I dont get why so many hate anime?

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Japan apparently has a culture where they don't value originality, but actually consider it a good thing if something is derivative because that's "respecting tradition" or the Monomyth or whatever.
what's funny tho is capeshit is the literal definition of regurgitating derivative slop, down to re-using the same fucking characters for decades. how many different versions of spiderman are there now, let alone when you go beyond comics?

anime/manga might be sticking closer to it's tropes (out of demand and other reasons), but compared to capeshit/disneyslop (if they didn't "re-imagine" european folklore) it's outright innovative.
 
This is really just how stories and shit work in general, which is why things like the "heroes journey" thing came into being as a descriptor of a really common story structure.
See though, a good writer thinks "why?"

Let's imagine a conversation between Good Writer and Bad Writer:

EDIT - Okay, actually I feel like I fucked up here. The fake convo I had scripted out doesn't really demonstrate "bad" writing, it just demonstrates clashing artistic styles. I'll post the revision in a different post below and put the original behind a spoiler.

GW: Okay, so the character, an old west cowboy who came to New York because of a time vortex, happens upon bank robbers..

BW: He steps out in front of them and twirls his guns!

GW: Huh? Why would he do that?

BW: Because its COOL!

GW: Why not shoot from cover while he's got the advantage?

BW: .... Huh.... okay....

GW: Okay, so he shoots from cover, hits one but misses the other, and then the other grabs a hostage--

BW: And then the gunfighter jumps 100 feet into the air and unloads an entire clip into the dude's skull!

GW: What? Dude he's an old west gunfighter, why can he jump 100 feet into the air? When did that happen?

BW: Its a comic book hero, they can all do that!

GW: That's not how it works dude. You can't just say "he can do it because everyone else can." At that point he might as well be Superman and there's no point to him being an old west gunfighter.

BW: Fine.... but he does unload a full clip, right?

GW: Why would he do that? That's just wasting ammunition. Actually I thought an arc might be him running low because his guns are so old and ammo for them might not be manufactured anymore....

BW: Whatever. Anyway, so he saves the hostage... who is the hostage?

GW: I was thinking a little kid, because that makes the hero more sympathetic.

BW: Why not a hot buxom adult reporter lady, who immediately wants to jump his bones?

GW: .... Why are you even on this project? Please go write your horny self-insert fanfiction and stop messing up my story.

Notice how "Good Writer" is actually thinking things through but "Bad Writer" is only thinking about what would be cool or awesome and fuck all else.

I will concede though that yeah, this kind of stuff is universal. I only notice it in anime more because I still actually watch anime. I don't read capeshit. At least anime's regurgitated slop is pleasant to look at and has good music usually.
 
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GW: Huh? Why would he do that?

BW: Because its COOL!
"because it's cool" mixed with western logic is how you get incredibly powerful cool men like injun joe.
 
"because it's cool" mixed with western logic is how you get incredibly powerful cool men like injun joe.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=t7IYiCFKGYQ
Okay I always knew "Injun Joe" as the villain from Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer. Who the heck is this?

Actually rethinking that conversation, the problem is more that GW and BW have differing writing philosophies and in this case they're clashing--GW wants the story to be more grounded and BW wants to go balls to the wall. Which is fine but they probably should not be working on the same story together.

A better way to do that would've been to have GW be a guy who is actually thinking through the actions, while BW is just going to TV Tropes and pointing at random tropes and coming up with some Trope Word Salad and saying "that should be our plot!"

EDIT - Okay so here's a revised version.

GW: Okay, so we start with a character, I wanna do a story about an old west gunslinger who gets transported to modern day, but I'm having trouble coming up with an opening scene...

BW: Okay, maybe he happens on a bank robbery? That's a classic western scenario.

GW: You know what? That actually works. It would also be a sort of "some things don't change" thing. So okay, he sees bank robbers come out, they don't look like the kind from his day but the scenario is close enough that he knows what's going on....

BW: He steps out in front of them and twirls his guns!

GW: Huh? Why would he do that?

BW: Because that's how you establish your hero is a cool kick-ass no-nonsense kinda guy, he goes out and acts all smirky and does impractical twirling and makes a one-liner...

GW: But then the bad guys would just shoot him and he'd die and the story is over.

BW: No, see, because bad guys always just stand there like idiots!

GW: No, dude, that's retarded. Besides, people in the west didn't act like that, that's how someone raised on anime would act.

BW: ... So?

GW: To me it makes more sense that he would shoot from cover while he has the element of surprise.

BW: .... Huh.... okay....

GW: Okay, so he shoots from cover, hits one but misses the other. The other knows where our gunman is now.

BW: Huh? Why?

GW: Dude, if your friend gets hit by a bullet coming from the left, obviously the shooter must be to the left.

BW: How can he tell though?

GW: ... Dude, the impact. The bullet hitting his friend would cause his friend to jerk in the opposite direction. Just like if you punched me right now.

BW: ... Oh, cool, I did not know that.

GW: Okay, so.... I feel like the remaining bad guy just hiding isn't dramatic enough...

BW: What if suddenly ten unmarked cars pull up?

GW: What?

BW: And then guys in suits with tommyguns start firing on our western gunman, but then he jumps a hundred feet into the air and headshots them all--

GW: Okay, wait, dude. First, where are all these unmarked cars from?

BW: Does it matter? Stories always have just random bad guys come out of nowhere. They're called mooks.

GW: That makes no sense tho, why would some random ass bank robber have a bunch of goons working for him? If he has these goons why weren't they already here helping him rob the bank?

BW: Dude, you're overthinking this. Just let go and have fun.

GW: No, you're underthinking this. If we can't come up with a story justification, then no goons. Besides, I wanted the gunslinger having to deal with ammo be an element of the story and that's defeated if he's able to waste an army in his first outing. We've already drawn six-shooters.

BW: Fine, no goons.

GW: Okay, but also, why can he jump a hundred feet into the air? This is an old west gunslinger, not Superman.

BW: Dude, everyone in anime can do that. Even normal college students.

GW: This isn't an anime.

BW: Dude, TV Tropes says there's a thing called "Acceptable Breaks From Reality." This is one of those.

GW: Its very conditional. That trope doesn't mean you can just go Looney Tunes whenever you want. I want this to be a grounded story.

BW: I don't see what the problem is. If other people can do it, so can we!

GW: Dude...

BW: Speaking of, we should introduce a hostage, like a buxom young lady to be the love interest.

GW: ... You know what? Every once in awhile you latch onto something. We do need to introduce the lead lady. Might as well do it here. Bank robber guy uses her as a hostage and cowboy saves her.

BW: So why were you okay with that trope but not the others?

GW: Because that trope made sense within the context of the story I want to tell and could be organically incorporated. The others were just you saying "other stories did this, therefore we should too!"
 
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Perfect example of what I'm talking about, Violet Evergarden, an anime about a cyborg soldier with ptsd returning home from a 4 year war, sounds intresting right?

The catch being that the cyborg soldier with ptsd is a 12 year old girl, because the average anime fan won't watch something unless they can imagine themselves fucking the protagonist or being the protagonist.
It's a show about a child soldier having mental problems after witnessing the horrors of war, a subject no Western author will touch. The child soldier is a child. Imagine that.

A lot of the hate seems to come from people like this retard very smart and no doubt handsome poster who can't conceive that the vast majority of anime is intended for foreign teenagers. See for example this handsome genius complaining that Violet Evergarden -- a show for 14 year-olds -- has a 14-year-old main character. Complaining that the main character of a show for teenagers is also a teenager is about as dumb as it gets, but it's pretty common because a lot of people like this have this weird mental block where they can only conceive of anime being made specifically for adults. So they judge it by the standards adults should use to judge the fiction they consume, and of course most anime falls short of that.
 
what's funny tho is capeshit is the literal definition of regurgitating derivative slop, down to re-using the same fucking characters for decades. how many different versions of spiderman are there now, let alone when you go beyond comics?

anime/manga might be sticking closer to it's tropes (out of demand and other reasons), but compared to capeshit/disneyslop (if they didn't "re-imagine" european folklore) it's outright innovative.
Why do weebs always have to go "at least it's not capeshit!" as if all media is either pop culture slop or doesn't exist? Why not compare anime to other media made for a similar audience? You judge like for like and capeshit is only comparable to shounen anime.

A lot of the hate seems to come from people like this retard very smart and no doubt handsome poster who can't conceive that the vast majority of anime is intended for foreign teenagers. See for example this handsome genius complaining that Violet Evergarden -- a show for 14 year-olds -- has a 14-year-old main character
You're so smart you missed that the problem is it's 14 year old girl so the audience wants to fuck her. You could tell a very good story about a 14 year old child soldier having to come home and deal with PTSD. But that story has to be done respectfully to have any meaning to it. Making it a marketable waifu to sell is disrespectful to the concept and shows it's about making money off of the otaku market. You don't find many female child soldiers because they have a vagina, something far more valuable than another pair of hands holding a gun. When groups raid schools for children to enslave the boys are slaughtered or sent into battle, while the girls are kept as sex slaves to breed more soldiers and act as a reward for the boy soldiers. That is what you're dealing with when you try to tell a story like this and instead the main character looks like that Saber chick and they're selling models of her looking like every other otaku bait woman.

Anime can do deep and respectful stories. But it's overrun with otaku pandering where there's no respect, only commercial designs made to masturbate to.
 
You're so smart you missed that the problem is it's 14 year old girl so the audience wants to fuck her.
Honestly, after looking up the trailer I couldn't see this argument anymore. The character in question isn't even drawn particularly sexy, so if this is coomerbait then so is literally any story ever that features a reasonably attractive woman, regardless of handling of subject matter.
 
You're so smart you missed that the problem is it's 14 year old girl so the audience wants to fuck her. You could tell a very good story about a 14 year old child soldier having to come home and deal with PTSD. But that story has to be done respectfully to have any meaning to it. Making it a marketable waifu to sell is disrespectful to the concept and shows it's about making money off of the otaku market. You don't find many female child soldiers because they have a vagina, something far more valuable than another pair of hands holding a gun. When groups raid schools for children to enslave the boys are slaughtered or sent into battle, while the girls are kept as sex slaves to breed more soldiers and act as a reward for the boy soldiers. That is what you're dealing with when you try to tell a story like this and instead the main character looks like that Saber chick and they're selling models of her looking like every other otaku bait woman.
Violet Evergarden is a sexless show with no fanservice to speak of. If the point of making Violet female was to induce a male audience to want to fuck her and sell the story on sex appeal, they didn't do a very good job. If I had to guess why they actually made her female, I'd guess that it's because the author and illustrator of the original novels were women, and female authors often write about female characters, because that's what they can relate to. So I think it's probably a 14-year-old girl because the author wanted to tell a story about a 14-year-old girl overcoming trauma by writing letters for people. Then the novel sold well and won a bunch of awards, and Kyoto Animation decided to adapt it into an anime. Then the anime did well and won a bunch of awards, and they realized they could make money selling figures of the main character to people who liked the show.

As for the child soldier thing, you also don't find many completely functional robot hands capable of writing on a typewriter in the modern world, let alone in 1940s Europe. If you're willing to suspend your disbelief about the functional robot hands but think the story is somehow disrespectful to its own subject matter because the girl's backstory doesn't touch enough on real-world horrors like child rape, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think the character needs to be a Rwandan boy with a thousand-yard stare and a sister who's a breeding sow for the story to be serious enough for a teenager. Perhaps you disagree.
 
Okay I always knew "Injun Joe" as the villain from Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer. Who the heck is this?
Looney tunes had like 2 or 3 characters named injun joe that were likely named after the tom sawyer guy without being him.The one in this animation is part of an a cartoon that's a partial remake of one that came out years before it. Like a year or 2 back when the 80s treasure island cartoon had a resurgance in pupularity due to showing up in memes injun joe was also experiencing a kind of similar comeback. Partly because him and dr. livesy have like the same kind of build of scrawny legs and massive torso and arms and do unhinged tier feats. Then again injun joe's are infinitely more high powered with him doing shit like casually splitting a mountain by walking through it.
 
I could rag on about pedo bait and stuff and its something I agree with.

This sounds very autistic, but some people enjoy things for the wrong reasons.
I know people who used to absolutely despised anime because it was different, just to find out that suddenly they like it because it became more mainstream.
There is no genuine "Like" in it for these kind of people.
Its almost they have to force themselves to like it because everyone else does like it, creating this bubble of feign interest.
Have enough of these people and you soon find out they corrupted the whole thing you liked by purely being retarded.
 
It's a show about a child soldier having mental problems after witnessing the horrors of war, a subject no Western author will touch. The child soldier is a child. Imagine that.
You mean like Ender's game and it's sequels dealing with child soldiers realizing how fucked up it all was and trying to come to terms with it? Weebs only look at anime so they only know anime. In the last 10 years there has been a big push into child soldier stories in the West and "Child misery" stories. Lots of child soldier biographies are being published as well as works of fiction. But none of them are trying to sell you chibi key rings and figurines to go with them are they?
Honestly, after looking up the trailer I couldn't see this argument anymore. The character in question isn't even drawn particularly sexy, so if this is coomerbait then so is literally any story ever that features a reasonably attractive woman, regardless of handling of subject matter.
Any story that's part of the anime industry is designed to appeal to otakus. A quick google tells me you can buy body pillows of the main character in her underwear on Amazon. Sasha Grey didn't stop looking like a whore just because she tried to act in some low budget horror movies. If you want to do a serious story then change the art style up and don't make your main character look exactly like one of the otaku waifu poster children.
 
And I mean, its not beyond the pale--some of my first anime experiences were what I called "Hastings Movies" (because I rented them from a place called Hastings a lot) which I characterized as having "wow" endings. Like Gall Force: Eternal Story ended showing that the events of the movie were actually the beginning of life on Earth,
When I first watched Eternal Story I thought it was really cool, but when I recently rewatched it, all I could think is "What did I ever see in this pile of crap?" Maybe it's because it's a proto-moe anime and my tolerance for moe stuff is nonexistent nowadays. I'm beginning to feel the same way about characters that don't clearly look and act like adults. Those "wow" endings you talk about are less and less impressive to me and seem more and more pseudointellectual because they reduce grand, existential ideas to cheap plot devices. Maybe I'm beginning to age out of anime, though I still soyface over Gundam and the Brave series. Ultimately I just wish I was immune to the anime tricks of dwelling on cool vehicle/robot designs for lots of the runtime and catchy/brooding music because I wish I could straight up hate it. It's formulaic, tropey, ridden with cringeworthy writing in so many ways, falls apart the moment you ask a few critical questions, and only gets so much attention due to being the most goonified media ever. I wish I could be an anime hater if for no other reasons than to expose myself to greater variety and, most importantly, be consistent with my anti-porn values (if trannies can hate Harry Potter on a dime for not aligning with their values, I should do the same thing with anime), but because it advertises toys that are too expensive/old for me to ever own, I see something in it and always feel like I'd be missing out on something if I gave it up, so I continue with it.
If you want to do a serious story then change the art style up and don't make your main character look exactly like one of the otaku waifu poster children.
Thank you for putting the instinctual aversion people have to the anime style in words. Weebs say "hur dur Alfred J. Kwak is technically anime so it's not a style", but go to any anime club or weeb sphere and you'll see their discussions center around that otaku waifu moe style, even if it's not anime (e.g. the dominance of Genshin, a Chinese video game, in weeb culture). Anime is a style, and it is a genre; the genre is "softcore porn" and the style is "7-year-old baby prostitutes".
Sasha Grey didn't stop looking like a whore just because she tried to act in some low budget horror movies.
This is why I hate it when people say "Fate isn't porn because sex scenes were only relevant in the original VN and it's become something bigger." No, faggot -- things like rapeworms are still major plot points, and the characters are still goonified because if they were in porn at first, they had to be goonified, and they will always be goonified for franchise recognition.
 
Lots of child soldier biographies are being published as well as works of fiction. But none of them are trying to sell you chibi key rings and figurines to go with them are they?
The YA ones 100% have merch and shit. Or did you forget the child soldiers against the wizard terrorists arc of harry potter? There's a lot more than just that one but that one's funny because dobby dies.
 
The YA ones 100% have merch and shit. Or did you forget the child soldiers against the wizard terrorists arc of harry potter? There's a lot more than just that one but that one's funny because dobby dies.
It's not so much that there's no merch but that the merch/media isn't in the moe otaku goonerbait style. Weebs will fixate on crap in that style while ignoring anything that's more mature or realistic visually.
 
It's not so much that there's no merch but that the merch/media isn't in the moe otaku goonerbait style. Weebs will fixate on crap in that style while ignoring anything that's more mature or realistic visually.
counterpoint:
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Complaining that the main character of a show for teenagers is also a teenager is about as dumb as it gets
You are aware that there are shows made for kids starting adults right? I'm pretty sure GI Joe wasn't aimed at at 40 year old soldiers.

Also, "Serious hard subject the west wouldn't even touch" my ass, if they were trying to do a serious piece on the subject of child soldiers the main character would be a 12 year old boy, not a 12 year old girl that they sell body pillows of.
 
You are aware that there are shows made for kids starting adults right? I'm pretty sure GI Joe wasn't aimed at at 40 year old soldiers.
wait till you see what animation studios made gi joe.
If you look it up, you're immediately greeted with "The animation was outsourced to Toei in Japan, who worked on all 95 episodes, as well as the movie." Gi joe is anime with extra steps. Terrifying I know.

Yeah, because a cutesy rendition of a desexualized character in a desexualized franchise with more than enough merch/art in regular styles is totally the same thing as a chibi version of characters that, in their regular styles, are already simultaneously babyish and sexualized.
I'm sorry you didn't find the little figure of the soon to be elf corpse funny.


I had to edit this post several fucking times because it keeps duping the ispoilers when i hit send for some reason. NO you will NOT stop me from saying dobby dies, gangster robot computer god!
 
wait till you see what animation studios made gi joe.
If you look it up, you're immediately greeted with "The animation was outsourced to Toei in Japan, who worked on all 95 episodes, as well as the movie." Gi joe is anime with extra steps. Terrifying I know.
Gi joe's main character isn't a 12 year old girl meant for the audience to fantasize fucking.
 
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