Google Stadia General Discussion - Like any other gaming platform, but worse.

[Toolbox]

Amazon Luna.
There's also Nvidia's GeForce Now and Microsoft's Xbox Game Pass streaming, which are actually doing pretty well by not trying to outright replace normal games.

I'm still unsure about the supposed success of these services, for one it probably doesn't cost all that much for a company like nvidia or microsoft to host this stuff, so making their money back is likely easy even with relatively few customers compared with consoles and especially the pc market. And I suspect that Microsoft could easily be fudging any streaming numbers by claiming that game pass users in general could fall under the category, even if they are just getting the deals on downloadable games. Amazon Luna I am sure is going to be the next abject failure, because they were trying to go all in on it like Google, but they have seemed to dial that back. Nvidia and Microsoft have done this for so long because they are just supplemental services to their already existing attempts at marketplaces or currently existing ones.

 

[moocow]

I will never understand people who insist "oh the lag's not that bad!" or the especially crazy ones who say "there's no lag at all! You can't even tell!"

It's physically impossible to provide a no-lag remote gaming experience. I'm not using hyperbole; I quite literally mean the laws of physics tell us (at least according to our current understanding) nothing can go faster than C (speed of light in a vacuum), so it must always take a non-zero length of time for data from your computer to reach the server on the other end, and a similar non-zero length of time for the response to come back. Even if the bulk of the route the data travels is carried over fiber optic cable, that just speeds it up but does not make it instantaneous. And it is exceedingly rare for your local internet link (so-called "last mile") to be fiber rather than copper or even wireless, so that adds latency too.

Every step of the process introduces latency. Input from your controller takes time to reach your machine's CPU and the game engine. The game engine introduces latency processing the input, computing the appropriate result, preparing the next frame and sending it to the GPU to render. The GPU introduces latency rendering the frame. Then the GPU introduces more latency sending the finished frame to the display driver (whatever that is). That's regular local input lag. Unavoidable.

Now add remote (internet-based) interfaces to this. Now there's additional latency between your machine's CPU receiving your input and the remote server receiving it: CPU-to-network-interface adds latency, every hop between your machine and the server (there could be a dozen or more) adds latency, Stadia's firewall adds latency, network-interface-to-server-CPU adds latency. Then add all the above latency for "local" gaming, because that all still happens.

Then add yet more latency getting each rendered frame back to you: feed frame to stream format encoder (latency), actually encode it (latency), feed stream data to network interface (more latency), send it back to the client (back across all those latency-adding hops), into the client's network interface and the client's CPU (more latency). Then decode it (latency) and feed it to the GPU (additional latency) to display it.

Come the fuck on, who genuinely thought a playable system could emerge from all this? I know tons of people claimed they could, but I firmly believe they knew they were selling snake oil. That or they were overly optimistic about quantum entanglement both somehow actually enabling FTL data transmission and becoming commercially viable, affordable and available to consumers within a year or so.

lol.

 

[Pinball 2000]

Come the fuck on, who genuinely thought a playable system could emerge from all this? I know tons of people claimed they could, but I firmly believe they knew they were selling snake oil. That or they were overly optimistic about quantum entanglement both somehow actually enabling FTL data transmission and becoming commercially viable, affordable and available to consumers within a year or so.

The funniest thing about Stadia (to me at least) is that I could see it having SOME marketability if they made literally any attempt to work around the shortcomings that game streaming has, specifically input lag. There are plenty of turn-based games that wouldn't be as hampered by latency; turn-based stuff like Civilization, X-COM, Enter the Breach, most digital board games, etc. Sure, the latency and input lag would still suck, but it wouldn't cost you a game since games like that involve clicking through menus.

Instead, Stadia seemed focused entirely on games that required fast, precise inputs. Stuff like fighting games, racers, and shooters. Games where a misplaced shot or misstep can easily result in the AI kicking your face in. Google just threw whatever random games they could get the license to on Stadia and just assumed the money would magically materialize.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

 

[Becky McDonald]

Ultimately, the only way Stadia could have fathomably worked is if they had a PHYSICAL UNIT.

Essentially a cut-down PC with a basic UI, an ability to make one's own games (a la Ouya) along with a dedicated marketplace, no onboard hard drive (but an offline data transfer option), and could be upgraded with off-the-shelf parts. Do you know how much money Google could have made with that business model? Shitloads. Price it lower than a comparable offering from Sony or MS, and the amount of sales they'd see from third world nations alone would justify its existence.

But no, they had to be special snowflakes and make some IoT garbage that didn't even exist, which predictably went belly up after a handful of years.

 

[Pissmaster]

I will never understand people who insist "oh the lag's not that bad!" or the especially crazy ones who say "there's no lag at all! You can't even tell!"

It wasn't even just laggy, it was inconsistently laggy. It already sucks enough to try and line up a shot with normal localized lag, like from an early HDTV or something, but there are just so many layers your game had to go through that things got unavoidably messy. Whomever had to work towards mitigating all of that, God bless your soul, because you did about the best possible job on solving a literally impossible task.

The funniest thing about Stadia (to me at least) is that I could see it having SOME marketability if they made literally any attempt to work around the shortcomings that game streaming has, specifically input lag. There are plenty of turn-based games that wouldn't be as hampered by latency; turn-based stuff like Civilization, X-COM, Enter the Breach, most digital board games, etc. Sure, the latency and input lag would still suck, but it wouldn't cost you a game since games like that involve clicking through menus.

I'll go as far as to even argue against that, because even smartphones can handle just about any digital board game now, and a perk of Stadia was that you could run games your machine couldn't handle on its own. Plus, like, even menu lag sucks. It feels gross to tap through a menu on a D-pad and have everything happening like a half-second behind, and it really sucks when you accidentally click something you didn't mean to, and can't go back.

Instead, Stadia seemed focused entirely on games that required fast, precise inputs. Stuff like fighting games, racers, and shooters. Games where a misplaced shot or misstep can easily result in the AI kicking your face in. Google just threw whatever random games they could get the license to on Stadia and just assumed the money would magically materialize.

Yeah, and all of that kinda shit really goes to show they had no clue what they're doing. They really did treat it exactly like Netflix.

 

[Pinball 2000]

Ultimately, the only way Stadia could have fathomably worked is if they had a PHYSICAL UNIT.

Essentially a cut-down PC with a basic UI, an ability to make one's own games (a la Ouya) along with a dedicated marketplace, no onboard hard drive (but an offline data transfer option), and could be upgraded with off-the-shelf parts. Do you know how much money Google could have made with that business model? Shitloads. Price it lower than a comparable offering from Sony or MS, and the amount of sales they'd see from third world nations alone would justify its existence.

But no, they had to be special snowflakes and make some IoT garbage that didn't even exist, which predictably went belly up after a handful of years.

Boy, do I have some news for you. Logitech is already trying this:

This is basically an android tablet that is explicitly designed for streaming games. The actual specs of this tablet are weak so it can barely run anything natively, yet it somehow costs $350. It's technically not released yet, but early reviews are not great.

 

[Toolbox]

Boy, do I have some news for you. Logitech is already trying this:
View attachment 3745174
This is basically an android tablet that is explicitly designed for streaming games. The actual specs of this tablet are weak so it can barely run anything natively, yet it somehow costs $350. It's technically not released yet, but early reviews are not great.

I saw that shit in an ad, didn't want to bother looking at the details because it looks like a rebadged dime a dozen chinese gaming tablet. Is this really Logitech trying to compete with the steam deck, because if so this is pathetic.

 

[Becky McDonald]

Boy, do I have some news for you. Logitech is already trying this:
View attachment 3745174
This is basically an android tablet that is explicitly designed for streaming games. The actual specs of this tablet are weak so it can barely run anything natively, yet it somehow costs $350. It's technically not released yet, but early reviews are not great.

I was thinking more along the lines of a simple, Wii-sized/shaped box with some basic PC guts inside, room to expand if the user wants to buy/fit some beefier parts to it, and an optical media tray which connects to an owner's TV. A game console that's really just a thinly-disguised PC with its own proprietary OS. This is just a Stadia with extra steps and the added caveat of a cheap, nasty deck.

 

[Toolbox]

I was thinking more along the lines of a simple, Wii-sized/shaped box with some basic PC guts inside, room to expand if the user wants to buy/fit some beefier parts to it, and an optical media tray which connects to an owner's TV. A game console that's really just a thinly-disguised PC with its own proprietary OS. This is just a Stadia with extra steps and the added caveat of a cheap, nasty deck.

I don't know what niche these companies are trying to fill that Nintendo doesn't already capture with the switch or Valve does with the deck. The switch has the added features of first party Nintendo titles, interesting controllers and different ways to configure them, physical releases of games. The deck has the entire steam library, provided (at the current time) you're willing to mess around with it for most games, dual touchpads for added mouselike input, and four back paddles as additional configurable buttons.

 

[Kikkoman]

I guess they think theres money in it because razer announced another one yesterday. If i wanted to stream games on a big phone i'd just spend $20 on one of those clips that fit on xbox controllers, not this shit.

 

[Pissmaster]

I guess they think theres money in it because razer announced another one yesterday. If i wanted to stream games on a big phone i'd just spend $20 on one of those clips that fit on xbox controllers, not this shit.

View attachment 3745729

View attachment 3745733

What the fuck? Starting at $400? That's how much the Steam deck starts at, and that's an actual full-fledged computer that plays games locally.

 

[Toolbox]

I guess they think theres money in it because razer announced another one yesterday. If i wanted to stream games on a big phone i'd just spend $20 on one of those clips that fit on xbox controllers, not this shit.

View attachment 3745729

View attachment 3745733

Razer has had a long history of making shit like this and it then failing, to be fair. So they have development and business experience even if the latter hasn't been that great.

Nearly 10 years ago.

 

[anustart76]

It wasn't even just laggy, it was inconsistently laggy. It already sucks enough to try and line up a shot with normal localized lag, like from an early HDTV or something, but there are just so many layers your game had to go through that things got unavoidably messy. Whomever had to work towards mitigating all of that, God bless your soul, because you did about the best possible job on solving a literally impossible task.


I'll go as far as to even argue against that, because even smartphones can handle just about any digital board game now, and a perk of Stadia was that you could run games your machine couldn't handle on its own. Plus, like, even menu lag sucks. It feels gross to tap through a menu on a D-pad and have everything happening like a half-second behind, and it really sucks when you accidentally click something you didn't mean to, and can't go back.


Yeah, and all of that kinda shit really goes to show they had no clue what they're doing. They really did treat it exactly like Netflix.

They treated it like Netflix except where they should have, the business model.

 

[quaawaa]

I will never understand people who insist "oh the lag's not that bad!" or the especially crazy ones who say "there's no lag at all! You can't even tell!"

It's physically impossible to provide a no-lag remote gaming experience. I'm not using hyperbole; I quite literally mean the laws of physics tell us (at least according to our current understanding) nothing can go faster than C (speed of light in a vacuum), so it must always take a non-zero length of time for data from your computer to reach the server on the other end, and a similar non-zero length of time for the response to come back.

It could never beat a well put together PC, but its lag on a high end connection was similar to someone playing a console game with a wireless controller on an TV set to movie mode, which a lot of players are used to and put up with. It had some latency reducing tricks like having the controller directly talk to the server over the internet instead of talking to the computer like all other game streaming services do. It was perfectly playable for games that don't require fast reaction times and its major issue was the insane amount of bandwidth that it used.

Ultimately, the only way Stadia could have fathomably worked is if they had a PHYSICAL UNIT.

Chromecasts and Android-based Smart TVs acted as a console for it, so they undercut everyone with the hardware costs. Their major problems were none of their unique features ended up existing (live joining a steamer from their YouTube stream, no 1000 player action games, their game studio never released a game) meaning there was no reason to try it and they had a poor selection of games and what games they did had were expensive and old.

 

[TheRetardKing]

Imagine getting a Stadia for Christmas... In 2022.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Razer has had a long history of making shit like this and it then failing, to be fair. So they have development and business experience even if the latter hasn't been that great.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nTjBqiFr1Q4Nearly 10 years ago.

Doesn't steam deck sellat a great loss?

 

[ZMOT]

Doesn't steam deck sellat a great loss?

 

[Celebrate Nite]

I will never understand people who insist "oh the lag's not that bad!" or the especially crazy ones who say "there's no lag at all! You can't even tell!"

Normalfags are retarded when it comes to that sort of thing and don't notice details like frame data and such.

One of my exs had a Nintendo Wii with one of the "Just Dance" games (the one that had LMFAO's Party Rock... just so you know how long ago this was). Everytime we played it on her living room TV (which was an HD flatscreen) at her place, the final scores would always be like around 70% accuracy. I tried that shit at my own place with a CRT-TV, and the score shot up to like around 90% accuracy. For the record, she was using the regular composite cables. Not sure if upgrading her set-up to component would make a difference, even hd tv's back then had noticeable input lag if it was anything other than HDMI.

 

[ZMOT]

Normalfags are retarded when it comes to that sort of thing and don't notice details like frame data and such.

One of my exs had a Nintendo Wii with one of the "Just Dance" games (the one that had LMFAO's Party Rock... just so you know how long ago this was). Everytime we played it on her living room TV (which was an HD flatscreen) at her place, the final scores would always be like around 70% accuracy. I tried that shit at my own place with a CRT-TV, and the score shot up to like around 90% accuracy. For the record, she was using the regular composite cables. Not sure if upgrading her set-up to component would make a difference, even hd tv's back then had noticeable input lag if it was anything other than HDMI.

flatscreens have a quite filters running by default to improve image quality, which works for tv/movies but increase the inputlag. newer ones have a dedicated "gamer mode" etc that disables most of it, you could try that (might be called different depending on the age on the tv).