Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?

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ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
AKA Devil May Cry the Video Game vs Devil May Cry the Netflix Adaptation
https://youtube.com/watch?v=slplo8H5iBw
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Waaaaooooowww!!! It's so edgy!
I wanted this woman to die the instant I saw her speak. And of course, Dante is girlboss'ed by her. Western media, folks.
sex haver said:
Yes, that was one of the final scenes in HB's S2 finale. Bonus: Millie calls her MTF tranny "sister" for advice on being pregnant. You know, her sibling that has a penis and not a womb and doesn't know a fucking thing about being pregnant.
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Gondolindrim said:
The hallmark of a bad writer is when they hate their MC and need them to get out of the way so their preferred characters can take over.
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Or the select few MCs. Take how ASoIaF/GoT was famous to quote the line "no one is safe", but in the later seasons of the TV show, the main characters got saved by plot armour and George has no idea what to do to get the MCs to not die. I know I keep bringing up ASoIaF, yet I really invested my time watching and reading it.
ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
They'll just make it "Vagatha" in honor of Pentious, then shorten it to "Vaggie" anyway.
On that note, "religious trauma" has to be up there with "media literacy" in terms of elitist hipster slang that just makes me roll my eyes.
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FFS this user needs to be FORCEFULLY removed from electronics to function better.
 
Stumbling7 said:
Peek comic on Adam and Charlie, wish it was portrayed in the series but noooooo, we need the MC to look good, without anyone questioning her thesis.
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Which is exactly the biggest problem with Charlie as a character. She embodies the worst type of Mary Sue: someone who is constantly validated by the narrative, despite their numerous unaddressed, downplayed, or excused flaws. Episode 4 for example has her be the reason for Angel's abuse in that episode, and after he calls Charlie out... she's treated as an afterthought joke for the rest of the episode. But since Angel was okay, that makes what Charlie did okay, so she doesn't actually need to reflect on how her actions have consequences. In fact, Episode 6 is all about how much the hotel, i.e. Charlie, was beneficial for Angel. And to top it all off, both songs in the finale were about how much Charlie impacted these people's lives.

Fans defend Emily's line about calling Sinners "innocent people" by saying she was referring to the fact they're receiving unwarranted punishment, not that they're good people. Regardless, the point of that line was to further emphasize that the Exterminations are this objectively wrong thing. Sera's poorly characterized all things considered, but how she's presented according to the narrative's intention reinforces the idea that because Charlie has noble goals, she'll always be in the right, so anyone who disagrees with her are vilified and she doesn't need to improve as a person for her plan to succeed.
 
ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
Viv already handwaved any complaints about that anyway by saying the SUPER bad souls like child rapists and dictators are so evil that their souls just blink out of existence, completely bypassing Hell.
It's like she read that part in Dante's Inferno about people he hated who were still alive being in Hell while demons occupied their bodies, and said she could do one better.
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I guess regular rapists aren't bad enough to Viv since Valentino is there. Unless I guess he started being rapey after he was sent to Hell. But we have confirmation for season 2 of both Alastor's and Vox's backstory before they went to Hell, with the former being a serial killer and the latter being a cult leader. These are usually on the top of people's immoral list, especially cult leader since there's usually a multiple of heinous crimes that are committed when being one.
Strawberry Kiwi Propel said:
Which is exactly the biggest problem with Charlie as a character. She embodies the worst type of Mary Sue: someone who is constantly validated by the narrative, despite their numerous unaddressed, downplayed, or excused flaws. Episode 4 for example has her be the reason for Angel's abuse in that episode, and after he calls Charlie out... she's treated as an afterthought joke for the rest of the episode. But since Angel was okay, that makes what Charlie did okay, so she doesn't actually need to reflect on how her actions have consequences. In fact, Episode 6 is all about how much the hotel, i.e. Charlie, was beneficial for Angel. And to top it all off, both songs in the finale were about how much Charlie impacted these people's lives.

Fans defend Emily's line about calling Sinners "innocent people" by saying she was referring to the fact they're receiving unwarranted punishment, not that they're good people. Regardless, the point of that line was to further emphasize that the Exterminations are this objectively wrong thing. Sera's poorly characterized all things considered, but how she's presented according to the narrative's intention reinforces the idea that because Charlie has noble goals, she'll always be in the right, so anyone who disagrees with her are vilified and she doesn't need to improve as a person for her plan to succeed.
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Emily's line, while stupid, does make sense for a character like her. She's a young naive angel whose worldview has solely been of Heaven; only recently has she got a glimpse of Hell. And it's not that bad. And with Sir Pentious, being once a Sinner, is now in Heaven, she probably believes that the other people down there similar. When she visits Hell and actually experience more of what it has to offer, a good writer would have here sheltered worldview expanded, as she realizes that people like Sir Pentious in Hell are the minority, and a lot of them aren't as "innocent" as she has once thought of them.

For Charlie...well Charlie's whole worldview doesn't fit with her background. Again, I use this image a lot in comparison of pilot Charlie to show Charlie but it is very telling how these are the same characters looking at the exact same scenario but with drastically different reactions. 1701060444786398.png
For someone like Charlie, her understanding of good and evil should be just that; there's good and there's evil. What the Sinners are doing in Hell are evil, and to be good they need to be doing the opposite. Her comprehension at the time being should be almost like a child when you tell them not to steal a cookie from the jar. They know that if they do so, it would be wrong; but they don't understand fully why it's wrong. Nor do they understand the nuances because the cookie jar may not be completely off limit to them, because perhaps they are allowed to have a cookie after dinner.

I know the analogy may not be the best here, but the point I was making is that morality in itself is simple at times yet complicated at others, and for a character like Charlie, that should be soemthing her character learns throughout the show.
 
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ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
Viv already handwaved any complaints about that anyway by saying the SUPER bad souls like child rapists and dictators are so evil that their souls just blink out of existence, completely bypassing Hell.
It's like she read that part in Dante's Inferno about people he hated who were still alive being in Hell while demons occupied their bodies, and said she could do one better.
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As some people pointed out Vals, Vox an Als existence kinda nukes that argument, heck id day even some of the much older sinners like Zestial prob does, since that fucker makes people go nuts just by looking at him. Frankly, wouldnt it work better to say how the more fucked up souls are tossed into other hell rings, an from there they maybe amassa power to eventually set up shop in Pride ring, cause its seen like say a bigger hub place ans where the big cheese Lucifer hangs out an who doesnt wanna get favors with the ringmaster.
 
ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
Viv already handwaved any complaints about that anyway by saying the SUPER bad souls like child rapists and dictators are so evil that their souls just blink out of existence, completely bypassing Hell.
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Viziepop is an emotional driven writer, and emotional driven writers do not feel the need to made their homework of setting up or respect the worldbuilding.
How did Holdo's kamikaze attack succeed? BECAUSE SHE WAS DESPERATE!
How did the faggot owl managed to beat up the other faggot owl while being powerless? BECAUSE HE WAS ANGRY!
How did Steven universe made peach wit galaxy dictators and made them stop committing genocide on interplanetary scale? BECAUSE FAMILY!
Why there are no pedos in hell? BECAUSE I SAYS SO!
ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
It's like she read that part in Dante's Inferno about people he hated who were still alive being in Hell while demons occupied their bodies, and said she could do one better.
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Dante's inferno categorized sin and made so that the bigger the sin the deeper you fall, with its very bottom featuring souls that were either completely buried in ice for eternity or thrown into the Soulchupper; the ultimate Sin-grindatron 3000 himself Lucifer. Simple and elegant solution.

Yesterday I sperged out and wrote on this very thread my take on how I would have done the worldbuilding and explained that the soul of sinners should used as currency after being extracted from their demon body, making it a non-issue explaining why pedos and any communist leader is nowhere to be found, as the problem I was ignoring the existence of was already solved by itself.

A good story with good and respected worldbuilning challenge your intellect and allows for stupid questions to be answered easily and logically, even if you write your characters to be dumb, you still need to put intelligence in the surrounding.

A poorly written story filled with "And then..." and unexplained/rulebreaking shit may appeal to the moment and the lowest common denominators, but really its not something that stays, if the HK Grimm themed faggot owl can just beat the shit out of the ice themed faggot owl even after losing his powers, then the reality is that nothing could stop him to also pull out a super shotgun and kill that caricature of a character that is is ex-wife with it.
 
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Strangolapreti said:
Viziepop is an emotional driven writer, and emotional driven writers do not feel the need to made their homework of setting up or respect the worldbuilding.
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Unfortunately, this is what having a mentally stunted fujoshit artist as a showrunner gets you in terms of writing quality. She wants theological cosplay buttsex, angst and momentary drama? She gets theological cosplay buttsex, angst and momentary drama – integrity and greater plot be damned.
I swear, if not for the ToS of YouTube/Amazon and any kind of tardwrangling from other more grounded writers, the whole Hellaverse would've just been unfiltered yaoi rape porn, with tidbits of AO3 level teenage angst and ADHD """""humor""""" that would make any adjusted individual physically whiplash thrown in for any kind of breathing room between the Viv's personal goonseshs.
Any original potential that both of these series had was made and held by people other than Viv just being more competent in writing and actually sticking to the premise and world than her, only for it to be washed away after disappointments that were HH release and HB from S1E6 onward.

It makes me feel idiotic for naively hoping for the past couple years that these shows would be if mediocre at best and very faggy in style, at least consistent in being edgy guilty-pleasure. It was something that struck nigh-perfectly as any kind of alternative to the soft holesome chungus type of rainbow media and characters that were being shoehorned in those good 4-5 years ago.
Can't be really surprised shit went down this way. The signs were already there – the degeneracy seeping through more and more, the reckless schizo storytelling basically requiring you to basically live in Viv’s head to comprehend what the fuck is going on, the fact that the series got a pilot spin-off before HH was even picked up because she got bored of waiting and wanted to get her instant gratification fanfic-universe off the ground right this fucking instant.
Shit was over before it even began.
 
sex haver said:
Yes, that was one of the final scenes in HB's S2 finale. Bonus: Millie calls her MTF tranny "sister" for advice on being pregnant. You know, her sibling that has a penis and not a womb and doesn't know a fucking thing about being pregnant.
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Had Vivian not had so much baggage attached to her and her work I MIGHT have given her some slack once and figured millies not asking for advice about being pregnant and just needs someone to talk too for some emotional support in general. Then again she's given me little reason to give her such a benefit because the weight of her chicanery stays her feet.



But what I can give her some slack for is her birthday today. It's probably been said on Vivian's own dedicated thread, but happy birthday vivzie, that's about the nicest thing anyone on this place can say to you so enjoy it.
 
ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
As if these writers wouldn't have Stalin and Mao living it up in Heaven.
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There is a reason I mentioned commies when talking about the version I wrote but didn't do the same when explaining Viv's mindset.
And now that you made me think about it, I'm sure Dante Alghieri's Divina Commedia is a banned book in california and england alike for portraying muhammad as a sinner in one of the deepest circles of hell, so I bet Viv doesn't even know such a book exists.
 
Strawberry Kiwi Propel said:
Which is exactly the biggest problem with Charlie as a character. She embodies the worst type of Mary Sue: someone who is constantly validated by the narrative, despite their numerous unaddressed, downplayed, or excused flaws. Episode 4 for example has her be the reason for Angel's abuse in that episode, and after he calls Charlie out... she's treated as an afterthought joke for the rest of the episode. But since Angel was okay, that makes what Charlie did okay, so she doesn't actually need to reflect on how her actions have consequences. In fact, Episode 6 is all about how much the hotel, i.e. Charlie, was beneficial for Angel. And to top it all off, both songs in the finale were about how much Charlie impacted these people's lives.
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InJailOutSoon said:
Emily's line, while stupid, does make sense for a character like her. She's a young naive angel whose worldview has solely been of Heaven; only recently has she got a glimpse of Hell. And it's not that bad. And with Sir Pentious, being once a Sinner, is now in Heaven, she probably believes that the other people down there similar. When she visits Hell and actually experience more of what it has to offer, a good writer would have here sheltered worldview expanded, as she realizes that people like Sir Pentious in Hell are the minority, and a lot of them aren't as "innocent" as she has once thought of them.
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And Emily's naivety could be her downfall in the hands of a writer who doesn't care about plot armor. To reiterate, we seen most of the populace would rather live their debauched lives and now they feel empowered to kill angels thanks to Charlie. In a better show Emily would end up like the Western women who backpack through South America or Asia the moment she steps into Hell. Or she is killed by Niffty because the latter is a psychopath that Charlie instructed to stab any angel she sees before the battle last season. This would result in Charlie having to deal with the consequences of her own actions and add real character drama.
 
ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
>VoxChad and Heaven get most of the screentime
>Alaslop and Angel Queer are constantly getting cucked
Did we fucking win, bros?
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The fucking gay demon show is not topical. If you say that it is and that's what make this show good, you are an idiot.

But anyway, I do find it funny that they're complaing that Heaven and it's characters shown too much this season. If this show was still focused solely on the hotel, the inhabitants there, and their life in Hell, I would be agreeing with this take. But because of the involvement of Heaven in season 1 and becoming a Hell vs Heaven story, of course they now have to focus on Heaven and the people there. Especially for a character like Sera, who pretty much solely decided for the exterminations to happen in the first place. Since this season is mainly about the Vees and them trying to overtake Heaven, that's probably what we are going to get the most screentime on. If Viv has kept with her original plan of this being a rehabilitation story for wayward souls, then yeah, you probably would have gotten more screentime with the people from the hotel.

Also, just the fact that Alastor is calling on Vox's bullshit when he himself has more bullshit going on. Alastor, you literally sold your soul on Earth to be a powerful demon in Hell and died the very next day. You didn't have to do shit to get where you are in Hell today. At least with Vox, it seems like he had to work his way to get to the position of power he is in today.
 
The only thing that can save this show from this homoerotic shitfest edgelord drama it is, is if God himself saw all this and said point blank “You all had plenty of chances to be better people when you were alive, you don’t get any more.”

He then proceeds to obliterate the connection between heaven and hell permanently, and nukes the hotel and Lucifer’s house with holy flames as punishment.

Unfortunately, this would be the ending of a much better show
 
Beggamania said:
...Alright, Viv, props to you, this made me genuinely grin quite a bit. This thread now has a dedicated merch to it, huh? xd
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You guys are hate watching this shit?
The last time I tried to do something like that was with goodbye volcano high, didn't even buy it and couldn't even get past the Filler roleplay session.
Viv has to be fucking demented if she think I'll even consiering enduring her goyslop with the excuse of hatewatch.
 
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