Guns good or bad

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I don't know if the used panties vending machines deal is true anymore, but I've heard that girls sell their used underwear to weirdos on occasion to this day. And yeah the suicide rate is higher per capita than ours, so yeah you're on to something. I did once work with a guy who was real into anime and video games, by his own admission, who was in super denial about Japan's ugly side. Maybe I'll tell that story sometime.
Japan, like every country has its dark side- that Bataan death march and Rape of Nanking didn't come out of nowhere, even if that was 80 years ago. But I'm not trying to condemn Japan as a nation, just to say that modeling one's own legislation entirely on another country's without considering cultural, logistical, and other parts of the equation. There has never been anything like a sweeping right to arms in Japan. This is why Okinawans developed weapons based on common everyday tools- they were much easier to conceal and say "Oh, that's just a sickle" or "That's my grain flail".

One reason swords hold such high esteem in Japanese culture (and medieval Europe for that matter) is that they're prestigious weapons of the wealthy and socially elite. A samurai or knight had the status, training, and means to have a sword or fine bow made and to use it effectively. If you were a peasant, they gave you a polearm since it takes a lot less time to train with and far less time and money to produce.

I have to view people that say "Oh, let's adopt x country's method of firearm law" as having as much effective value as "let's change the side of the road you drive on". It's ignoring a lot of factors that would make such a massive and sweeping change extraordinarily difficult and ill-advised to do.

That's where the vague anti-gun propaganda weirdness comes in. I have ordered a gun to my door. A ColtWalker1847. But it isn't considered a "gun" by the ATF because it's a cap and ball black powder replica. It's super neat, btw. You could, in theory, buy a replica black powder revolver like it and a conversion cylinder for modern smokeless cased ammo online and have a functioning "firearm" shipped to your door without a background check.
You have to be careful saying a thing like that- there's no nuance with some people, and the dumbest of anti-gun activists will call that a loophole. Some can't tell the difference between a Colt Paterson and a Python, they see a revolver and video game or movie logic assigns it "a big powerful handgun". That's one insane synapse away from "Oh my god, people can have the gun from Dirty Harry shipped right to their door!"

It really is terrifying to me how many people will watch a movie or play a game and think "that's absolutely, 100 percent how guns work and are used in real life".
 
Japan, like every country has its dark side- that Bataan death march and Rape of Nanking didn't come out of nowhere, even if that was 80 years ago. But I'm not trying to condemn Japan as a nation, just to say that modeling one's own legislation entirely on another country's without considering cultural, logistical, and other parts of the equation. There has never been anything like a sweeping right to arms in Japan. This is why Okinawans developed weapons based on common everyday tools- they were much easier to conceal and say "Oh, that's just a sickle" or "That's my grain flail".

One reason swords hold such high esteem in Japanese culture (and medieval Europe for that matter) is that they're prestigious weapons of the wealthy and socially elite. A samurai or knight had the status, training, and means to have a sword or fine bow made and to use it effectively. If you were a peasant, they gave you a polearm since it takes a lot less time to train with and far less time and money to produce.

I have to view people that say "Oh, let's adopt x country's method of firearm law" as having as much effective value as "let's change the side of the road you drive on". It's ignoring a lot of factors that would make such a massive and sweeping change extraordinarily difficult and ill-advised to do.


You have to be careful saying a thing like that- there's no nuance with some people, and the dumbest of anti-gun activists will call that a loophole. Some can't tell the difference between a Colt Paterson and a Python, they see a revolver and video game or movie logic assigns it "a big powerful handgun". That's one insane synapse away from "Oh my god, people can have the gun from Dirty Harry shipped right to their door!"

It really is terrifying to me how many people will watch a movie or play a game and think "that's absolutely, 100 percent how guns work and are used in real life".

Oh yes, you reminded me, the same guy was also in denial about Japan's war crimes and thought his $60 katana from Bleach qualified as an actual weapon. I dunno if it was proper heat treated spring steel or laser cut 440 stainless plate steel for decorative swords, but it definitely seems a tad suspect in my book. It's often legally difficult to own even a sword in Japan now, incidentally. But yes, I find it absolutely ridiculous when people say "oh look at Japan we should be more like them on this issue" when the average Joe has little to no knowledge about the nuances of Japanese culture or customs.
 
You have to be careful saying a thing like that- there's no nuance with some people, and the dumbest of anti-gun activists will call that a loophole. Some can't tell the difference between a Colt Paterson and a Python, they see a revolver and video game or movie logic assigns it "a big powerful handgun". That's one insane synapse away from "Oh my god, people can have the gun from Dirty Harry shipped right to their door!"
You haven't shot a Walker then. It's pure sex. click-BOOM! Then four feet of smoke from the muzzle. It's a horse pistol so it can put a big hole in a person. Also horses.

But, it hasn't been a practical firearm for anything since 1873. Technology advanced. It's still damn cool to shoot for funsies though.

If the dipshit anti's want to spin that into some kind of Pelosi-level propaganda, I welcome them. I will quickly load it with 45 grains of Hodgdon Triple Seven, some Malt-O-Meal for wadding, a 454 round ball, borebutter to prevent chainfire, and a no. 11 cap and dare them to take it from my cold dead hands. Hopefully they are really far away or else I might have to draw my sabre.

Ban fencing!
 
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Oh yes, you reminded me, the same guy was also in denial about Japan's war crimes and thought his $60 katana from Bleach qualified as an actual weapon

Youre making a helluva lot of assumptions about me. I would be a retard to think a sword from Little Tokyo or Chinatown is actually a weapon.

All Im saying it wouldnt hurt to make getting a gun license a lot harder. Its baffling you can go into a gun store in Florida and get a gun. Theres a lot of nuance to the argument sure, and you can probably just get a gun in a black market, but i think great power like a gun deserves more responsiblity than we give in the US

And look, I know a police state tier chokehold on guns has its problems. I come from a country that has a series of especially fucked up knife murders. And maybe Im not passionate enough about guns to really see you guys' perspectives, I need to admit that. I just feel like you guys are being a little too defensive about all of this.

I wouldnt really dip my fingers into this pie at all, but its just really concerning the amount of crazies in recent times shooting up schools and public places. It could be media hyperattention on the issues, but that doesnt deny we should probably talk about the issue without flinging shit all over the place.

The issue in America in terms of gun control is definitely due to its population size and the size of the country. Obviously its a lot easier to regulate guns when theres less people to worry about, and I understand its a challenge that affected the country for centuries.

The second amendment was set up at a time when a rifle needed to be reloaded for a couple minutes every time you shot the thing, and I think it isnt sacred word in a time when weaponry is advanced beyond anything the Founding Fathers could imagine.
 
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You haven't shot a Walker then. It's pure sex. click-BOOM! Then four feet of smoke from the muzzle. It's a horse pistol so it can put a big hole in a person. Also horses.

But, it hasn't been a practical firearm for anything since 1873. Technology advanced. It's still damn cool to shoot for funsies though.

If the dipshit anti's want to spin that into some kind of Pelosi-level propaganda, I welcome them. I will quickly load it with 45 grains of Hodgdon Triple Seven, some Malt-O-Meal for wadding, a 454 round ball, borebutter to prevent chainfire, and a no. 11 cap and dare them to take it from my cold dead hands. Hopefully they are really far away or else I might have to draw my sabre.

Ban fencing!
Not arguing with you, just pointing out how dumb/intellectually dishonest people will twist facts.

Incidentally I haven't fired the Walker but I have handled one. I recall it being about as front-heavy as my M1A1 with the stock folded. Big damn gun.
 
We already have a system like that in place. Like all systems it's not 100% reliable but then again nothing is. Plus, psychopaths exist in all walks of life, and psychopathy in itself is often very difficult to detect, let alone handle. And denying/depriving a constitutional right is not going to get rid of psychopaths, even if it DID somehow magically make guns disappear. It's as idiotic and counterproductive as anti-bullying programs and prohibition. It's just feelgood nonsense made to make nonsensical people feel good.

Psychopathy is usually quite easy to detect. People have a lot of misconceptions about it because of the stuff they're exposed to in movies and literature, but in the real world the Hannibal Lecter archetype that we tend to associate with psychopathy is virtually non-existent. In reality, the vast majority of psychopaths would stand out like a sore thumb if they had to undergo a mental health screening before being able to get their hands on a gun, and this could go a long way towards preventing guns from being used to harm innocent people.

Take mass shooters as a good example. You only have to look at photos of most of them to know that there is something deeply disturbed about them mentally, yet the majority of them acquired their guns legally. That doesn't speak very highly about the comprehensiveness of the background checks that are already in place.

And if you just want a person's rights to be removed without due process because they just seem crazy and you don't like them. No. Fuck no. That is not how rights should be treated by government. Either prove it in court or fuck off.

Who said anything about there being no due process? If it has been assessed by mental health professionals acting within the bounds of the law that somebody is a danger to themselves and others, then what sensible objection do you have against preventing them from getting their hands on a gun? Rights are not unconditional. If you go to a public place and start indiscriminately killing a bunch of people, you'll learn that even your most central right, the right to life, has it's limitations.

I should probably make it clear at this point that I actually have no problem with civilian gun ownership. I simply take the view that it comes with responsibilities, and a lot of the gun enthusiasts I encounter don't seem to take this very seriously.
 
Who said anything about there being no due process? If it has been assessed by mental health professionals acting within the bounds of the law that somebody is a danger to themselves and others, then what sensible objection do you have against preventing them from getting their hands on a gun?
That is already the law. Brady Bill.

Do I need to get out the fingerpaints to explain this.
 
Take mass shooters as a good example. You only have to look at photos of most of them to know that there is something deeply disturbed about them mentally, yet the majority of them acquired their guns legally. That doesn't speak very highly about the comprehensiveness of the background checks that are already in place.
It speaks to the laws already on the fucking books not being enforced and psychiatric and law enforcement professionals not doing their due diligence.

All Im saying it wouldnt hurt to make getting a gun license a lot harder. Its baffling you can go into a gun store in Florida and get a gun. Theres a lot of nuance to the argument sure, and you can probably just get a gun in a black market, but i think great power like a gun deserves more responsiblity than we give in the US
Gun license? Do you mean a CCW permit or something else? Most states don't require licenses to own a long gun and few require it to possess a handgun.

Why is it baffling that you can go trade money you earned for something you want to own? That's how commerce generally works, whether you find the product acceptable or it makes you shit yourself. When you go to buy a gun they take your ID and you fill out Form 4473 and are run through the NICS background check system. It has its problems (see above) but if you don't know that you don't know shit about gun laws and have no business commenting on them.
If it has been assessed by mental health professionals acting within the bounds of the law that somebody is a danger to themselves and others
The problem is those so called professionals AREN'T reporting or the reports aren't getting through to the profiles that the NICS system has on file. So someone's fucking up and ruining it for the rest of us.
 
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Youre making a helluva lot of assumptions about me. I would be an exceptional individual to think a sword from Little Tokyo or Chinatown is actually a weapon.

I only brought him up to demonstrate how things aren't always as they seem from the outside looking in. And how would I know if you collect cheap katanas made from cheaper steel? I really don't care, it's not my business, but clearly I hit a nerve in there somewhere. I was an "edgy" teenager myself and thought stuff like that was cool at one point too, so don't feel bad.

All Im saying it wouldnt hurt to make getting a gun license a lot harder. Its baffling you can go into a gun store in Florida and get a gun. Theres a lot of nuance to the argument sure, and you can probably just get a gun in a black market, but i think great power like a gun deserves more responsiblity than we give in the US

License? As in to own or conceal carry? There's a lot of different legal statuses depending on your state here. California and New York are stricter than Kansas or Montana, for example. It's not like "Oh hey I walked in and just bought it bam done" unless private sales are a thing. And those are difficult to regulate, I've done a few myself. I mean, really, how are you gonna stop Farmer Joe from selling an old shotgun to pay for a shiny new AR clone? The ATF doesn't even bother with obvious straw buyers most of the time, because it's difficult to prove in court that the guy is reselling to gang members or whatever. They don't give a shit about the real problems anyway.

I wouldnt really dip my fingers into this pie at all, but its just really concerning the amount of crazies in recent times shooting up schools and public places. It could be media hyperattention on the issues, but that doesnt deny we should probably talk about the issue without flinging shit all over the place.

Perhaps you've been watching too much CNN? They're way overexaggerating shit in order to get as much attention as possible to an extremely unpopular political movement. I mean, who in their right mind would advocate for the confiscation of legally bought private property and expect everyone to be on board?

The issue in America in terms of gun control is definitely due to its population size and the size of the country. Obviously its a lot easier to regulate guns when theres less people to worry about, and I understand its a challenge that affected the country for centuries.

Population is one factor, but the issue is much more complicated than that. A lot of people also live in the middle of nowhere, so it's not like the police would even be able to protect them even if it was their job (surprise, it's not). The bigger challenge is a legal one, it's hard to regulate something that is seen as a constitutional right alongside freedom of speech and religion/etc. And from my viewpoint, if they manage to curtail one section of the Bill of Rights, what's going to stop them from doing the rest in? I mean, for Christ's sake, we have people protesting in favor of MORE censorship, not less, because they literally believe that "speech is violence."

The second amendment was set up at a time when a rifle needed to be reloaded for a couple minutes every time you shot the thing, and I think it isnt sacred word in a time when weaponry is advanced beyond anything the Founding Fathers could imagine.

"Only muskets existed during the time the Second Amendment was written, and therefore, ONLY MUSKETS SHOULD BE ALLOWED"

Actually, that's not the case. Repeating firearms have existed since at least 1718.

One for the British Navy, from long before the USA was even an idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

And a handheld repeater from the early 19th century.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Cochran.htm

It's not like the Founding Fathers believed that technology wouldn't advance beyond cumbersome, single-shot smoothbore muskets (and rifled bores in some cases-huge advantage over the British and Loyalists by the way). They lived in the Enlightenment period of history, there was a lot of technological and intellectual advancement going on at the time compared to others. Sure, nothing is absolute, but arguing that technology that didn't exist back then should be banned because the Bill of Rights was written in the late 18th century is just asinine.

Psychopathy is usually quite easy to detect. People have a lot of misconceptions about it because of the stuff they're exposed to in movies and literature, but in the real world the Hannibal Lecter archetype that we tend to associate with psychopathy is virtually non-existent. In reality, the vast majority of psychopaths would stand out like a sore thumb if they had to undergo a mental health screening before being able to get their hands on a gun, and this could go a long way towards preventing guns from being used to harm innocent people.

Take mass shooters as a good example. You only have to look at photos of most of them to know that there is something deeply disturbed about them mentally, yet the majority of them acquired their guns legally. That doesn't speak very highly about the comprehensiveness of the background checks that are already in place.

You're thinking of sociopaths, who are more open about it. Psychopaths tend to be more under the radar and rather cold and calculating at times. Psychopathy may in fact be useful for certain jobs, such as espionage or special forces work. Besides, forcing everyone to take a test is shifting the burden of proof to the accused rather than the accuser, and it may in fact be a huge violation of privacy and doctor-patient confidentiality. There's always going to be disturbed people doing disturbed things, but that's the price of living in a free society. Besides, actual psychopaths may be more difficult to detect and/or stop, but can often be more destructive over time. It's difficult to diagnose them because they will lie a lot and put on enough charm to get out of things.

https://www.healthyplace.com/person...sychopath-vs-sociopath-what-s-the-difference/

Honestly, I think the media either picks the most disturbing photos or edits them to look worse than they were. It wouldn't be the first time they lied to sell a story. Time Magazine, in fact, got caught editing OJ Simpson's image in 1995 (?) to make him look like more of a monster before any actual trial proceedings. Being ugly or looking like an autistic spaz with a dead fish eye stare isn't a crime, nor is it necessarily an indicator of future violence in itself.

It's almost as if all this pre-crime bullshit the leftards are proposing doesn't work. Seriously, progressives, go start your own country.
 
I like guns as range toys but I don't like the thought of people killing each other with them
they're cool in the same way as making stuff explode: you don't really want it happening to you or anyone else but it's groovy to watch
 
I like guns as range toys but I don't like the thought of people killing each other with them
they're cool in the same way as making stuff explode: you don't really want it happening to you or anyone else but it's groovy to watch

That's a fair position to have. It's funny, you know, alcohol is way more destructive to society overall, and I don't hear anyone calling for a ban on that.

It's almost as if being consistent isn't a thing anymore.
 
That's a fair position to have. It's funny, you know, alcohol is way more destructive to society overall, and I don't hear anyone calling for a ban on that.

It's almost as if being consistent isn't a thing anymore.
I remember someone calling for a ban on alcohol. I just don't remember the result being a very good one.

Prohibition of alcohol was largely unpopular when it was enacted and it allowed organized crime to flourish. The War on Drugs has accomplished much of the same...
 
Guns are like dogs. They're fun to have around, most people who have them don't actually have a logical security or employment need to have one, and 99% of the time their owners treat them responsibly and nobody gets hurt. If you want to ban things because they serve no practical purpose and can kill or injure people, you would need to ban all pets, most medicines, sex toys, sports cars, video games, religion, most television, and non-procreative sex. And probably a million other things I haven't thought of.
 
I remember someone calling for a ban on alcohol. I just don't remember the result being a very good one.

Prohibition of alcohol was largely unpopular when it was enacted and it allowed organized crime to flourish. The War on Drugs has accomplished much of the same...

What? You mean someone actually made something illegal and it didn't have the desired results? Mind. Blown.

Guns are like dogs. They're fun to have around, most people who have them don't actually have a logical security or employment need to have one, and 99% of the time their owners treat them responsibly and nobody gets hurt. If you want to ban things because they serve no practical purpose and can kill or injure people, you would need to ban all pets, most medicines, sex toys, sports cars, video games, religion, most television, and non-procreative sex. And probably a million other things I haven't thought of.

You'd be surprised how many people live in the middle of nowhere and in some areas, a firearm may be more practical than in others. Just saying. But I'm definitely with you on the banning things sentence though.
 
Its always hard to prove the validity of the opposite argument when it deviates from the status quo. An America without guns doesnt exist, and claiming that America is any better is only speculation. I concede that Im not prepared enough to really debate the issue to a quality im satisfied with.

And maybe America is taking the proper steps to deter mass shootings. Schools are employing more therapists than security and people are focusing on alleviating mental health issues. Like hows its hammered, guns are just guns at the end of the day; it might not be the problem.

Dismissing the recent string of shootings as just fake news and media bias is dangeous though. Statistics dont really lie to such an extent that the country lopsides the amount of domestic homicides by guns, and journalism still has standards, despite what Trump tweets everyday.

Better background checks and taking initiative in acting towards individuals on CIA watch lists sounds like a solid idea though
 
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Its always hard to prove the validity of the opposite argument when it deviates from the status quo. An America without guns doesnt exist, and claiming that America is any better is only speculation. I concede that Im not prepared enough to really debate the issue to a quality im satisfied with.

And maybe America is taking the proper steps to deter mass shootings. Schools are employing more therapists than security and people are focusing on alleviating mental health issues. Like hows its hammered, guns are just guns at the end of the day; it might not be the problem.

Dismissing the recent string of shootings as just fake news and media bias is dangeous though. Statistics dont really lie to such an extent that we lopside the amount of domestic homicides by guns, and journalism still has standards, despite what Trump tweets everyday.

Better background checks and taking initiative in acting towards individuals on CIA watch lists sounds like a solid idea though

Imagining an America without a Second Amendment, or, for that matter, firearms, is difficult. In fact, the country was founded upon them at least in part. The first skirmishes with the British was because they were looking to seize arms and ammunition meant for the colonists, who wanted to control their own militias and affairs overall. The colonists were already being shit on due to the Stamp Act and the constant increases in taxes without consent or consideration. Note that Britain was in serious debt after the French and Indian War a decade or two back, and was looking to extract income from the colonies in any way possible to cover for their own screw-ups. They told me in elementary and middle school that it was "taxes" that led to the Revolutionary War, yes, this is part of the story but not all. Trying to seize arms from the colonists, who were generally used to controlling their own affairs, was the last straw.

The laws on firearms and related items are, quite literally, all over the place, depending on where you live. You might have an easier time in Oklahoma than you would San Francisco, for example, due to differences in culture and legalities (and the fact that San Fran's last gun shop closed a while ago). And besides the general rifle, shotgun, pistol, modern sporting rifle categories, you got NFA items, like short-barreled rifles/shotguns, machine guns, destructive devices, etc., that have had their own legal statuses since at least 1934, so it's all a confusing mess. Dumping more regulations on top of many that already aren't enforced half the time isn't going to fix anything. Evidence has shown that hiring security people who have the balls to do their jobs when required is a better deterrent, I'm not sure about mental health stuff, but that's an entirely different animal. Some kids could benefit from therapy and/or being taught coping skills, but there's hardly enough money in the public school budget to keep the fucking sports teams afloat. Again, an entirely different animal.

Whether you are pro-gun, anti-gun, somewhere in between, or indifferent, statistics can often be fudged or misleading, and they often are. An anti-gun statistician can doctor a "Children Who Died From Guns Last Year" poll to include persons up to the age of 25, for instance, to include the majority of people who are members of black and Mexican gangs that die in their endless "turf wars" over drugs and fucking graffiti tags. Journalism in America is something of a joke these days, they don't even pretend to be fair and balanced anymore. When Obama was president, it was all praise praise praise. Still is on his occasional mention. Plus, whenever a firearm is used in self-defense it's swept under the rug because it doesn't help the agenda.

And one more thing, putting people on secret "watch lists" is not only ineffective, as evidenced since 9/11, but in fact, it is a gravely offensive insult to what is supposed to be a "free" society. It's something the fucking KGB would do, not a so-called Western "democracy" (although I'm pretty sure it's in reality an oligarchy. More on that later). And how are background checks going to get "better" at this point? Require people to snitch on each other more? Deny a constitutional right before due process is performed in regards to the person in question? Denying people RKBA for having the "wrong" world view? Seriously, how the fuck is it going to work in practice at this point? If a felony/domestic or adjudicated mental defective result has been proven in court, that's about all that can be done. You can't deny someone his rights just because he subscribes to ludicrous conspiracy theories or votes third party or whatever. Pre-crime just doesn't work.

You don't need a gun if you have mind bullets tho

Be one...With Yuri!

 
You're thinking of sociopaths, who are more open about it. Psychopaths tend to be more under the radar and rather cold and calculating at times.

Psychopathy and sociopathy are merely pop-psychology terms that people use to describe what actual psychologists refer to as antisocial personality disorder. It's not actually very useful to make a distinction between the two, and as I stated before, the archetype of the 'cold and calculating' evil genius who appears normal but is actually a raving nutcase exists primarily in fiction. In the real world, it's not difficult to spot the warning signs of APD, and the people who have it are usually not very successful at hiding it.

Besides, forcing everyone to take a test is shifting the burden of proof to the accused rather than the accuser, and it may in fact be a huge violation of privacy and doctor-patient confidentiality.

Is it an unnecessary shift of the burden of proof to demand that people take a test in order to be allowed to drive on public roads? Is it a violation of privacy and doctor-patient confidentiality to require that people who are medically unfit to drive should make that known to the relevant authorities?

There's always going to be disturbed people doing disturbed things, but that's the price of living in a free society

This is a defeatist statement that lacks any strength of conviction. Of course there are going to be some disturbed people who will want to do disturbed things, but that doesn't mean that we have to resign ourselves to that fact and refuse to take steps to reduce the chances of it happening. There are plenty of European countries that are measurably a lot freer than the United States, and yet they have much tighter controls on firearms. How could this be possible?

As I have stated, I have nothing against civilian gun ownership, and if you support the right of law-abiding citizens to own guns within reasonable limits, then I am on your side. If however, you have bought into the myths that having more guns in society is automatically better, that any legislation designed to curb them from being used malevolently is futile, or that your political freedom is somehow centrally dependent upon your ability to keep a gun, then I am afraid to say that you are delusional.

On a related note, I find that people who try to draw a link between guns and freedom usually tend to be people who measure freedom solely in terms of the freedom to own firearms. Don't be one of those people.
 
Dismissing the recent string of shootings as just fake news and media bias is dangeous though. Statistics dont really lie to such an extent that the country lopsides the amount of domestic homicides by guns, and journalism still has standards, despite what Trump tweets everyday.

Better background checks and taking initiative in acting towards individuals on CIA watch lists sounds like a solid idea though
Two issues here, one is larger and the other is smaller.

First, let's look at this phrase as a mathematical expression: gun violence. gun violence - guns still leaves us with violence. We aren't going to magically have fewer fatalities if guns were magic wanded away.

Second, the CIA handles international intelligence. The FBI is the Federal agency handling domestic/interstate law enforcement. The FBI and ATF are the ones handling firearm law at the national level.
 
Psychopathy and sociopathy are merely pop-psychology terms that people use to describe what actual psychologists refer to as antisocial personality disorder. It's not actually very useful to make a distinction between the two, and as I stated before, the archetype of the 'cold and calculating' evil genius who appears normal but is actually a raving nutcase exists primarily in fiction. In the real world, it's not difficult to spot the warning signs of APD, and the people who have it are usually not very successful at hiding it.

Can you cite any credible sources or examples to support your position? Also, I'm pretty sure that a lot of people who seriously do want to do acts of extreme violence with a firearm are at least smart enough to shut the fuck up until after their background check goes through and they're off with the item. It's not always obvious to the average person if a particular individual is planning something, especially post-Columbine and 9/11, where pretty much any innocuous comment is treated in a ridiculously serious manner. Those who are serious about it, if they are smart enough to, can avoid getting caught until it's time, and those who do end up on the radar sometimes even get let go due to a lack of actionable evidence. Nikolas Cruz's teachers had warned the FBI about him, maybe more than once, but nothing came of it. Elliot Rodger also had a "welfare check" by law enforcement that fostered no real results, as he put on a friendly face and told them it was all a misunderstanding. So even if there is something "off" about a person, it's not always actionable, unless you want to go "lock up anyone who doesn't seem exactly like a normie" route.

Is it an unnecessary shift of the burden of proof to demand that people take a test in order to be allowed to drive on public roads? Is it a violation of privacy and doctor-patient confidentiality to require that people who are medically unfit to drive should make that known to the relevant authorities?

One is a constitutional right, the other is not. Do you think it's fair to license people to allow them to post opinions on internet message boards? Or to fine and jail them for having an opinion that runs counter to that which society deems "acceptable?" How about being required to let law enforcement into my house any time they want, to "prove" that I am "not doing anything wrong?"

Driving is not in the Bill of Rights, but you could make a spirited argument against requiring drivers to be licensed under the Ninth Amendment, saying that it restricts one's freedom to travel throughout the country. This may not necessarily be true as other options exist, but I can see where such a thing is coming from. But that being said, licensing drivers does almost nothing to keep idiots off the road, but it sure does provide revenue for state governments. And anyone with at least a room temperature IQ can at least pass the written test in a lot of states, and you can retake it as much as you like. And you can take both written and physical as many times as you are willing to pay for.

Besides, treating firearms like we treat vehicles, with licensing, tabs, etc., is probably not a good idea, as governments have a vested interest in not allowing their subjects, er, I mean, "citizens," to be armed. This has been true of almost any government throughout history. Maybe it sounds good in theory and I can understand where a person could be coming from on this, but in practice, a lot of registration forms will be either deliberately delayed or "forgotten" entirely. New Jersey is pretty notorious for this from what I have heard.

This is a defeatist statement that lacks any strength of conviction. Of course there are going to be some disturbed people who will want to do disturbed things, but that doesn't mean that we have to resign ourselves to that fact and refuse to take steps to reduce the chances of it happening. There are plenty of European countries that are measurably a lot freer than the United States, and yet they have much tighter controls on firearms. How could this be possible?

My point is, that maybe we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water. Trying to crack down on "disturbed" people casts a huge net, and it's very difficult to deny people their rights without taking it through the court system and proving it there with solid evidence. How hard is this to understand? Besides, there is a massive stigma with mental health in the US, and many people who have problems, even minor ones, are afraid to speak up because they could lose their rights and credibility. The Obama administration wanted to deny many returning veterans their right to keep and bear arms, due to allegations of PTSD or "political extremism" that many may have been exposed to. Most people with mental health problems aren't even that dangerous, except maybe to themselves. The kinds of people that genuinely think that "zombies from Mars want to sodomize their souls and eat their brains" or whatever crazy shit are not all that common.

And what kind of European countries are supposedly "freer" than the US, firearm regs aside? The fucking UK? Pfff, they're actually convicting people of "hate crimes" for making idiotic videos of dogs saluting Hitler or posting "offensive" rap lyrics on Instagram. And the police had to struggle to find someone to pretend to be offended to get a conviction. To say nothing of them going after knives now, leftist/progressive types will never be satisfied. In the US, they can't even get the DNC out of debt, nor find another "pet cause" to rally around. Trannies and gun control are total non-starters there. And France isn't much better than the UK freedom wise from what I hear, at least on the Internet "hate crime" part.

As I have stated, I have nothing against civilian gun ownership, and if you support the right of law-abiding citizens to own guns within reasonable limits, then I am on your side. If however, you have bought into the myths that having more guns in society is automatically better, that any legislation designed to curb them from being used malevolently is futile, or that your political freedom is somehow centrally dependent upon your ability to keep a gun, then I am afraid to say that you are delusional.

On a related note, I find that people who try to draw a link between guns and freedom usually tend to be people who measure freedom solely in terms of the freedom to own firearms. Don't be one of those people.

There are plenty of reasonable limits already in place , the laws that are needed already exist for the most part. (NFA, Brady Bill, FOPA 1986, state laws, etc.) It's not always easy to enforce laws surrounding what is seen by many as an inalienable right, and when done, it's not often in the right place. The public is often told to focus on "Oh My God This Gun Looks SCARY" type shit instead of things that would honestly stand a chance of making it anywhere into law, let alone any kind of difference. The only certain way to make any substantial difference, legally speaking, is to perhaps amend the Constitution to reduce or eliminate the 2nd entirely. This would require a lot of support that just isn't there right now, but could be at some future time, depending on how foolish the public might be at any given time. I think it's a very bad idea for a number of reasons, but it's probably the only way any truly substantial change in firearm laws in the US is going to come along. The whole thing has been so ridiculously polarized that even simple mental health screenings are difficult to get enacted, because many people feel that the government has no right to deny them something they see as protected by the Bill of Rights. These kinds of things lose elections in many places, whether lobbyist groups get involved or not.

RKBA in itself is not the sole indicator of personal and political freedom in any given country or state, but it most certainly does have a strong correlation. Those who want guns banned are often the types who want to control other things as well, and seem to put their faith in institutions rather than individuals. I know this because I have family like this and it's kind of sad, really. People who think we can just make laws and magically whisk away all the world's ills are the delusional ones here, not the people who associate firearm ownership with freedom. The delusional types, like racism and alcohol poisoning, do exist, however, they are way overplayed and overexaggerated for political points or for laughs, depending on the social circle and the situation.

Honestly, the whole debate's been hijacked by people who want firearms to magically disappear with the stroke of a pen, and those who want to be able to order online and instantly have them teleported USS Enterprise style right into their living rooms. I could personally get behind a mental health test or something like that, if it actually worked, but such a plan is so full of holes it might as well be Swiss cheese. Plus, there's the whole "hurr durr guvamint ain't gunna tell me whattado" crowd, who won't stand for such a thing in the first place.

One last exhibit: the states with the strictest gun control are generally lower on the personal freedom scale compared to other states, with California and New York being the two worst. The bottom five are also Democrat mainly, go figure. The bottom ten have Kentucky but that's about it for the non-Democrat states in that range.

https://www.freedominthe50states.org/
 
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