🎭 Dramacow Gamergate / Depression Quest Shitstorm

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Oh that is delicious. I love Bayonetta. She's on my "to cosplay" list. What I get from the games about the character is that she's extremely powerful, agile, slightly sadistic, incredibly flamboyant and completely sexually confident. I have no problems with any of these things. I enjoy these things in my escapism.

I'm actually trying to convince my girlfriend to buy her daughter a Wii-U, so I can buy Bayonetta 2 and play it when she's at her fathers. I thought the first one was fantastic and incredibly obviously designed as tongue-in-cheek cheesecake with a woman who kicks the shit out of everyone, including with her sexuality that she is so in control of it's actually weaponized.

But I'm a straight white dude, and maybe that kind of thing isn't really empowering? I really don't know, that's not a snarky throw away line either, I've never given much thought before. But I would think a character like Bayonetta who fits in the world created, an absolutely over the top world full of outlandishness, and she doesn't come across as weak or pandering or like a centerfold would be championed. I thought the same thing about the new Tomb Raider - that Lara Croft was so far from the 1 dimensional PSX era character you can't even compare them. But people screamed about that one too, because she could die dramatically, and that was sexist and misogynistic and just tastelessly gross.
 
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Try and pick out the out-of-place review. It's hard, and it comes from way out of no where, but I think your wolf-trained eagle-eyes might be able to spot it.

Edit: Oh, and according to Jezebel people who support #Gamergate aren't Crusaders for Ethics, they're a hate group.

Now this is all baseless conjecture, but why has Gawker media published 3 articles on Gamergate, on 3 different sites, in less than a week? Maybe it's because Kotaku is starting to cost Nick Denton money, or terrifying him that advertisers might pull out due to his staff, and he's trying to scold everyone for it?

Because that worked great for Gamasutra.

I love it when they label GG as hate group, KKK, Ayrian brotherhood, Nation of Islam, New Black Panthers, Westboro Baptist Church nah what those guys did is potatoes to what gamers have done.

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Forgot to put in quote.
 
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Okay, I want to know something about Bayonetta now, because I have been keeping my distance from it as a whole.

As much as her weaponized sexuality makes sense, how much of it is for the in-universe characters and how much is for the player? At least one contact of mine referred to her as being more of a prude [as in, bringing legitimate sexual stuff with her icks her out], with the show-off nature being more a side-effect of her showy moves.

In short, how much does the 'if I'm gonna stare at someone's ass for thirty hours, it might as well be a sexy woman' answer [from Tomb Raider development] apply here?

[I don't think she's a misogynistic character, I just don't like her design because I hate her face and hairstyle from the first game. Clothes aren't bad.]
 
I'm actually trying to convince my girlfriend to buy her daughter a Wii-U, so I can buy Bayonetta 2 and play it when she's at her fathers. I thought the first one was fantastic and incredibly obviously designed as tongue-in-cheek cheesecake with a woman who kicks the shit out of everyone, including with her sexuality that she is so in control of it's actually weaponized.

But I'm a straight white dude, and maybe that kind of thing isn't really empowering? I really don't know, that's not a snarky throw away line either, I've never given much thought before. But I would think a character like Bayonetta who fits in the world created, an absolutely over the top world full of outlandishness, and she doesn't come across as weak or pandering or like a centerfold would be championed. I thought the same thing about the new Tomb Raider - that Lara Croft was so far from the 1 dimensional PSX era character you can't even compare them. But people screamed about that one too, because she could die dramatically, and that was sexist and misogynistic and just tastelessly gross.

I get unnecessarily annoyed at the changes in Lara. Mostly because they make absolutely no sense from her character's point of view. Lara is supposed to be British aristocracy. Croft Manor has been in the family for generations so they are landed gentry. Their land would have been part of at least one shoot. The deer would need culling every year and Lara would mostly likely have hunted them and possibly even been blooded (Kate Middleton got blooded with her first deer kill). The house would have a specialised outbuilding for hanging game carcasses in. Fox hunting was still legal here when Lara would have been a child. She supposedly went to a boarding school with other girls, from similar families who would have had shooting and archery lessons. They would have dissected animals in class... I know it sounds a bit spergy but she wouldn't be crying over a dead deer. The new Lara seems to have the life experiences of a sheltered valley girl/new money not British gentry.

Edit: When it comes to the dying thing I used to measure the height of places like St Francis's Folly in screams. Save game and instantly throw her off the top.

Okay, I want to know something about Bayonetta now, because I have been keeping my distance from it as a whole.

As much as her weaponized sexuality makes sense, how much of it is for the in-universe characters and how much is for the player? At least one contact of mine referred to her as being more of a prude [as in, bringing legitimate sexual stuff with her icks her out], with the show-off nature being more a side-effect of her showy moves.

In short, how much does the 'if I'm gonna stare at someone's ass for thirty hours, it might as well be a sexy woman' answer [from Tomb Raider development] apply here?

[I don't think she's a misogynistic character, I just don't like her design because I hate her face and hairstyle from the first game. Clothes aren't bad.]

It's both. Witches have always been associated with sexually liberated women (moonlight dancing nekkid etc). Were they referring to Bayonetta as being a prude? Just wanted to clarify the sentence. I don't find that at all. If it's because she never does a full reveal or does the nasty then I personally think it's because nothing would live up to the hype. Imagining a character as crazy and confident as Bayonetta having sex is always going to be better than any attempt to depict it. Her sexuality is also supposed to be intimidating to the players the vast majority of which will be male. People tend to be more intimidated or scared by what they don't know or understand and male and female sexuality is very different.

Also I enjoy staring at her butt. It is a very well rendered sexy lady butt.
 
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I get unnecessarily annoyed at the changes in Lara. Mostly because they make absolutely no sense from her character's point of view. Lara is supposed to be British aristocracy. Croft Manor has been in the family for generations so they are landed gentry. Their land would have been part of at least one shoot. The deer would need culling every year and Lara would mostly likely have hunted them and possibly even been blooded (Kate Middleton got blooded with her first deer kill). The house would have a specialised outbuilding for hanging game carcasses in. Fox hunting was still legal here when Lara would have been a child. She supposedly went to a boarding school with other girls, from similar families who would have had shooting and archery lessons. They would have dissected animals in class... I know it sounds a bit spergy but she wouldn't be crying over a dead deer. The new Lara seems to have the life experiences of a sheltered valley girl/new money not British gentry.

Edit: When it comes to the dying thing I used to measure the height of places like St Francis's Folly in screams. Save game and instantly throw her off the top.

I think they tried to make Lara more "relatable" like what they did to Samus in Other M. The problem in both these cases is that it takes out personality traits that would make sense based on the character's lore, and instead inserts whatever the writers felt would make them "relatable and more human".

Hence you end up with Lara losing it because she killed a deer in a survival situation, and a Samus that has PTSD because the baby. I'm sure I've seen people out there that have treated these "character asasinations" as another example of male developers being out of touch with "women", I can't find the link I'm looking for...
 
MSNBC just ran a story on Gamergate, and of course it was the "misogynist anti-feminist movement" story. The hashtag has left the orbit.
remember "Hackers on Steroids"?

yeah this is about as likely to kill gamergate as fox's hit piece was to kill 4chan
 
I think they tried to make Lara more "relatable" like what they did to Samus in Other M. The problem in both these cases is that it takes out personality traits that would make sense based on the character's lore, and instead inserts whatever the writers felt would make them "relatable and more human".

Hence you end up with Lara losing it because she killed a deer in a survival situation, and a Samus that has PTSD because the baby. I'm sure I've seen people out there that have treated these "character asasinations" as another example of male developers being out of touch with "women", I can't find the link I'm looking for...

Actually, you just reminded me of something I've been wanting to bitch about for a while. Hold onto your seats, peeps, this gon' be good.

Time for story funtime.

Other M gets a lot of deserved flak for ruining Samus' character, and with good reason, but it has always had one defense it's always habitually been able to hide itself behind: that Samus had no characterization otherwise, with the exception of Metroid Fusion's monologues and the official Manga (which was launched alongside Zero Mission and only in Japan). For now, we're going to ignore the fact that Other M's plot literally contradicts every other game in the series, and the fact that, even though a lot of people do not consider the Metroid Manga canon, it was by all accounts (also an enjoyable read; feel free to read the translated version of it after snagging it from my Box account). There is one character I know of, however, who was victimized infinitely worse than Samus Aran was by this sudden wave of a desire to portray previously-established-as-awesome female characters as vulnerable fragile snowflakes (I don't know who started this tendency, but it needs to go off into an alley someplace and leave everyone else the fuck alone).

I speak, of course, of Aya Brea.

Since it came out some time in the late 90s, Parasite Eve became an instant favorite with me, both for the strong characterization, grotesque monster design, and combination of horror and RPG elements. The first game is good - not really a great game in and of itself, being intensely linear and highly exploitable for anyone who knows how to break the game's weapon-crafting system (or who has the time to farm), but still enjoyable, with excellent music and some really good overarching gameplay elements. The protagonist of this game was one Aya Brea, a New York police officer who winds up being one of the only survivors of a horrifying incident wherein a concert she attended suddenly has a rash of spontaneous human combustions of the audience. Aya herself, it turns out, has a reason she was spared from the effect that immolated pretty much everyone else. Without spoilering too much, Aya turns out to have a connection with the cause of the incident that gives her the ability to fight such creatures, and her coming to terms with that and what it portends whilst at the same time trying to control a fucking potential apocalypse before it can spread beyond Manhattan forms a major crux of the game.

It's Parasite Eve 2, however, that is the better of the two - nicely getting into Aya's mindset and characterization far more deeply and intensely than in the first game. To this day, it's one of my favorite PS1 games, with graphics above and beyond what many titles were capable of and having far more depth and interesting ideas than your standard survival horror game. It even manages to be legitimately scary in spots - more so than PE1, at least.

But we're getting off-focus here, and that focus is miss Brea.

EJkHnCf.jpg


Aya herself, characterization-wise, was a great character overall - she was snarky, sarcastic, dangerously competent, willing to call bullshit when she saw it, and with a number of personal flaws that made her compelling. Her unique aspect of having bizarre freaky cell-related mitochondria powers gave her quite a few quirks, wherein she was hesitant to get close to people she didn't know well, and becoming somewhat withdrawn at times when coming to terms with her powers, not quite being able to shake the fear of what'd happen if she misfired or the abilities she had caused her to degrade into something wholly inhuman. By Parasite Eve 2, she had holstered most of her fears, but her active attempts to "live normally," without using them, caused the majority of her mitochondrial powers to degrade - they were still usable, but she'd have to draw them back out through use, trial, and effort, like having to go through physical therapy. She was a really good example of how to balance badassery with vulnerability.

Parasite Eve 2 had several endings, but the best and most complete one had Aya having a family of her own of a sort (a "younger sister" that was actually a clone of Aya herself made by a group of supremely short-sighted rich assholes), and her meeting up with an old friend who had previously gone missing, which had strongly suggested some sort of interesting continuation of the story down the line. Fans were hopeful. And then, it happened.

Years later, we got The Third Birthday. This is Aya in The Third Birthday:

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This says a lot, but worry not, friends - it gets way worse. Gone is Aya's characterization in The Third Birthday, and indeed, so is the characterization of literally every returning character (Maeda, for example, from PE1 is metamorphed from a nerdy scientist who believes in luck charms to a full-on 2ch-esque creeper that acts all in the world like he needs a visit from Chris Hansen). The only character you immediately notice from PE2 in The Third Birthday is Madigan, who Aya was kind of sweet on despite his being kind of a prick sometimes. But it's Aya herself who clearly got the worst end of the stick. She is a subdued, withdrawn, borderline-catatonic individual in this game, hardly responsive and rarely contributing more than a few lines throughout the entire game. One of the quintessential awesome female characters of the 90s, and she's now a gritty quiet introvert who barely responds and has her clothes torn up as you fight (which wouldn't be so bad if anything she wore were practical, but nein, torn blue jeans, a top like that one, and a light winter coat are perfect attire for roaming NY mid-winter).

The plot is a convoluted mess involving Time Travel (goodie), wherein some horrid entity from beyond known timespace have journeyed back in time to OMNOMNOM humanity.The bulk of the game relies on using a sort of temporal projection device to push events in humanity's favor so that we may yet get to fight another day, and yes, this convoluted mess of a plot gets even worse before it goes anywhere. Throughout the series, we're confronted constantly by characters we're obstenibly supposed to know and don't, and confronted by characters who act nothing like their previous incarnations. But the biggest punch in the dick, the biggest absolute, ridiculous, insulting pile of bullshit is yet to come, in the game's concluding chapters.

It's eventually revealed that this not-Aya we've been playing with all game long isn't Aya at all. It's Eve, from PE2. Apparently, Aya's wedding (to Madigan, from PE2) was crashed by the government, when they decided that Aya, with all her freaky mitochondria power bullshit, was too dangerous to be left alive. Eve, in an effort to save Aya (who is the sarcastic, witty, badass Aya we've all come to know in love, not this introverted insult in her place), used her dive ability (the one we use throughout T3B to jump into the bodies of various soldiers and such in the aforementioned temporal projection), and the resulting trauma it caused killed Aya and caused the Twisted.... Somehow. It's not really explained. In order to make the timeline right and make the Twisted not exist, we have to kill the actual Aya so that the Dive won't do it. All that time-travel nonsense, and we save the world by shooting a beloved franchise character in the face. Eve herself is then left in Aya's body, wherein she's set to marry Madigan in her place, the latter (and other wedding party attendants) nonethewiser.

Eve was sixteen at the time when this happened. Eww.

I've always found it way more offensive when a franchise takes an established character like Samus Aran, Aya Brea, and so on, and turns them from someone who's competent, intelligent, and a rounded character whose experiences define them to an inept, fragile, oh-so-tragic little bird who is perpetually at the start of their career and absolutely, positively, must wear their status on their sleeve like a fucking badge. I don't know where this sudden line of thinking that all female characters have to be like this nowadays, but it can fuck right off, and I'm really goddamned glad that we have the likes of a Bayonetta to tell that mindset where to stick it.

Idly though, I kind of wonder why there's not more so-called SJW response from the likes of the Other M or Third Birthday thing. You think they'd be all over the misogyny angle on those, especially the fucking latter.

remember "Hackers on Steroids"?

yeah this is about as likely to kill gamergate as fox's hit piece was to kill 4chan

So a source of infinite memes and not much else, then.

The rapetrain has no brakes. Cue up the music and let's go for a ride.
 
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Idly though, I kind of wonder why there's not more so-called SJW response from the likes of the Other M or Third Birthday thing. You think they'd be all over the misogyny angle on those, especially the fucking latter.

Probably because they believe that women should only be strong by being manipulative fuckwits and little else. Think about it for a second. Think about who these people look up to and how they accomplish their goals.
 
Well, after canvassing the situation on twitter, antiGG has zero presence and GG seems to have become nigh rabid in increasing both boycott and opening up avenues of media exposure wherever possible. some rumor Fox is interested.

great fcking job anti GamerGate. after a dozen attempts to kill the movement you have ensured it just gets bigger and meaner and smarter
 
I'm starting to really enjoy TheRalphRetort for having pretty scathing takedowns of idiots. They have not failed my lofty expectations as they call out that doofus on Polygon for his Bayonetta article. What did he discover?

That this man who cries about Bayonetta being TOO sexy, just so overly sexualized, so awful in it's presentation of women, is also a subscriber to Suicide Girls, a website dedicated to cheesecake softcore of scene girls. Because real women getting paid to be in pornography = empowered (like Zoe Quinn tried to do). Fake women created for fake stories about witches with hair-clothing who fight evil angels = sexist (like from a game company that he has panned two of their very well received games).

lol ok.
 
I'm starting to really enjoy TheRalphRetort for having pretty scathing takedowns of idiots. They have not failed my lofty expectations as they call out that doofus on Polygon for his Bayonetta article. What did he discover?

That this man who cries about Bayonetta being TOO sexy, just so overly sexualized, so awful in it's presentation of women, is also a subscriber to Suicide Girls, a website dedicated to cheesecake softcore of scene girls. Because real women getting paid to be in pornography = empowered (like Zoe Quinn tried to do). Fake women created for fake stories about witches with hair-clothing who fight evil angels = sexist (like from a game company that he has panned two of their very well received games).

lol ok.
Keen! Another Dobson.
 
Probably because they believe that women should only be strong by being manipulative fuckwits and little else. Think about it for a second. Think about who these people look up to and how they accomplish their goals.
I always hate when people think their being clever and progressive by thinking they can write a female character good by making them arrogant assholes who do nothing but talk tough and end up insulting the audience, one example of what I'm talking about is Morrigan from DA:O.

They tried making her "bad ass" but end up making her look like idiot who disagrees with you constantly if you don't do the evil option no matter how senseless it is so she would look pragmatic, but a well written pragmatist character would be willing to do good or evil deeds so long as it helps them further their goals, something Bioware seems to not be able comprehend when ever they do morality.
 
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Apparantly the journalist who interviewed brienna and did the shitpiece may be willing to hear out Gamergate in a followup piece

https://twitter.com/lexisb/with_replies

If this turns out well (and whoever speaks for gamergate does so coherently and intelligently) we could see yet another escelation....or if she tries smearing again we could see infinitly more fury from gamergate

either way...

6f6.gif
 
Off topic but Parasite Eve 2 was a fucking amazing game, I sooooo wanted to be Aya Brea when I was little (despite being a dude) because she was just so tough and badass and full of wit and sarcasm. But to see her basically turned into a derp in The Third Birthday was dissapointing and it surprised me as well no one called them out on it.
 
It's both. Witches have always been associated with sexually liberated women (moonlight dancing nekkid etc). Were they referring to Bayonetta as being a prude? Just wanted to clarify the sentence. I don't find that at all. If it's because she never does a full reveal or does the nasty then I personally think it's because nothing would live up to the hype. Imagining a character as crazy and confident as Bayonetta having sex is always going to be better than any attempt to depict it. Her sexuality is also supposed to be intimidating to the players the vast majority of which will be male. People tend to be more intimidated or scared by what they don't know or understand and male and female sexuality is very different.

Also I enjoy staring at her butt. It is a very well rendered sexy lady butt.
To quote said contact's explanation...
Basically, my point is that for all of Bayonetta posing for the player and showing off in-gameplay, this does not fit her personality, desires, and actions in the story.

Bayonetta is sexless in the story. Chaste at best, asexual at worst. She even react with repulsion at the idea of attraction.

Basically, she is 'aggressively sexual'... on the most superficial level possible: in name and looks only.

Why bother with posing and trying to get a rise of people when she specifically does not want to?

What would prevent her then from putting some actual clothes on? Or at least from not posing randomly and *uselessly* all the tme?

If she doesn't enjoy it, doesn't want it... then why do it?

It's not like it's to taunt people because when they actually notice the obvious, she gets offended.
I don't think I was particularly expecting her to do it in graphic view, but as brought up, the issue is 'how much of it does she actually enjoy?'. You can have a power you do not like and not display your dislike, but as seen in said contact's words, she gets offended when someone brings up that stuff. Is the context here misplaced as well and it's how they say it that causes that impression?
 
So the main concern is that inevitably Fox and CNN will pick this story up, and if Fox puts their spin on it this could devolve into an argument over left/right-wing politics, thus clouding the actual purpose of GamerGate.

Ultimately, the objective is to make MSNBC or CNN actually check their facts before they spew their drivel on the Internet. Doing that would be a major victory for GamerGate.
 
To quote said contact's explanation...
I don't think I was particularly expecting her to do it in graphic view, but as brought up, the issue is 'how much of it does she actually enjoy?'. You can have a power you do not like and not display your dislike, but as seen in said contact's words, she gets offended when someone brings up that stuff. Is the context here misplaced as well and it's how they say it that causes that impression?

I think your friend is missing the point somewhat. Just because Bayonetta doesn't want to have sex with someone does not mean she doesn't enjoy exerting power over them sexually. Bayonetta is never attainable but that doesn't mean she doesn't want to be desired. There is also a certain amount of scorn for those who are attracted to her. IIRC (I will go replay to check) Bayonetta is sarcastic and aloof at all times so I have no idea where your friend gets these impressions from.

Edit: Just skimmed through a few cutscenes from the first one and check out this bit with Luke:


She is toying with him and thoroughly enjoying it. She calls him Cheshire which implies he's her pet. How is she not enjoying her sexuality?

This also might have veered off-topic somewhat. I apologise.
 
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So the main concern is that inevitably Fox and CNN will pick this story up, and if Fox puts their spin on it this could devolve into an argument over left/right-wing politics, thus clouding the actual purpose of GamerGate.

Ultimately, the objective is to make MSNBC or CNN actually check their facts before they spew their drivel on the Internet. Doing that would be a major victory for GamerGate.

The people who watch Fox News don't give a damn about video games. They're not going to jump and co-opt Gamergate even if Fox News reports it. And the opposition has already been trying to paint this as a conservative backlash movement. None of that matters in the big picture so long as Gamergate knows where it stands.
 
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