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- Oct 29, 2019
I just watched the show highlights and that was fucking cringe. What the fuck were they thinking?
Formula 1 Discussion - And favourite driver?
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- Mar 31, 2020
Reminds me of what I read about Nascar drivers back in the 60's. They also created driving suits that had "cooling water" run through them because drivers would actually faint from the heat. But is that really necessary? Where do we actually have hot races besides Quatar? You could make them mandatory for races with high temperatures but I doubt they would actually be a good idea in rain races
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2022
Singapore and Quatar are both examples of notoriously hot races which will keep appearing on the racing calendar for a while. I think drivers not fainting from heat at 250+ km/h is actually a good thing so this will be a positive change for the drivers.
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- Aug 28, 2015
Cool suits usually have either a significant reservoir with ice/dry ice in it, or just a straight up refrigeration system.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
It's a matter of having one more safety factor so people don't end up getting heatstroke while behind a safety car or something. That said, I would assume that this is a far lighter and sophisticated solution for this problem than past proposals.
Singapore has the extra hazard of also being very humid so that really tests everyone's tolerance for swamp ass weather.
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- Joined
- Aug 28, 2015
I sort of don't give a shit at this point. Every major series should make them mandatory. It's ALWAYS hot in a race car. If you say 'well, run it or run a bunch more ballast' everyone will select the ballast because you get to put ballast low down and wherever helps balance your car best.
The biggest criticism at this point is that when a cool suit system breaks, it's way worse than not having one at all.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
Personally, I'd mandate the necessary equipment to run the suit being in the car if needed but leave the cooling suit issue up to the driver. People have differing tolerances to heat. Of course, this also needs to be tested on a live track in case unforeseen issues pop up with them.
WatterBottle
kiwifarms.net
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- Apr 9, 2024
Another reason for closed cockpits like lemans series where they mandated air condition and monitoring of cabin temps
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2020
Cooling suits have been used in V8 Supercars for at least a decade, which makes sense given that the races are either quite long (like the Bathurst 1000) or are held in stinking hot places like Adelaide and Darwin.
Here are a couple of articles from 2013 explaining what they are, how they work and why they are used.
Drivers Keeping Cool: What's a Cool Suit? (A)
Drivers Keeping Cool, Part Two (A)
On a related note, I'd completely forgotten that there was a V8 Supercar race held in Austin in 2013.
Here are a couple of articles from 2013 explaining what they are, how they work and why they are used.
Drivers Keeping Cool: What's a Cool Suit? (A)
What is a cool suit exactly? How does it work and how does it help the driver over the weekend?
FPR’s crew chief for cars 18 and 55 Matthew Roberts gave v8supercars.com.au the details.
Roberts said the cool suit was effectively an internal radiator.
“We’ve got two little elements in the bottom of a carbon box and it runs it’s own separate water system,” he explained.
“We’ve got a water reservoir and a tiny electric pump – like a pool pump – that circulates water.
“Once the reservoir is full of water, we fill the box with dry ice.”
This happens before the race – the team fills the carbon box with the dry ice element, turns on the pump and that pumps water around the system.
“The driver wears the suit – which you often see on the podium – and that’s got what adds up to about five or six metres (16-20ft) worth of tiny tubes, sewn into the upper part of the fireproof underwear.
“Tiny capillaries go all over the body,d own to just above the groin and there’s a series of loops around the chest, heart, up and around the lower part of the neck, and they stop at the bicep. These tubes carry the ice cold water.”
With a range of sensors, the team can monitor how hot or cold the system is running.
It needs to be running at approximately four degrees Celsius for the driver to feel the effect.
With such high cabin temperatures – in Texas, it was around 50-60 degrees C (120-140F) – it is crucial to have the cooling elements right. If there isn’t enough water or surface area in the elements, the water can freeze, which is detrimental to the cooling efficiency of the system.
“It’s a really fine line – every time you put the ice in you cringe and hope it doesn’t freeze,” Roberts said.
That’s often what has happened when you hear the cool suit has failed – there’s an imbalance, which could be caused by something as simple as the seat belt harness pinching one of the tubes and restricting flow. The driver will then have lukewarm water surrounding his body.
Unless there’s an issue, other than having to put the dry ice in, it’s a maintenance-free system.
“We’ve got a shutter drop in the bottom of the carbon box – we can shut the dry ice off from the elements to prevent freezing, that’s how we regulate our temperature. Nine times out of 10 we don’t touch it,” Roberts said.
“After the race we quickly plug in– it’s 10 to 15 seconds before it’ll freeze once the system stops, so you have to be really quick.”
And it’s not just the hot events like Austin and Darwin where the cool suit is important – it is run at every event, because despite the outside temperature, the heat soars inside the cabin and the driver is physically working hard every lap.
But as we saw in qualifying in Austin– when Jamie Whincup opened his door for a refresher during the session– not all drivers use the cool suit during qualifying.
“At the hotter events it’s a little different,” Roberts said.
“Some drivers prefer to be cool and calm in qualifying and some people – like Will (Davison) and Frosty (Mark Winterbottom) – brave the elements and think it will give them the edge not to carry around the extra weight.”
In total FPR’s box is around 10kg (22lbs) when it’s almost full, so it’s an extra weight penalty during the session.
“Every bit of weight is a half-tenth or extra tenth, so we try to reduce weight as much as we can, where we can.
“Dave Reynolds like his (cool suit for) all the sessions and Alex (Davison), but Mark and Will are probably a bit harder and like to have that less weight.”
In the past five to six years, Roberts said they had taken the cool suit out only a handful of times – and each time the driver wanted it back in.
FPR’s crew chief for cars 18 and 55 Matthew Roberts gave v8supercars.com.au the details.
Roberts said the cool suit was effectively an internal radiator.
“We’ve got two little elements in the bottom of a carbon box and it runs it’s own separate water system,” he explained.
“We’ve got a water reservoir and a tiny electric pump – like a pool pump – that circulates water.
“Once the reservoir is full of water, we fill the box with dry ice.”
This happens before the race – the team fills the carbon box with the dry ice element, turns on the pump and that pumps water around the system.
“The driver wears the suit – which you often see on the podium – and that’s got what adds up to about five or six metres (16-20ft) worth of tiny tubes, sewn into the upper part of the fireproof underwear.
“Tiny capillaries go all over the body,d own to just above the groin and there’s a series of loops around the chest, heart, up and around the lower part of the neck, and they stop at the bicep. These tubes carry the ice cold water.”
With a range of sensors, the team can monitor how hot or cold the system is running.
It needs to be running at approximately four degrees Celsius for the driver to feel the effect.
With such high cabin temperatures – in Texas, it was around 50-60 degrees C (120-140F) – it is crucial to have the cooling elements right. If there isn’t enough water or surface area in the elements, the water can freeze, which is detrimental to the cooling efficiency of the system.
“It’s a really fine line – every time you put the ice in you cringe and hope it doesn’t freeze,” Roberts said.
That’s often what has happened when you hear the cool suit has failed – there’s an imbalance, which could be caused by something as simple as the seat belt harness pinching one of the tubes and restricting flow. The driver will then have lukewarm water surrounding his body.
Unless there’s an issue, other than having to put the dry ice in, it’s a maintenance-free system.
“We’ve got a shutter drop in the bottom of the carbon box – we can shut the dry ice off from the elements to prevent freezing, that’s how we regulate our temperature. Nine times out of 10 we don’t touch it,” Roberts said.
“After the race we quickly plug in– it’s 10 to 15 seconds before it’ll freeze once the system stops, so you have to be really quick.”
And it’s not just the hot events like Austin and Darwin where the cool suit is important – it is run at every event, because despite the outside temperature, the heat soars inside the cabin and the driver is physically working hard every lap.
But as we saw in qualifying in Austin– when Jamie Whincup opened his door for a refresher during the session– not all drivers use the cool suit during qualifying.
“At the hotter events it’s a little different,” Roberts said.
“Some drivers prefer to be cool and calm in qualifying and some people – like Will (Davison) and Frosty (Mark Winterbottom) – brave the elements and think it will give them the edge not to carry around the extra weight.”
In total FPR’s box is around 10kg (22lbs) when it’s almost full, so it’s an extra weight penalty during the session.
“Every bit of weight is a half-tenth or extra tenth, so we try to reduce weight as much as we can, where we can.
“Dave Reynolds like his (cool suit for) all the sessions and Alex (Davison), but Mark and Will are probably a bit harder and like to have that less weight.”
In the past five to six years, Roberts said they had taken the cool suit out only a handful of times – and each time the driver wanted it back in.
Drivers Keeping Cool, Part Two (A)
Following on from yesterday’s story "What is a Cool Suit", which explained the technical side of the cool suit, v8supercars.com.au spoke to Ford Performance Racing’s Human Performance Manager Glenn Lindsay who is responsible for the physical wellbeing of drivers and team members over a race weekend.
Lindsay – who has a background as a physiotherapist and started working in racing with Formula One years ago– has been with FPR eight seasons.
“I’m looking after their physical wellbeing– their hydration, making sure they’ve had enough to eat, all those little things,” he said.
“Effectively I’m the team physio, but the role is a little broader than that.”
Lindsay describes the drivers’ situation in the car as, basically, working in an oven.
With temperatures in the cabin elevated around 30 degrees Celcius (86F) above ambient temperature; drivers geared up with fireproof underwear, race suits, helmets, gloves and so on; and little ventilation in the vehicle; Lindsay believes heat is the biggest challenge faced on a race weekend.
That physical impact was illustrated in Texas when both Will and Alex Davison had cool suit failures, and there was a problem with Will’s drinking system.
“The biggest problem for a V8 Supercar driver is the heat, because normally what the human body is trying to do is keep body temperature around 37degC (98.6F)” Lindsay said.
When the temperature is beyond 37degC (98.6F) the body will sweat, which creates the problem of dehydration. And because the driver is covered in race gear, it’s difficult for the body to get rid of that fluid.
This is where the cool suit comes in. And while Lindsay says it is still “far from comfortable” for the drivers – it certainly helps.
“Basically it’s circulating water and transfers the heat from the body significantly faster than cool air – it’s more efficient.”
Lindsay explained as the body got hotter,it diverted blood to the skin surface (which is why you go red when you exercise). The skin surface dilates and attempts to transfer heat outside the body.
“So basically the body diverts blood from the vital organs – including the brain – and there’s a physical performance deficit. The body is trying to operate in the heat, but the blood s shunted away from the brain, so there are psychomotor and mental deficits.
“For a racing driver that’s life threatening.”
Body temperatures between 37 (98.6F) and 40.5deg C (104.9F) could mean muscle cramps, fatigue, dizziness, slower reflexes and impaired vision, concentration, focus and decision-making. Elevated to 40.5degC (104.9F), it’s life threatening.
Drivers can also come close to collapsing when getting out of the car because of blood pooling in the legs.
“It’s a common thing to see in V8 Supercars– I saw that personally in Texas, I had to help Alex (Davison) out of the car.
“The drivers are working physically a lot harder than you’d assume… it’s an incredibly hostile environment.”
Lindsay also ensures the drivers are drinking the right things to help retain water.
After a race, particularly if there are issues with the cool suit, it is important to get the drivers’ core temperature down as quickly as possible. From ice emersion baths, cold towels and passive cooling via ice vests (which are used before and after races) at hot races, to cool drinks – some teams even use slushies, so drivers are ingesting cold fluid – whatever it takes.
“At a race meeting these days teams have ice baths, but you can’t run them too cold – we can’t have them as cold as footy teams because the transition from 55degC (131F) to just about freezing is far too great.
“We get the body temperature down as quickly as possible and the fluids up. They’re sweating so much, bodies require a lot of replacement fluid as well.”
Lindsay said over the years certain drivers had blown him away with their ability to cope with heat.
“That’s the thing – these guys are so good they make it look simple. If you or I tried to do it, we’d probably look a bit ordinary!
“Now, the cool suit is so vital – you can’t get away with a slight loss in performance. You’re shown up massively if your team is not running it and another team is.”
Lindsay – who has a background as a physiotherapist and started working in racing with Formula One years ago– has been with FPR eight seasons.
“I’m looking after their physical wellbeing– their hydration, making sure they’ve had enough to eat, all those little things,” he said.
“Effectively I’m the team physio, but the role is a little broader than that.”
Lindsay describes the drivers’ situation in the car as, basically, working in an oven.
With temperatures in the cabin elevated around 30 degrees Celcius (86F) above ambient temperature; drivers geared up with fireproof underwear, race suits, helmets, gloves and so on; and little ventilation in the vehicle; Lindsay believes heat is the biggest challenge faced on a race weekend.
That physical impact was illustrated in Texas when both Will and Alex Davison had cool suit failures, and there was a problem with Will’s drinking system.
“The biggest problem for a V8 Supercar driver is the heat, because normally what the human body is trying to do is keep body temperature around 37degC (98.6F)” Lindsay said.
When the temperature is beyond 37degC (98.6F) the body will sweat, which creates the problem of dehydration. And because the driver is covered in race gear, it’s difficult for the body to get rid of that fluid.
This is where the cool suit comes in. And while Lindsay says it is still “far from comfortable” for the drivers – it certainly helps.
“Basically it’s circulating water and transfers the heat from the body significantly faster than cool air – it’s more efficient.”
Lindsay explained as the body got hotter,it diverted blood to the skin surface (which is why you go red when you exercise). The skin surface dilates and attempts to transfer heat outside the body.
“So basically the body diverts blood from the vital organs – including the brain – and there’s a physical performance deficit. The body is trying to operate in the heat, but the blood s shunted away from the brain, so there are psychomotor and mental deficits.
“For a racing driver that’s life threatening.”
Body temperatures between 37 (98.6F) and 40.5deg C (104.9F) could mean muscle cramps, fatigue, dizziness, slower reflexes and impaired vision, concentration, focus and decision-making. Elevated to 40.5degC (104.9F), it’s life threatening.
Drivers can also come close to collapsing when getting out of the car because of blood pooling in the legs.
“It’s a common thing to see in V8 Supercars– I saw that personally in Texas, I had to help Alex (Davison) out of the car.
“The drivers are working physically a lot harder than you’d assume… it’s an incredibly hostile environment.”
Lindsay also ensures the drivers are drinking the right things to help retain water.
After a race, particularly if there are issues with the cool suit, it is important to get the drivers’ core temperature down as quickly as possible. From ice emersion baths, cold towels and passive cooling via ice vests (which are used before and after races) at hot races, to cool drinks – some teams even use slushies, so drivers are ingesting cold fluid – whatever it takes.
“At a race meeting these days teams have ice baths, but you can’t run them too cold – we can’t have them as cold as footy teams because the transition from 55degC (131F) to just about freezing is far too great.
“We get the body temperature down as quickly as possible and the fluids up. They’re sweating so much, bodies require a lot of replacement fluid as well.”
Lindsay said over the years certain drivers had blown him away with their ability to cope with heat.
“That’s the thing – these guys are so good they make it look simple. If you or I tried to do it, we’d probably look a bit ordinary!
“Now, the cool suit is so vital – you can’t get away with a slight loss in performance. You’re shown up massively if your team is not running it and another team is.”
On a related note, I'd completely forgotten that there was a V8 Supercar race held in Austin in 2013.
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- Joined
- Jul 3, 2021
I am against the cooling suits. Scale the engine output down or race in cooler weather if it’s a problem.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2022
I have mixed feelings on this. The kid hasn't done anything awful himself other than get rushed up and have an entire media industry crowing about him, and if he fails, it'll make TeamLH insufferable. But on the other hand, I really want that smug bastard Toto Wolff to eat shit.
I’m a Paul Aron guy so Toto failing after screwing Paul over wouid be hilarious
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2020
I think I can deal with a smug Toto if it makes teamLH seethe.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2022
If Colapinto fails after Jack Doohan inevitably gets sent to WEC purgatory, Aron gets the Alpine seat and he succeeds while Antonelli flounders at Mercedes would be the objectively most hilarious timeline.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2017
I think:
Kimi is in for a bad time because it's too early and he won't live up to the hype. Needed another season in F2.
Doohan is fucked and Colapinto will be in there as soon as they can make it work. They didn't pay a reported €20 million to buy his Williams contract out for him to sit and watch a guy who has been average at best through all the junior series drive.
Bearman will show himself to be bang average, he's OK but not superstar material. The tongue bathing he got from the (British) media over finishing 7th in a car that was easily 2nd fastest that weekend averaging 0.5s a lap slower than his team mate was a bit much. He did OK.
Hadjar could go either way but I don't think he'll be getting dumped out, for some reason he's a favourite of Marko and if he does well (and Lawson doesn't) may end up swapping with Lawson because of it.
Lawson will drown compared to Max but will be doing more of a Gasley than a Perez level of drowning. It may see him keep the seat through to 2026, but Red Bull management isn’t forgiving and Lawson isn't bringing Perez levels of money.
Bortoleto will probably do well, he's in a dog of a car so they won't have unrealistic expectations on him. Hulk is fast so if he can get anywhere close it'll be job done. Plus he had Alonso involved in his management so has one hell of a mentor.
In non-rookie predictions
I think we could see a real falling out (and toxic social media war) at Ferrari. Hambone hasn't had a team mate to really fight him since Rossberg made him cry in 2016, it will be the same levels of accusing Ferrari of screwing bloois to avoid the conclusion he's washed. Russell is not that special but he had Lewlews number as his team mate, Leclerc will eat him alive.
I expect (hope) Oscar will get closer to Norris and up his tyre game.
I expect Max to pick up some wins and good results but not the championship. That McLaren was so much faster in the latter half of 2024 and the cars won't be changing much.
It might be the season we finally see daddy stroll shuffle little Lance towards the hyprecar and get Tsunoda for 2026 to go with the Honda engines. Plus Tsunoda has got to be wanting an out after being passed up for that RBR seat.
I genuinely don't know what to expect at Williams. Albon has been dragging good results out of what people believe is a poor car, but with Lattifi and Sargeant as team mates who knows if that's true or if they just showed Albon in a good light. Either Sainz will show him up badly and it'll derail his career again, or they'll be close and it'll show he's got it.
Championships
WCC McLaren
WDC I want Oscar but probably Norris (who will be impossible to like by the end of the year because of Crofty and Ted).
Kimi is in for a bad time because it's too early and he won't live up to the hype. Needed another season in F2.
Doohan is fucked and Colapinto will be in there as soon as they can make it work. They didn't pay a reported €20 million to buy his Williams contract out for him to sit and watch a guy who has been average at best through all the junior series drive.
Bearman will show himself to be bang average, he's OK but not superstar material. The tongue bathing he got from the (British) media over finishing 7th in a car that was easily 2nd fastest that weekend averaging 0.5s a lap slower than his team mate was a bit much. He did OK.
Hadjar could go either way but I don't think he'll be getting dumped out, for some reason he's a favourite of Marko and if he does well (and Lawson doesn't) may end up swapping with Lawson because of it.
Lawson will drown compared to Max but will be doing more of a Gasley than a Perez level of drowning. It may see him keep the seat through to 2026, but Red Bull management isn’t forgiving and Lawson isn't bringing Perez levels of money.
Bortoleto will probably do well, he's in a dog of a car so they won't have unrealistic expectations on him. Hulk is fast so if he can get anywhere close it'll be job done. Plus he had Alonso involved in his management so has one hell of a mentor.
In non-rookie predictions
I think we could see a real falling out (and toxic social media war) at Ferrari. Hambone hasn't had a team mate to really fight him since Rossberg made him cry in 2016, it will be the same levels of accusing Ferrari of screwing bloois to avoid the conclusion he's washed. Russell is not that special but he had Lewlews number as his team mate, Leclerc will eat him alive.
I expect (hope) Oscar will get closer to Norris and up his tyre game.
I expect Max to pick up some wins and good results but not the championship. That McLaren was so much faster in the latter half of 2024 and the cars won't be changing much.
It might be the season we finally see daddy stroll shuffle little Lance towards the hyprecar and get Tsunoda for 2026 to go with the Honda engines. Plus Tsunoda has got to be wanting an out after being passed up for that RBR seat.
I genuinely don't know what to expect at Williams. Albon has been dragging good results out of what people believe is a poor car, but with Lattifi and Sargeant as team mates who knows if that's true or if they just showed Albon in a good light. Either Sainz will show him up badly and it'll derail his career again, or they'll be close and it'll show he's got it.
Championships
WCC McLaren
WDC I want Oscar but probably Norris (who will be impossible to like by the end of the year because of Crofty and Ted).
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- Joined
- Feb 25, 2015
The thing about Hadjar, or even Yuki, is that the new young hotshot for RB coming up rapidly, Arvid Lindblad, could easily get slotted in. I was watching the down under Formula Oceanic or whatever it is called now the last few weekends and he dominated that championship. 11 Top 3s in 15 races. And by winning the title he now has enough points to race in F1. Now.
He is racing in F2 this year and he was fastest today in testing. So, by all accounts, while only 17, he is the next big thing potentially and many are saying he will get the fast track to F! by RB if either of the 2 in the junior team suck. I also think he is a golden boy for Marko, much like Max was. We shall see, but if Hadjar/Yuki don't do well and/or Lindblad does well in F2, it's possible we may get 2 driver switches before end of year, with of course Doohan being the other.
As for Stroll, LOL, man you know he is going to be driving until his dad buys him dat title! Now that they have Newey I don't see Lance leaving anytime soon as with the new regs and Newey on scene, arguably it will be his best chance to be gifted a title. Alonso can't drive forever so he will be gone before Lance. Lance could kill 3 drivers on track and 50 people in the stands and he'd still keep his fucking seat.
Testing begins Wednesday! Might watch the replays since it starts around 3AM my time.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2020
There's more chance of Alonso leaving AM's F1 team than there is of Stroll the Younger being punted off to an AM WEC or Formula E team... and when Alonso does leave, I wouldn't be surprised if Stroll the Elder throws Checo a lifeline. After all, it'd be weird if Lance's babysitter is younger than he is.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2015
Yeah Mr. Magoo isn't going anywhere. He will stay at AM (no other team would take him-unless dad pays them bags of cash) as the whole plan since they bought AM is for Jr. to win the title.
I pray, even being a Canadian and thirsting for title glory that Jacques last gave me nearly 3 decades ago now, that he NEVER wins a race, let alone a title. Its a disgrace that this guy, who is obviously now (maybe he was a little when he first came in to F1) not someone who should be in F1, is sitting there not only taking a seat from another worthwhile driver, but potentially could gain a win or a title all because of the money his father has. Nepotism at its absolute when it comes to the Strolls!
As for a teammate when Alonso leaves, with them taking Honda, you'd assume it might be Yuki or another Jap. But wouldn't it be fucking amusing if some younger driver comes in too and wipes the floor with Stroll. Won't make a difference as Stroll won't be yeeted unless he pisses dad off or something, but it would be hella funny if AM does become a Top 3-4-5 team and Lance still sucks even with a Newey race-winning machine under him but his teammate bags a win or two. If, and big IF, AM somehow becomes a top 2 team (other 4 teams currently occupying the best of F1 would have to falter hard) and is in with a shout of wins or titles, I could see the 2nd driver being told to let Lance by as much as possible. That would really put F1 in a great light now wouldn't it?
I am waiting for the coon to finally fuck off somewhere, but I want Lance to go just as badly and as soon as possible too.
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