General Wrestling Discussion

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BigJoey41X said:
>find out theres a pro wrestling thread
>see inside
>discussion about the personal politics of old wrestlers
you people fucking disappoint me, at least I try to keep my sperging off of non-political threads
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You're not going to be able to go anywhere on the internet for the next two weeks without seeing politisperging.

This thread is comfy, just give it a chance.
 
GloryHole Stalker said:
And no Bob Backlund on the list?... at all?!? Dude was the WWF Champion for almost 6 Years (5 years, 10 months). He improved the companies wrestling quality in that spot, as before then, Bruno (as massively over as he was) and most of the rest of the roster was of the punch, stomp, rest hold variety and Backlund brought a faster paced NWA style to the Fed. Not to mention, the WWF underwent a mini expansion during his reign. One of the reasons Vince the elder picked Backlund is they needed someone more "wholesome" as the figurehead so they could expand out from the metro areas into the suburbs. They needed someone to appeal to, quite frankly, someone like me. The hairy strongman (Bruno) wasn't gonna cut it. Financially speaking, the WWF was more successful with Backlund in the top spot than they had ever been before. Vince the younger really did Backlunds legacy a disservice by completely burying him (and everything pre 1984) once he took over.
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yeah its unfortunate but a lot of pre-85 wrestling might as well be non-canon, a lot of wrestling fans (myself included) grew up well after that period of national expansion under Vince and Hogan, ive seen clips of Backlund and hes great in-ring, he did have that run in the early 90s and even then a lot of fans didn't remember him, I was talking with my older cousin once and he said making Backlund a transitional champion to hot shot on the belt to Diesel was a disgrace and a disservice to both Bret and Backlund who were far better in-ring
 
GloryHole Stalker said:
And no Bob Backlund on the list?... at all?!? Dude was the WWF Champion for almost 6 Years (5 years, 10 months). He improved the companies wrestling quality in that spot, as before then, Bruno (as massively over as he was) and most of the rest of the roster was of the punch, stomp, rest hold variety and Backlund brought a faster paced NWA style to the Fed. Not to mention, the WWF underwent a mini expansion during his reign. One of the reasons Vince the elder picked Backlund is they needed someone more "wholesome" as the figurehead so they could expand out from the metro areas into the suburbs. They needed someone to appeal to, quite frankly, someone like me. The hairy strongman (Bruno) wasn't gonna cut it. Financially speaking, the WWF was more successful with Backlund in the top spot than they had ever been before. Vince the younger really did Backlunds legacy a disservice by completely burying him (and everything pre 1984) once he took over.
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Problem was that by '82 Backlund had a lot of go away heat after being pushed for so long. It wasn't like he was an ethnic hero such as Sammartino or Pedro Morales who would have a dedicated cohort showing up to every show just because he was the same ethnicity as them. People got bored with one champ on top for so long and began to turn on him. If you are noticing the WWE has a few fundamental problems that keep cropping up no matter what era.

Caddo Cobgang said:
yeah its unfortunate but a lot of pre-85 wrestling might as well be non-canon, a lot of wrestling fans (myself included) grew up well after that period of national expansion under Vince and Hogan, ive seen clips of Backlund and hes great in-ring, he did have that run in the early 90s and even then a lot of fans didn't remember him, I was talking with my older cousin once and he said making Backlund a transitional champion to hot shot on the belt to Diesel was a disgrace and a disservice to both Bret and Backlund who were far better in-ring
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Old man Backlund was dimes. Also it is really really funny to me that in 1992 a wrestler who was 43 years old was considered so old that he could be treated like a senile and out of touch geezer and no one batted an eye. He was four years older than Cody or Roman are and seven years younger than Adam Copeland or Christian Cage are right now.
 
Caddo Cobgang said:
yeah its unfortunate but a lot of pre-85 wrestling might as well be non-canon, a lot of wrestling fans (myself included) grew up well after that period of national expansion under Vince and Hogan, ive seen clips of Backlund and hes great in-ring, he did have that run in the early 90s and even then a lot of fans didn't remember him, I was talking with my older cousin once and he said making Backlund a transitional champion to hot shot on the belt to Diesel was a disgrace and a disservice to both Bret and Backlund who were far better in-ring
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I was quite happy with his 2nd run (once he turned heel, even I knew his goody 2 shoe gimmick wouldn't work with the audience at the time), and was thrilled that Backlund got the belt again. I was pissed when, just a week later, I see that Vince had Diesel squash him, at MSG of all places. According to Backlund's book, his run was supposed to last several months, and he was supposed to drop the belt back to Hart (If I'm remembering this correctly). Apparently, Randy Savage leaving left a void in top babyfaces, so Vince decided to strap that rocket to Kevin Nash's ass... what a disappointment.
 
GloryHole Stalker said:
I was quite happy with his 2nd run (once he turned heel, even I knew his goody 2 shoe gimmick wouldn't work with the audience at the time), and was thrilled that Backlund got the belt again. I was pissed when, just a week later, I see that Vince had Diesel squash him, at MSG of all places. According to Backlund's book, his run was supposed to last several months, and he was supposed to drop the belt back to Hart (If I'm remembering this correctly). Apparently, Randy Savage leaving left a void in top babyfaces
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Macho was 40 at the time and the whole reason he left was because Vince thought he was too old to work and wanted him to just become an announcer*
*and allegedly Macho fucked a 16 year old Stephanie in the ass

GloryHole Stalker said:
so Vince decided to strap that rocket to Kevin Nash's ass... what a disappointment.
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Come on, ya gonna keep softballing them like that?
Rape victim.jpg
 
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@ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni said...
Problem was that by '82 Backlund had a lot of go away heat after being pushed for so long. It wasn't like he was an ethnic hero such as Sammartino or Pedro Morales who would have a dedicated cohort showing up to every show just because he was the same ethnicity as them. People got bored with one champ on top for so long and began to turn on him. If you are noticing the WWE has a few fundamental problems that keep cropping up no matter what era.

After his feud with Jimmy Snuka, he did cool off a bit, but some (not all) of that can be laid at Vince the younger's feet, as that is also when he took over unofficially from his dad. The follow up challengers past Snuka (following Snuka was going to be hard for anyone, he was on fire at the time) weren't much to write home about. Bob Orton Jr and Buddy Rose were good wrestlers with decent gimmicks, but they weren't seen as much after Snuka. Bob's feud with Billy Graham took a lot of shine off him. Billy was reintroduced by showing up on TV and destroying the belt, and Bob's reaction was to "cry". It was probably the single worst moment of his reign. The followup was garbage because Graham was in the midst of drug dependency and looked like shit. "83 was mostly retreads (Muraco, Slaughter, Koloff, The Samoans, Valentine too I think) and Bob didn't do himself any favors by leaning into his amateur background, making himself even more bland. Business was still great, but both sides (Vince and Bob) could have done better. Bob's "go away heat" was with goofs like Meltzer. watch the old videos. He's still getting good/great reactions from the live crowds (less so in Philly) business was still great. Vince K. was ready to move on, but Backlund still had plenty of life in him. My personal, "what if" is if Vince bought Orndorff, Piper and Schultz in, in early 83 instead of late 83 (and saved them or Hogan) . Backlund could have great feuds with all of them.
 
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GloryHole Stalker said:
@ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni said...
Problem was that by '82 Backlund had a lot of go away heat after being pushed for so long. It wasn't like he was an ethnic hero such as Sammartino or Pedro Morales who would have a dedicated cohort showing up to every show just because he was the same ethnicity as them. People got bored with one champ on top for so long and began to turn on him. If you are noticing the WWE has a few fundamental problems that keep cropping up no matter what era.

After his feud with Jimmy Snuka, he did cool off a bit, but some (not all) of that can be laid at Vince the younger's feet, as that is also when he took over unofficially from his dad. The follow up challengers past Snuka (following Snuka was going to be hard for anyone, he was on fire at the time) weren't much to write home about. Bob Orton Jr and Buddy Rose were good wrestlers with decent gimmicks, but they weren't seen as much after Snuka. Bob's feud with Billy Graham took a lot of shine off him. Billy was reintroduced by showing up on TV and destroying the belt, and Bob's reaction was to "cry". It was probably the single worst moment of his reign. The followup was garbage because Graham was in the midst of drug dependency and looked like shit. "83 was mostly retreads (Muraco, Slaughter, Koloff, The Samoans, Valentine too I think) and Bob didn't do himself any favors by leaning into his amateur background, making himself even more bland. Business was still great, but both sides (Vinc and Bob) could have done better.
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Buddy Rose was great, but other than a few spots here and there in the WWF for a payday he was pretty much carrying the entire PNW territory.
82-83ish are all kind of a blur to me. I think was Wrestling from MSG or Prime Time Wrestling when Sheik beat BACKlund. Also that was when they began to start running vignettes like the Muraco and Fuji Miami Vice knockoff, or that one Dating Show gimmick with a proto Hart Foundation consisting of Bret, Neidhart, and someone else. I sat down and watched through a couple of years of Prime Time on Peacock either late last year and early this year and it honestly all became a bit of a blur. It wasn't until the Hulkster returned to the WWE and Hulkamania began that the promotion feels like it is really starting to become hot.

Like him or not Hulk had so much charisma and personality that he could carry an entire promotion on his shoulders and turn it from lukewarm to boiling hot in just a few weeks.
 
The first two nights of Stardom's tag league tournament that just wrapped up were both freaking phenomenal shows. Mayu Iwatani in particular was beyond incredible.

Sayaka Kurara with this awesome sell of the mist.
 
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@ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni said... (I don't know why I can't reply to your posts)
Buddy Rose was great, but other than a few spots here and there in the WWF for a payday he was pretty much carrying the entire PNW territory.
82-83ish are all kind of a blur to me. I think was Wrestling from MSG or Prime Time Wrestling when Sheik beat BACKlund. Also that was when they began to start running vignettes like the Muraco and Fuji Miami Vice knockoff, or that one Dating Show gimmick with a proto Hart Foundation consisting of Bret, Neidhart, and someone else. I sat down and watched through a couple of years of Prime Time on Peacock either late last year and early this year and it honestly all became a bit of a blur. It wasn't until the Hulkster returned to the WWE and Hulkamania began that the promotion feels like it is really starting to become hot.

Like him or not Hulk had so much charisma and personality that he could carry an entire promotion on his shoulders and turn it from lukewarm to boiling hot in just a few weeks.

The Fugi Vice stuff, and similar, begun, I'm fairly certain in 85. Very late 84 at the earliest. 1984 was something of a transition year for the WWF, as it was still booked mostly like it had been when Vince the elder was in charge. It also still had that "grittiness" about it that was completely gone by 86/87.

Despite my extreme disappointment in the departure of Backlund, I was pretty enthusiastic about Hogan at first... maybe for about a year or more, but it became obvious at a certain point (1986 or so) that he was content to do the bare minimum in the ring, and even then, his matches were very, very cookie cutter. Seen one, seen 'em all.

In Hogan's defense, all he really needed to do was show up. he had Charisma and Magnetism out the ass, a money look and for the promos needed at the time was a 10/10...on the Bret Hart scale Brother!

I, however, got tired of his, and the WWF's bullshit and when I discovered JCP. I never really looked back.
 
Kaizer Ghidorah said:
If he was allowed to continue after the stossel incident David Schultz could have really gone places tbh his character wouldn't have even felt out of place in a time like the attitude era if he lasted that long
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Stone Cold Steve Ramen was gigabased.
Stone Cold Steve Ramen.jpg
>so tough he got told to work less stiff when kayfabe was alive
>put the fear of God in John Stossel
>slapped up Japanese reporters like it was his job
>made Mr T quiver in his chains so much he called the cops
>verbally buries no dime shitters on national television
>buries the entire city of San Francisco and Hogan in one promo, still has Hogan respect
>worked Vince McMahon into a shoot to the point he was scared of Dr D
>gets fired for being too tough
>works the independent scene and is so dimes Vince seethes and makes promoters stop booking him
>quits wrestling cause everyone is a pussy
>becomes a bounty hunter to put his tough guy credentials to good use
>saves two girls from being sex trafficked
>makes a good living being a bounty hunter
>makes John Stossel seethe to this very day
>at 69 years old drives a tractor trailer shipping cotton

Edit: Documentary about Raven is set to be coming out soon.
The man behind pro wrestling’s punk rock revolution.
“Wrestling is such a brutal business, it doesn’t surprise people that it attracts sociopaths, fame whores, coke whores and adrenaline whores, but why did it attract an artist?” Asks Billy Corgan, frontman for the Smashing Pumpkins and wrestling promoter. It’s the question posed in Nevermore: The Raven Effect, which examines a pivotal shift in wrestling history, through the eyes of Raven, a brilliant but complicated performer who simultaneously self-destructs while establishing the tone of ECW, an exciting, but extreme and hazardous indy wrestling promotion that features bloody matches, involving real weapons.
Featuring: Raven, Chris Jericho, Billy Corgan, Rob Van Dam, Diamond Dallas Page, Bubba Ray Dudley, Tommy Dreamer, The Sandman, Perry Saturn, Kevin Sullivan, Blue Meanie, Shane Douglas, Lodi, Brian Meyers, D'Lo Brown, Buff Bagwell, Sami Callihan, Moose, Scott D'Amore
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Caddo Cobgang said:
yeah its unfortunate but a lot of pre-85 wrestling might as well be non-canon, a lot of wrestling fans (myself included) grew up well after that period of national expansion under Vince and Hogan, ive seen clips of Backlund and hes great in-ring, he did have that run in the early 90s and even then a lot of fans didn't remember him, I was talking with my older cousin once and he said making Backlund a transitional champion to hot shot on the belt to Diesel was a disgrace and a disservice to both Bret and Backlund who were far better in-ring
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I was one of the millions of little Hulkamaniacs and I'm guilty of not caring much about pre-1985 wrestling. 1987-ish to 1992 WWF is my personal favorite autistic comfy zone.
 
ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni said:
Macho was 40 at the time and the whole reason he left was because Vince thought he was too old to work and wanted him to just become an announcer*
*and allegedly Macho fucked a 16 year old Stephanie in the ass
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That rumor is so strange.

There was never talk about it until an internet message board, in the early 2000s, had a thread where it was just "make up the most absurd but believable rumor you can think of" and someone posted it. Suddenly, it took off. Most people in the industry were like "that is fucking retarded". Cornette, for example, said "I never heard a whisper of it while I was there, I think it's just a dumb urban legend". However, Meltzer said it was probably true because people he talked to believed it and Cornette changed his tune since a book came out that said it was the reason why and he knows the author.

Me? I think it's bullshit. Cornette was pretty high up and said that he never even heard whispers of it, and we all know that Meltzer is not exactly the most reliable when it comes to narratives. Macho did get that nice sendoff from Vince and Vince did try to re-sign him in 1997 and 1999, too.

Vince did want nothing to do with Macho Man after he left, but I think that was more due to Slim Jim leaving the WWF and going to WCW (with a huge contract that more than paid for Macho Man itself) after the replacements for their ads didn't work. Shortly before he died, Macho was working on coming back, too.
 
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