Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?

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C00kiecutter666 said:
Hello! I made an account specifically to spread the leaks, so forgive me because I don't know what I'm doing lol. I'm probably going to delete this account afterwards.
Anyway, the original poster posted two pdfs containing all frames in total to the hhg thread on 4chan's trash board, but I managed to save them before the links were removed. Whether these are real or not is up to you to decide.
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I don't know if anyone else is having this issue but I can't see nor download the pdfs.
 
Okay, so I finally got to see all the leaked storyboards. I will give my honest thoughts:

Pros: I liked the fight scene between Blitzø and Alessio. It will probably be cool looking when it's animated. That is all.

Cons: Crimson getting away, AGAIN. Why can't they just kill off a villain? For good? And I'm not talking about background or one off characters. It's especially annoying when by all means, they should have died. You had all the intent to murder him. So do it. Don't just leave so he has a chance to escape.

-Blitzø's and Vassagio's conversation. I know I don't have the full context of everything that happened before, but their whole exchange seems forced and unrealistic for some reason. Then again, this show's dialogue has never been written that well to begin with.

-Vassagio in general. Again, I don't have the full context, but he just feels like a very unnecessary character. His entire existence seems to be "good guy who likes Stolas" making him a nothing burger in the whole thing. Also, I don't like his random Spanish words added into every other sentence. This is not how bilingual people are. Hell, Vassago shouldn't be Hispanic in the first place. He's an ars goetia demon. They don't have human ethnicities.

-Repeating character moment. I get it. Blitzø really does appreciate Moxxie as a person, but doesn't want to show it. I GET IT. This has been addressed in season 1 and was supposedly fixed then as well. But whatever. We can't have our characters actually grow in a serialized story show because it's still trying but failing to be an episodic dark comedy.
 
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Sooty Soot said:
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I thought Husk-molerat said "But that's enough of this Israel".

In related retardation, how would Exodus all the way to the book of Joshua would go according to VivziePop? "The Pharaoh was Moses gay lover and he wouldn't want the Hebrews to go because Egyptians = Gay, while Lucifer and sins were playing devilish tricks"? What about Leviticus and Numbers in particular, with the occasions at the struggles in the Desert, Amalekites, Moabites?
 
Rembrandt said:
Can't even have one bromance in this show *sigh*
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It does feel like almost every romantic relationship in this show has one person taking care of the other like they're their kid or something. Like it's unequal footing. The only relationships that I feel have an equal standing with one another are maybe Pentious and Cherri Bomb, and Vortex and Beelzebub. And both of these relationships are underdeveloped as hell so take of that as you will.
 
I sat down and watched my copies of episodes 1 and 2 from start to finish. There's a quote I really like from Blood Meridian:

The judge smiled. Men are born for games. Nothing else. Every child knows that play is nobler than work. He knows too that the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the skill and strength of the opponents and the humiliation of defeat and the pride of victory are in themselves sufficient stake because they inhere in the worth of the principals and define them. But trial of chance or trial of worth all games aspire to the condition of war for here that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.


Suppose two men at cards with nothing to wager save their lives. Who has not heard such a tale? A turn of the card. The whole universe for such a player has labored clanking to this moment which will tell if he is to die at that man’s hand or that man at his. What more certain validation of a man’s worth could there be? This enhancement of the game to its ultimate state admits no argument concerning the notion of fate. The selection of one man over another is a preference absolute and irrevocable and it is a dull man indeed who could reckon so profound a decision without agency or significance either one. In such games as have for their stake the annihilation of the defeated the decisions are quite clear. This man holding this particular arrangement of cards in his hand is thereby removed from existence. This is the nature of war, whose stake is at once the game and the authority and the justification. Seen so, war is the truest form of divination. It is the testing of one’s will and the will of another within that larger will which because it binds them is therefore forced to select. War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is god. Brown studied the judge.
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To put it in lament's terms, the thrill from conflict is what both parties stand to lose. I've watched these two episodes from start to finish, I've looked up Adam as a character on the wiki, I've even asked AI what exactly Adam's character is without alluding to any stakes, and I'm still not clear as to what stake either characters have in this "plot". There are tons of explanations about Adam's personality and characterization but not really what the concrete stakes actually are in this plot. The best I could find was he's trying to stop an uprising.

I also don't really know what Charlie's stake is in this as well. Why is she so concretely fixated on redeeming demons in hell? Did she see this happen before? Has she had an experience where demons or sinners actually acted in good faith? Was the bible, presuming we're speaking about biblical mythos here, wrong about morality? "Doing this out of the kindness of her heart!" is a very weak pretense to actually use as a central motivation because there's next to no wager.

The supporting characters also, disappointingly, have no wager either besides Sir Pentious. What's stopping Angel Dust from just walking away from Valentino? Just love? Addiction? Okay, fine. But is there any concrete barriers that could potentially cause conflict? Why is Husk there at all? Is he poor? Does he have nowhere else to go?

It's why so many people feel like these characters are "OCs". Not just because of design (we'll get to that), but because none of them have any stake in the plot and all the actions they do is just indulgent scenes that are only really there to showcase the characters in a vacuum or highlight chemistry that's irrelevant to the story. Also their designs have no established rules. There's no explanation or visual reasoning why any character looks the way that they do other than Vivziepop thought they'd look cool. This of course is a nitpick, anime has gotten away with this type of ruleset before, but it really adds to that uncomfortable feeling these characters are do not steal OCs because their designs stand out too much and there's no established ruleset as to why they look the way they do.
 
Sorry to double post, but I looked up the semantics of the "extermination", the central conflict of this story and holy shit...
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I had a bit of a headache reading that.

"The Extermination took place in the Pride Ring, targeting only Sinners, while Hellborn species (and Charlie) are spared from the Extermination due to a pardon from Heaven that Lucifer managed to obtain."
First of all, why would Heaven even care what Lucifer wants? Hell is his domain and his domain is considered evil in the eyes of the biblical heaven. It's even established in the bible that he was generally hated by every angel for his transgressions against God, so why would they grant him any quarter at all in the first place?

Second, how can angels even differentiate species like Hellborn and Sinners? There's no visual indication at all in the show of any kind of differentiation. Do they have thermal optics in their visors that let them see? Why wasn't that established?

Third, why wouldn't you go after the hellborn species and overlords? Wouldn't that make strategic sense to eliminate the higher powers that could potentially form rebellions if that's what Heaven really fears from Hell? The solution is so fucking simple, just make them immortal. Just make them kill the sinners because they don't want the overlords to accrue an army or whatever.

"Adam was the one who conceived the plan, and Sera (who feared an uprising of Sinners from Hell would threaten Heaven) eventually agreed to it as long as the rest of their people were kept away from the truth."
And why the fuck would they do that? What's the point of hiding the "truth" from the populations of Heaven. Doesn't Heaven hate Helions and Sin? Wouldn't successful raids instill confidence in them? What the fuck is going on here?

"It is possible to avoid being killed in the Extermination, since in the Hazbin Hotel pilot, it is shown that many demons, such as Overlords and demonic royalty, took shelter in various buildings in Pentagram City. However, it is unknown if the Exorcists will attack inside buildings."

I don't think any commentary is necessary. I'll just let the absurdity of that speak for itself.
 
An Ordinary Ordinator said:
To put it in lament's terms, the thrill from conflict is what both parties stand to lose. I've watched these two episodes from start to finish, I've looked up Adam as a character on the wiki, I've even asked AI what exactly Adam's character is without alluding to any stakes, and I'm still not clear as to what stake either characters have in this "plot". There are tons of explanations about Adam's personality and characterization but not really what the concrete stakes actually are in this plot. The best I could find was he's trying to stop an uprising.

I also don't really know what Charlie's stake is in this as well. Why is she so concretely fixated on redeeming demons in hell? Did she see this happen before? Has she had an experience where demons or sinners actually acted in good faith? Was the bible, presuming we're speaking about biblical mythos here, wrong about morality? "Doing this out of the kindness of her heart!" is a very weak pretense to actually use as a central motivation because there's next to no wager.

The supporting characters also, disappointingly, have no wager either besides Sir Pentious. What's stopping Angel Dust from just walking away from Valentino? Just love? Addiction? Okay, fine. But is there any concrete barriers that could potentially cause conflict? Why is Husk there at all? Is he poor? Does he have nowhere else to go?

It's why so many people feel like these characters are "OCs". Not just because of design (we'll get to that), but because none of them have any stake in the plot and all the actions they do is just indulgent scenes that are only really there to showcase the characters in a vacuum or highlight chemistry that's irrelevant to the story. Also their designs have no established rules. There's no explanation or visual reasoning why any character looks the way that they do other than Vivziepop thought they'd look cool. This of course is a nitpick, anime has gotten away with this type of ruleset before, but it really adds to that uncomfortable feeling these characters are do not steal OCs because their designs stand out too much and there's no established ruleset as to why they look the way they do.
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This show is really designed for people who had been following Viv's work before it came out. And even then, there's some things that are never really explained so the fans just have to come up with their own theories that they'll just say is canon because...that's apparently the only way to have some idea on what is actually going on.

Adam's only role is to be the character that the audience wants the hero to defeat. He's also apparently influenced by Viv's only ex, so that explains why this man who has been here since the beginning of existence acts like a frat boy caricature. He can't be nuanced or bring up any real points on why the exterminations have to be a thing expect that "they're fun" so that the audience only sees him as the asshole in this whole situation. Because otherwise, the audience might even the tiniest bit on Adam's side here. And even might be against what Charlie is shooting for here; people who were sent to Hell for the stuff that they did when they were alive having another chance to get to Heaven.

Now as for Charlie; she wants to save her people from getting killed by angels every year. On a surface level, this shows that Charlie is someone who cares for others, and because she is what would be a princess, someone who wants to protect the people that she rules. But when watching the show, well...that starts to fall apart. In the first season, Charlie's whole reason for having a hotel to redeem Sinners so they can get to Heaven is for the exterminations to stop. We see that in the very first episode when she presents the idea to Adam. We don't really know if she wants Sinners to become better people. Hell, the first song is her singing about how wonderful Hell is, so clearly she doesn't see the place nor the people down there to be the main problem. So, when the exterminations are called off, Charlie has won. She has succeeded in what she has set out for. Of course, that is until we get to season 2 and we see what Charlie's motive actually is. She's doing all this because she wants her mom to proud of her and to bring her back into her life. Season 2 really goes out of it's way to show that Charlie actually doesn't care about the well being of her people. You can even argue that Vox and his crew have done more to help Sinners, even if it's all for show. And I know that is not what the people behind this show's intentions were, but that's because they really don't know how to write or go about Charlie's character. Because she doesn't really have that much of a character to go off by.

And for Angel Dust and Husk on why they can't just leave their own situations is because their souls are owned. But don't worry. The show doesn't really entail on what a soul contract is and how that all works, so I can understand why you're confused.
 
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