General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[ロボ﹏§¤r﹏h¶rœ]

I'm gonna need more details

The Mystery of Larry Wachowski

Weird, weird story. Most poople know about it but this here a detailed article from Rolling Stone about it. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/9138137?rnd=1137100156948&has-player=true The Mystery of Larry Wachowski Could the co-creator of The Matrix real life truly be...

www.neogaf.com

 

[KateHikes14]

Thoughts?

The first one belongs to the second one, and the last one is midget for some reason? (Manlets btfo?).
Curious what the FtM spectrum looks like, I have a feeling as the amount of people affected by ill thought out test injections grow, the dialogue about troons will grow far beyond what it is now.

 

[ロボ﹏§¤r﹏h¶rœ]

Fleeing Womanhood Like a House on Fire

By Abigail Shrier

This is a story Americans need to hear. Whether or not you have an adolescent daughter, whether or not your child has fallen for this transgender craze, America has become fertile ground for this mass enthusiasm for reasons that have everything to do with our cultural frailty: parents are undermined; experts are over-relied upon; dissenters in science and medicine are intimidated; free speech truckles under renewed attack; government healthcare laws harbor hidden consequences; and an intersectional era has arisen in which the desire to escape a dominant identity encourages individuals to take cover in victim groups.

To tell the story of these adolescent girls, I conducted nearly two hundred interviews and spoke to over four dozen families of adolescents. I have relied in part on parent accounts. Since traditional dysphoria begins in early childhood and has long been marked by a “persistent, insistent, and consistent”1 sense of a child’s discomfort in his body (not something a young child can hide) parents are often in the best position to know whether the passionate dysphoria of adolescence began in early childhood. They are in the best position to know, in other words, whether the distress afflicting so many teenage girls represents traditional gender dysphoria or a different phenomenon altogether.

Parents cannot entirely be trusted to know how their adolescents feel about their transgender identities or the new lives forged in its name. But parents can report the facts of their kids’ academic or professional standing, their financial stability, and family formation or lack thereof, and even, sometimes, their social successes and failures. Are these transgender-identified adolescents still in school, or did they drop out? Do they maintain contact with old friends? Do they speak to any family members at all? Are they building toward a future with a romantic partner? Are they engaged in subsistence living on wages from the local coffee shop? I do not pretend to capture these adolescents’ whole stories, much less the fullness of the transgender experience. Transgender success stories are everywhere told and celebrated. They march under the banner of civil rights. They promise to breach the next cultural frontier, to shatter one more basis of human division.

But the phenomenon sweeping teenage girls is different. It originates not in traditional gender dysphoria but in videos found on the internet. It represents mimicry inspired by internet gurus, a pledge taken with girlfriends—hands and breath held, eyes squeezed shut. For these girls, trans identification offers freedom from anxiety’s relentless pursuit; it satisfies the deepest need for acceptance, the thrill of transgression, the seductive lilt of belonging. As one transgender adolescent, “Kyle,” put it to me: “Arguably, the internet is half the reason I had the courage to come out. Chase Ross—a YouTuber. I was twelve. I followed him religiously.”

This is the story of the American family—decent, loving, hardworking, and kind. It wants to do the right thing. But it finds itself set in a society that increasingly regards parents as obstacles, bigots, and dupes. We cheer as teenage girls with no history of dysphoria steep themselves in a radical gender ideology taught in school or found on the internet. Peers and therapists and teachers and internet heroes egg these girls on. But here, the cost of so much youthful indiscretion is not a piercing or tattoo. It’s closer to a pound of flesh.

Some small proportion of the population will always be transgender. But perhaps the current craze will not always lure troubled young girls with no history of gender dysphoria, enlisting them in a lifetime of hormone dependency and disfiguring surgeries. If this is a social contagion, society—perhaps—can arrest it. No adolescent should pay this high a price for having been, briefly, a follower.

* * *

In researching this transgender craze, I spoke with over four dozen parents. Again and again, I heard a variant on, “My daughter is seventeen, but if you met her, you’d think she was fourteen.” Many of the adolescent girls who fall for the transgender craze lead upper-middle-class, Gen Z lives. Carefully tended by those for whom “parent” is an active verb, even a life’s work, they are often stellar students. Until the transgender craze strikes, these adolescents are notable for their agreeableness, companionability, and utter lack of rebellion. They’ve never smoked a cigarette; they don’t ever drink.

They’ve also never been sexually active. Many have never had a kiss—with boy or girl. According to Sasha Ayad, a therapist whose practice is largely devoted to trans-identifying adolescents, many have never masturbated. Their bodies are a mystery to them, their deepest desires under-explored and largely unknown.

But they are in pain—lots of it. They are anxious and depressed. They are awkward and afraid. Like the infant that learns to avoid the edge of a bed,2 they sense a dangerous chasm lies between the unsteady girls they are and the glamorous women social media tells them they should be. Bridging the gap feels hopeless.

The internet never gives them a day—or even an hour—of reprieve. They want to feel the highs and lows of teenage romance, but most of their life occurs on the iPhone. They try cutting. They dabble in anorexia. Parents rush them to psychiatrists who supply medications to pad their moods like so much cotton batting, which helps—unless feeling something is the point.

Where is all the raucous fun that should, by right, be theirs? They’ve heard their parents’ stories; they’ve seen the movies. That epic road trip is hard to recreate when few of your friends drive and parents prefer it that way. They could go to the mall, if it hadn’t closed down, and if teenagers still went to the mall (they don’t). Local environs can’t begin to compare with the labyrinthine corridors, ingeniously customized, supplied by their phones.

A decade ago, if it ever occurred to you that female-to-male transsexuals existed, you might have thought of Hilary Swank’s portrayal of Teena Brandon in the 1999 biopic Boys Don’t Cry. Swank’s characterization is captivating. Teena Brandon renames herself “Brandon Teena,” chases girls, swigs beer, and joyrides through rural Nebraska dressed as a boy, and mostly passing as one. Brandon chases a strikingly conservative vision of happiness. What Brandon wants is to find the right girl, win her, marry her, make her happy.

You spend the entire movie hoping like hell she’ll succeed. The abuse Brandon heroically endures, the knowledge that no one in her place and time is likely to offer the kindness or acceptance Brandon craves, the devastating certainty that this story can only end in tragedy—all of it registers in the viewer’s clenched gut.

The adolescent girls currently identifying as transgender have almost nothing in common with this picture. They don’t want to ‘pass’—not really. They typically reject the boy-girl dichotomy that Brandon Teena took for granted. They make little effort to adopt the stereotypical habits of men: They rarely buy a weight set, watch football, or ogle girls. If they cover themselves with tattoos, they prefer feminine ones—flowers or cartoon animals, the kind that mark them as something besides stereotypically male; they want to be seen as ‘queer,’ definitely not as ‘cis men.’ They flee womanhood like a house on fire, their minds fixed on escape, not on any particular destination.

Only 12 percent of natal females who identify as transgender have undergone or even desire phalloplasty.3 They have no plans to obtain the male appendage that most people would consider a defining feature of manhood. As Sasha Ayad put it to me, “A common response that I get from female clients is something along these lines: ‘I don’t know exactly that I want to be a guy. I just know I don’t want to be a girl.’”

* * *

In 2016, Lisa Littman, ob-gyn turned public health researcher and mother of two, was scrolling through social media when she noticed a statistical peculiarity: several adolescents, most of them girls, from her small town in Rhode Island had come out as transgender—all from within the same friend group. “With the first two announcements, I thought, ‘Wow, that’s great,’” Dr. Littman said, a light New Jersey accent tweaking her vowels. Then came announcements three, four, five, and six.

Dr. Littman knew almost nothing about gender dysphoria—her research interests had been confined to reproductive health: abortion stigma and contraception. But she knew enough to recognize that the numbers were much higher than extant prevalence data would have predicted. “I studied epidemiology . . . and when you see numbers that greatly exceed your expectations, it’s worth it to look at what might be causing it. Maybe it’s a difference of how you’re counting. It could be a lot of things. But you know, those were high numbers.”

In fact, they turned out to be unprecedented. In America and across the Western world, adolescents were reporting a sudden spike in gender dysphoria—the medical condition associated with the social designation ‘transgender.’ Between 2016 and 2017 the number of gender surgeries for natal females in the U.S. quadrupled, with biological women suddenly accounting for—as we have seen—70 percent of all gender surgeries.4 In 2018, the UK reported a 4,400 percent rise over the previous decade in teenage girls seeking gender treatments.5 In Canada, Sweden, Finland, and the UK, clinicians and gender therapists began reporting a sudden and dramatic shift in the demographics of those presenting with gender dysphoria—from predominately preschool-aged boys to predominately adolescent girls.6

Dr. Littman’s curiosity snagged on the social media posts she’d seen. Why would a psychological ailment that had been almost exclusively the province of boys suddenly befall teenage girls? And why would the incidence of gender dysphoria be so much higher in friend clusters? Maybe she had missed something. She immersed herself in the scientific literature on gender dysphoria. She needed to understand the nature, presentation, and common treatment of this disorder.

Dr. Littman began preparing a study of her own, gathering data from parents of trans-identifying adolescents who had had no childhood history of gender dysphoria. The lack of childhood history was critical; as we have seen, traditional gender dysphoria typically begins in early childhood. That was true especially for the small number of natal girls who presented with it.7 Dr. Littman wanted to know whether what she was seeing was a new variant on an old affliction or something else entirely. She assembled 256 detailed parent reports and analyzed the data. Her results astonished her.

Two patterns stood out: First, the clear majority (65 percent) of the adolescent girls who had discovered transgender identity in adolescence—“out of the blue”8—had done so after a period of prolonged social media immersion. Second, the prevalence of transgender identification within some of the girls’ friend groups was more than seventy times the expected rate.9 Why?

Dr. Littman knew that a spike in transgender identification among adolescent girls might be explained by one of several causes. Increased societal acceptance of LGBTQ members might have allowed teenagers who would have been reluctant to ‘come out’ in earlier eras to do so today, for example. But this did not explain why transgender identification was sharply clustered in friend groups. Perhaps people with gender dysphoria naturally gravitated toward one another?

Then again, the rates were so high, the age of onset had increased from preschool-aged to adolescence, and the sex ratio had flipped. The atypical nature of this dysphoria—occurring in adolescents with no childhood history of it—nudged Dr. Littman toward a hypothesis everyone else had overlooked: peer contagion. Dr. Littman gave this atypical expression of gender dysphoria a name: “rapid-onset gender dysphoria” (“ROGD”).

* * *

There is nothing particularly outlandish in feeling discomfort in one’s own body or in suspecting that one might feel better in another. There are so many things about our physical forms that cause us distress and regret. We lug around bodies we would never have chosen. Anyone who has ever had the unpleasant sensation of looking in the mirror and being startled by the age of the woman staring back—the blanching, the slack, the lines that stole their way in while you slept—is well acquainted with our bodies’ ability to confuse and shock and disappoint.

For those with gender dysphoria, this unpleasantness must be excruciating, and we should expect mental health professionals to be respectful of it, sympathetic to those who bear it, and understanding of their pain—even perhaps by supporting medical transition. I have spoken to several transgender adults who are living good, productive lives, in stable relationships and flourishing in their careers. I believe there are instances in which gender-dysphoric people have been helped by gender transition.

But the new ‘affirmative-care’ standard of mental health professionals is a different matter entirely. It surpasses sympathy and leaps straight to demanding that mental health professionals adopt their patients’ beliefs of being in the ‘wrong body.’ Affirmative therapy compels therapists to endorse a falsehood: not that a teenage girl feels more comfortable presenting as a boy—but that she actually is a boy. This is not a subtle distinction, and it isn’t just a matter of humoring a patient. The whole course of appropriate treatment hinges on whether doctors view the patient as a biological girl suffering mental distress or a boy in a girl’s body.

But the ‘affirmative-care’ standard, which chooses between these diagnoses before the patient is even examined, has been adopted by nearly every medical accrediting organization. The American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, and the Pediatric Endocrine Society have all endorsed ‘gender-affirming care’ as the standard for treating patients who self-identify as ‘transgender’ or self-diagnose as ‘gender-dysphoric.’

As the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) standards, consulted by nearly every field of medicine, advise, “Health professionals can assist gender-dysphoric individuals with affirming their gender identity, exploring different options for expressing that identity, and making decisions about medical treatment options for alleviating dysphoria.”10 Notice whose medical judgment is in the driver’s seat. Hint: it isn’t the doctor’s.

“Why should activists, many of them biological men, grown men, why should they have anything to say about the mental and physical healthcare offered to young girls? This is truly an issue. People like to say, about abortion: ‘Well, that’s about a woman and her body; she’s the only one who can have any say over her body.’ And people feel different ways about that; some people point out that, look, it’s not just her body, there’s another life at stake. Other people disagree; they say that it is fundamentally about her body. But, in this example, it is entirely about a young girl’s body. So, the question is: Why are so many activists able to shut down discussions about young girls’ bodies?” – Abigail Shrier

* * *

We are, by nature, social animals—as Aristotle once observed. We absorb ideas about ourselves from our surroundings more often than we realize and more deeply than we know. If we attend a school or live in a family in which we are made to feel stupid or told we are, some number of us will come to believe it. If a boy is placed in a school in which the other boys tease him for being gay, he may come to internalize their homophobia. He may turn his anger inward, at himself.

All of which is to suggest that social transition is not nothing; it is, in fact, an extremely potent and consequential act. It provides what world-renowned gender psychologist Kenneth Zucker—no fan of affirmative therapy—called an “experiment of nurture” when he spoke to me. It places a child or adolescent in an environment in which the entire school is asked to participate in affirming this child’s identity as the opposite sex. If the adolescent wasn’t entirely convinced of her new identity before the experiment, she may be much more so after it is underway.

In fact, a team of Dutch clinician-researchers who pioneered the use of puberty blockers found just that: Social transition is a significant intervention. In a 2011 journal article, they warned that early social transitions proved sticky. Given that girls who had been living as boys for years during childhood “experienced great trouble when they wanted to return to the female gender role,” they cautioned, “We believe that parents and caregivers should fully realize the unpredictability of their child’s psychosexual outcome.”11

Once you’ve been insisting to everyone that you’re one thing, it isn’t easy to announce to all your friends, classmates, acquaintances, teachers, and family that you might have made a mistake and change your mind. “You’re worried about losing face,” Lisa Marchiano explained. “First of all, you’re going to get treated like a traitor to the trans community if you step away, but also you’re going to look like an idiot. Like, you made all these people change your name and pronouns. You were up presenting at school for the Trans Day of Visibility—and now you’re not? Who can do that as a teenager?”

So ‘social transition’ and ‘affirmation’ are not without risk—for the patient or for the doctor. It’s worth wondering if a therapist who has adopted wholesale the perceptions of her patients is able to provide them with objective guidance. In the case of gender-dysphoric adolescents, the perception that a teen is ‘born in the wrong body’ is the very reason for seeking therapy in the first place. It is the cause of distress. One would think that if there were any aspect of the patients’ assessment about which a therapist should maintain objective detachment, it would be the nature of the ailment that led the patients to seek therapy in the first place.

* * *

Girls are different. They are not defective boys simply because they sometimes fail to be single-mindedly self-interested, especially in the face of their friends’ announced need or genuine suffering. They are possessed of a different set of inclinations and gifts—a whole range of emotions and capacities for understanding that boys, in general, are not. If only we didn’t make them feel so bad about this.

Adolescence is especially hard on girls. Effervescent with emotion, they buck and bray like wild horses. Parents might be forgiven for assuming that this can’t be right—that there is something wrong with them. Parents might even be forgiven for wishing to put their daughters on medication to flatten their moods and short-circuit these crazy teenage years. This is the fantasy of inducing a kind of Sleeping Beauty coma until your daughter is ready to awaken, calm and refreshed, having arrived gracefully at womanhood. (In fact, writing this book made me wonder if that wasn’t the actual origin of Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, and so many similar fairy tales: the fond wish to place your unmanageable teenage girl in a brief coma.)

Except that it isn’t possible. A young woman’s unruly emotions in her teenage years—the whirlwind fury and self-doubt of female adolescence—may be a feature, not a flaw. That doesn’t mean a parent shouldn’t set boundaries or punish bad behavior. But absent a serious mental health problem, neither should a parent strive to banish all her daughter’s ups and downs.

Your teenage girl may be driving you crazy. Though this be madness, there is method in it. She may just be beta testing. She’s flexing her muscles, discovering the power and extent of an intellectual and emotional prowess that will enable her to be the most compassionate of parents and supportive of friends.

Women feel things deeply. We empathize. For good reason, when asked to identify their best friend, most men name their wives; most women name another woman.12 Soldiers write home to mom. And in the dead of night, small children cry out for one person. A woman’s emotional life is her strength. A key task of her adolescence must be to learn not to let it overwhelm her. A key task to maturity is to learn not to let it fade away.

We need to stop regarding men as the measure of all things—the language they use, the kind of careers they pursue, the apparent selfishness of which we are so endlessly envious. We blame men for this obsession, but really, it is our doing.

Excerpted from Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters, by Abigail Shrier, pp. xxiii-xxiv, 6-8, 25-27, 98-99, 114-115, 216-217. Copyright © 2020 by Abigail Shrier. Reprinted by permission of Regnery Publishing.

References

1. Ranna Parekh, ed., “What Is Gender Dysphoria?” American Psychiatric Association, February 2016 (quoting the DSM-5 entry on “Gender Dysphoria,”), https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria. [Since the publication of Shrier’s book, the original webpage that she cited has been edited by Jack Turban, M.D., M.H.S., as of November 2020, replacing Ranna Parekh, M.D., M.P.H. The original page, before Turban’s edits, can be seen at the following link to its PDF: http://www.lb7.uscourts.gov/documents/17-360URL1WhatIsGenderDysphoria_.pdf.]
2. See Megan Gannon, “How Babies Learn to Fear Heights,” Live Science, July 26, 2013, https://www.livescience.com/38432-how-babies-learn-to-fear-heights.html.
3. According to the National Center for Transgender Equality 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey, only 12 percent of natal females who identify as transgender either have had [1%] or even desire [11%] phalloplasty. National Center for Transgender Equality, https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf. [See p. 101, Table 7.4.] [Significantly, also, 56% responded explicitly not desiring the procedure at all, while 31% were not sure if they desired it or would themselves feel comfortable with the potential surgical procedure.]
4. “2017 Plastic Surgery Statistics Report,” American Society of Plastic Surgeons, https://www.plasticsurgery.org/docu.../body-contouring-gender-confirmation-2017.pdf. This point was made in a fantastic tweet by a mother who goes by the pseudonym “Emma Zane.” EZ, (@ZaneEmma), “Between 2016-2017, the # of sex reassignment surgeries in the US for natal females QUADRUPLED and the ratio flipped, with FTM now accounting for 70% of all SRS (1 year ago it was 46%) This is a public health EPIDEMIC disproportionately affecting young women!” Twitter, November 30, 2018, 4:22 p.m., https://twitter.com/ZaneEmma/status/1068616160218738688.
5. Gordon Rayer, “Minister Orders Inquiry into 4,400 Percent Rise in Children Wanting to Change Sex,” The Telegraph, September 16, 2018, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...s-inquiry-4000-per-cent-rise-children-wanting.
6. Natasja M. de Graaf et al., “Sex Ratio in Children and Adolescents Referred to the Gender Identity Development Service in the UK (2009-2016),” Archives of Sexual Behavior, vol. 47, no. 5, 2018: 1301-1304, https://www.researchgate.net/public...tity_Development_Service_in_the_UK_2009-2016; “Referrals to GIDS, 2014-15 to 2018-19,” Gender Identity Development Service, June 25, 2019, https://gids.nhs.uk/number-referrals; Madison Aitken et al., “Evidence for an Altered Sex Ratio in Clinic-Referred Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria,” Journal of Sexual Medicine, vol. 12, no. 3, 2015: 756-763.
7. See Kenneth J. Zucker et al., “Demographics, Behavior Problems, and Psychosexual Characteristics of Adolescents with Gender Identity Disorder or Transvestic Fetishism,” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, vol. 38, no. 2, 2012, pp. 151-189. [This citation is edited to show the corrected reference to Zucker et al. 2012.]
8. Lisa Littman, “Parent Reports of Adolescents and Young Adults Perceived to Show Signs of a Rapid Onset of Gender Dysphoria,” PLoS ONE vol. 14, no. 3, 2018: 1-44, https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330.
9. Littman, “Parent Reports of Adolescents and Young Adults,” 17. [“The expected prevalence of transgender young adult individuals is 0.7%.” (This, according to a 2016 estimate). “Yet more than a third of the friendship groups described in this study had 50% or more of the AYAs [adolescents and young adults] in the group becoming transgender-identified in a similar time frame, a localized increase to more than 70 times expected prevalence rate.”]
10. “Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender-Nonconforming People,” World Professional Association for Transgender Health, Version 7, 2012, 9, https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC v7/Standards of Care V7 - 2011 WPATH.pdf.
11. T.D. Steensma et al., “Desisting and Persisting Gender Dysphoria after Childhood: A Qualitative Follow-Up Study,” Clinical Child Psychology and Psychiatry, vol. 16, no. 4, 2011, pp. 499-516, https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1359104510378303; See also “Could Social Transition Increase Persistence Rates in ‘Trans’ Kids?” 4thWaveNow, November 28, 2016.
12. Deborah Tannen, “‘Put Down That Paper and Talk to Me!’: Rapport Talk and Report-Talk,” in A Cultural Approach to Interpersonal Communication: Essential Readings, Leila Monaghan, Jane E. Goodman, and Jennifer Meta Robinson, eds., 2nd ed, Oxford: Wiley-Blackwell, 2012, p. 191.
[This citation is edited to show the corrected book title as A Cultural Approach to Interpersonal Communication: Essential Readings instead of Interpersonal Communication: Putting Theory into Practice.]

 

[Wallace]

“A common response that I get from female clients is something along these lines: ‘I don’t know exactly that I want to be a guy. I just know I don’t want to be a girl.’”

This, right here, along with the corrosive effect of what social media says womanhood is. Kids who lack the ability to emotionally self-regulate just nope out of maturity.

 

[Hongourable Madisha]

It's partly the MtFs doing that too, with all their porn addictions, sissy and bimbo fetishism. They have this idea that young womanhood is some hypersexual caricature, these nasty middle-aged men all want to embody it and actual young women and the teenage girls growing into women don't identify with it or want anything to do with it.

 

[KifflomKween]

This, right here, along with the corrosive effect of what social media says womanhood is. Kids who lack the ability to emotionally self-regulate just nope out of maturity.

It's partly the MtFs doing that too, with all their porn addictions, sissy and bimbo fetishism. They have this idea that young womanhood is some hypersexual caricature, these nasty middle-aged men all want to embody it and actual young women and the teenage girls growing into women don't identify with it or want anything to do with it.

This isn't a "nowadays" thing. This *is* women, throughout history. Why so many cases nowadays? Because in this time in history women have been given a taste of independence like they never have before. At the same time, there's no "proper" way to mature as a woman while keeping your independence which is why these kids stay stuck in a limbo. It's a very similar situation to the girls raised as boys that the article mentions (known as bacha posh).

The article makes a big mistake at the end. It says something in the lines of "women are more nurturing empathetic blah blah just cause they arent self centered like men doesnt mean thats a bad thing blah blah" which in practice just means "You are inferior as a woman so you live vicauriously through others, particularly men. Healing means accepting this. This is your role as a woman, embrace it and join the sisterhood.".
Which is stupid.

This stuff happens because womanhood is shit and has always been. I heard a story once by a russian soldier from WWII. He was 16 at the time. He and his squad were evacuating a village that was going to be invaded by nazis. They had evacuated everyone but a group of women stayed behind. He asked them if they werent afraid of the nazis abd they laughed and said "No, we'll just spread our legs."

It's just the easier thing to do. Humans go for easier. That's why women's history is a disgrace and an embarrassment for the most part, and why so many young women want to be men. Who can blame them?
Telling these girls to "accept" their inferiority so they can mature as women only pushes then further into this. It's the exact same advice the old psychoanalysts gave people.

 

[muh_moobs]

Validity? There is no validity to faggot ideology.

People can do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes, but when they decide that they "need a space" in the public commons to engage in their degeneracy, that's a problem. No gay bars, no pride parades, none of that shit. Keep your sexuality private like it should be.

Same goes for heterosexual fornicators too, to be honest. No one wants to look at your degeneracy.

 

[AnOminous]

This, right here, along with the corrosive effect of what social media says womanhood is. Kids who lack the ability to emotionally self-regulate just nope out of maturity.

Troons have quite literally undone decades of work by feminists to convince society that womanhood is something actually valuable. If there's any one vile and genuinely destructive thing troons have done, that is it.

 

[Wallace]

Troons have quite literally undone decades of work by feminists to convince society that womanhood is something actually valuable. If there's any one vile and genuinely destructive thing troons have done, that is it.

In all fairness, I think the third-wave feminism of the early 2010s laid the groundwork for it. The troons just co-opted the movement, They are very good at taking other people's suffering and making it all about themselves.

 

[Hongourable Madisha]

In all fairness, I think the third-wave feminism of the early 2010s laid the groundwork for it. The troons just co-opted the movement, They are very good at taking other people's suffering and making it all about themselves.

That had been happening since the '90s really, liberal feminism that was all about pretty much anything being feminist if a woman liked doing it, even if it exploited other women. It made it all about feelings rather than actual analyses of power, systems and the collective. That's when shit like "well I like stripping/wearing hijab/getting implants etc so it must be empowering" started.

 

[Syaoran Li]

In all fairness, I think the third-wave feminism of the early 2010s laid the groundwork for it. The troons just co-opted the movement, They are very good at taking other people's suffering and making it all about themselves.

I dunno, I always felt that actual third-wave feminism was the sex-positive liberal feminism of the 90's and early 2000's and that what we've been dealing with since the 2010's is a fourth wave of feminism that blends intersectional leftism with the worst elements of both second-wave and third-wave feminism.

I've heard some people differentiate between the older third-wave feminism and today's woke feminism by referring to the latter as "Intersectional Feminism" or whatever.

 

[muh_moobs]

I dunno, I always felt that actual third-wave feminism was the sex-positive liberal feminism of the 90's and early 2000's and that what we've been dealing with since the 2010's is a fourth wave of feminism that blends intersectional leftism with the worst elements of both second-wave and third-wave feminism.

I've heard some people differentiate between the older third-wave feminism and today's woke feminism by referring to the latter as "Intersectional Feminism" or whatever.

Can't we just call them retards like we used to?

 

[LightDragonman1]

Honestly, I now realize that this is the better place to ask this.

I was discussing how the directors of The Matrix became trans and suddenly declared the film a trans allegory, and I got this response. "One does not "become" trans, you are born trans. In a speech given by Lana years ago she tells how she knew all her life, so yes, The Matrix always was a trans allegory."

Essentially, the thinking is that one doesn't "become trans", but that trans people were always in fact "born trans" and them transitioning is just them finally becoming who they always were. Thoughts?

 

[Deepland Bystander]

Honestly, I now realize that this is the better place to ask this.

I was discussing how the directors of The Matrix became trans and suddenly declared the film a trans allegory, and I got this response. "One does not "become" trans, you are born trans. In a speech given by Lana years ago she tells how she knew all her life, so yes, The Matrix always was a trans allegory."

Essentially, the thinking is that one doesn't "become trans", but that trans people were always in fact "born trans" and them transitioning is just them finally becoming who they always were. Thoughts?

Because trans activism is tied to current political landscape that's focused on the idea of immutable identity. So for being trans to be seen as legitimate, oppressed identity, they have to frame it as if they should be the gender they desired to be since birth. That being trans is fundamental to them. All logic can die there.

Although we all know the Wachowski obviously trooned out due to sissification bdsm shit, you can find it pretty easily here.

 

[Letora]

This post from today on Reddit's /r/detrans is exactly what I expect happens to trannies irl, and this woman's detransitioning made it clear just what a foolish thing she attempted. I actually felt happy to read something that completely and honestly reflected my beliefs on how these people are treated outside of all the bullshit posted on "progressive" websites. People will avoid you. People will resent you for forcing this tranny stuff on them.

No one in my hometown likes me and I think it’s because I was trans.

I was fairly well liked in middle school and early high school. Didn’t have many friends but always had a couple close ones at a time and people seemed genuinely interested in becoming friends with me.

Kinda out of the blue I stopped wearing makeup, cut my hair and my depression “showed through” a lot more. Ever since i got on t, no one likes me at all or wants to be friends. Even now that I’m detrans and look female again, my reputation is just ruined. No one knows what to call me and I’m embarrassed for anyone to find out I’m changing my name legally a second time to a completely new third name.

It hurts worse because my boyfriend of 5 years and I worked at the same place when we were teens. They knew me as my birthname then transitioning for a short while, and they still know me by my trans guy name.

I went back to work there summer 2020 after I was detransed for a while and it was miserable. They seemed pissed off that they “had to” call me a guys name and no one knew what pronouns to use so they never talked about me. No one ever wanted to make conversation with me even if I tried to talk to them. I’d literally get one word answers. I could tell just by their looks that they thought I was so fucking weird.

Apparently they always talk about my bf and how much they miss him, how cool and funny he was, and they always ask his sister who works there about him. I have no clue what they say about me but ik it’s not good (too scared to ask the sister cuz ik it would hurt me). I’m so mad at myself for confusing everyone and being even more hated.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/comments/klee86/no_one_in_my_hometown_likes_me_and_i_think_its/

Of course someone in the comments claims:

It's not an actual burden for your co-workers to call you by your post-trans name just because they're accustomed to your trans name, especially since you spent time away from there.

It is a fucking burden to call someone by a name and pronouns that do not fit their actual appearance and your common sense. Having to override natural instincts is always a burden. Policing people's language into something artificial is a fucking burden. It is absolutely understandable why these people are annoyed with her for doing this kind of crap, forcing some trans name and male pronouns on people who knew she was a female and then changing her mind again. She was the weirdo and did a weird thing, and she will be treated as the weirdo she was.

 

[AnOminous]

It is absolutely understandable why these people are annoyed with her for doing this kind of crap, forcing some trans name and male pronouns on people who knew she was a female and then changing her mind again. She was the weirdo and did a weird thing, and she will be treated as the weirdo she was.

It's amazing how some people seem completely incapable of grasping that if you make dealing with them a nightmare of walking on eggshells, people will just prefer not to deal with you at all.

 

[Mr Cuddles]

Sex/Gender is binary and gender performance is a spectrum. Intersex is a birth defect. It's amazing that's not just the end of the conversation, but that's the society that we are becoming. I agree that people are somewhat constrained by gender roles and think that the men are generally more hemmed in than women, but can't really come up with a solution.

The answer should be just let people be themselves and let nature take it's course. However as a society we have embraced feminism instead of gender role liberalisation which has given us the preconceived notion that women always have it worse off. This has made the debate around gender role liberalisation toxic and it will be difficult to unravel.

As far as transpeople go I would say that people should use the bathroom that their gender performance matches. I understand that women are uncomfortable with biological men using their bathroom, but I would (and I think most men would) be uncomfortable with a decently passing trans individual using our bathroom. Not wanting the opposite sex in the bathroom isn't unique to women.

A better way of phrasing it, a question for the ladies, is how would you feel if a FtM walked into your genders bathroom? Because I'm guessing that would shit you up in the same way if decently passing MtF walked into mine.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I think they must have no comprehension of what they're getting into. Like suddenly they're going to get that mythical "Male Privilege" that has long ceased to exist.

What privilege? The privilege to get drafted at any time to possibly die in war? The privilege to be expected at all times to hold down a job and be productive, family or no, lest you be considered worthless?

 

[GenitalFetishist]

A better way of phrasing it, a question for the ladies, is how would you feel if a FtM walked into your genders bathroom? Because I'm guessing that would shit you up in the same way if decently passing MtF walked into mine.

I hate talking about bathrooms because they are the lowest priority in my opinion. I'd prefer to talk about things like prisons and sports and shelters, because those things actually can be kept separate fairly easily. Men and women get separate prisons and sports and shelters. Trans men and trans women get separate wings in the female and male prisons respectively. Troons can compete against their same sex only if they take no hormones. Otherwise, troon sports leagues (not enough troons to make a league? Too fucking bad, you don't have the right to shit up women's leagues)

But bathroom segregation only ever worked because it could be socially enforced, and because men and women are (in most cases) pretty easy to differentiate even when crossdressing. If you make the rule of public toilet use, "You can use the bathroom if you pass well enough" troons will still be screeching because the ones who pass that well are the exception rather than the rule.

To answer your question: I would rather have a froggy-voiced manlet with delicate hands in the ladies' room with me than Barbie Kardashian.

 

[Mr Cuddles]

I hate talking about bathrooms because they are the lowest priority in my opinion. I'd prefer to talk about things like prisons and sports and shelters, because those things actually can be kept separate fairly easily. Men and women get separate prisons and sports and shelters. Trans men and trans women get separate wings in the female and male prisons respectively. Troons can compete against their same sex only if they take no hormones. Otherwise, troon sports leagues (not enough troons to make a league? Too fucking bad, you don't have the right to shit up women's leagues)

But bathroom segregation only ever worked because it could be socially enforced, and because men and women are (in most cases) pretty easy to differentiate even when crossdressing. If you make the rule of public toilet use, "You can use the bathroom if you pass well enough" troons will still be screeching because the ones who pass that well are the exception rather than the rule.

To answer your question: I would rather have a froggy-voiced manlet with delicate hands in the ladies' room with me than Barbie Kardashian.

On the sports and prison issue I'm definitely up for keeping it to biological sex. So no, I don't think a decently passing troon should bunk with the opposite sex. With the bathroom issue, for me it's just what do you look like at a quick glance. I'm not so sure it's a hard and fast rule, just social etiquette. The "trans" community complains because it works and it works because it is politically accepted. Hard truths aren't easy.

Thanks for answering my question.