General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

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How come in every transgender story or person I have ever seen or heard about, its always a male wanting to be turned into a girl? I've never seen a woman want to be turned into a male.

Basically males that say they identify as female can just walk into a woman's rest room and do whatever they want.

No wonder woman are scared with people like that around.
 
Evening Kiwi's,
Just to give an insight in how far the ideiology has spread, this is what arrived in our inbox in (academic) hospitals all over Europe: Sex, Gender and Intersectionality. They even cite Crenshaw. Medicine is fucked if there is no pushback.

But I invite critical kiwi's:
1. in what way would distinction by Gender be meaningful for daily clinical practice ?
2. in how far do you agree with the statement as outlined below "Gendered behaviours and attitudes are learned; they are neither fixed nor universal. Nonetheless, gendered experiences can affect biology"? I would argue that certain tendencies are very much influenced by sex and in how far the brain is virilised by testosteron, e.g. feminine/masculine/metrosexual straight men, feminine/masculine/metrosexual gay men, feminine/masculine/metrosexual TransIdentified men and the same for feminine/masculine/metrosexual gay/metro/hetero/bi/ transidentified women.

It really reads to me like they are putting the horse before the cart when they start talking about gender...

Anyway, enjoy!

Edit: paging @eternal dog mongler @Positron (ignore if not interesting enough)
Sex ‘Sex’ refers to biology. In humans, ‘sex’ refers to the biological attributes that distinguish male, female and intersex. In non-human animals, ‘sex’ refers to biological attributes that distinguish male, female and hermaphrodite. In engineering and product design research, sex includes anatomical and physiological characteristics that may affect the design of products, systems and processes. Defining sex for biomedical research: humans and lab animals Sex relates to the biological attributes that distinguish male, female and intersex according to functions that derive from the chromosomal complement, reproductive organs, or specific hormones or environmental factors that affect the expression of phenotypic traits in sexually reproducing organisms. These attributes may or may not be aligned in any individual (Fausto-Sterling, 2012; Ainsworth, 2015). Sex may be defined according to the following. 1. Genetic sex determination: chromosomal make-up, generally XX/ XY for most mammals. The presence of sex-determining genes means that every nucleated human cell has a sex. 2. Gametes: germ cells. In species that produce two morphologically distinct types of gametes, the egg–sperm distinction is the basis for distinguishing between females and males. 3. Morphology: physical traits that differentiate female and male phenotypes. a. Primary sex characteristics in humans and other mammals include the following. i. Internal reproductive organs and genitalia derive from bipotential organs (e.g. indifferent gonads that become ovaries or testes) and dual structures. Usually, one structure is maintained and the other regressed. ii. External genitalia generally differentiate towards one of two basic forms: distal vagina, labia and clitoris in females, and scrotum and penis in males. Nevertheless, external genitalia may not reflect karyotypical or internal genital sex (Fausto-Sterling, 2000). b. Secondary sex characteristics in humans and many other animals are phenotypic traits strongly associated with females or males that become prominent at puberty under the influence of endogenous oestrogens in females and androgens in males. Examples of secondary sex characteristics in humans include shorter stature and wider pelvis, breast development, and more fat in the thighs and buttocks in females, and broader shoulders, greater muscle mass, more facial and other body hair, and male pattern baldness in males. These traits vary within each sex, and ranges overlap. For instance, many women are taller than many men and some women are stronger than many men. >> SEX refers to biological characteristics 12 Intersex conditions may be defined as variations or combinations of what are considered XY male-typical and XX female-typical chromosomal, gonadal and genital characteristics. In some cases, intersex individuals (ranging from 1:100 to 1:4 500 depending on the criteria used) have genitalia or other traits not easily categorised as male or female (Kessler, 1998; Karkazis, 2008; Arboleda et al., 2014; Jones, 2018). Defining sex for research in non-human animals Sex relates to biological attributes that distinguish male, female and hermaphrodite. Sex may be defined according to the following. 1. Genetic sex determination: chromosomal make-up (female/male), such as XX/XY (mammals), ZW/ZZ (birds and some insects) and XX/XO (insects). Regardless of karyotype, the presence of sex-determining genes means that every nucleated cell has a sex. 2. Non-genetic sex determination: common in many species (Gilbert, 2010). These are diverse and include the following. a. Social sex determination. For a number of fish, mollusc and other species, sex is determined through social interactions with other members of a population. In the slipper limpet Crepidula fornicata, all young individuals are male but some later change to female, depending on their position in a mound of snails. b. Environmental sex determination. In the echiuran worm Bonellia viridis, sex is determined by physical environment. Larvae that land on the ocean floor develop as females (~10 cm long), whereas larvae that are engulfed by a mature female through her proboscis develop as males (~2 mm long) and live symbiotically. In all crocodilians, most turtles and some other reptiles, sex determination is determined partially or entirely by temperature. In certain species, sex is genetically determined within a temperature range but environmentally determined outside that range. 3. Gametes: germ cells. In species that produce two morphologically distinct types of gametes, the egg–sperm distinction is the basis for distinguishing between females and males. In some species (called sequential hermaphrodites), the type of germ cell produced by an individual can change at different stages of life. Hermaphrodite describes an individual that is able to produce both male and female gametes during its lifetime. Hermaphroditism is very common in nature, occurring in approximately 30 % of animal species (excluding insects) and most plants (Jarne and Auld, 2006). Hermaphrodites are classified as either simultaneous (individuals functioning as both male and female at the same time) or sequential (individuals first functioning as one sex and then changing to the other at some point). The factors determining the timing, direction and frequency of sex change are diverse throughout nature, and dependent on the species and an individual’s social-ecological context (Munday et al., 2006; see case study ‘Marine science’). Defining sex for engineering and design In engineering and product design research, sex includes anatomical and physiological characteristics that may affect the design of products, systems and processes (see Schiebinger et al., 2011–2020). Many devices and machines have been designed to fit male bodies. For example, military and commercial cockpits were traditionally based on male anthropometry, which made it difficult or even dangerous for some women (or small men) to be pilots (Weber, 1997). Crash test dummies are also based on male bodies; while small dummies are now 13 used to represent women, they do not model bodily differences, such as neck strength (Linder and Svedberg, 2019). Office building thermostats, which are based on male metabolic rates, may set temperatures too low for many women (van Hoof, 2015). Workplace safety gear (e.g. police vests) often does not fit women or small men. It is also important to understand differences within groups of women, men and gender-diverse people. Many period-tracking apps fail users who have irregular cycles (Tiffany, 2018).

Works cited Ainsworth, C. (2015), ‘Sex redefined’, Nature, 518(7539), 288–291. Arboleda, V. A., Sandberg, D. E. and Vilain, E. (2014), ‘DSDs: genetics, underlying pathologies and psychosexual differentiation’, Nature Reviews Endocrinology, 10, 603–615. Fausto-Sterling, A. (2000), Sexing the Body: Gender politics and the construction of sexuality, Basic Books, New York. Fausto-Sterling, A. (2012), Sex/Gender: Biology in a social world, Routledge, New York. Gilbert, S. (2010), Developmental Biology, 9th Edition, Sinauer Associates, Sunderland. Jarne, P. and Auld, J. R. (2006), ‘Animals mix it up too: the distribution of self-fertilization among hermaphroditic animals’, Evolution, 60, 1816–1824. Jones, T. (2018), ‘Intersex studies: a systematic review of international health literature’, Sage Open, 8(2), 2158244017745577. Karkazis, K. (2008), Fixing Sex: Intersex, medical authority, and lived experience, Duke University Press, Durham, NC. Kessler, S. (1998), Lessons from the Intersexed, Rutgers University Press, New Brunswick, NJ. Linder, A. and Svedberg, W. (2019), ‘Review of average sized male and female occupant models in European regulatory assessment tests and European laws: gaps and bridging suggestions’, Accident Analysis & Prevention, 127, 156–162. Munday, P. L., Buston, P. M. and Warner, R. R. (2006), ‘Diversity and flexibility of sex-change strategies in animals’, Trends in Ecology & Evolution, 21(2), 89–95. Schiebinger, L., Klinge, I., Sánchez de Madariaga, I., Paik, H. Y., Schraudner, M. and Stefanick, M. (eds.) (2011– 2020), ‘Design thinking’, Gendered Innovations in Science, Health & Medicine, Engineering, and Environment (http://genderindesign.com/). Tiffany, K. (2018), ‘Period-tracking apps are not for women’, Vox, 16 November. van Hoof, J. (2015), ‘Female thermal demand’, Nature Climate Change, 5, 1029–1030. Weber, R. N. (1997), ‘Manufacturing gender in commercial and military cockpit design’, Science, Technology, & Human Values, 22(2), 235–253.

‘Gender’ refers to sociocultural norms, identi - ties and relations that (1) structure societies and organisations and (2) shape behaviours, products, technologies, environments, and knowledges (Schiebinger, 1999; Ridgeway and Correll, 2004). Gender attitudes and behaviours are complex and change in time and place. Im - portantly, gender is multidimensional (Hyde et al., 2018) and intersects with other social cate - gories, such as sex, age, socioeconomic status, sexual orientation and ethnicity (see ‘Intersec - tional approaches’ in Annex B). Gender is dis - tinct from sex (Fausto-Sterling, 2012).
Three related dimensions of gender​
As social beings, humans function through learned behaviours. How we speak, our man - nerisms, the things we use and our behaviours all signal who we are and establish rules for in - teraction. Gender is one such set of organising principles that structure behaviours, attitudes, physical appearance and habits.​
  1. Gender norms are produced through social institutions (such as families, schools, workplaces, laboratories, universities or boardrooms), social interactions (such as between romantic partners, colleagues or family members) and wider cultural products (such as textbooks, literature, films and video games).
    1. Gender norms are produced through social institutions (such as families, schools, workplaces, laboratories, universities or boardrooms), social interactions (such as between romantic partners, colleagues or family members) and wider cultural products (such as textbooks, literature, films and video games).
      1. Gender norms refer to social and cultural attitudes and expectations about which behaviours, preferences, products, professions or knowledges are appropriate for women, men and gender-diverse individuals, and may influence the development of science and technology.
      2. Gender norms draw upon and reinforce gender stereotypes about women, men and gender-diverse individuals.
      3. Gender norms may be reinforced by unequal distribution of resources and discrimination in the workplace, families and other institutions.
      4. Gender norms are constantly in flux. They change by historical era, culture or location, such as the 1950s versus the 2020s, Korea versus Germany or urban versus rural areas. Gender also differs by specific social contexts, such as work versus home.
    2. Gender identities relate to how individuals or groups perceive and present themselves in relation to gender norms. Gender identities may be context-specific and interact with other identities, such as ethnicity, class or cultural heritage (see ‘Intersectional approaches’ in Annex B)
    3. Gender relations relate to how we interact with people and institutions in the world around us, based on our sex and our gender identity. Gender relations encompass how gender shapes social interactions in families, schools, workplaces and public settings, for instance the power relation between a man patient and woman physician
      1. Social divisions of labour are another important aspect of gender relations, whereby women and men are concentrated in different types of (paid or unpaid) activities. One consequence of such gender segregation is that particular occupations or disciplines become marked symbolically with the (presumed) gender category of the larger group: for example, nursing is seen as a female profession, engineering as male.
      2. Women and men who work in highly segregated roles acquire different kinds of knowledge or expertise, which can sometimes be usefully accessed for gendered innovations (see ‘Co-creation and participatory research’ in Annex B; see also Schiebinger et al., 2011– 2020a).
      3. Gender relations can also become embodied in products or urban environments, such as transportation systems (see case study ‘Smart mobility’).
    4. Sex and gender interact. The term ‘gender’ was introduced in the late 1960s to reject biological determinism that interprets behavioural differences as the outcomes of biological disposition. ‘Gender’ was used to distinguish the sociocultural factors that shape behaviours and attitudes from biological factors related to sex. Gendered behaviours and attitudes are learned; they are neither fixed nor universal. Nonetheless, gendered experiences can affect biology. Moreover, some individuals seek to change aspects of their bodies to align them better with their gender identities. Sex and gender are often useful analytical terms even if in reality sex and gender interact (see Schiebinger et al., 2011–2020b).
    5. Legal gender categories. Governments typically require citizens to categorise their gender identity on official documents such as birth certificates, driving licences and passports. Numerous countries recognise a third gender category. These include Argentina, Australia, Bangladesh, Canada, Colombia, Denmark, Germany, India, Malta, Nepal, New Zealand and Pakistan, among others.
    6. Cisgender and transgender. ‘Transgender’ is an umbrella term that describes a range of gender identities, including individuals whose gender identity differs from that typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth (Marshall et al., 2019; Scandurra et al., 2019). This is in contrast to ‘cisgender’, which describes individuals whose self-identified gender matches their birth sex assignment (Aultman, 2014). Other individuals refuse the concept of gender as binary altogether and may self-identify as genderqueer, non-binary, gender-fluid or bigender (Hyde et al., 2018).
    7. Gender is multidimensional. Gender is often described as existing on a masculinity–femininity spectrum, but such categories can reinforce stereotypes about women and men, and ignore individuals who fall outside traditional gender binaries (Nielsen et al., forthcoming). Gender is multidimensional: any given individual may experience configurations of gender norms, traits and relations that cannot be subsumed under the simple categories ‘feminine’ and ‘masculine’.
Problems to avoid when analysing gender
Problems can arise if researchers assume that:
all women as a group, all men as a group and all gender-diverse people as a group (their attitudes, preferences, needs, behaviours and knowledge) are the same;
women, men and gender-diverse people are completely different;
observed differences between women and men are solely biological in origin;
observed gender differences hold across cultures;
life conditions and opportunities are similar for women, men, and gender-diverse people;
birth sex can be used as a proxy for gender identity in surveys;
certain questions are relevant to only one gender (e.g. survey questions about caregiving relate primarily to women or questions about the strain of physical work primarily to men).

Works cited
Aultman, B. (2014), ‘Cisgender’, Transgender Studies Quarterly, 1 (1–2), 61–62. Fausto-Sterling, A. (2012), Sex/Gender: Biology in a social world, Routledge, New York. Hyde, J. S., Bigler, R. S., Joel, D., Tate, C. C. and van Anders, S. M. (2018), ‘The future of sex and gender in psychology: five challenges to the gender binary’, American Psychologist, 74(2), 171–193. Marshall, Z., Welch, V., Minichiello, A., Swab, M., Brunger, F. and Kaposy, C. (2019), ‘Documenting research with transgender, nonbinary, and other gender diverse (trans) individuals and communities: introducing the Global Trans Research Evidence Map’, Transgender Health, 4(1), 68–80. Nielsen, M. W., Peragine, D., Neilands, T. B., Stefanick, M. L., Ioannidis, J. P. A., Pilote, L., Prochaska, J. J., Cullen, M. R., Einstein, G., Klinge, I., LeBlanc, H., Paik, H. Y., Risvedt, S. and Schiebinger, L. (forthcoming), ‘Gender-related variables for health research’ (https://doi.org/10.1101/20 20.09.17.20196824). Ridgeway, C. L. and Correll, S. J. (2004), ‘Unpacking the gender system: a theoretical perspective on gender beliefs and social relations’, Gender & Society, 18, 510–5. Scandurra, C., Mezza, F., Maldonato, N. M., Bottone, M., Bochicchio, V., Valerio, P. and Vitelli, R. (2019), ‘Health of non-binary and genderqueer people: a systematic review’, Frontiers in Psychology, 10 (10.3389/fpsyg.2019.01453). Schiebinger, L. (1999), Has Feminism Changed Science?, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA. Schiebinger, L., Klinge, I., Sánchez de Madariaga, I., Paik, H. Y., Schraudner, M. and Stefanick, M. (eds.) (2011– 2020a), ‘Water infrastructure’, Gendered Innovations in Science, Health & Medicine, Engineering, and Environment (http://genderedinnovations.stanford.edu/case-studies/ water.html). Schiebinger, L., Klinge, I., Sánchez de Madariaga, I., Paik, H. Y., Schraudner, M. and Stefanick, M. (eds.) (2011–2020b), ‘Analysing how sex and gender interact’, Gendered Innovations in Science, Health & Medicine, Engineering, and Environment (http:// genderedinnovations.stanford.edu/methods/how.html).

‘Intersectionality’ describes overlapping or intersecting categories such as gender, sex, ethnicity, age, socioeconomic status, sexual orientation and geographical location that combine to inform individuals’ identities and experiences. Researchers and engineers should not consider gender in isolation; gender identities, norms and relations both shape and are shaped by other social attributes (Buolamwini and Gebru, 2018). In 1989, the legal scholar Kimberlé Crenshaw coined the term ‘intersectionality’ to describe how multiple forms of discrimination, power and privilege intersect in Black women’s lives, in ways that are erased when sexism and racism are treated separately (Crenshaw, 1989). Since then, the term has been expanded to describe intersecting forms of oppression and inequality emerging from structural advantages and disadvantages that shape a person’s or a group’s experience and social opportunities (Hankivsky, 2014; Collins and Bilge, 2016; McKinzie and Richards, 2019; Rice et al., 2019).

Works Cited
Buolamwini, J. and Gebru, T. (2018), ‘Gender shades: intersectional accuracy disparities in commercial gender classification’, Proceedings of Machine Learning Research, 81, 77–91. Collins, P. H. and Bilge, S. (2016), Intersectionality, John Wiley & Sons. Crenshaw, K. (1989), ‘Demarginalizing the intersection of race and sex: a Black feminist critique of antidiscrimination doctrine, feminist theory and antiracist politics, University of Chicago Legal Forum, 1, 139–167. Hankivsky, O. (2014), Intersectionality 101, Institute for Intersectionality Research & Policy, Simon Fraser University, Vancouver, British Colunbia. McKinzie, A. and Richards, P. (2019), ‘An argument for context-driven intersectionality’, Sociology Compass, 13, e12671. Rice, C., Harrison, E. and Friedman, M. (2019), ‘Doing justice to intersectionality in research’, Cultural Studies ↔ Critical Methodologies, 19, 409–420.
1. I reckon it's important for clinicians to be familiar with the essential elements of the 'gender identity' belief-system and the associated politeness norms. You should understand the idea of 'preferred pronouns' and be aware that the correct way to confirm sex is to ask the patients 'sex assigned at birth' etc.
It doesn't matter if you're incidentally furthering delusional or destructive beliefs in some small way, when it's being traded off against the much larger benefit of ensuring a good relationship with a patient since that's what will allow you to provide the best possible care.

2. Most of this is pretty unobjectionable, IMO. There are a few things you could quibble with regarding the slant and about the relevance of some of the information; does anyone need to know about sex determination in fish or eels? I don't think so, it's only in there to give the impression that sex is some superlatively complicated subject.

The gender stuff isn't even that bad. It doesn't really imply any sort of innate basis for gender identity which is a common pitfall in this kind of stuff. Emphasizing cultural variation and difference is - in my view - good, and you could actually go further in that direction. You could talk about how 'gender identity,' 'sexual orientation' etc. are themselves a sort of folk conceptualization of human behavior & self-identification; the one that is most commonly used in western societies. That would be both value neutral and accurate.

I find the gender norms stuff to mostly be fine as well, it's very clearly slanted to give the reader the perspective that the normative conclusion they should draw is that gender norms are basically arbitrary. This is false, but not egregiously so, you could amend the issue by just adding a subsection mentioning that gender norms tend display a lot of cross-cultural similarity across both time and space. As well as mentioning that some elements of gender norms have an instinctual basis in biology.

The intersectionality stuff is just generic garbage. I am not a medical professional so maybe I'm missing something, but I struggle to see how any of it could seriously facilitate the provision of better care. There's also a Timnit Gebru citation in there to go with the Crenshaw.
This is ????. One of the noteworthy facts about 'gender dysphoria' is the total absence of any objective criteria for diagnosing it. A fact that is probably unsurprising given that it is unlikely that it exists as being distinct from any other form of body dysmorphia, hypochondriatic obsession, social anxiety or whatever have you.

People just say things.
How come in every transgender story or person I have ever seen or heard about, its always a male wanting to be turned into a girl? I've never seen a woman want to be turned into a male.

Basically males that say they identify as female can just walk into a woman's rest room and do whatever they want.

No wonder woman are scared with people like that around.
They exist, they just tend to be either turbo-butch dykes, extremely crazy or literal children, makes it possible to never encounter them.
 
How come in every transgender story or person I have ever seen or heard about, its always a male wanting to be turned into a girl? I've never seen a woman want to be turned into a male.

Basically males that say they identify as female can just walk into a woman's rest room and do whatever they want.

No wonder woman are scared with people like that around.
It does happen, I've gone to SJW-land and returned. It is a thing that happens with Lesbians, for some reason It's always been asian F2M I've run into. But I don't have enough data to extrapolate.

They do a thing, where they get prostetics to imitate the anatomy they lack; they're called packers.
 
The ogre is throwing a tantrum. Be very afraid.

Transgender Footballer Sues AFL Over its “Discriminatory” Policies
Hannah-Mouncey-makes-attempt-for-the-ball-e1548574118214.jpg

AU — A 6′ 3, 250 lb footballer who previously pushed to play in the women’s Australian Football League (AFLW) has announced legal action against the AFL over its new eligibility requirements for male players wanting to play with women. According to PerthNow, the updated policy specifies that male players seeking to play in the AFLW must keep their testosterone levels under a certain limit and provide the league with documentation related to physical testing requirements.

In a verbose statement posted to Twitter on January 15, 2021, the footballer – who currently goes by the name Hannah Mouncey – outlined numerous questions for the AFL to answer “as the bare minimum” for “a process to be considered transparent and for all parties to be able to have faith in the process”.

It must also be noted that the current policy states that even if a player satisfies all criteria the AFL sets out, the AFL reserves the right to refuse the player the ability to play and no reason needs to be given https://t.co/2Q0ASXib1T
— Hannah Mouncey (@HannahMouncey) January 15, 2021

The questions often include various allegations, along with Mouncey’s preferred answers to the questions posed. For example, Mouncey insinuates that women might make “vexatious” safety complaints – and thus, stipulates (as part of this “question”) that it would be “vital” that a (male) player be allowed to continue playing while a safety complaint is reviewed. Under the new rules, Mouncey remains eligible to play in the Women’s AFL Canberra Second Grade competition, but not the First Grade level. However, this conciliatory policy approach is unacceptable to the footballer, who describes it as “discriminatory”, “not fit for purpose and in many ways offensive”.

In 2017, Mouncey was not permitted to play in AFLW due to concerns over women’s safety, and claimed that “the treatment the AFL’s given me has been pretty s–t” as the reason for withdrawing from the 2018 draft application process.

Next, Mouncey, who had previously played on the men’s national handball team, joined the women’s national team. However, prior to the December 2019 Handball World Championships, the female players and the team manager requested that Mouncey not shower with the women or use their change room before or after a game – requests which Mouncey considered “ludicrous”.

Mouncey was subsequently excluded from the world tournament for refusing to abide by these requests.

He dropped out of the team after the girls went 2 management to say they didnt want to share communal showers with him in a tournament to Tokyo. They arranged a seperate shower for him, but he threw a fit-he’s a woman & ‘inclusivity’ & all that. They stuck by the girls & he quit.
♀️ Sal Robins🟥#IStandWithJKR ♀️ (@Sal_Robins) December 22, 2019

And the reason I’m not liked is because I told our manager, and by extension those players, exactly where he and they could go in trying to tell me where I could change and shower.
Hannah Mouncey, reacting to a request not to shower and change with the female players
 
Here are my thoughts as to why so many men are trooning out:

1. The rise of white collar jobs in the boomer generation meant many boomer men had less time to spend with their sons.

2. This means many millennial and zoomer men did not have a significant male role model in their lives, and spent most of it with their mothers as the main adult figure.

3. Without the male role model these men never quite learn how to be an attractive, ideal male, both to love interests and to society in general.

4. Some of these men that can't get girlfriends/have trouble fitting in compare themselves to ideal men with all these things, concluding that they fail as men and that life may be easier as a woman. In the meantime, with the power of the internet and social media they can see many other men are trooning out, which helps to convince them that this is the right choice to make to improve their lives.
 
4. Some of these men that can't get girlfriends/have trouble fitting in compare themselves to ideal men with all these things, concluding that they fail as men and that life may be easier as a woman. In the meantime, with the power of the internet and social media they can see many other men are trooning out, which helps to convince them that this is the right choice to make to improve their lives.
I think it's mostly this last one. "I feel like I can't fit into what society expects of a man? I guess I'm not a man." Applies to the women too.
 
Here are my thoughts as to why so many men are trooning out:

1. The rise of white collar jobs in the boomer generation meant many boomer men had less time to spend with their sons.

2. This means many millennial and zoomer men did not have a significant male role model in their lives, and spent most of it with their mothers as the main adult figure.

3. Without the male role model these men never quite learn how to be an attractive, ideal male, both to love interests and to society in general.

4. Some of these men that can't get girlfriends/have trouble fitting in compare themselves to ideal men with all these things, concluding that they fail as men and that life may be easier as a woman. In the meantime, with the power of the internet and social media they can see many other men are trooning out, which helps to convince them that this is the right choice to make to improve their lives.
A lot of them also have extremely unrealistic and uninformed beliefs about what it's actually like to be a woman. This is pretty evident in their complete lack of understanding or empathy for women who raise concerns about biological men in their locker room and things like that. That women feel vulnerable is something that doesn't even cross their minds. They get their idea of womanhood from porn and anime. They think being a woman is a one way ticket to getting endless attention and special treatment.

This is why I dont believe they are "real women" because it's so very obvious they don't think like us nor are they socialized the way we are. Putting on a wig and high heels does not a woman make.

I'd also say that porn and anime and other shit gives them unrealistic expectations of what they can transform into. There are a few passing and attractive trannies but most just turn out to be ugly or creepy or dont pass at all. You're not going to take a 6'2 300 lb man with male pattern baldness and turn him into a cute anime girl.
 
A lot of them also have extremely unrealistic and uninformed beliefs about what it's actually like to be a woman. This is pretty evident in their complete lack of understanding or empathy for women who raise concerns about biological men in their locker room and things like that. That women feel vulnerable is something that doesn't even cross their minds. They get their idea of womanhood from porn and anime. They think being a woman is a one way ticket to getting endless attention and special treatment.
I'm actually somewhat shocked that Biden made it so that trans women must be allowed into women's sports now. People refuse to acknowledge biology and that trans women still have the male phenotype. Of course in current year any sort of science that doesn't fit the narrative is dismissed so...
 
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I'm actually somewhat shocked that Biden made it so that trans men must be allowed into women's sports now. People refuse to acknowledge biology and that trans women still have the male phenotype. Of course in current year any sort of science that doesn't fit the narrative is dismissed so...
This shit is just going to end very badly for some unfortunate teenage girls.

The whole trans thing just makes me wonder if the majority is never supposed to have any rights. Are we all to be beholden to whatever minority pops up and demands special treatment? We just have to change everything about our society and language down to saying shit like "pregnant people" because like 0.03% of the population doesn't like the body they were born in. Even people with schizophrenia are a bigger part of the population yet society isn't bending over backwards to accommodate their delusions.
 
This. I find it annoying how the trans community trivializes being a minority as if their lives will be better with "special privileges" that cater to their mental illness. These people act like what they think a minority acts like, screeching discrimination at every corner when someone just as much as looks at them funny. There's so much time and effort wasted accommodating these people who chose to mutilate their bodies, rather than using those resources for people who had no say in how they were born. Just because there's a bigger stall for handicapped people doesn't automatically mean a man in a dress deserves to be in the bathroom too, but we can't hurt Moondancer's feelings.

One thing I will ask is if genitals don't correlate with sex (in their line of thought), why transition at all?
 
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How come in every transgender story or person I have ever seen or heard about, its always a male wanting to be turned into a girl? I've never seen a woman want to be turned into a male.

Basically males that say they identify as female can just walk into a woman's rest room and do whatever they want.

No wonder woman are scared with people like that around.

Ellen/Elliott Page would like to talk to you about every trans person who makes the news being MtF.
 
How come in every transgender story or person I have ever seen or heard about, its always a male wanting to be turned into a girl? I've never seen a woman want to be turned into a male.

Basically males that say they identify as female can just walk into a woman's rest room and do whatever they want.

No wonder woman are scared with people like that around.
You occasionally get women deciding to lop their tits off and become what they think constitutes a man, purely because they have a fetish for gay dudes and decide to take it to the next step by becoming the gay dude. It's in the same vein as men that decide to chop their dicks off because they got off to lesbian porn one too many times.
 
Will this trend of people Trooning out for brownie points ever die out ?

At this rate this whole entire trend of "Traps" is basically just a fad used by the media to make big bucks by turning autists into retarded twitter SJW's
 
I suspect that there is more to this story than he’s letting on. Women could be catty but if this person was making a solid effort to fit in then you wouldn’t have the whole damn group turning against him.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was groping or verbal harassment involved in all this.

IMO. Just from that picture alone of him about to grab a girl. Males have a much higher grip strength than females. If she tried to flee and he has a hold on her he'll easily tear her shirt, let alone if he gets his hands on her body what kind of damage he could do without even thinking of it. You're not going to be able to play anything if opposing teams won't play against you for the obvious reason. One of his thighs is almost bigger than the girl is from the side.

It probably doesn't help that he's on the record as still female attracted either.

This is a good case for if you don't like it, make your own. Except he's probably well aware that nobody would want to be in a trans league, it's not validating enough unless they're forcing others to accept them. 🙄
 
IMO. Just from that picture alone of him about to grab a girl. Males have a much higher grip strength than females. If she tried to flee and he has a hold on her he'll easily tear her shirt, let alone if he gets his hands on her body what kind of damage he could do without even thinking of it. You're not going to be able to play anything if opposing teams won't play against you for the obvious reason. One of his thighs is almost bigger than the girl is from the side.

It probably doesn't help that he's on the record as still female attracted either.

This is a good case for if you don't like it, make your own. Except he's probably well aware that nobody would want to be in a trans league, it's not validating enough unless they're forcing others to accept them. 🙄
BTW, the ogre has his own thread on the farms:

Hannah Mouncey / Callum Mouncey - Failed Aussie Football player puts on a dress to play in womans league

 
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