside of their boundaries. Yes, these men are losers. Takers of the short straw. But they aren't inherently more flawed than the next man who cheats on his wife with cheap whores, all the while, having kids in school, that he will lose, when wifey finds out about his sordid affairs and is so affronted that she quite simply can not carry on.

While men can keep sexual value through the later years, it is mainly through status and money. Women keep it no matter what. There is also a thing for older women and that is why you see 85 year old whores on instagram and onlyfans and your local craigslist. Young men, even 18 year olds love to fuck old geriatric women. Not all of them, granted, but more than 18 year old women want to fuck even a 35 year old male. Females select much more aggressively for age. Sure, she will take the 55 year old breadwinner with a yacht, if he's in good shape, but given the choice...

Anyway, this is getting too far off track, forgive me.

Suffice to say, as a man in his later years, it's very fucking easy to fall by the wayside and just become a thing everyone ignores and avoids. Friendship is pretty much out of the question as well, because well -adjusted men in that range are rare. The loneliness makes you crazy. The despair and the isolation makes you mad. And with every year it gets worse. And every male you encounter in the same age range, you know, has faced the same difficulties. So it's hard for even men themselves to bond at that point. And there's no way older women with families will take a risk. You are pretty much fucked if your age range starts with a '5' - you had best neck yourself, because this is all your life will ever be, apart from some serious embarrassments where you try to make friends. You only need to do that once or twice, before the inevitable.

The strong and the brave, take the rope. The weak and the pensive, take a drink.

There are no heroes among men in this age range.

Still, either way is an honourable way out. To cause carnage or to murder or to rape or to sow mayhem because of your inner rage/frustration - well that is still for the weaker men.

Some of us find a happy medium. We were never Alpha Males to start with. We find comfort where we can, perhaps in looking after older relatives. We know we will die alone. As we have lived for the past many decades. And for those of us that got to fuck super-models and to take the pick of the female of the species, when we were in our prime, well, that contains its own particular bitter-sweet blend of nostalgia, as well.

But don't cry too much for these men, the hollow men, those that have fallen through the cracks of life.

Because sometimes they get the band back together, falling back on their better grace - never giving in to bitterness - they learn to win the day with whatever they have at their disposal.

Though it's rare.
Allow me to coin a new term for the farms. Manifestoposting.

That said, stop manifestoposting and be yourself.
 
Interesting stuff there, @K-Hole. There's a lot there that I could've picked at (that hot take about pedophiles is worth a string pulling I think and I'm sure we'll cycle back to it later), but in the spirit of debate and because I almost forgot what subforum I'm in, I'll ask about this one:

While men can keep sexual value through the later years, it is mainly through status and money. Women keep it no matter what. There is also a thing for older women and that is why you see 85 year old whores on instagram and onlyfans and your local craigslist. Young men, even 18 year olds love to fuck old geriatric women. Not all of them, granted, but more than 18 year old women want to fuck even a 35 year old male. Females select much more aggressively for age. Sure, she will take the 55 year old breadwinner with a yacht, if he's in good shape, but given the choice...
I'm pretty sure I disagree with everything you've said in this paragraph. Nobody like the geriatric old women, not even geriatric old men. I've never seen any 18 year old guys dating/fucking women way more senior than they are. And yet the opposite, the 18 year old women dating much older men "because he's so much more mature than the boys I know" is basically a meme at this point. Sure, the 18-35 thing is a bit too creepy to see commonly out in the world, but I've for damn sure seen women in their mid-20s in relationships with guys in their mid-to-late 30s.

I emphatically don't agree with you that women select more aggressively for age than men do, and even if I did I certainly wouldn't agree that they do it in the "younger is better" direction.
 
Does involuntary celibacy extend to couples? I know of examples where sexually active people are involved with primarily asexual people. Sometimes it's a problem and sometimes one isn't satisfied with the state of things. Sex can sometimes feel like an obligation to a partner who is primarily asexual. Sometimes they can only enjoy it on their terms.
 
Interesting stuff there, @K-Hole. There's a lot there that I could've picked at (that hot take about pedophiles is worth a string pulling I think and I'm sure we'll cycle back to it later), but in the spirit of debate and because I almost forgot what subforum I'm in, I'll ask about this one:


I'm pretty sure I disagree with everything you've said in this paragraph. Nobody like the geriatric old women, not even geriatric old men. I've never seen any 18 year old guys dating/fucking women way more senior than they are. And yet the opposite, the 18 year old women dating much older men "because he's so much more mature than the boys I know" is basically a meme at this point. Sure, the 18-35 thing is a bit too creepy to see commonly out in the world, but I've for damn sure seen women in their mid-20s in relationships with guys in their mid-to-late 30s.

I emphatically don't agree with you that women select more aggressively for age than men do, and even if I did I certainly wouldn't agree that they do it in the "younger is better" direction.
I don't wholly agree with K-hole but he's right about cougars being much more socially acceptable than older men who seek out younger partners.
 
Does involuntary celibacy extend to couples? I know of examples where sexually active people are involved with primarily asexual people. Sometimes it's a problem and sometimes one isn't satisfied with the state of things. Sex can sometimes feel like an obligation to a partner who is primarily asexual. Sometimes they can only enjoy it on their terms.
It should, but the word has been bastardised to just mean "ugly guy who can't get laid".
 
Does involuntary celibacy extend to couples? I know of examples where sexually active people are involved with primarily asexual people. Sometimes it's a problem and sometimes one isn't satisfied with the state of things. Sex can sometimes feel like an obligation to a partner who is primarily asexual. Sometimes they can only enjoy it on their terms.
I don't want to get too engrossed in my personals here, but yes, this definitely can extend to couples and is currently an active problem in my own relationship. The hardest problem about this specific sort of problem is the fact that men (at least in my partner's case) value sex as the ultimate way that they are considered "attractive". So if we're not knocking boots more often, he takes that more personally and assumes that I have no love/attraction towards him, which isn't true whatsoever, but it's just how his mindset works.

All in all it's a frustrating equation to try and solve.
 
Is it wrong to get slightly blackpilled about relationships when you've just about fucked yourself in every possible way from adolescence onward? At this point, I think I've workaholic'd my way through all the key moments you're supposed to develop flirting and relationship skills to a degree that it's completely foreign to me. My social skills aren't amazing, but I have a decent amount of friends and get along with my family and coworkers, but when it comes to meeting women, I just feel a deep apathy for anyone I meet or match with on apps. I don't really want to sympathize with the manosphere, but when you never really developed that "spark" for someone, it's so hard not to feel like you're constantly missing out on a fulfilling human experience and it gets really frustrating after awhile.

I think the broad nature of the internet can really screw with people in unintended ways because some of us end up with a general interest in a lot of things, but a dedicated interest in nothing. Instead of refining yourself and standing out in a specific way, you have to find other masters-of-none to relate to, which means your hobbies look more like a laundry list instead of a meaningful aspect of your life. You can type out that you're interested in video games, movies, TV, history, working out, etc. but unless you have enough to say on any of those topics, conversations just peter out and it's back to the grind.

This was autistic as fuck, I'm sorry. I just don't really have anywhere else to vent this sort of thing.

Look up John Anthony Lifestyle on YouTube, he's the only PUA who's been able to help low-looks incels
 
Wasn't he recently outed in some scandal?

Apparently rival dating companies wanna take him down.
I believe him, purely because he got me laid with 8 different chicks + (without power levelling too much) he got me a hot girl and we liked each other genuinely for the first time in my life, so I can say for sure his shit works.

Again, without powerlevelling, I'm a short indian guy. He also got a guy in a wheelchair laid + other short asian guys, so I really think he's the real deal, his pickup systems are so logical I honestly believe a 5'2 asian retard could get laid using his shit.
 
Apparently rival dating companies wanna take him down.
I believe him, purely because he got me laid with 8 different chicks + (without power levelling too much) he got me a hot girl and we liked each other genuinely for the first time in my life, so I can say for sure his shit works.

Again, without powerlevelling, I'm a short indian guy. He also got a guy in a wheelchair laid + other short asian guys, so I really think he's the real deal, his pickup systems are so logical I honestly believe a 5'2 asian retard could get laid using his shit.
That's fine those "methods" worked but at the end of the day it's simply partaking in this modern hookup culture. If you find value in casual sex, more power to you. There's really no difference between paying a pua snake oil salesman vs paying a hooker for a night. For those who want something deeper and lasting, pua roaches are the last people to look up to.
 
That's fine those "methods" worked but at the end of the day it's simply partaking in this modern hookup culture. If you find value in casual sex, more power to you. There's really no difference between paying a pua snake oil salesman vs paying a hooker for a night. For those who want something deeper and lasting, pua roaches are the last people to look up to.

I disagree I foudn a really meaningful connection with a girl using cold approach. each to their own tho
 
Actual retard.

Prove me wrong, tell me more about this special method. Does it involve John Anthony Lifestyle on YouTube personally dialing you a hooker?

Why would I tell you the method when ur clearly not open minded lol, that'd be like a Muslim trying to convince an atheist that Allah is real.

I told u the method has worked for me personally, if you choose not to be open minded to it then thats your choice
 
I keep hearing this but I have no clue how it even happens. How does any grown-ass adult end up in a position where they don't have a social circle of friends that keep inviting them to get-togethers, parties, weddings (Jesus christ so many weddings) and other assorted events on the regular? I'm actively trying to be a recluse most days and I still find myself dragged into way too many things by annoying and lovable friends/family/acquaintances.

Legit asking, how do people end up with none of that by their mid-20s/30s/40s? I just don't see it, but at the same time there's enough people bitching online about it that it has to be a thing, at least on some level. But how? Are you people actively burning bridges and making pariahs of yourselves?
Late twenties. I moved 9 hours after college for a job. Don't use social media. I'm doing fine for friends, but that's because I went out of my way to get them. Problem is they're all male, all 10+ years older than me, and mostly married.
It doesn't translate to meeting women.
Edit: I think my problem is different than a lot of guys here. There's probably 4 or 5 separate problems that would be minor on their own that lead to the "incel" crisis.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom