🎭 Dramacow Gamergate / Depression Quest Shitstorm

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People need to know that Zoe has a history of lying and manipulation. They need to know that she hurt people who were just trying to do good (The Young Capitalists) in order to further her own career. They also need to know that game journalism has failed them. But I agree that personally harassing Zoe is retarded.
 
CuriousBystander said:
People need to know that Zoe has a history of lying and manipulation. They need to know that she hurt people who were just trying to do good (The Young Capitalists) in order to further her own career. They also need to know that game journalism has failed them. But I agree that personally harassing Zoe is retarded.
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Well, nobody major's gonna let people know since Zoe's just shagging people for good press and/or a personal army so I doubt people are going to know. If they do, they'll probably ignore it anyway. Sjws have a habit of doing that.
 
/r/KotakuInAction

Also Vice ran a story on this and pretty much kept with the Status Quo by making 4chan/anit-quinnians the villains and doing no goddamn research. People told them off in the comments and Vice censored them by deleting and disabling the comments for the story.
 
WWWWolf said:
I had a small revelation. I follow many forums about feminism, and when people start discussing the often dysfunctional nature of gaming and attitudes among games, you pretty often you hear the same tired old comments from gamers along the lines of "there's nothing wrong with gaming, duuuhrp".

No, just no. Every time I hear this, I think that the people who are part of the problem are generally not willing to admit there's any problems, while everyone else (the majority of the people, who are generally pretty cool and understand that dickwaddery in video gaming is not exactly preferrable) is kind of just hoping the problems go away.

It's just the way things are. We always know there are problems, but nobody's willing to make a stand. Needless to say, this is just basic psychology, nothing to do with feminism or gaming specifically.
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Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I really wanted to respond to this with my perspective as a female gamer. I'm curious about the problems you see with gaming. The main ones I think of are:

1. Not enough women in the industry.
2. Toxic environments for women in MMOs and online multiplayer.
3. Overt sexualization of female characters and a lack of strong female role models.

On point one, I agree. While I will sing the praises of Amy Hennig day and night I really can't think of any other prominent women in the industry off the top of my head. This may be a failure on my part to actively seek these women out, I admit that. (EDIT: See Lordtostington's post!) However, in order to be a part of the gaming industry, you have to actually make games. Zoe Quinn did not make a game, she made internet drama.

As for point two, I have some serious mixed feelings. Although I have experienced some harassment when using female avatars in WoW (despite 90% of the players who do so actually being male) as well as harassment when I self identify as female in an online gaming environment, I've also been harassed by people who had no idea about my gender. Games are competitive. Smack talk happens to everyone. It's an innate part of human nature to establish the pecking order, an impulse that cuts down right to the very core of our DNA, and it's not going to go away. As for derogatory statements targeted specifically at women, this issue has more to do with society in general than gamers specifically.

Number three, I have a lot of issues with. I could care less how big Lara Croft's boobs are as long as she keeps kicking ass. I can point to many examples of sexualized male characters:

Wallpaper_prince_of_persia_the_two_thrones_12_1600.jpg
soul-calibur-5-voldo-artwork.jpg
DMC3Dante.png
raziel20vampiro202.jpg
LEON-resident-evil-4-33608023-1188-1213.png
boxart.jpg

I also don't have more of a problem with damsel in distress characters in games than I do in other media. This is an ancient trope. The fact that it's often used in video games is not the issue. If you do have an issue with it, then your issue is with the trope - not the media in which it is portrayed.
 
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Ricepirate · @RicepirateMick
27th Aug 2014 from TwitLonger



Not being extreme means you're always the bad guy. (@Shnikkles @psychicpebble )
Recent example, among many:

I was labeled by some as a SJW, because I was against angered gamers posting nudes of Zoe Quinn because I thought it was distracting from the cause of shedding light on biased journalism, while giving Quinn supporters ammunition to justify their blanket judgment of the gaming community.

I was labeled a misogynist and a bigot for taking issue with biased response articles void of fact with a clear intent to incite anger from the gaming community in order to back up their claims of riotous mobs. I'd made no mention of Zoe or feminism.

I was labeled a dick sucker for tweeting a friend about how I believed extremists on both sides were cherry-picking specific comments in order to "prove" their points and rally support.

If you don't pick a side, the extremists are going to assign you one. You're either with them all the way, or you're against them. What really frustrates me, is that I believe both sides are fully aware of how they are playing on the emotions of their audiences and using that as leverage to further their personal agendas and snuff out any opposing views, no matter how calm or sound or logical or genuine in its attempt to create a dialogue. "CALM AND LOGICAL? LOOK AT THIS! YOU CALL THIS CALM AND LOGICAL??!! PFFFT" ... is a common deflection, pointing at examples from opposing extremes, completely ignoring and avoiding a civil discussion from those who just want everyone to stop shouting and fucking talk.

There are many cases of this happening at this moment, far beyond the twitter-sphere. ISIS, Ferguson, the White House... and in many cases, it seems apparent that unless you're willing to completely give in to one side, believe completely and with no doubt or debate that the side you chose is the right one, the only one ... no one cares what you think, because you're not "right" enough or "wrong" enough to garner their attention. But as a general default... yer wrong.
 
CuriousBystander said:
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I really wanted to respond to this with my perspective as a female gamer. I'm curious about the problems you see with gaming. The main ones I think of are:

1. Not enough women in the industry.
2. Toxic environments for women in MMOs and online multiplayer.
3. Overt sexualization of female characters and a lack of strong female role models.

On point one, I agree. While I will sing the praises of Amy Hennig day and night I really can't think of any other prominent women in the industry off the top of my head. This may be a failure on my part to actively seek these women out, I admit that. However, in order to be a part of the gaming industry, you have to actually make games. Zoe Quinn did not make a game, she made internet drama.

As for point two, I have some serious mixed feelings. Although I have experienced some harassment when using female avatars in WoW (despite 90% of the players who do so actually being male) as well as harassment when I self identify as female in an online gaming environment, I've also been harassed by people who had no idea about my gender. Games are competitive. Smack talk happens to everyone. It's an innate part of human nature to establish the pecking order, an impulse that cuts down right to the very core of our DNA, and it's not going to go away. As for derogatory statements targeted specifically at women, this issue has more to do with society in general than gamers specifically.

Number three, I have a lot of issues with. I could care less how big Lara Croft's boobs are as long as she keeps kicking ass. I can point to many examples of sexualized male characters:

Wallpaper_prince_of_persia_the_two_thrones_12_1600.jpg
soul-calibur-5-voldo-artwork.jpg
DMC3Dante.png
raziel20vampiro202.jpg
LEON-resident-evil-4-33608023-1188-1213.png
boxart.jpg

I also don't have more of a problem with damsel in distress characters in games than I do in other media. This is an ancient trope. The fact that it's often used in video games is not the issue. If you do have an issue with it, then your issue is with the trope - not the media in which it is portrayed.
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There are quite a few women in games! Jade Raymond helped get Assassin's Creed off the ground at Ubi. Roberta Williams pretty much invented the adventure game. Carol Shaw made River Raid. Lucy Bradshaw runs Maxis. There are a lot more; those are just off the top of my head. Really salient points all around!

Edit: Didn't mean to imply that women are just as prominent in the industry as men. They're totally not. I just wanted to point out a few women that stand out to me.
 
DrChristianTroy said:
Amazed this is still a thing. At this point nobody looks, Zoe or the people still harassing her, any good.
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Clear out boys, the new Clyde Cash has put down the kabosh.


Panda Poison said:
Ricepirate · @RicepirateMick
27th Aug 2014 from TwitLonger



Not being extreme means you're always the bad guy. (@Shnikkles @psychicpebble )
Recent example, among many:

I was labeled by some as a SJW, because I was against angered gamers posting nudes of Zoe Quinn because I thought it was distracting from the cause of shedding light on biased journalism, while giving Quinn supporters ammunition to justify their blanket judgment of the gaming community.

I was labeled a misogynist and a bigot for taking issue with biased response articles void of fact with a clear intent to incite anger from the gaming community in order to back up their claims of riotous mobs. I'd made no mention of Zoe or feminism.

I was labeled a dick sucker for tweeting a friend about how I believed extremists on both sides were cherry-picking specific comments in order to "prove" their points and rally support.

If you don't pick a side, the extremists are going to assign you one. You're either with them all the way, or you're against them. What really frustrates me, is that I believe both sides are fully aware of how they are playing on the emotions of their audiences and using that as leverage to further their personal agendas and snuff out any opposing views, no matter how calm or sound or logical or genuine in its attempt to create a dialogue. "CALM AND LOGICAL? LOOK AT THIS! YOU CALL THIS CALM AND LOGICAL??!! PFFFT" ... is a common deflection, pointing at examples from opposing extremes, completely ignoring and avoiding a civil discussion from those who just want everyone to stop shouting and fucking talk.

There are many cases of this happening at this moment, far beyond the twitter-sphere. ISIS, Ferguson, the White House... and in many cases, it seems apparent that unless you're willing to completely give in to one side, believe completely and with no doubt or debate that the side you chose is the right one, the only one ... no one cares what you think, because you're not "right" enough or "wrong" enough to garner their attention. But as a general default... yer wrong.
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The problem here is that the two sides have been totally irreconcilable from Day One and they both know it. There isn't much common ground except they both participate in an activity that requires no common ground among participants.

The list of analogs is also kind of weird. I think most people want to believe that Ferguson is something people can eventually find peace over. I don't know what "The White House" means or refers to, except how dumb people refer to "politics" and other things they don't understand. I think most right-minded people hope ISIS winds up in a smoldering crater and ISIS wishes the same for the vast majority of the earth's population.
 
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Speaking of Women in game development, there was Roberta Williams, who co-founded Sierra On-Line and designed most of the King's Quest game and the first Phantasmagoria.
 
tehpope said:
Speaking of Women in game development, there was Roberta Williams, who co-founded Sierra On-Line and designed most of the King's Quest game and the first Phantasmagoria.
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Don't forget Sandy Carmack, who was a big contributor to the original Id Software team by all accounts.
 
Jaimas said:
She also could have used something even simpler: RPGMaker. Seriously, any of them, even RM95. If you don't think you can make an effective game about psychological issues with that engine, you're an idiot, because games like Yume Nikki could already do it, and games like Live a Live on SNES already did similar with about as much power. Even the old versions of RM95 have a programming language that can be learned in a few hours of study.
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Interesting that you brought up Yume Nikki because I heard the creator is allegedly a woman who based Yume Nikki off several incidents involving depression. I can't verify them because s/he is reclusive as fuck.
 
So I do have depression, and from what I heard about this crappy little thing on this thread... its off the ball.

You rarely KNOW you are in one of thoose downer moods. Just start acting irritable, like all the world is against you, dont want to do anything because of vauge reasons and for me, just want to sleep... and sleep... and sleep... Maybe you will even dream....

Yume Nikki is a better game about Depression then Depression Quest. And transgenderism, too!

WOODY_CHAN IS DEPRESSED

(Damn! That explains the sour tone of this post!)
 
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