UN Fourth Democratic Debate: A New Dope

Starts at 5pm-8pm PST / 7pm CST-10pm CST / 8pm-11pm EST

If you want to watch the debate go here or here

Welcome to fourth Democratic primary debates, tonight will feature:

Joe Biden former Vice President


Kamala Harris senator from California


Bernie "Heart Breaker" Sanders senator from Vermont


Andrew Yang businessman


Cory Booker senator from New Jersey and mutated Obama clone


Beto O'Rourke representative from Texas


Amy Klobuchar senator from Minnesota


Julian Castro former housing and urban development secretary


Pete Buttigieg mayor of South Bend


NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES: Tom Steyer billionaire and businessman


Elizabeth Warren Massachusetts senator


RETURNING: Tulsi Gabbard Hawaii representative


The poll will be posted after the debates. I'm happy to see Tulsi return, but I hate Tom Steyer, mixed bag. I predict tonight is going to be a total mess, this is make or break time.

 

[Absolutego]

Chris Cillizza's winners and losers from the fourth Democratic debate
https://www.cnn.com/profiles/chris-cillizza
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

Updated 2:35 AM ET, Wed October 16, 2019

(CNN) A dozen (!) Democratic presidential candidates took the stage in Ohio for the fourth debate of the 2020 election, the largest field ever to participate in a single debate.


I watched, took notes, tweeted and picked some of the best -- and the worst -- of the night. My winners and losers are below.

WINNERS
* Pete Buttigieg: The South Bend mayor had one clear goal in the debate: Hit Elizabeth Warren on her support for "Medicare for All," and make sure Democratic voters knew he had an alternate plan that would not eliminate the private health insurance market. Mission accomplished. And remember: The polling I've seen makes clear that voters prefer a plan that preserves the right to choose a private insurance plan than one that gets rid of the private market in favor of a government-run plan. Buttigieg didn't stop there. His response to Rep. Tulsi Gabbard's call to end "endless wars" was powerful, leaning heavily on his own military service. He slammed former Rep. Beto O'Rourke on gun control, with one of the lines of the night: "I don't need lessons from you in courage, political or personal." From beginning to end, Buttigieg was a dominant and commanding force. Yes, some will say he was "mean." But debates -- and primaries! -- are about drawing contrasts, and that is what Buttigieg did. And did very well.
* Andrew Yang: If I told you even three months ago that there would be a time in mid-October in which there was an extended conversation in a Democratic debate about the dangers of automation, you would have laughed at me. And yet, there we were on Tuesday night -- a full debate within the debate, about Yang's pet issue. It's a testament to Yang's remarkable rise in this race -- second only to Buttigieg's -- and to the fact that he is already having a significant impact on the conversation within the Democratic Party. Plus, that "MATH" pin was straight fire.

* Amy Klobuchar: At the moment, the Minnesota senator hasn't qualified for the next debate in November. Knowing that, Tuesday night was her last best chance to make a real move. And to her immense credit, she went for it. Knowing that Warren is now the front-runner (more on that below), Klobuchar went right after her. "Your idea is not the only idea," Klobuchar told Warren at one point. At another, she tried to make clear that Warren had no monopoly on "bold" ideas. At yet another, she accused Warren of "making Republican talking points right now." I'm not sure it changes anything in her polling. But she deserves credit for taking her best shot(s).
* Bernie Sanders: If you were watching the debate to see how Sanders fared in the wake of his recent heart attack, well, he was the same old Bernie: Irascible, impatient, sneaky funny and entirely unapologetic about his liberal solutions to the problems facing the country. In a moment indicative of Sanders' night, he was asked a question about his health, muttered something like "I'm fine" and then pivoted to talk policy. Also, it doesn't hurt that the news that New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would be endorsing him broke during the debate.

LOSERS
* Elizabeth Warren: Welcome to being the front-runner! Although polling suggests that Warren and Joe Biden are co-front-runners, it was crystal clear Tuesday night that the other 11 candidates on stage viewed the Massachusetts senator as the top dog. Which, in theory, is a good thing for her! But in practice, it didn't work out well. Buttigieg started things off by attacking her on Medicare for All -- and Warren was unable to provide a clear answer on a) whether she would raise taxes on middle-class Americans and b) if not, how would she find the money to pay for the plan. The hits kept coming. By my count, at least seven candidates attacked Warren at some point in the night -- and while she remains a very able debater, she was unable to parry all of those attacks effectively. Also, Warren saying that she'd like to see the US military presence gone entirely from the Middle East is going to come back to haunt her.
* Joe Biden: I wrote today that Biden needed a performance that wasn't just "good for Biden" but good by any measure. He came close-ish but, to my mind, didn't do enough. (Worth noting: I thought this was Biden's best debate performance; his answer on his age and health was probably his best answer of the debate season.) His answer on his son, Hunter, and Ukraine was meh: "My son's statement speaks for itself" was the best he could do, knowing that question had to be coming? And maybe it will play differently on replay, but Biden's shout-y "I got you votes" move on Warren felt not so good in the moment. I get the argument that Biden didn't take any big punches in this debate and stayed off the canvas. But ask yourself: is that the right bar for a former vice president and front-runner in this race from the jump?
* Kamala Harris: Nothing Harris did on Tuesday night will change her trajectory -- downward in this race. Her "Dude gotta go" line about Trump fell flat, as if the audience had sort of been there and done that. Harris' attempt to force Warren to agree with her that Donald Trump's Twitter account should be suspended felt small and not terribly effective. Harris has simply not been able to recapture the magic she had in that first debate of this election; Tuesday night was another swing and miss.
* Tom Steyer: When the most interesting thing about you in the debate is that you wore a plaid Christmas tie, you didn't have a good debate.
* Bing: Man, it's been a rough decade for Microsoft's search engine. And Yang reminded us all of that failure on Tuesday night. Well, we'll always have these original Bing ads!

Democratic debate winners and losers, according to Chris Cillizza - C…

archived 16 Oct 2019 06:50:15 UTC

archive.li

-------- end of article -----




I think you misunderstand my stance on Tulsi. I like her. I just don't think she wants to spend her life fighting this party. Always having to capitulate to them.
If you think Trump hasn't taken a lot of flack from the establishment for his approach, I don't know what to tell you.
He's been stymied at every turn. As for birthright citizenship - he doesn't have to issue an executive order.
This sums up the pushback and murkiness of going through with it ;

There are a few (dozen?) glitches in that Donald Trump plan to end birthright citizenship

From the Constitution and the Supreme Court to diplomatic immunity and Italian ancestry, it's complicated. And it's another way to torment Obama.

www.usatoday.com

And another, from CNN -

Trump again says he's looking 'seriously' at birthright citizenship despite 14th Amendment

President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he is "seriously" considering ending US birthright citizenship despite the fact that such a move would face immediate legal challenge and is at odds with Supreme Court precedent.

www.cnn.com

When you have a million bullets coming your way, what is the most strategic way to entertain them?
I know you dislike Trump, but come on. Let's be realistic and logical here. Even if this were a democrat, it'd be a fools errand right now to approach that.

Will Mayor Pete’s Breakout Performance Actually Move His Poll Numbers?
Damn I din't even know Pete was breaking out!

Will Mayor Pete’s Breakout Performance Actually Move His Poll Numbers…

archived 16 Oct 2019 07:29:06 UTC

archive.today

Spoiler: Article Text

Will Mayor Pete’s Breakout Performance Actually Move His Poll Numbers?

If previous debate fireworks are any guide, probably not.

By JEFF GREENFIELD

| October 16, 2019

It’s not hard to know what the fallout from this debate will be: Pete Buttigieg offered his strongest performance of his campaign, with a series of forceful, coherent arguments, and at least one contender for quote of the night. He drew the sharpest distinctions yet between him and the rest of the still crowded field, and gave voters a preview of the fight he might bring to a one-on-one debate with Donald Trump.

His pushback at Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s attack on what she labeled a bipartisan “regime change” foreign policy was the first sustained case any of the Democrats have offered in defense of an activist foreign policy—a case buttressed by Buttigieg’s military service.

“The slaughter going on in Syria is not a consequence of American presence,” he said, turning to Gabbard, who herself served in the Army. “It’s a consequence of a withdrawal and a betrayal by this president of American allies and American values….A small number of specialized, special operations forces and intelligence capabilities were the only thing that stood between that part of Syria and what we're seeing now, which is the beginning of a genocide and the resurgence of ISIS. Meanwhile soldiers in the field are reporting that for the first time they feel ashamed—ashamed of what their country has done. …When I was deployed, I knew one of the things keeping me safe was the flag on my shoulder represented a country that kept its word. You take that away, it takes away what makes America America.”


In that single answer, Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Indiana, folded in a defense of America’s international role with a concise assault on Trump’s invitation for Turkey to invade Syria. It was one of several instances where Buttigieg, lurking in the polls just below former Vice President Joe Biden and senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, made his strongest argument as a moderate alternative to front-running Biden, who, while avoiding rhetorical stumbles of past debates, seemed to fade into the scenery as the night went on.

Buttigieg, displaying a passion that many said was conspicuously lacking in his earlier appearances, punched up on the subject of the candidates’ competing heath care plans. When Elizabeth Warren once again promised that “costs will go down” for most Americans under her “no private insurance” idea, Buttigieg staked out an alternative that went to the heart of the political danger of a single-payer plan. He noted that Warren, like Bernie Sanders, repeatedly refused to acknowledge the fact that taxes will go up for the middle class, which they argued would be more than eased by an overall lowering of costs.

“A yes or no question that didn't get a yes or no answer,” Buttigieg chided. “This is why people are so frustrated. Your signature is to have a plan for everything, except this. No plan has been laid out to explain how a multi-trillion-dollar hole in this plan that Senator Warren is putting forward is supposed to get filled in. We can move forward with the biggest transformation since Medicare. The way to do it without a giant multi-trillion-dollar hole and avoiding a yes or no question is Medicare for all who want it.”

And in what is sure to be among the most featured moments of the night, Buttigieg displayed a bit of temper in an exchange with former Congressman Beto O’Rourke’s proposal for a mandatory buyback of assault weapons.

“The problem isn’t the polls, the problem is the policy,” Buttigieg said. “I don't need lessons from you on courage—personal or political. The problem is not other Democrats who don't agree with your particular idea of how to handle this. The problem is the National Rifle Association and their enablers in Congress and we should be united in taking the fight to them…

“What we owe to those survivors is a solution. We are at the cusp of building a new American majority to actually do things that congressmen and senators have been talking about with almost no impact for my entire adult life. This is really important, okay? On guns we are this close to an assault weapons ban. And we're going to get wrapped around the axle whether it's ‘Hell, yes, we’re going to take your guns?’”

If I’m right, Buttigieg will get the lion’s share of the “Who won?” judgments, with Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar earning high marks as the moderate voice of reason, and Sanders demonstrating no ill effects from his recent heart attack.

But this raises a more fundamental question: Will Buttigieg’s performance matter in the only way that really matters—a bump in the polls?

We have had one example of a much-heralded debate performance whose half-life proved non-existent. Kamala Harris’ critique of Joe Biden’s record on busing was the featured moment of the first debate. Her rise in the polls was followed by a steady return to single digits. Why? Perhaps it was her failure to explain exactly what her health care plan was; or that the distance between her and Biden on busing was shorter than first appeared; or that, in general the rationale for her campaign was less clear than her rivals. Whatever the cause, her one debate moment proved far too fragile to sustain a rise in support.

Less obvious, but equally significant, was Joe Biden’s continued presence at or near the top of the pack, despite three debates where he was heard wandering through a confusing rhetorical landscape of incomplete sentences, odd allusions and garbled statistics. His decades of experience, his ties to the still-wildly popular Obama, his strength among African-American politicians and voters, has thus far mattered more than his unsteady debate performances. And if you’re looking for a debate “moment” to account for Warren’s steady rise in the polls, you won’t find one. Instead, her overall debate presence has been characterized by a “no drama” offering of policies wrapped neatly around her striver’s biography and stories she has gathered from people she’s met on the trail.

For those of us whose professional lives revolve around politics—who only checked on the Washington-St. Louis game during commercial breaks—debates are often seen as high political drama, with enormous stakes. Every debate is viewed through the prism of the clashes leading up to a general election, even though we are three and a half months away from the first primary vote. And voters know this, which is why every survey shows a thumping majority of them say they either have no favorite or could change their minds.

If these debates matter as much as the coverage suggests they do, we should see some measurable movement in the polls. But even if we do, the more significant question is: Will that movement be sustained? Or are there other factors that will make the sound and fury of these debates underwhelming in the end?

It seemed like he displayed his lack of awareness of situations, and was trying to be catty and animated for the cameras without saying anything.
A few examples from article.
“The slaughter going on in Syria is a consequence of a withdrawal and a betrayal by this president of American allies and American values..."

This is so stupid and simplistic that if he really has this world view I have no words. More likely though he is just saying something he thinks will attack his peers and sound good as a clip to some.

“A yes or no question that didn't get a yes or no answer,” Buttigieg chided. >About Warren
“I don't need lessons from you on courage—personal or political." >To Beto
Watch out, this is the Sassy Mayor Pete.

But my favorite thing is the last two paragraphs. It's almost like a moment of realization for the author, that none of this really matters. He seems to realize this is all a waste of time. A shit tier soap opera with a cast of dislikeable fucks. With Celebrity Contests Polls being pointless as to who will actually get the Dem Nomination.
Imagine some weirdo like Ross Perot on the stage with all these crazy people, trying to explain basic economics. "We have got to stop sending jobs overseas" >Unrelated Ross Perot in 92

Spoiler: Mayor Pete preparing for his breakout

View attachment 973103

Oh wait this other Politico article says the debate was plain and unpretentious and serious. Guess I'm wrong, sorry guys.

Democrats stop faking it — and have a serious debate - POLITICO

archived 16 Oct 2019 08:34:23 UTC

archive.today

The damage control is real. After Gabbard humiliated Harris in the July debate, the media spent the morning after pretending Harris had been the breakout star, just like they now are with Buttigieg. I expect by November he'll adopt the same pattern of desperately trying to drag down the front runner he dislikes the most with embarrassing soundbites, like Harris did with trying to get Warren to commit to making Twitter ban Trump.

Deciding to catch up on this debate after missing a 3am showing where I am. I get the vibe i'm in for more autism than normal.

Nah, it was mostly the same ol', same ol'. Klobuchar had some new energy, Steyer was mostly ignored by the moderators, and Booker and Beto seem to have been written off, that's about the only differences.

 

[Matthew216]

oh god Castro is talking about the Las Vegas tunnels

The people who move down there are mostly unhireable mentally ills or people who would rather live in the tunnels than work. I have known people who have decided “screw work, I’d rather live in the tunnels”.

This would only be acceptable if they were also ninjas.

 

[Кот Бегемот]

my father has stage 4 cancer and I pay $400 a month for the privilege of bargaining for his life with insurance representatives as if they were some kind of slimy used car dealer every time he needs a procedure done that's more involved than changing a bandage. If you don't support medicare for all then you've never had to navigate the Americna healthcare system.

I've been a patient in US healthcare system and also in USSR. Trust me, be glad that you can do what you do. He would be long dead in USSR, as no medication, doctors or supplies were in abundance and any decent medical help required astronomical bribes (as Brezhnev famously said: "good doctor will never go hungry") to get anything done.

As much as the insurance and networks nightmare suck in US, I'm fucking soooo glad, that I can see a specialist without shoving bills into his assistant's pockets and I know that they can fetch pretty much any meds in existance, i.e. there is no shortage of Aspirin or other basic shit.

If it makes you feel any better, in some remote parts of Russia outside of Moscow and St. Pete's, hospitals wash used bandages to recycle them on other patients. Think about that.

 

[HumanHive]

I've been a patient in US healthcare system and also in USSR. Trust me, be glad that you can do what you do. He would be long dead in USSR, as no medication, doctors or supplies were in abundance and any decent medical help required astronomical bribes (as Brezhnev famously said: "good doctor will never go hungry") to get anything done.

As much as the insurance and networks nightmare suck in US, I'm fucking soooo glad, that I can see a specialist without shoving bills into his assistant's pockets and I know that they can fetch pretty much any meds in existance, i.e. there is no shortage of Aspirin or other basic shit.

If it makes you feel any better, in some remote parts of Russia outside of Moscow and St. Pete's, hospitals wash used bandages to recycle them on other patients. Think about that.

Good thing that wasn't real socialized medicine.

 

[Positron]

Add to that the “nervous pregnancy” phenomenon. Dunno how to translate it, but in French it’s called “grossesse nerveuse” - happened to a classmate of mine from a conservative Jewish family. Your body’s basically exhibiting signs of pregnancy (no period etc.) except you’re not pregnant; it’s all in your head. Supposedly it happens from stress or when you’re terrified of having children, idek.

Pseudocyesis. Don't let troons discover this condition or this word.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

I won: By not watching

 

[Кот Бегемот]

I won: By not watching

I tip my hat to all the farmers who were able to summarize this shit show in this thread without me watching that nightmare. Thank you comrades!

 

[Francis York Morgan]

Finished watching this morning. No clue why I did as these "debates" are largely pointless. Tulsi continues to be the only palatable candidate in this field to me, so of course she's barely mentioned in any of the coverage despite what I felt was a winning performance. Was surprised that Yang actually had a couple of sensible points but then he ruined it by mentioning the rest of his campaign platform.

It's looking like the idea is to push Warren now and, boy, that will be a disaster. She's awful in debates, the one thing Trump is incredible at (other than shitposting). If she ends up on the ticket then we might as well start looking at 2024.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

I tip my hat to all the farmers who were able to summarize this shit show in this thread without me watching that nightmare. Thank you comrades!

And here is the thing

10% of the audience influenced by debates actually watch

90% of those influenced watch it in prepackaged bites on news and social media

 

[PantsFreeZone]

Which Louisiana election?

These: https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/...2019/289-6accbafa-76d3-4f67-b3e5-d7d4a700fd9f

 

[Commander X]

While I disagree with Gabbard on some issues, the way the Establishment media and their craven allies and living megaphones have teamed up to portray her as some sort of agent of Mad Vlad Putin and Assad and even Trump, amplified by insane Russiagaters is pretty disgusting. You don't need to be pro-Tulsi - just someone willing to point out how toxic and vile it is to casually smear political opponents as traitors and Kremlin agents. Especially when it's done by Muppets like this, AIPAC shill Bakari Sellers

And of course the innuendo riddled smear piece in the New York Times

or as insinuated with no evidence in this piece in The Atlantic Monthly in September.

 

[It's HK-47]

I got called a nutcase a few months ago for saying the future of the Democratic party lies in pushing leftward. Nobody wants to believe the socialist but its painfully obvious that the cat is out of the bag and the myth of the careful moderate is imploding. When the squad officially endorse Bernie the shift will be practically complete.

Well you got your wish sooner than you expected. I wouldn't say that anyone was decrying that it was untrue that the future of the party is trending sharply leftward, more-so that the sharp, leftward angle it was taking was a serious mistake. Society as a whole generally bends itself towards the Left as time goes on because societies like moving towards liberty and individual freedoms, but you can't make such a sharp, violent swerve in that direction because after a certain point you're trending towards fascism.

There's no freedom in what most of these people are advocating for, it's nothing but oppression and control and taxation and fear. Seriously, go back and watch the debates again and look at how much fear they kept trying to instill in their audience. Not a single one of them was pushing a message of hope, it was all, "We need to ban X or people will die, our country is run by an insane criminal, we need to panic because ISIS is coming to the U.S.!"

It was just another wall-to-wall example of the Politics of Fear and I'm genuinely tired of politicians trying to shoehorn their way into power by threatening their audience. If you had no real frame of reference and perspective--and given that Liberals tend to almost exclusively gather their news from only liberal sources-- watching this debate would make you think that the world was on fire and Cletus was 10 seconds away from kicking down your door and shooting you because Trump told him to.

By catering to this small collection of Far-Left ideologues they're shutting out every moderate Democrat, every Centrists, and every moderate Republican. They won't allow these people to get anywhere near their platform, they just run them off as hard and as fast as they can and demand 100% conformity because anything less means you can't be a part of the game. It didn't work for the Religious Right, and it's not going to work for the 'Progressive' Left.

This wheel-cracking spin to the Left isn't going to save the Democratic party, it's going to destroy it.

 

[ConfederateIrishman]

Well you got your wish sooner than you expected. I wouldn't say that anyone was decrying that it was untrue that the future of the party is trending sharply leftward, more-so that the sharp, leftward angle it was taking was a serious mistake. Society as a whole generally bends itself towards the Left as time goes on because societies like moving towards liberty and individual freedoms, but you can't make such a sharp, violent swerve in that direction because after a certain point you're trending towards fascism.

There's no freedom in what most of these people are advocating for, it's nothing but oppression and control and taxation and fear. Seriously, go back and watch the debates again and look at how much fear they kept trying to instill in their audience. Not a single one of them was pushing a message of hope, it was all, "We need to ban X or people will die, our country is run by an insane criminal, we need to panic because ISIS is coming to the U.S.!"

It was just another wall-to-wall example of the Politics of Fear and I'm genuinely tired of politicians trying to shoehorn their way into power by threatening their audience. If you had no real frame of reference and perspective--and given that Liberals tend to almost exclusively gather their news from only liberal sources-- watching this debate would make you think that the world was on fire and Cletus was 10 seconds away from kicking down your door and shooting you because Trump told him to.

By catering to this small collection of Far-Left ideologues they're shutting out every moderate Democrat, every Centrists, and every moderate Republican. They won't allow these people to get anywhere near their platform, they just run them off as hard and as fast as they can and demand 100% conformity because anything less means you can't be a part of the game. It didn't work for the Religious Right, and it's not going to work for the 'Progressive' Left.

This wheel-cracking spin to the Left isn't going to save the Democratic party, it's going to destroy it.

I dunno, I don't think the center can hold at this point; Actually I feel if the center isn't careful it could easily fall into the same trap centrists fell into during the Spanish Civil War: Having all sides see them as a potential 5th column and purging them first. Granted, that would require a bunch of assumptions for that same scenario to play out again, but I still think it is a trap they could fall into nevertheless.

 

[zap2theextreme]

I've been a patient in US healthcare system and also in USSR. Trust me, be glad that you can do what you do. He would be long dead in USSR, as no medication, doctors or supplies were in abundance and any decent medical help required astronomical bribes (as Brezhnev famously said: "good doctor will never go hungry") to get anything done.

As much as the insurance and networks nightmare suck in US, I'm fucking soooo glad, that I can see a specialist without shoving bills into his assistant's pockets and I know that they can fetch pretty much any meds in existance, i.e. there is no shortage of Aspirin or other basic shit.

If it makes you feel any better, in some remote parts of Russia outside of Moscow and St. Pete's, hospitals wash used bandages to recycle them on other patients. Think about that.

The USSR existed over 30 years ago. It's 2019 and I live in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world and yet I have to beg for my father's life. I have to pay exorbitant medication prices that are essentially extortion. All while America fights a never-ending series of fool hardy regime change wars, causing untold numbers of atrocities, to the tune of $700 billion dollars. The same socialized medicine that everyone wants to implement in America has existed in countries like Canada, Australia, and the whole of Scandinavia for decades. The current system is incredibly cruel and broken so the talking point that it's just not viable, nothing can ever get better, and we have to sit and suffer isn't going to cut it. The only thing standing in the way are the insurance companies and the corrupt politicians that lobby to protect their corporate interests because the industry makes billions of dollars by making Americans choose between their lives, the lives of their loved ones, and complete and total financial ruin.

vote Bernie Sanders you worms

 

[Tasty Tatty]

The "friends" questions was moronic. I guess they meant to appeal the common voter who has friends from every point of the political spectrum, and yet, they all failed. The correct answer is "I can't name one because I have different friends from all sides as their political preferences dont' define our friendship".

What a sanctimonious son of a bitch. How smug can you get?

He's right, and yet, he actually had the chance to say this on stage live.

 

[Product Intervention]

The USSR existed over 30 years ago. It's 2019 and I live in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world and yet I have to beg for my father's life. I have to pay exorbitant medication prices that are essentially extortion. All while America fights a never-ending series of fool hardy regime change wars, causing untold numbers of atrocities, to the tune of $700 billion dollars. The same socialized medicine that everyone wants to implement in America has existed in countries like Canada, Australia, and the whole of Scandinavia for decades. The current system is incredibly cruel and broken so the talking point that it's just not viable, nothing can ever get better, and we have to sit and suffer isn't going to cut it. The only thing standing in the way are the insurance companies and the corrupt politicians that lobby to protect their corporate interests because the industry makes billions of dollars by making Americans choose between their lives, the lives of their loved ones, and complete and total financial ruin.

vote Bernie Sanders you worms

You sound tense.

Don't make any decisions for yourself or others while in this state.

 

[breadandcircuses]

The USSR existed over 30 years ago. It's 2019 and I live in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world and yet I have to beg for my father's life. I have to pay exorbitant medication prices that are essentially extortion. All while America fights a never-ending series of fool hardy regime change wars, causing untold numbers of atrocities, to the tune of $700 billion dollars. The same socialized medicine that everyone wants to implement in America has existed in countries like Canada, Australia, and the whole of Scandinavia for decades. The current system is incredibly cruel and broken so the talking point that it's just not viable, nothing can ever get better, and we have to sit and suffer isn't going to cut it. The only thing standing in the way are the insurance companies and the corrupt politicians that lobby to protect their corporate interests because the industry makes billions of dollars by making Americans choose between their lives, the lives of their loved ones, and complete and total financial ruin.

vote Bernie Sanders you worms

Every canadian I know hates their health care system. There's waiting lists and lines and all kinds of stupid bullshit they don't want to put up with, so they go to the US instead.

 

[zap2theextreme]

Every canadian I know hates their health care system. There's waiting lists and lines and all kinds of stupid bullshit they don't want to put up with, so they go to the US instead.

lmao Americans traveling to Canada for cheaper medication is a tale as old as time until we literally made it illegal to do

 

[breadandcircuses]

lmao Americans traveling to Canada for cheaper medication is a tale as old as time until we literally made it illegal to do

Sure, the meds are cheaper, but good luck seeing a doctor.

 

[Absolutego]

The only thing standing in the way are the insurance companies and the corrupt politicians that lobby to protect their corporate interests because the industry makes billions of dollars by making Americans choose between their lives, the lives of their loved ones, and complete and total financial ruin.

Obviously the solution is to invite those corrupt politicians on the insurance industry's dole to personally manage our healthcare, that totally worked out with Obamacare...