Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[InJailOutSoon]

Vaggie

Vaggie

Vaggie

Vaggie is such a frustrating character to me - and I'm not talking about the name change. I could give less than two shits about that nothing arc. It's the fact that she is wasted potential because they barely utilize the whole former exorcist thing with her. There's the big reveal in season 1 and a couple of things that are related to it in season 2, but that's it. We have no real idea on how she thought of Sinners back then and how much that change since being in Hell. And with seeing Exorcists gleefully doing executions and not doing a quick kill like I initial thought, I wonder was she a part of that? Did she have a bit of sadistic streak like the other exorcists? Why the fuck does nobody around her care that she was part of a yearly genocide?
Why does Lute hate her so much? Was it just because she spared what looked like a child Sinner? Or is there something more, and she already despised Vaggie beforehand? I don't know. The show rather spend all it's time on the gay and twinkish men instead of the main character's girlfriend. It really does feel like that Viv saw the theory of Vaggie being an exorcist floating during the pilot days, and thought it would be cool to just add it into her character without any real thought behind it. In fact, that is probably what happened.

 

[SBG]

I don't think the crossover is going to be as significant as people think. As I mentioned in a previous post earlier, Viv claims that all of HB and HH is already written, they just have to animate it. I have a feeling it is going to be something relatively minor, like one of the sins appearing in HH or maybe Lucifer actually showing up if we see Satan's courthouse again. They've already teased that this season, with the stack of cash from Mammon and the Belphegor plushy, both of which were in Lucifer's hotel room.

I think when she says it's been written she means the outline. They still do writers summits to work out how the actual episodes would go.

Which seems like a nicer way to go since it means she knows what the overall story is supposed to be, but does have people working on how the actual path to it would work out.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Vaggie is such a frustrating character to me - and I'm not talking about the name change. I could give less than two shits about that nothing arc. It's the fact that she is wasted potential because they barely utilize the whole former exorcist thing with her. There's the big reveal in season 1 and a couple of things that are related to it in season 2, but that's it. We have no real idea on how she thought of Sinners back then and how much that change since being in Hell. And with seeing Exorcists gleefully doing executions and not doing a quick kill like I initial thought, I wonder was she a part of that? Did she have a bit of sadistic streak like the other exorcists? Why the fuck does nobody around her care that she was part of a yearly genocide? View attachment 8208392
Why does Lute hate her so much? Was it just because she spared what looked like a child Sinner? Or is there something more, and she already despised Vaggie beforehand? I don't know. The show rather spend all it's time on the gay and twinkish men instead of the main character's girlfriend. It really does feel like that Viv saw the theory of Vaggie being an exorcist floating during the pilot days, and thought it would be cool to just add it into her character without any real thought behind it. In fact, that is probably what happened.

Don't worry, we might finally get some answers to Vaggie's time as an exorcist in Season 4 when Lute finally actually does shit, we just have to wait until 2028 at least for us to finally get some real solid former viewpoints of the deuteragonist, because Hazbin is about 'female led stories'.

Oh, fans love to blame everything on how bad season 1's pacing was, but it's obvious Viv just doesn't care, she's never really cared about Vaggie because she made her a former exorcist on a whim because she liked that popular fan theory, just like how she paired her up with Charlie before that. But what the best part of her this season was? It was the fact that Vox 100%, undeniably knows Vaggie is an angel, not just because Angel Dust would have told him, but also from this clip.

I've said this before, but Vox runs a slander campaign throughout the entire season, and even when I thought the season would be a total train wreck, I still thought he would use the fact Vaggie was an exorcist against the hotel. Just imagine headlines, 'Charlie Morningstar loves exorcists! Do you?' barely even scratches the surface, it would instantly show to the general public that Charlie does not give a shit about her people which is a significant part of his plan, instead of making obviously spliced clips have a large part of his big hotel expose be footage of Charlie and Vaggie being all romantic with each other, Vaggie showing off her angelic wings, only to hard cut to footage of the exterminations. Maybe she got lucky in Season 1 since everyone knew her for six months or more and were willing to set things aside, but the masses of Hell finding out a former exorcist lives in their midst? The former part matters nothing to them they should be out for blood, there should be a fucking lynch mob outside the hotel especially since almost everyone went there in the first episode to kill angels, and all this going on would be the perfect excuse to dive deeper into how Vaggie felt about everything while she was still an exorcist.

Not to mention, Lute should be more furious at Vaggie instead of Charlie, to her she's a disgusting traitor who sleeps with the spawn of Lucifer, took her arm, and helped kill Adam and many of her loyal sisters of battle, that's not even getting into any negative feelings she may of had when they were both exorcists, and going by that 5 second flashback (Which I'm fairly positive is the only time her past is relevant to S2 BTW) she definitely does, she should want to kill Charlie right in front of her and make her suffer, instead Lute is focused revenge on Charlie because God forbid Vaggie has something actually going on.

I'll give the show credit, it's very difficult for me to name a single other character who could so easily have been one of the best characters of their show with just the barest of focus put onto them, but since that's not the case they're easily one of the worst.

 

[Retink Retunk]

How is the song titling not a parody account?

 

[Re(Runner)48]

I’m not sure if they spaced these scenes out specifically to apply the rule-of-threes to that joke, or if the jokes were a post-hoc attempt to fix the writing.

They tried to. But they have ADHD and forgot that its the rules of three. As I believe he actually jokes about it 4 times.

 

[Strawberry Kiwi Propel]

S4 of Helluva will have a post-credits scene of Charlie calling Blitzo for help. This will lead into the opening of whatever season of Hazbin comes next.
Blitzo will probably do a quick recap of Helluva for the people who couldn't be bothered to watch both shows.

My wild guess is that the crossovers will mainly be relegated to specials, at least until maybe the final season of Hazbin, imagine them trying to make the Helluva cast relevant in standard Hazbin episodes where the cast is already cripplingly bloated. As for when, I'd make another guess and say early 2027, for reference I think Viv said somewhere that Helluva S3 will start sometime in spring next year, and with Hazbin S3 being roughly in summer 2027, the first crossover episode could be used to drum up early hype for its release. Amazon did this with Invincible, S2 started over 2 1/2 years after S1 finished, and they had a special episode air a few months beforehand to get the train rolling again.

I don't think the crossover is going to be as significant as people think. As I mentioned in a previous post earlier, Viv claims that all of HB and HH is already written, they just have to animate it. I have a feeling it is going to be something relatively minor, like one of the sins appearing in HH or maybe Lucifer actually showing up if we see Satan's courthouse again. They've already teased that this season, with the stack of cash from Mammon and the Belphegor plushy, both of which were in Lucifer's hotel room.

We know Satan is going to be in S4 of Hazbin according to what his voice actor said.

https://www.instagram.com/pagepatrick/reel/DPOi7dvDSgl/

t seems like they're doing the same thing with Sir Pentious, where it hinges on one big sin sent them to Hell instead of multiple sins. If they do have Angel killing orher people in his past, I doubt it will be anyone who is innocent because that might be too hard for the show to try and redeem. And they probably don't want to get into the whole conversation that would happen if Angel's victims are up in Heaven.

Even if he didn't directly kill innocent people when he was alive, like Sir Pentious, it'd still be interesting how Angel would feel to be around them in Heaven if he felt guilty about being involved with their deaths. That's somewhat my issue with the Speaker of God, or at least how she was utilized in the beginning of Episode 2, where she was quick cop out to indisputably declare Pentious deserves to be in Heaven. As much as people comment how stupid it be if Pentious were to go back to Hell, I did ponder the idea of a redeemed soul relapsing, thus making Heaven question if redemption's truly possible, and if a person should be given a third chance or more before rehabilitating them becomes monotonous.

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

So, what are we thinking is how Helluva and Hazbin end up having a crossover? I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned that it will be happening at some point.

I'm gonna be honest I would not be at all shocked to find out Blitzo is the reason Vox died in a flashback episode. It's just way too convenient that the tv positioned dangerously overhead would fall directly on his. I don't know if the timeline matches up but still

 

[The Nothingness]

Vaggie is such a frustrating character to me - and I'm not talking about the name change. I could give less than two shits about that nothing arc. It's the fact that she is wasted potential because they barely utilize the whole former exorcist thing with her. There's the big reveal in season 1 and a couple of things that are related to it in season 2, but that's it. We have no real idea on how she thought of Sinners back then and how much that change since being in Hell. And with seeing Exorcists gleefully doing executions and not doing a quick kill like I initial thought, I wonder was she a part of that? Did she have a bit of sadistic streak like the other exorcists? Why the fuck does nobody around her care that she was part of a yearly genocide? View attachment 8208392
Why does Lute hate her so much? Was it just because she spared what looked like a child Sinner? Or is there something more, and she already despised Vaggie beforehand? I don't know. The show rather spend all it's time on the gay and twinkish men instead of the main character's girlfriend. It really does feel like that Viv saw the theory of Vaggie being an exorcist floating during the pilot days, and thought it would be cool to just add it into her character without any real thought behind it. In fact, that is probably what happened.

going by that 5 second flashback (Which I'm fairly positive is the only time her past is relevant to S2 BTW)

That flashback from S2 just makes things more confusing. Was Vaggie indoctrinated à la Full Metal Jacket, was the angel she tried defending was the Private Pyle of the group, and did she begin to break her conditioning after whatever happened to that angel? Did cornering a cannibal child cause her to have a "Are We the Baddies?" moment (ignore the fact the child she was chasing is a cannibal)?

This just reminds me of the Star Wars sequel trilogy having Finn turn on his fellow troopers for no reason.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I'm gonna be honest I would not be at all shocked to find out Blitzo is the reason Vox died in a flashback episode. It's just way too convenient that the tv positioned dangerously overhead would fall directly on his. I don't know if the timeline matches up but still

He wouldn't have been alive at this time since Blitzø is only in his 30s and Vox died sometime in the 1950s.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

Finn turn on his fellow troopers for no reason.

I dunno, if you trained me to be an elite shock trooper, I had a latent force sensitivity, and I was forced to be a janitor in a setting with droids for manual labor, I'd probably be ready to betray The Empire First Order too.

 

[Aib Ld]

We know Satan is going to be in S4 of Hazbin according to what his voice actor said.
https://www.instagram.com/pagepatrick/reel/DPOi7dvDSgl/

Even those with very basic knowledge of the Bible know that Lucifer and Satan are the same person, pre-fall and post-fall. How the hell (lol) is this going to work?

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

Even those with very basic knowledge of the Bible know that Lucifer and Satan are the same person, pre-fall and post-fall. How the hell (lol) is this going to work?

Viv has already established they're two separate characters in this canon so it's nothing she hasn't already done

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

I dunno, if you trained me to be an elite shock trooper, I had a latent force sensitivity, and I was forced to be a janitor in a setting with droids for manual labor, I'd probably be ready to betray The Empire First Order too.

It's not that Finn defected, that's perfectly understandable. It's that the thing that caused him to defect was seeing his battle brothers dying, but then he starts mowing down those same former comrades and cracking jokes about it less than a day later with zero conflict or reservations. He doesn't even hesitate.

He was literally raised with these people from infancy and he turns on them faster than I would turn on my old retail coworkers with apparently zero care for the fact that they're just like him. He has more inner turmoil chasing after Rey's snowbunny ass than he does about slaughtering dozens of men that are essentially his brothers.

These two scenes unironically take place >12 hours apart;

Finn also never acts like someone who was kidnapped as a 4 year old and trained to be a soldier, he acts like someone who enlisted a month ago and never held a gun before. His personality is completely incongruent with his character's backstory.

 

[Aib Ld]

Viv has already established they're two separate characters in this canon so it's nothing she hasn't already done

I can't tell if that is better or worse

 

[A Very Big Fish]

Even those with very basic knowledge of the Bible know that Lucifer and Satan are the same person, pre-fall and post-fall. How the hell (lol) is this going to work?

I think it was Marvel comics (could be wrong, I stopped collecting ages ago) but either The Devil, or Satan was a title, and not a specific being, and all the most powerful demons in Hell would fight for the title. And there's almost an idea there, because Satan is a title, meaning "The Adversary" so I think you could do something with that. For example in paradise lost, Lucifer doesn't adopt the title Satan until he has completely given up on the idea of any path forward but trying to damn humanity and has given up even contemplating repentance.

Also, just figured I'd share this scene. Mostly because I love Daredevil & Fr. Lantom

 

[Mola Ram]

I can't tell if that is better or worse

There are some traditions in which Satan and Lucifer are different beings, with Lucifer being some fallen being while Satan is "the Adversary." There's also a pretty long history in fiction and gaming of taking the different names for the devil and assigning them to separate entities.

Of all the dumbitude around religion in this show, this ranks pretty low on the list, really. Certainly way lower than having Peter but no Jesus.

EDIT: Partly ninja'd by @A Very Big Fish, who provides a good example of the sort of thing I'm talking about.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

It's not that Finn defected, that's perfectly understandable. It's that the thing that caused him to defect was seeing his battle brothers dying, but then he starts mowing down those same former comrades and cracking jokes about it less than a day later with zero conflict or reservations. He doesn't even hesitate.

He was literally raised with these people from infancy and he turns on them faster than I would turn on my old retail coworkers with apparently zero care for the fact that they're just like him. He has more inner turmoil chasing after Rey's snowbunny ass than he does about slaughtering dozens of men that are essentially his brothers.

These two scenes unironically take place >12 hours apart;
View attachment 8209827View attachment 8209828


Finn also never acts like someone who was kidnapped as a 4 year old and trained to be a soldier, he acts like someone who enlisted a month ago and never held a gun before. His personality is completely incongruent with his character's backstory.

Especially with that flashback in S2, you think Vaggie would be a bit traumatized over killing her former comrades, it's perfectly acceptable if that she doesn't have a breakdown during the battle and immedate aftermath, you could easily explain it away as adrenaline and being in a life or death scenario that leaves no mental room for that stuff. But just like Finn, Vaggie doesn't care later, she doesn't have any second thoughts of maybe if she tried hard enough she could convince at least some of the people she knew to give up and retreat back to Heaven to live to see another day even if none of them would fully turn sides.

There's a ton of parallels to be drawn with Vaggie and Finn, but especially so in how much both were such a missed opportunity to showcase how the normally faceless soldiers are actually people under those helmets, you don't need to dedicate a ton of screentime to this concept, maybe have a 30 second scene of Vaggie, obviously uncomfortable and thinking alone on a balcony, perhaps looking at Heaven, flashing between her being amicable with some of her former comrades and her killing them during the battle before another character interrupts her brooding would get the message across crystal clear without any dialogue.

 

[Fcret]

I can't tell if that is better or worse

There's a scene in HB where Satan makes a grand statement about how he's ruled the endless dark since long before the golden angel's fall. And instead of that being an interesting piece of worldbuilding shrouded in mystery, Viv clarified (on social media because of course she did) that he was just lying.

So why even have it in the show if you're just gonna immediately discredit it?

The "canon declaration via bluesky" is one of the most irritating Vivziepopisms.

 

[Aib Ld]

I think it was Marvel comics (could be wrong, I stopped collecting ages ago) but either The Devil, or Satan was a title, and not a specific being, and all the most powerful demons in Hell would fight for the title. And there's almost an idea there, because Satan is a title, meaning "The Adversary" so I think you could do something with that.

There are some traditions in which Satan and Lucifer are different beings, with Lucifer being some fallen being while Satan is "the Adversary."

Didn't 'Satan' also means an object of sort? Jesus did say to Peter "Get behind me, satan" when Peter started to have doubts. It could also be funny joke to have someone speak to HH Lucifer/HB Satan with the tone of speaking to a child, treating his title as a measly obstacle to step over with nary a glance, instead of a opposing figure.

There's a scene in HB where Satan makes a grand statement about how he's ruled the endless dark since long before the golden angel's fall. And instead of that being an interesting piece of worldbuilding shrouded in mystery, Viv clarified (on social media because of course she did) that he was just lying.

So why even have it in the show if you're just gonna immediately discredit it?

The "canon declaration via bluesky" is one of the most irritating Vivziepopisms.

having a huge split between the show(s) and having information on social media is a rampant problem, like I didn't know Satan and Lucifer are meant to be different people instead of a mistake or an idea coming up, like him purposely making two different aspects of the same person because of him being the ruler of all hell.
Not having the characters and so the audience not find that out for themselves is stupid.

 

[Oddity]

Just finished watching S2 and it was really fucking good! There are a load of plot holes but it was very... cohesive in a way that everything had a good flow to it.

Power of friendship scale was off the charts on the last episode (minus Angel Dust) but it was kind of wholesome still. Overall, I rate it 9/10. It's the kind of show that could make a mourning person laugh for the first time in weeks or some shit.