Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?

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InJailOutSoon said:
Which is probably Eve because the main difference is their hair style and "the Lilith" we see from Lucifer's and Charlie's memories has a more similar hair style to Eve.
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We also see photographs of the Morningstar family being a happy family while Charlie is around that age with Lilith having the hair-style that is similar to the one she has back on Earth.
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I wish I knew why """Lili-Eve""" looks so damn evil. Some biblical scholars disagree with others, yet it is said that the serpent was a fallen angel (Sammael/Azazel) that seduced Eve and laid down with her. Adam followed suit, for she loved the sexual intercourse; And the error was for her lying down with the fallen angel, not necessarily with Adam. But that is just an interpretation, and that is why they had shame aftermath. (Yet there would still need to have an explanation afterwards on where does knowledge of good and evil come, etc etc etc.
Smity Werbenjagermanjensen said:
I'm going to revisit one aspect of that leak I now believe, so Vox not only tries to overthrow Lucifer, but outright manages to somehow capture him (How he fuck he manages that when Lucifer curb stomped Adam to the point he was just toying with him for almost the entire 'fight' I have no clue), manages to somehow breach his way into Heaven using some kind of secret weapon (again how he pulls that out his ass I have no clue), Vox is subdued at the end, and for some reason Lucifer doesn't slowly tear him apart piece by piece for this. Not just Lucifer either, after managing to showcase he is a direct threat to Heaven by destroying their protective barriers and is capable of managing to take down Lucifer, a fallen Seraphim, Heaven should be demanding to Hell that his severed head be delivered to the pearly gates if they even want to think about not immediately restarting the exterminations and massively expanding upon them. Not to mention Alastor should kill Vox for humiliating him for half the season (Who manages to get out of his deal with Rosie/Lilith at the end so that excuse is out the window), and the other hotel characters should have some personal things to say about Vox hypnotizing Angel Dust to just add one last final thing to the pile.

What is Charlie going to beg everyone "No, don't kill Vox! That would be MEAN!" and it will somehow work for everybody and showcase she just how fucking retarded she is. Yes, she did the same thing with Adam, but at least there you could argue she was worried about Heaven's reaction to the first man and military leader being killed (which didn't turn out to be a problem anyway because absolutely nobody besides Lute gives a single shit), but Vox doesn't have that luxury and everyone should be demanding he be dismembered with a holy blade and his remains tossed into holy fire for good measure.

I don't think the phrase 'plot armor' can even describe this, we need a new one since this goes way beyond that.
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Incredible. If Viviane was indeed afraid to take risks, she would have tore Vox a new cakehole. I don't mean this in a way of "GRRR I HATE VOX!!!". No, sometimes, characters do need to come with the consequences of their actions. Eddard Stark died, from his foolishness, just as much as Tywin Lannister died from his blind spot that he had for his son Tyrion. How would he guess that his dwarf son would escape and kill him while he was at a water closet? Sometimes, life gets at you and there's nowhere to run.

The situation here is simple: Vox endangered both Hell and Heaven, and why not "Earth" as well? For that I would think he needs a lesson: either have his body parts scrambled and suffer for a century, or something just so the next person who "dares" try the same shit won't do that again. And whoever's in charge of the "security" (St. Peter?) be held accountable.
 
Viv has confirmed that Roo is officially a canon character, so odds are she's gonna be the final villain, since I doubt they're still recording lines for Season 3
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ThisIsGonnaBeGood said:
During an interview with Lute's VA, she mentioned her character loving Adam "no matter where he is," which is enough for me to pretend she's confirming he's coming back beyond being a hallucination.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LX3xsikBPaM:63
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There's also an interview where Viv was talking about Adam, and Brightman had to make her keep quiet, further indicating his return.

A lot of people say bringing Adam back would be detrimental for Lute's character, which... speaks volume on how much of a satellite Lute is if her focus is automatically diminished because Adam's around. I doubt anyone who criticizes Millie is asking for Moxxie to be killed off so she can get expanded on.

Those who are Pro Sinner Adam bring up the hypothetical scenario of him joining the hotel would add an interesting dynamic with Charlie, as unlike Alastor, Angel Dust, or Sir Pentious Charlie has history with Adam for her to form a bias on him for whether she's willing to allow him to get involved. Would she put aside her hatred for him and let him try to redeem himself, or deny him, potentially damaging the image she sets for herself?

And as for Lute, her entire existence is ending the lives of the spawns of Hell, but if Adam's a Sinner, will she be hesitant to kill her boss, or will she just see him as another demon to slaughter? Though based on what Jessica said here, it'll probably be the former, and Lute's gonna find whatever excuse imaginable to defend Adam like saying the Heaven/Hell system is unfair towards him, and only him.
 
Outer Space Traveller said:
I wish I knew why """Lili-Eve""" looks so damn evil. Some biblical scholars disagree with others, yet it is said that the serpent was a fallen angel (Sammael/Azazel) that seduced Eve and laid down with her. Adam followed suit, for she loved the sexual intercourse; And the error was for her lying down with the fallen angel, not necessarily with Adam. But that is just an interpretation, and that is why they had shame aftermath. (Yet there would still need to have an explanation afterwards on where does knowledge of good and evil come, etc etc etc.
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Lucifer when he's fighting with Adam makes it sound like he stole both of his potential wives and fucked them which...yeah, upstanding guy of the century all. Some people say he was only taunting Adam and didn't actually steal both of them, but if he was telling the truth that just means he fucked Eve without any regards to her feelings and just left her afterwards because...asshole. And this was all before he fell to Hell.

There's also a theory that Eve is Roo (or the Root of all Evil) and if that also ends up being true...then this is probably rhe most valid crashout I have ever seen. Her whole body and mind has been corrupted because she ate a piece of fruit that was given to her by A LITERAL ANGEL and everyone has deserted her because of this. No shit, she's going to hate everyone from both Heaven and Hell. It will probably be revealed that she was the mastermind of everything to get Heaven and Hell to start this war with each other.

And no wonder she took Lilith's place. She sees the two people who were the catalyst for all this have a happy family life, something that she was never able to have herself. Of course she's going to try to screw their's over; they already did that to her.
 
My only interest in the show it to see on what level of John Walker effect Lute will be.
 
NSJAP said:
My only interest in the show it to see on what level of John Walker effect Lute will be.
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I've just grown so numb to Vivian's woke shit chicanery. I watched the pilot remake (she publicly released it free on youtube) and that's it? Eh whatever it's you show vivian....to bad it csnt get any emotion or response from me.


Heard of Schock fatigue? I have retard fatigue.
 
Prime Video exclusivity for the new HB pilot ended and went live on YouTube, for those that don't have Prime and couldn't be bothered to pirate it.

 
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Smity Werbenjagermanjensen said:
Man, the show is trying really hard to make it seem like Cherri gave a fuck about him before Angel told her he had two dicks.
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There's this tweet from someone who saw the first couple episodes explaining there's a deeper connection between the two. They said without going into spoilers:
"What caught Cherri's attention is that Pentious saw what many don't see in her, that she was good at making explosive artifacts and a worthy rival."

Wow, that would've been great if we actually saw them battling in S1! Or seeing how Cherri makes Hell "just that much more chaotic" like her redesign teaser stated. No? She's Sir Pentious's girlfriend and that's it?

Pray that she'll have a major role in Episode 6 since it's focused on the Overlords who Cherri gives trouble according to her audition sheet, but with the Chaggie song, Husk's subplot, Angel getting hypnotized, and Vox's overall shenanigans, I won't get my hopes up.

Also, side note, not only is CherriSnake rushed, but Pentious's redemption is rushed with the context of him actually being shown fighting Cherri instead of being all talk, no show like they implied. Ignoring the question of how not reporting Jack the Ripper made him a warmonger, we never see him growing out of those tendencies. Oh, right, it happened off screen, I forgot.
 
Man they really just do not comprehend why people enjoyed the pilot. The fact that they went back and remade it without all the fun parts but doubled down on the gay drama and bad jokes is insane to me.
 
Smity Werbenjagermanjensen said:
Man, the show is trying really hard to make it seem like Cherri gave a fuck about him before Angel told her he had two dicks.

EDIT:Also the show can't decide where Pentious' wings are and sometimes they disappear entirely.
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Strawberry Kiwi Propel said:
There's this tweet from someone who saw the first couple episodes explaining there's a deeper connection between the two. They said without going into spoilers:
"What caught Cherri's attention is that Pentious saw what many don't see in her, that she was good at making explosive artifacts and a worthy rival."

Wow, that would've been great if we actually saw them battling in S1! Or seeing how Cherri makes Hell "just that much more chaotic" like her redesign teaser stated. No? She's Sir Pentious's girlfriend and that's it?

Pray that she'll have a major role in Episode 6 since it's focused on the Overlords who Cherri gives trouble according to her audition sheet, but with the Chaggie song, Husk's subplot, Angel getting hypnotized, and Vox's overall shenanigans, I won't get my hopes up.

Also, side note, not only is CherriSnake rushed, but Pentious's redemption is rushed with the context of him actually being shown fighting Cherri instead of being all talk, no show like they implied. Ignoring the question of how not reporting Jack the Ripper made him a warmonger, we never see him growing out of those tendencies. Oh, right, it happened off screen, I forgot.
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Remember when Cherri Bomb would fight with others over turfts? Remember when Cherri Bomb had a tight bond with Angel Dust and even though she wasn't helping Angel become a better person, she did indeed care for him? Remember when it was heavily hinted at that Cherri Bomb had been in a shitty past relationship and that she probably wouldn't want to get involved in another one right away?

I'm not going to post the Pepperidge Farm Remembers gif, but there's no denying that she has been stripped away all of that to just be part of a love story. And a shitty one at that. Sir Pentious likes Cherri Bomb for unknown reason, and Cherri Bomb likes Sir Pentious for...having two dicks. There's no proof that there's any other reason for why she likes him, as for the rest of the time these two shared screentime she appears mostly annoyed by him.

And you can't just make us forget that she just let him be dragged away to a sex room while he was screaming no. I don't care that it's a joke. The show obviously wants us to care about the topics of sexual abuse and take sexual assault seriously when it happens to characters like Angel Dust, but when it happens to the butt monkey of the group it's fine. It's just supposed to be "lol, isn't it just so quirky to want to have sex with someone you like but then you accidentally end up getting in an orgy with a bunch of people you didn't consent to; #so relatable". It's so disgusting.

And it's not like I'm offended by these kinds of jokes. It's the fact that the defense for this by the fans and people behind this show is that this is not a sexual assault joke. I bet it's going to be similar when Sir Pentious tries to kill himself and they say "well, it wasn't a real gun and he didn't actually kill himself so it's actually not a suicide joke". Or better yet the defense might be "well he actually thought he was going to be back in Hell when he did that so it's not like he was actually committing suicide." Reminds me so much of the actual excuse I've seen people using "Well, because Sir Pentious came out looking unscathed from the sex room that means he wasn't sexually assaulted". Because that's a good mindset to have. Can't wait for that to be used in an actual real case of sexual assault. "Well, she looks fine afterwards so she wasn't sexually assaulted."
 
Strawberry Kiwi Propel said:
There's this tweet from someone who saw the first couple episodes explaining there's a deeper connection between the two. They said without going into spoilers:
"What caught Cherri's attention is that Pentious saw what many don't see in her, that she was good at making explosive artifacts and a worthy rival."

Wow, that would've been great if we actually saw them battling in S1! Or seeing how Cherri makes Hell "just that much more chaotic" like her redesign teaser stated. No? She's Sir Pentious's girlfriend and that's it?

Pray that she'll have a major role in Episode 6 since it's focused on the Overlords who Cherri gives trouble according to her audition sheet, but with the Chaggie song, Husk's subplot, Angel getting hypnotized, and Vox's overall shenanigans, I won't get my hopes up.

Also, side note, not only is CherriSnake rushed, but Pentious's redemption is rushed with the context of him actually being shown fighting Cherri instead of being all talk, no show like they implied. Ignoring the question of how not reporting Jack the Ripper made him a warmonger, we never see him growing out of those tendencies. Oh, right, it happened off screen, I forgot.
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We know why Cherri and Pentious' whole romance was rushed even by the standards of the already extremely rushed first season, it's because Pentious was originally supposed to have a crush on Rosie and wasn't going to be a part of the hotel either. But given that Cherri and Pentious became a popular ship, Viv decided to make that canon, just like Vaggie being Charlie's girlfriend and a fallen angel. As been countless times here, the second half of S1 should have been saved for S2, and S1 is all character building.
InJailOutSoon said:
Remember when Cherri Bomb would fight with others over turfts? Remember when Cherri Bomb had a tight bond with Angel Dust and even though she wasn't helping Angel become a better person, she did indeed care for him? Remember when it was heavily hinted at that Cherri Bomb had been in a shitty past relationship and that she probably wouldn't want to get involved in another one right away?

I'm not going to post the Pepperidge Farm Remembers gif, but there's no denying that she has been stripped away all of that to just be part of a love story. And a shitty one at that. Sir Pentious likes Cherri Bomb for unknown reason, and Cherri Bomb likes Sir Pentious for...having two dicks. There's no proof that there's any other reason for why she likes him, as for the rest of the time these two shared screentime she appears mostly annoyed by him.
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The Ian Malcolm dinner speech from Jurassic Park fits surprisingly well for a lot of Viv's writing.
Viv likes payoff to character arcs, heck everyone does, but she hates building up to them to make them satisfying in the first place, instead of taking her time to set things up she decides to run right to the end. In this case, instead of trying to make the ship actually make sense, clearly setting up who both these characters are, what their relationship is to begin with, giving them significant screentime with each other, having scenes where their dynamic has clearly changed since their first scene together and in a believable fashion, she instead saw some Cherrisnake fanart on Twitter, really liked it and wanted to make it canon, so she has it to where Pentious is madly in love with her (contradicting the 'partly canon' pilot) and Cherri clearly not caring about him until he complements her explosive talents once, hears he might have two dicks in the same scene, and a love confession kiss is enough to make her do a total 180 on her views.

Even if any of the stuff established about Cherri in the Addict MV ends up still canon, instead of it serving as traits she has, or explanations and motives behind those traits, her potentially having a shitty past relationship will only serve to contrast how Pentious actually cares about her.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
And you can't just make us forget that she just let him be dragged away to a sex room while he was screaming no. I don't care that it's a joke. The show obviously wants us to care about the topics of sexual abuse and take sexual assault seriously when it happens to characters like Angel Dust, but when it happens to the butt monkey of the group it's fine. It's just supposed to be "lol, isn't it just so quirky to want to have sex with someone you like but then you accidentally end up getting in an orgy with a bunch of people you didn't consent to; #so relatable". It's so disgusting.

And it's not like I'm offended by these kinds of jokes. It's the fact that the defense for this by the fans and people behind this show is that this is not a sexual assault joke. I bet it's going to be similar when Sir Pentious tries to kill himself and they say "well, it wasn't a real gun and he didn't actually kill himself so it's actually not a suicide joke". Or better yet the defense might be "well he actually thought he was going to be back in Hell when he did that so it's not like he was actually committing suicide." Reminds me so much of the actual excuse I've seen people using "Well, because Sir Pentious came out looking unscathed from the sex room that means he wasn't sexually assaulted". Because that's a good mindset to have. Can't wait for that to be used in an actual real case of sexual assault. "Well, she looks fine afterwards so she wasn't sexually assaulted."
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And fans are gonna turn around by pointing out how we're constantly denying the idea of Stolas getting raped by Stella. How we're "silencing male victims". The fact we have issues with the Sir Pentious scene at the club shows that we do express concern when a man faces sexual assault. The problem with Stolas is that Stella was forced to have sex with him as well in order to produce a heir. Her wanting to get it over with while he has zero initiative to do so doesn't make her an abuser. Worst she's done onscreen is insult him. Stolas has all the power in the relationship, and according to hierarchy, marquises are ranked lower than princes, so it's not like Stella can use Andrealphus for control in the marriage. He says that he puts up with her so Octavia can have a normal life, but what's his definition of a "normal life"? Fridge sadness of him being horrified of M&M roughhousing in Sinsmas implies he gets beaten often, but by that logic, due to us not knowing anything about his mother, for all we know, because he grew up motherless, being a single father is normal for Goetia standards. We don't see him do his job to say he bases parental relationships off of human families.

Stolas is like Angel Dust. Him being a male victim isn't the problem. The problem is that they want him to be defined by only that, disregarding and/or downplaying his negative actions that would make the plot he's a part of to be more complex, risking the possibility of viewers not sympathizing with him.
 
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Strawberry Kiwi Propel said:
And fans are gonna turn around by pointing out how we're constantly denying the idea of Stolas getting raped by Stella. How we're "silencing male victims". The fact we have issues with the Sir Pentious scene at the club shows that we do express concern when a man faces sexual assault. The problem with Stolas is that Stella was forced to have sex with him as well in order to produce a heir. Her wanting to get it over with while he has zero initiative to do so doesn't make her an abuser. Worst she's done onscreen is insult him. Stolas has all the power in the relationship, and according to hierarchy, marquises are ranked lower than princes, so it's not like Stella can use Andrealphus for control in the marriage. He says that he puts up with her so Octavia can have a normal life, but what's his definition of a "normal life"? Fridge sadness of him being horrified of M&M roughhousing in Sinsmas implies he gets beaten often, but by logic, due to us not knowing anything about his mother, for all we know, because he grew up motherless, being a single father is normal for Goetia standards. We don't see him do his job to say he bases parental relationships off of human families.
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It doesn't help that the show just...doesn't want to show what Stolas and Stella and marriage was like before the affair and the little info we do get contradict with each other. Stolas said he did everything he could to give Octavia a normal life, but the show doesn't want to acknowledge that Stella did the same thing for Octavia. We see that she went to Loo Loo Land with both Stolas and Octavia (which again was the cheap knock-off of an amusement park that imps could afford), for not her own benefit but for the sake of her daughter. We see pictures of the family being happy together, and I know pictures don't tell everything, but we can see very much when there is a forced smile from Stolas or Stella, but there are a few pictures of them with Octavia that show both of them genuinely smiling. We also have Octavia, who very much blames Stolas solely for her family life falling apart. And I know a lot of people just want to put up as "she's just some dumb kid that doesn't know what's truly been going on". But she's been living with her parents for over 17 years. I imagine she wouldn't be completely blind to her parents issues before the whole affair happened.

I'm not saying Stella is this perfect angel who did nothing wrong, nor am I saying that Stolas didn't deal with some unnecessary shit. What I'm saying is that the show is trying to perpetuate Stolas as being 100% the victim in this relationship that did absolutely nothing wrong, while Stella is the absolute worst that deserves no sympathy.
 
Another teaser, this time focused on Husk, Angel, and Niffty. The fading audio of Husk yelling as Niffty carries him off is weird. Hope it doesn't sound that bad in the actual episode.
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