🎭 Dramacow Gamergate / Depression Quest Shitstorm

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A couple people in this thread have mentioned a concern about targeting SJWs, and feel we should return to the ethics and corruption charges. I don't disagree with your sentiment, but in my mind these are issues that are inextricably linked. The corruption and ethics violations have come because of SJWs and their friends (unwilling or otherwise) within the media. Leigh Alexander didn't get to power on her charm alone, she got there by brow beating, bullying, and eventually controlling a good chunk of the show. Ben Kuchera, Patricia Hernandez, Jim Sterling, these are all people without scruples who are leveraging social movements to sell their personal brand. Ben Kuchera is a writer for Polygon technically, but he's really a writer for Ben Kuchera, and his entire purpose is to sell Ben Kuchera as best he can to the people he has aligned with.

If gamergate wants to target SJWs in particular, they should at the very least be honest about it instead of trying to hide it behind the idea of journalism ethics only, that's my main problem. I do get that SJWs are almost always unreasonable assholes (though, I may have to fight you on Jim Sterling's inclusion in that list), but I also have trouble seeing them as the industry-controlling masterminds everyone seems to be painting them as. I haven't heard of half of these people's names before this fiasco started, though I guess that's not much evidence for anything.

Who knows, maybe they are the shadowy puppeteers of gaming media, hellbent on making video games about feelings and stuff.
 
If gamergate wants to target SJWs in particular, they should at the very least be honest about it instead of trying to hide it behind the idea of journalism ethics only, that's my main problem. I do get that SJWs are almost always unreasonable assholes (though, I may have to fight you on Jim Sterling's inclusion in that list), but I also have trouble seeing them as the industry-controlling masterminds everyone seems to be painting them as. I haven't heard of half of these people's names before this fiasco started, though I guess that's not much evidence for anything.

Who knows, maybe they are the shadowy puppeteers of gaming media, hellbent on making video games about feelings and stuff.
I remember having a discussion with someone who thought that #GG were trying to silence the SJWs. My take on it was that we support free speech and don't try to silence anybody, but the continuing accusations have gotten people on their toes, and they lash out if they feel that they are being attacked.

#GG shouldn't focus on the SJW types, but they are so loud that it is hard to ignore them. It's aggravating and tiring.
 
Ultimately, the focus should always be on corruption of journalism and ethics charges. However, if there are anti-GG forces who wish to give us enough rope to hang them with, I'll welcome their doing so. We get our ammunition, primarily, from their fuck-ups, which is one of the reasons holding them to account is so satisfying. We gave Gawker a punch to the groin due to Leigh Alexander's racism and bullshit, Biddle's bully advocacy, and the likes of Faraci comparing us to ISIS.

We shouldn't give a damn what the forces arrayed against Gamergate want - observe, and if they do something stupid, grab it for later use against Gawker and Destructoid, otherwise we keep the focus on what matters.

And that's how we'll win, by the way. Don't let them bog you down with personal attacks. They're trying everything possible to discredit and shut this down, and we won't allow that.

And on that note, it's advocacy time. Our brothers over at Reddit were nice enough to throw these up:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jzjw9/i_spent_25_hours_hunting_active_gawker/
https://archive.today/6FcNA

We're going for the jugular in the next push. We're targetting the biggest, meatiest advertisers that Gawker has, and we're going to push Operation Disrespectful Nod into the next phase. The following are Gawker's current biggest advertisers. Time to send them some mail, people.
Leader of Gamergate said:
LL Bean (by far their biggest advertiser)
Discover
Old Spice
Ebay
Keurig
CNBC (The Profit)
Dyson
iRobot
Comcast
PayPal
Save the Children (really? we need to do something about that)
Swash
SEGA (Alien Isolation)

I found their contact information and put it below.

For quick reference, here is a screen cap of Sam Biddle's tweets.
http://i.imgur.com/6ssdX8x.jpg

Ask these advertisers to join companies like Adobe and oppose bullying during bullying awareness month. Here are Adobe's tweets:
https://twitter.com/Adobe/status/524625011919708160
https://twitter.com/Adobe/status/524727259844718592

Gawker's biggest advertiser is LL Bean. We should be hitting them as much as possible.
 
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I do get that SJWs are almost always unreasonable assholes (though, I may have to fight you on Jim Sterling's inclusion in that list), but I also have trouble seeing them as the industry-controlling masterminds everyone seems to be painting them as.

My biggest beef with Sterling is his abrasiveness and general hypocrisy in regards to Gamergate and the treatment of women / minorities / disabled. If you're not a supporter, and you want to be left alone, good on you I say, it's not my place to condemn someone that's not interested. Likewise, if you're an opponent and you carry yourself calmly and rationally, I may not agree with your viewpoint but I respect you as a person and am willing to listen because I could learn something and might be mistaken.

But It has felt, to me, that Sterling has waffled for weeks in what appears to be an attempt to find the bigger audience, not so much the "correct" audience, and has unfortunately conflated "bigger" with loudest.

Here's some of Sterlings tweets that caused my Level of Respect for him to drop Very Much, and ties back in to my rants about journalists / companies needing to stay off twitter.

upload_2014-10-22_11-39-6.png
 
My biggest beef with Sterling is his abrasiveness and general hypocrisy in regards to Gamergate and the treatment of women / minorities / disabled. If you're not a supporter, and you want to be left alone, good on you I say, it's not my place to condemn someone that's not interested. Likewise, if you're an opponent and you carry yourself calmly and rationally, I may not agree with your viewpoint but I respect you as a person and am willing to listen because I could learn something and might be mistaken.

But It has felt, to me, that Sterling has waffled for weeks in what appears to be an attempt to find the bigger audience, not so much the "correct" audience, and has unfortunately conflated "bigger" with loudest.

Here's some of Sterlings tweets that caused my Level of Respect for him to drop Very Much, and ties back in to my rants about journalists / companies needing to stay off twitter.


Just an FYI, whilst I like and generally respected Sterling up until this point, we know from the Destructoid incident reveal that he's waist-deep in this and that he essentially was going to take the Anti-GG viewpoint by default.

He may have done so willingly, but it no longer matters - we know what's up now and how Jim was warned about the infamous Destructoid blacklisting. He fucking knew about this. We really can't take anything he says about GG seriously from this point onwards, with that in mind, since we don't know whether it's actually his viewpoint or he's just looking out to try to keep his erstwhile employers from butt-fucking the guy over it.

A sobering reminder to choose your allies carefully, really.
 
My biggest beef with Sterling is his abrasiveness and general hypocrisy in regards to Gamergate and the treatment of women / minorities / disabled. If you're not a supporter, and you want to be left alone, good on you I say, it's not my place to condemn someone that's not interested. Likewise, if you're an opponent and you carry yourself calmly and rationally, I may not agree with your viewpoint but I respect you as a person and am willing to listen because I could learn something and might be mistaken.

But It has felt, to me, that Sterling has waffled for weeks in what appears to be an attempt to find the bigger audience, not so much the "correct" audience, and has unfortunately conflated "bigger" with loudest.

Here's some of Sterlings tweets that caused my Level of Respect for him to drop Very Much, and ties back in to my rants about journalists / companies needing to stay off twitter.


Jim isn't always the nicest of people, but for most of those tweets he's either not directly involving the abusee in the verbal abuse (woman in checkout lane who will likely never read his twitter, etc) or he's punching upward instead of down. Doesn't really excuse him being vulgar and, frankly, idiotic, but apart from a few examples there he's at least avoided being directly abusive, and that's mostly what I care about. That's why I only got angry at Jontron when he told one of his fans he was "retarded" and not when he called the PS4 or whatever it was "retarded".

Wasn't that blacklisting thing over a guy outting a transwoman or something? Or am I thinking of something else?
 
That's what bothers me about Jim Sterling, he cries about industry corruption and yet he is involved in the corruption to an extent. On the other hand, I don't think Jim has malevolent intentions and also I still think he has his heart is in the right place. He is only human.
 
Jim isn't always the nicest of people, but for most of those tweets he's either not directly involving the abusee in the verbal abuse (woman in checkout lane who will likely never read his twitter, etc) or he's punching upward instead of down. Doesn't really excuse him being vulgar and, frankly, idiotic, but apart from a few examples there he's at least avoided being directly abusive, and that's mostly what I care about. That's why I only got angry at Jontron when he told one of his fans he was "retarded" and not when he called the PS4 or whatever it was "retarded".

Wasn't that blacklisting thing over a guy outting a transwoman or something? Or am I thinking of something else?

It was about a trans individual using the funding from their IndieGogo project to finance their operation; essentially taking the money and running. You can read more about it here.

HUMOROUS ASIDE: Yahtzee took a pot-shot at Anti-GG in this week's review.
 
I think "Save the Children" will be very interested in Gawker's call to bring back bullying!~

As for the sjws: They're mostly morons who jumped in the way to defend a cheating cretin for fucking her way to fame and trying to use said fucking to bring down a charity for women.
Sure they're not the focus but they made it pretty clear: They oughta be steamrolled along with the journalists. Putting those selfish ghouls in their place would be a nice extra perk.
 
Jim isn't always the nicest of people, but for most of those tweets he's either not directly involving the abusee in the verbal abuse (woman in checkout lane who will likely never read his twitter, etc) or he's punching upward instead of down. Doesn't really excuse him being vulgar and, frankly, idiotic, but apart from a few examples there he's at least avoided being directly abusive, and that's mostly what I care about. That's why I only got angry at Jontron when he told one of his fans he was "retarded" and not when he called the PS4 or whatever it was "retarded".

Wasn't that blacklisting thing over a guy outting a transwoman or something? Or am I thinking of something else?

SJWs may not be the main issue of GG but they are one of the causes and if you ask me they're a cancer to the industry. All most all of the glorified "journalists" are SJWs who don't write about games anymore but social issues in games (e.g. like how there isn't enough token minorities no matter how unfitting they are to the game).

The reason SJWs are a problem to the video game industry or any other artistic medium is their censorship of creativity. They want to force artist and writers through shaming and harassment to into being politically correct instead of allowing them to do what they want as a creator and not to let their work be objectively criticized by the public for what it's worth.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm trying to say here are some recent examples of SJWs at work.

- Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2's developers were criticized for having Dracula attack a woman and drinking her blood with them saying that it was allusion of rape despite the fact that vampires are suppose to be fucking evil and for years had been portrayed as biting the opposite sex in a usually sexual manner in every medium.

- Tomodachi Life panned and boycotted or not including gay marriage despite the fact that it was a game already released in Japan a year earlier and now because of the backlash Nintendo might not release the sequel in the west.

- Hatred had it's trailer released it was decried by them saying that the game is one of the worst in history and that it should not be released for it is too violent and offensive, despite the fact that games as violent had been released before like Postal 1&2 and also did nothing but boost awareness for it.

- Bayonetta was criticized for the design of the main character for being objectifying to women with them saying that only a man could have made such a character, once again getting everything wrong once you learn that Bayonetta's designer, Mari Shimazaki a woman, has said that she made the character sexualized because Bayonetta was power fantasy to her.

- Divinity Original Sin was attack while it was in kickstarter for having the female character's midriff exposed and the artist of the game were harassed to the point that they were forced to change the main character's clothes just the suit the SJW vocal minority.

I could go on with this, the fact of the matter is that SJWs are killing creativity by forcing artist to censor their work because they are "offended". This is happening everywhere SJWs can pop their heads into the discussion from Video games, Table tops, books, movies, cartoons, and any ideology that gets coped by them like atheism.

Yes it would be good if we can move past them on GG but they will keep forcing themselves into the argument no matter what we do because the journos are SJWs themselves or at least hiding behind them.
 
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SJWs may not be the main issue of GG but they are one of the causes and if you ask me they're a cancer to the industry. All most all of the glorified "journalists" are SJWs who don't write about games anymore but social issues in games (e.g. like how there isn't enough token minorities not matter how unfitting they are to the game).

The reason SJWs are a problem to the video game industry or any other artistic medium is their censorship of creativity. They want to force artist and writers through shaming and harassment to force them into being politically correct instead of allowing them to do what they want as an creator and not to let their work be objectively criticized by the public for what it's worth.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm trying to say here are some recent examples of SJWs at work.

- Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2's developers were criticized for having Dracula attack a woman and drinking her blood with them saying that it was allusion of rape despite the fact that vampires are suppose to be fucking evil and for years had been portrayed as biting the opposite sex in a usually sexual manner in every medium.

- Tomodachi Life panned and boycotted or not including gay marriage despite the fact that it was a game already released in Japan a year earlier and now because of the backlash Nintendo might not release the sequel in the west.

- Hatred had it's trailer released it was decried by them saying that the game is one of the worst in history and that it should not be released for it is too violent and offensive, despite the fact that games as violent had been released before like Postal 1&2 and also did nothing but boost awareness for it.

- Bayonetta was criticized for the design of he main character for being objectifying to women with them saying that only a man could have made such a character once again getting everything wrong once you learn that Bayonetta's designer, Mari Shimazaki a woman, has said that she made the character sexualized because Bayonetta was power fantasy to her.

- Divinity Original Sin was attack while it was in kickstarter for having the female character's midriff exposed and the artist of the game were harassed to the point that they were forced to change the main character's clothes just the suite the SJW vocal minority.

I could go on with this, the fact of the matter is that SJWs are killing creativity by forcing artist to censor their work because they are "offended". This is happening everywhere SJWs can pop their heads into the discussion from Video games, Table tops, books, movies, cartoons, and any ideology that gets coped by them like atheism.

Yes it would be good if we can move past them on GG but they will keep forcing themselves into the argument no matter what we do because the journos are SJWs themselves or at least hiding behind them.
Listen to this man. He speaks truth, and fights for your freedom.
 
SJWs may not be the main issue of GG but they are one of the causes and if you ask me, a cancer to the industry. All most all of the glorified "journalists" are SJWs who don't write about games anymore but social issues in games (e.g. like how there isn't enough token minorities not matter how unfitting they are to the game).

The reason SJWs are a problem to the video game industry or any other artistic medium is their censorship of creativity. They want to force artist and writers through shaming and harassment to force them into being politically correct instead of allowing them to do what they want as an creator and not to let their work be objectively criticized by the public for what it's worth.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm trying to say here are some recent examples of SJWs at work.

- Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2's developers were criticized for having Dracula attack a woman and drinking her blood with them saying that it was allusion of rape despite the fact that vampires are suppose to be fucking evil and for years had been portrayed as biting the opposite sex in a usually sexual manner in every medium.

- Tomodachi Life panned and boycotted or not including gay marriage despite the fact that it was a game already released in Japan a year earlier and now because of the backlash Nintendo might not release the sequel in the west.

- Hatred had it's trailer released it was decried by them saying that the game is one of the worst in history and that it should not be released for it is too violent and offensive, despite the fact that games as violent had been released before like Postal 1&2 and also did nothing but boost awareness for it.

- Bayonetta was criticized for the design of he main character for being objectifying to women with them saying that only a man could have made such a character once again getting everything wrong once you learn that Bayonetta's designer, Mari Shimazaki a woman, has said that she made the character sexualized because Bayonetta was power fantasy to her.

- Divinity Original Sin was attack while it was in kickstarter for having the female character's midriff exposed and the artist of the game were harassed to the point that they were forced to change the main character's clothes just the suit the SJW vocal minority.

I could go on with this, the fact of the matter is that SJWs are killing creativity by forcing artist to censor their work because they are "offended". This is happening everywhere SJWs can pop their heads into the discussion from Video games, Table tops, books, movies, cartoons, and any ideology that gets coped by them like atheism.

Yes it would be good if we can move past them on GG but they will keep forcing them self into the argument no matter what we do because the journos are SJWs themselves or at least hid behind them.

If the argument here is that a game should never ever be criticized unless you're doing it by not buying the game, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree. If nothing else, that kind of thinking hurts the developers more than it helps them. Video games take a long time to make, and publishers sink a lot of money into making just one of them, so having their audience keep hush about what they don't like about their game until it's too late to do anything about it can only be bad news for them. If a lot of people hated a feature that they could easily have left on the cutting room floor, I'm sure they'd be glad to know about it, at least I would if my ability to eat hinged upon the success of my game.

I can understand if people are being assholes about it and flaming their inbox or filling their twitter mentions with obnoxious insults, but that's just being an all-around jerk. You're trying to tell me that the simple act of letting Nintendo know that you're disappointed by Tomodachi Life because they didn't bother to consider the differences between Japanese and American culture before localizing it in the US is the cancer that's killing the video game industry. That's what I don't understand. I'd be 100% behind you if you said we should tone it down and not be so forceful about it, try to be more civil, but here it just sounds like you don't want anyone to have a voice at all unless they agree with your point of view on how social issues should be handled in games.
 
If the argument here is that a game should never ever be criticized unless you're doing it by not buying the game, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree. If nothing else, that kind of thinking hurts the developers more than it helps them. Video games take a long time to make, and publishers sink a lot of money into making just one of them, so having their audience keep hush about what they don't like about their game until it's too late to do anything about it can only be bad news for them. If a lot of people hated a feature that they could easily have left on the cutting room floor, I'm sure they'd be glad to know about it, at least I would if my ability to eat hinged upon the success of my game.

I can understand if people are being assholes about it and flaming their inbox or filling their twitter mentions with obnoxious insults, but that's just being an all-around jerk. You're trying to tell me that the simple act of letting Nintendo know that you're disappointed by Tomodachi Life because they didn't bother to consider the differences between Japanese and American culture before localizing it in the US is the cancer that's killing the video game industry. That's what I don't understand. I'd be 100% behind you if you said we should tone it down and not be so forceful about it, try to be more civil, but here it just sounds like you don't want anyone to have a voice at all unless they agree with your point of view on how social issues should be handled in games.
It wouldn't be an issue if they just approached it as criticism. That's not the case. When you hear a lot of them speak, you hear the words "top down" a lot. As in, we can't trust the consumer to make the right choices. They want to take control of it from the top and force the change down, whether it's through the media or the developers themselves. That's what's offensive to so many people.
 
It wouldn't be an issue if they just approached it as criticism. That's not the case. When you hear a lot of them speak, you hear the words "top down" a lot. As in, we can't trust the consumer to make the right choices. They want to take control of it from the top and force the change down, whether it's through the media or the developers themselves. That's what's offensive to so many people.
Have you seen gamers as of late? If this is a sample size I wouldn't trust them either.
 
It wouldn't be an issue if they just approached it as criticism. That's not the case. When you hear a lot of them speak, you hear the words "top down" a lot. As in, we can't trust the consumer to make the right choices. They want to take control of it from the top and force the change down, whether it's through the media or the developers themselves. That's what's offensive to so many people.

Are you talking about anyone specifically? Because I don't think I've heard anyone in the gaming media talking about "top down". Do you mean that they're controlling the narrative because there's not enough support in the general gaming population for these social issues? Because I don't think that's true. I mean, maybe not for the really radical ideas like Bayonetta being sexist or that thing with Dracula attacking a woman, but I think "based mom" said it best when she said that today's generation of gamers is the least racist and sexist generation yet (paraphrasing, of course). I really would not be surprised if the section of the gaming population who thought Divinity Original Sin's bikini armor looked ridiculous (I'm so sorry, but it did. it looked awful) wasn't just a vocal minority.
 
This one hits deep for me because I've had some real respect for NPR over the years. But they published a piece on their All Tech Considered blog that is so devoid of reality I think... I might have to break up with them and ask Reuters or the AP to take me back.

Pew: Gaming Is Least Welcoming Online Space For Women

As the ongoing, harassment-fueled controversy known as Gamergate rages into its second month with no sign of dying down, the Pew Research Center is out with new numbers on online harassment. They probably won't surprise you: 73 percent of respondents say they've witnessed some kind of threats or embarrassment online and 40 percent have experienced it, mostly in the form of being called offensive names.

[...]

The Pew research supports the notion that women are less welcome in the world of online gaming. Survey respondents, who were both men and women, were asked about a series of online platforms — social networks and online commenting forums, for example — and whether they thought those platforms were more welcoming to women, equally welcome to both sexes or more welcoming toward men.

Take note of the bolded part. Here's the graph, at the very bottom of the article, that is their big attention-grabbing AH HA of the whole piece.

Screen Shot 2014-10-22 at 4.28.17 PM.png


Seriously. Look at that graph. 51% of respondants thought that playing games only was EQUALLY FAIR to both sexes. 78% said that of online discussions? Was the writer at NPR eating shrooms when they wrote that? Here are some more statistics from the Pew research concerning Online Harassment:

Screen Shot 2014-10-22 at 4.20.06 PM.png


This says, to me, that everyone is harassed online. It's unfortunate that of the 8% of respondents who say they have been stalked online, that 26% of them are female and between 18-24 years old. Or that from the 6% of respondents who have been sexually harassed, 25% were females aged 18-24.

But that doesn't correlate to gaming. This extends to the anonymous nature of the internet and the proliferation of social media sites and forums for discussion.

And that NPR can take this and conflate it to "gamergate is evil and women are being punished"... it's a sad day.
 
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Are you talking about anyone specifically? Because I don't think I've heard anyone in the gaming media talking about "top down". Do you mean that they're controlling the narrative because there's not enough support in the general gaming population for these social issues? Because I don't think that's true. I mean, maybe not for the really radical ideas like Bayonetta being sexist or that thing with Dracula attacking a woman, but I think "based mom" said it best when she said that today's generation of gamers is the least racist and sexist generation yet (paraphrasing, of course). I really would not be surprised if the section of the gaming population who thought Divinity Original Sin's bikini armor looked ridiculous (I'm so sorry, but it did. it looked awful) wasn't just a vocal minority.

I believe he may have been referencing the likes of high-level so-called SJWs like Alex Lifschitz and his modern-day book burning. Fantastically wealthy and a stalwart in the Anti-GG camp, he's known for saying things like people who support the likes of GTAV "should be broken on racks."

It's far from a unique viewpoint. A lot of people like Lifschitz fucking hate that we get a choice in what we buy.
 
Actually, I don't think the majority of anti-gg folks are real SJW's, they just use SJW tactics when it benefits them. There has actually been a bit of a backlash on Tumblr recently against anti-gg, ever since Sam Biddle and pals decided to flush Gawker's reputation down the toilet.
 
I believe he may have been referencing the likes of high-level so-called SJWs like Alex Lifschitz and his modern-day book burning. Fantastically wealthy and a stalwart in the Anti-GG camp, he's known for saying things like people who support the likes of GTAV "should be broken on racks."

I'm guessing it's not just because this guy's really sore about being several hundred years too late to join the Spanish Inquisition? He sounds like a nutter.
 
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